₦airaland Forum

Your explanations as usual are not acceptable. They do not make spiritual sense. If the black stone is as small as a brick block and built into the wall of Kaaba, why is it particularly recorgnized differently from other blocks? It means it was built-in there for a purpose. Why was a 'black' stone built among brick blocks?

It shows Kaaba was purposely built with idol worshiping in mind as the black stone was a part of the building. About 360 other idols came in later because the building was made for idol worshiping.

When kissing the black stone they wear special type of garment (like in cult) with their heads cleanly shaven and move round the Kaaba building where the black stone is. What do you call that? Worshiping God?

An idol needs not be big like a whole house, it could even be smaller than a brick block. Here I rest my case.

Sweetnecta: ^^^ the one who thinks he is free of satan may actually be the secured follower of satan.

Alhamdulillah, we curse satan daily. That tells everyone including the jinn, satan himself we are his enemies.

From the pages of the Bibles, satan took the son of man, Jesus through many things; including carrying him, etc as they say.

can anyone who says he follows the Biblical Jesus not expect that satan is carrying him/her? If they think they are immune, then they are already taken.
You can't be more secure than you master in the Bibles. If he was carried, you must have been roped in.


I will now respond to some of the proposals above.

You people surprise me a lot. Did you read the thread at all? You decided to say irrelevancies as usual because that is what you people do whenever you don't have defence.

How did your response address the facts that idolatery is incorporated into Islam making the religion idol worshiping?

You are expected to address the issue raised and stop talking about something else. This thread is already in google and what you say will go a long way in portraying Islam even to the whole Islamic world. So mind what you say. Search 'what hanifans worship'

This Jesus you talk carelessly about is what your Qur'an call 'faultless (Qur'an 19:19). This means even Satan cannot dispute the integrity of Jesus.

Qur'an 3:45 says Jesus is illustrious in the world and the Hereafter AND ONE OF THOSE BROUGHT NEAR UNTO ALLAH. Therefore any muslim who abuses Jesus does not know the Qur'an.

Where are the muslims in nairaland? No comment?

I once heard a muslim say ''but we curse satan and throw stone at him in Mecca''. This is very laughable. Satan has already been cursed by God, He knows that human cursing does not change anything and that is why he permits you to curse him. Throwing stones at him is absolute nonsense, meaningless as he is not stationary to be stoned every year.

The Qur'an permits you to curse and throw stones at satan to make you believe you are against him. Imagine if the Qur'an had said ''honour satan, praise him'', would everybody not have known he is in-charge?

Satan is businesslike, well focused and his ultimate goal is to carry, if possible the whole human race to hell fire with him. He knows your cursing him does not change his position. All he wants is to get you doing his biddings, knowingly or ignorantly.

Satan is a very wise spirit. So wise that he convinced and converted one-third of the angels in heaven to his side. These former angels are now called demons.

If he could convince angels, how much more man. It requires God's revelation for human beings to detect him. Praying for God's revelation to you.

Sweetnecta: @Truthman2012: Alhadulillah that there is no place in the verse or the Quran that says he and his followers [the muslims under Muhammad [sa]] will be punished and or go to hell fire for not following anyone else, for not worshiping God in Trinity, for following Muhammad [sa], for accepting the Quran, for saying that the present OT of the ews and NT of the christians are corrupted while believing for themselves that God revealed the Taurah originally to Moses [as] and Injil to Jesus son of Mary [as].

Allah says in surah azhab verse 1: Oh Prophet [sa] have conscious/piety/fear of God. Shall we say by reading this that Muhammad [sa] the messenger who didn't hide this statement or considered it as chastising him does not have consciousness, piety and or fear of God? Heck. He is the most pious, most conscious and the person that most fear God. The knowledge from this type of verses is that no one in the community should be proud that their deeds and belief will take them to Paradise except that the Mercy of God is over all that man have sent forward in good deeds and sincere faith. To be sincerely faithful in God includes not being self assured, but to in spite of all have hope in God and be humble that all all decisions is with God. I can give you verses where God says Muhammad [sa] is the best examples to be followed, the Messengers of God that previous prophets would have to support if he has arrived on earth while they themselves were on earth [to mean none of them before him knew when he would arrive [maybe the reason Jesus promised the another comforter [human not yet born is a spirit, being an existence in spiritual realm] to his disciples with vivid description of duties], Muhammad the messenger to all mankind, kind and merciful to believers. But the greatest set of verses that should wipe out your concern is that God said that Islam is the religion God chose for mankind and no other way of faith of worship is acceptable and finally said He has completed the religion of Islam upon the prophetic office of Muhammad [sa]. I do not see how Muhammad [sa] will therefore not be the first of the successful with all the verses of paradise in the Quran, only a naive soul will think the Islamic paradise is meant for others but Muslims.



Is Gabriel [as] in control of Muhammad [sa] or Allah is in control of both of them and all of us? This very verse and many which you may use to steer people from truth are in themselves indicators of the truthfulness of Muhammad [sa]. If Muhammad [sa] was the author and not the final mouth piece, would it at been normal for anyone to criticize himself when what he is critiquing himself openly about no one sees it?

Now about Gabriel: Allah sends Gabriel as messenger. Proof that Authority lies with Allah 100% is Giabrel saying: And we [Him as the Ruuh qudus and any angel including angel of death [malaika maut]] do not come except by "PERMISSION" of God.



I am the owner of a company and from the manual of employment, everyone knows what to expect based on their responsibility, etc. At the end of the fiscal year I gave a bonus as expected. The following year, I told the general manager to encourage the best division but to tell the division manager to tell everyone that he himself will not know what I will do at the end of the year regarding bonus. Does this mean that I will not give them bonuses if they work as hard as expected and even we make less profit, in the face of global recession or huge profit or same as last year if there was no national recession? The condition of the future is with the one that has authority over it, including even we take this to the family unit. Whether the daughter goes to UI or American University depends on how father by his financial willingness is. Allah has forbidden for Himself injustice, so it is a means for all of the believers to realize that the Grace of Allah is The Answer for Success.



The same Gabriel brought verses about cursing satan. Does it make sense for satan to bring about verse to curse satan? Do you know how many times a muslim says curse to satan the accursed everyday with 1.5 B muslims on earth? If the make no extra prayers, it will at least 12 or more times in salah. If they yawn, wants to enter the bathroom, wants to read the Quran, if they are avoiding temptation; in each case they curse satan. It is an empty attempt from you to say Muslims have anything to do with satan the accursed. Satan gets the ones who think they have him beat. We in Islam seek Protection of God against satan because of our "own power [it will be arrogant for man to think he has power, Jesus son of Mary, a man approved by God sure didnt have power of his own to do anything]" can overcome satan.


I hope that you will remember the bold when we talk about what comes below. Was Muhammad [sa] punished? Was Moses punished by being made to appear before his greatest nemesis, pharaoh? Moses that could not speak was made an orator before pharaoh and his court, including the magician, later in leading the children of Israel for almost all of the 40 years in the "wilderness". Was Jesus son of Mary punished by God or the holy ghost who was sent to support him as he was made to appear before the roman leader?



I was going to use the bold in the previous, but when I saw what Allah has done by forcing your mind and finger to type the bold here, i just need to ask you what do you think was the condition of Jesus regarding the sins others committed, either "the original sin" and or the "sin[s] of individuals"? Pay attention to the bold here. Did Yahweh punish Jesus for something that is not his fault, which is the sin of Adam and Eve and or the sins of individual Jews, Christians, never mind about the muslmis because we will stick with Mercy from Allah, Alone in the way of Muhammad [sa]?



We have 1 Angel Gabriel and he was not inconsistent because you will have no proof from old testament in your Bibles which you can transfer to new testament to say that Jews whom Jesus was sent, never mind the believers among mankind [Adam [as] and his mate Eve, Enoch, etc, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, etc, etc Zachariah, his son John and even Jesus [as] say that God has an exclusive son. Jesus himself says he is son of man, his mother is fro mankind who had parents, etc. Jesus is referred as a "man" approved by God. Jesus of the "cross" says "My God, my God. . ." which gives us complete confirmation that he didnt mean to say my father. The Name of the God of Jesus is Ellah from the lips of Jesus. Not I AM, Yahweh, Jehovah, but Ellah accented Allah of Arabiya.

If you say you find in the Bibles Jesus is written as son of God, i will simply tell you for a fact that God is not a man to have a man child. God is not replaceable to have what will replace Him. And if you talk about Emmanuel, you are well aware that Jesus was never called that, and Gabriel, Ishmael and Israel each being called by his name with El clearly does not mean and none claim to be God, or God son or partner.



No prophet before Jesus, including John his contemporary and cousin was told that God has an exclusive son. The same Gabriel came to each and delivered God is 1 and He is not like anything you can completely describe. He is complete and there is no "literal" child coming from Him. He does not need to be a "literal" father to a "begotten" literal or otherwise son. I guess the sincerity of the scripture writers must have changed between OT and NT.



From the OT we read a Gabriel. Then in NT we see an emerged another Gabriel that they said spoke about son of God, literally. I think the writers are giving us 2 Gabriels. But now that there is an adulteration somewhere and we can clearly see it from the so called "word" inspired, wherein the opinions of "Paul" is not opinion but still "God inspired" This verse: Oh Israel, your God is my God and He is One Lord. That's what Jesus said. I agree with this verse because it shows that there is 1 Gabriel and whatever says God has a son is slip of the pen of man. God can not now father a human being when He does not father the angels who are more superior than man; the angels do not eat, nor fatigue needing to refresh. God gives them Power and Ability to fulfill their duties to Him, even descending from heavens in an instant, faster than an eye blink. Humans produce humans. God creates humans.



There were not two Gabriels, except that the writer of the NT on this matter invented a verse and say it is from God. Why would God need a human son, if I may ask you? I want you to think about it for a long time to arrive at the completely spiritually logical conclusion. There is God. Does He have to have a son at the middle of mankind time on earth? If there was a need to sacrifice somebody so much as a son for the sins of Adam [as] and his mate for eating a fruit and forbidden that fruits for him and his wife or even 2 different kinds of fruits or even fruits in general, even to the children who didnt "commit" this sin, and or the individual sins of man than the sacrifice will be washing away, the logical thing that could happen is to either have that sacrifice along at the time of the sins of Adam and his wife or at the end of the last sin to be committed by the last man or one sacrifice at time of Adam and another at the time of the last man. Anything in the middle makes no lick of sense. And it is the middle you guys proposed wherein a man was dragged by his people he was sent. Remember he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Neither you nor I is from the house of Israel or its lost sheep.



Who warned people and what authority does he have to warn? Was God the One Who warned or was it the Prophet of God that made this warning? Gospel of Jesus is about Jesus or what Jesus brought from God? Could you show me the Gospel of Jesus, anywhere and while you at it show me what the Another Comforter heard from God that he spoke to the disciples of Jesus, the same Jesus who was to comeback before all the 12 disciples perished? You are still expecting Jesus to come back for the first time since 2,000 years, or has he returned and you are expecting him to come again when he only promised he will return just once, towards the end?


Quran, am sorry to disappoint you is not "Gospel".

Since u dont agree with me on this, as a knowledgeable muslim, go and reply the thread titled 'Is this not reformed idol worshiping'.

That is a perfect description of that religion. The problem is that these people know the facts but they are bent to follow satan. Instead of repenting they keep defending their religion with long and boring essay containing points not acceptable to spiritually intelligent people.

They face Kaaba the direction of the house of the black stone when praying to their Allah. Because that idol (the black stone) is limited in space, i.e not everywhere, they must face its direction before it can hear them.

Anyway we will keep telling them so that they will have no excuse in the Day of Judgement. If a watchman failed to blow the trumphet when danger is coming, the blood of the victims will be required from him. But if he blew the trumphet and the people failed to heed, their blood will be required from their own hand.

maclatunji: I am not for all that. Quote the text of all the verses in one place so that there will be no ambiguity about your position. Simple task. Laughing at your lack of imagination.

Well, I am not into this argument to win a prize. Whether you believe it or not Quran has told you the position of Mohammed and those that follow him.

If you think it is good for you to be in a motor vehicle driven by a blind man, good luck to you.

If you think it makes sense to you to follow a man whose angel said his salvation and that of his followers is not guaranteed, good luck to you.

Somebody in this thread said Gabriel assured the muslims of paradise and yet he declared their salvation uncertain in 46:9. If it is the message of this inconsistent and insincere spirit you want to follow to get to paradise, good luck to you.

Sweetnecta: ^^^ If Muhammad [sa] was "coerced" by a known spirit [Angel Gabriel is who we are calling spirit here and indeed he is a spirit, "holy spirit" from the Islamic/Quranic statement], is it a bad thing?

Muhammad [sa] after clarity that he was a prophet of God, he did not need to be surprised even at anything concerning anything that is supernatural and man's sight do not commonly see.

Its a position of Honor that even the "mercy" to creation that Allah made Muhammad [sa], Angel Gabriel [as] benefits from it because Allah called him ruuh aamin.

Pressing Muhammad [sa] may have expressed importance of the mission on Muhammad [sa] because he definitely remembered that incident. A named spirit is already defined, definitely known.

We know he was no evil spirit or satan. And satan according to the Bibles lived inside Peter, made Judas betray his leader, made the leader do many things, including on a cliff/edge of a mountain, showing him the whole world, etc.

Muhammad [sa] knew Gabriel by name and he knew he was not satan.


Of course Muhammad [sa] knows where he is heading on Judgment Day. He is not arrogant to be gloating about Favor of Allah on him, instead he is contrived, humbled and glorifies Allah even more. The Quran has any many places where believers following Muhammad [sa] will enter Paradise. If the leader is not assured, how is the follower assured, as Allah has assured the followers? Muhammad [sa] gave many of his companions the good news of them entering paradise, so how is he not sure where is is going to become of him on the day of Judgment, the same person giving the honor of intercession?

That Mohammed did not know what will be done with him (Qur'an 46:9) was told him by Gabriel to tell the people. It was not Mohammed himself who decided to make the statement. So it is not a case of Mohammed being humble and not wanting puff up. By implication, Gabriel was telling Mohammed and his followers that their salvation is not guaranteed.

That the followers were assured of paradise was a contradiction. How could Gabriel tell Mohammed and his followers at one time that they did not know what will be done to them and later assured them of paradise again? This gives more room to suspect the sincerity of this Gabriel.

How are you so sure Gabriel was not satan? Mohammed was an illeterate man who could not read or write and Gabriel was aware of that fact. Why should he press him so hard to read the Quran to the extent Mohammed could not bear it? What I know for sure is that God would not command anybody to do what he is incapable of doing and punish him for his inability to do it. It is also against natural justice to force somebody to do what he is incapable of doing and punish him for something that is not his fault.

Besides, how many angel Gabriel do we have? If it is only one, he must be inconsistent and not trustworthy. Because he came to virgin Mary and told her the child she would bear would be called the Son of God (Luke 1:35). After more than 650 years later, he came and told Mohammed that Allah does not have a son. The first Gabriel must be different from the second as their messages were not the same. This is not to start argument on whether or not Jesus is a Son of God but to prove that there are two Gabriel.

There was a warning several years before the birth of Mohammed that if anybody or an angel come to preach any other gospel apart from the gospel of Christ, such person or angel should be cursed (Galatians 1:6-9). This warning and Mohammed's unjust coersion by the second Gabriel and his another gospel are enough to suspect the sender of this second Gabriel.

Apart from Quran 46:9 that said Muhammed did not know what will be done with him and his followers, also read the post submitted by LagosShia above. Read the first paragraph of the six paragraphs in bolded letters. There Mohammed was said to be pressed hard to the bossom by Gabriel on three occasions 'to read'. Pressed to the bossom means a hard press to the highest possible. Other translation said he was pressed till he could no longer bear it.

Qur'an 46:9. It is there at the beginning of the thread. And if you read all the responses to this threat you will see the places where Mohammed mentioned he was pressed thrice beyond what he could bear by Gabriel which means he was under coersion of that spirit.

Why are you saying irrelevancies? Why are you not addressing the real issue - that the Qur'an testified Mohammed did know his own fate? That a spirit forced him to be saying what he was saying. That it is not reasonable to follow a man whose fate is uncertain and he knew it.

What does the issue have to do with the number of people reading or memorizing the Qur'an? Don't you know that only a few people will get to heaven out of the whole world population? Do you know the number of people in Buddaism but doest that make the religion acceptable to God?

In the time of Noah only eight people were saved out of the whole population then. In Sodom and Gormmorah only a few were saved. In own time only a few will be saved.

If you think it does not make any sense to follow a man who declared that he did not know what will happen to him, why not change for better.

Will Mohammed not be free from your blame on the judgement day because he told you the truth that he himself was know sure of his own fate?

Must you follow Mohammed as you are not under compulsion to do so? Do you love him more than your own eternal life?

Why would you leave somebody who confidently said he is the way and follow somebody who said he was not sure of himself?

Spirituality is quite different from carnality. Somebody could be highly carnally intelligent and yet lack spiritual wisdom.

The ranking or commendation of Mohammed by these highly carnally intelligent people who lack spiritual wisdom does not make any difference. It is only a man of God that knows the mind of God.

Do the ranking and commendation of Mohammed remove the truth that he was under compultion of a spirit that would have tortured him to death if he dare refused his instructions?

Do they (the ranking and comm
endation) remove the truth that the Qur'an said Mohammed did not know what will be done with him and you?

What do peole say about a great warrior? There is no doubting the fact that Mohammed was a great man with the support of a spirit called Gabriel but great for ''Who''?

I insist that there is no wisdom in following a man who has no confidence or trust in his own action. A man whose fate is unknown.

The Qur'an (i.e spiritual) testimony about Mohammed should matter much more than what a million intelligent people say.

Why do you people think Mohammed is so great and yet he lacked confidence in himself.

Qur'an 46:9- Say: I am no new thing among the messangers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that which is inspired in me, I am but a plain warner.

All the versions or translations of the Qur'an say exactly this. How can you proudly say a man whose fate is unknown is so great?

Can't you people reason for once? Mohammed said ''he did not know what will be done with him and with you people (muslems). That means he did not have trust or confidence in ''what is inspired in him''. He had no absolute trust in the source of his revelation.

He was following Gabriel's revelation or inspiration out of compulsion otherwise he (Gabriel) would strangle him to death. On three occasions he (Gabriel) had almost killed him for failing 'to read'. He (Gabriel) pressed him so hard to the extent that he (Mohammed) could not bear it. He had no choice being a '' forced prophet'' and you say such a man is great? God will deliver you from spiritual blindness and ignorance.

Whether you people admit or not, the truth remains Mohammed was the only prophet who attempted suice as a result of seing an angel.He remains the only prophet who as a child demonstrated the trait of a demonaic.

By the way, why is he the only prophet accused of violence, terrorism, immorality, etc? Why is the only prophet many people doubt his prophethood judging by his deed?

Qur'an 46:9. All the versions of the Qur'an say the samething. They are all saying Mohammed did not know what Allah will do to him and all muslims. Why do you insist to follow a prophet who told you he was not sure of what judgement he will get? Na waa o.

dexmond: Here is the hadith, notice the bolded.


Narrated 'Aisha:

The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship (Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous...up to..... ..that which he knew not." (96.15)



Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, "O Khadija, what is wrong with me?" Then he told her everything that had happened and said, 'I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija said, 'Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good relations with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to (her cousin) Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza bin Qusai. Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father's brother, who during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the Arabic writing and used to write of the Gospels in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to him, "O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew." Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" The Prophet described whatever he had seen.



Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night). Quoted from the Sahih (authentic) Hadith (traditions) of Bukhari, [2], Volume 9, number 111

Why are you people dodging the facts in the hadith quoted above? You take the hadith that favours your argument at a time and reject the other.