₦airaland Forum

Truthonly:
Wrong ones again,

Acts 5:20
Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

I John 5:11-13
11-And this is the record, that God hath given to us[b] eternal life[/b], and this life is in his son

12-He that hath the son hath life; and he that hath not the son of God hath not life

13-These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the son of God; that ye may know that ye have Eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the son of God

Please cross check with your bible!

Truthonly:
Brethren you are so wrong in your submission. Your position that prosperity/money preaching is the hallmark and trait of a false prophet is ridiculous as this would also mean anyone who does not teach on money is a true prophet.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish ABOVE ALL THINGS that thou mayest prosper and be in health even as soul prospereth

Do a diligent study on how you may identify a false prophet, you definitely haven't done so. And may I add that in christianity we do not fight for our God, He is able to defend himself and us also.

Truthonly:
My dear brethren, I know you have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge as I can see from your submissions.

The word 'Eternal' as derived from 'Eternal life' does not start at or only mean the life after death. Eternal life is the English translation for the Greek word 'Zoe'. And Zoe refers to the life of and from God; He's likeness; He's operation nature; The way He functions. Looking unto things that are eternal means seeing by faith what you desire thats consistent with new testament scripture and realities. It means unleashing your faith in Christ Jesus for what you have believed over what you currently see or experience.

The result is that when you do this, the spirit of God begins to inspire, guide and instruct you in knowledge and wisdom to prepare yourself for that new position or level. And when you walk in obedience to His guidance and specific instruction and leading, you'll certainly experience Heaven's power in the circumstance.

And in I John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
This means your faith in the Christ Jesus unleashed on your circumstance by the Word (by acknowledging only that which you have believed for according to His word) produces a victory that leads to greater victories, and no force in this world will stop your continued progress(its also called 'Good Success').

The word Eternal life OR Eternal is a present day reality for the child of God. Victory over life's circumstances is a present day reality for us and not something we hope for in the sweet by and by.

KunleOshob:
@ttalks
How are you? Hope all is well

KunleOshob:
For now i would not give personal opinions or comments rather i would implore Noetic to explain these scriptures to me. he evaded them on a previous thread so i would repeat them here. His explaination of these scriptures would then elicit further comments from me.

Revelation 20:11-13:
The Final Judgment  
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds.

OLAADEGBU:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. -- John 3:19-20

The same sunlight that melts candles also hardens clay. As God's light shines on man, the sinner's heart determines his response. One whose heart is tender will respond to God, one whose heart is bent on evil will harden his heart further against God and will remain in darkness. Sinners should note: After Pharaoh repeatedly hardened his heart against God (Exodus 8:15,32), God then hardened Pharaoh's heart (Exodus 10:27). Those who continualllly reject God will be given up to "uncleanness, vile affections, and a reprobate mind" (Romans 1:24,26,28).

JeSoul:
^^^ You haven't said anything new and are constantly shifting the proverbial goalpost. And at this point, I'm taking LightWalks advice and throwing in the towel.

JeSoul:
^^^ mischeivious.
I accept[b] both Moses and Paul's versions as truth[/b] and explained in detail why.

You brushed aside Exodus 8 insinuating the NT version is superior to the OT, essentially saying "Paul had access to the true meaning and not Moses" - that don't sound absurd to you? Isn't this your position?

JeSoul:
I can't believe you actually typed the above.

It seems in an effort to argue your position as credible you're venturing into the absurd. Scripture does not contradict scripture. Romans says God hardened his heart, Exodus says Pharaoh did it - you're saying we take the Romans version and ignore Exodus because the "Apostles were given access to the true meaning"? Moses who recounted the actual events [/b]did not have access to the "true meaning"? 

So by your rationale, Paul's word is superior and takes precedence over Moses? is it not all God's word? isn't it God who wrote the bible? why would God contradict Himself? Please I kindly ask you soberly reflect and re-think your position.

I will refrain from responding to the rest of your post for now until we iron out the above creases that are at the heart of this entire thread.

lightwalk:
https://bestsmileys.com/textinbubble1/17.gif

JeSoul:
Oh dear. ttalks, this is weak and you know it.
Even if we were to go by your standard here, which version would be more 'accurate'?: the "actual narrative"? or one that's been handed down through several centuries?

Scripture does not contradict scripture. Romans says "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" while Exodus says "Pharaoh hardened his own heart" which is correct?

Let me offer my own view.
In situations where it appears scriptures are standing on opposing sides, the logical method of approach would be to find a scenario where both would be right. Pharaoh hardened his own heart - and God allowed him by not restraining him. This is why Pharaoh's hardening is attributed to God, because God is sovereign and whatever He allows He uses to work towards His ultimate plan of man's salvation. Infact it a style of biblical writers in many portions to attribute practically everything to God, because He allowed it. This in itself doesn't mean God did it.

---

- Let me give an illustration:
I have a wayward friend who's always falling into sin so one day I get him and I keep him tied and locked in the basement so he won't sin. Now if I take off the ropes and let him out and he goes on to commit sins - is it my fault? No. Each man is responsible for his own actions. Could I have prevented it by keeping him locked up? yes, but what is the long term feasibility of such an action?

So while he is responsible for his own actions, in a way I am responsible too because I allowed it to happen - but am I to blame for his actions? did I cause his actions? did I determine his actions? not at all.

---

You were doing okay until the highlighted part
I have no problem with the idea God can sometimes influence or affect our wills - you have been saying He "determines" "controls" and "causes" it - this I have major beef with.
As christians the Holy Spirit walks with us, teaching us what to do, say, think etc He affects our choices and our lives - this is the influence I'm refering to.
Not for a millisecond. It suggests God is sovereign, and that in His sovereignty has given man the power to make his own choices, and God having the foreknowledge of what sinful men will do had already laid out His plan in the midst of it all.
I don't necessarily disagree with that. You will recall the major point I've been rehashing is your position that God "determines or controls or causes" our will.

JeSoul:
ttalks, you still side stepped the main issue here. Thus far I have avoided posting counter-attack scripture verses that teach the opposite of what you assert because that would be chopping at the leaves instead of the roots.

Please see this previous post of mine, consider and take it to heart

ttalks,
don't you think its unbalanced to pluck a verse here and there that say "God controls everything" but yet ignore the other verses that say we choose, we decide to believe or not etc and walk the path of our own lives?
What we need to do is bring both sides together and come up with the help of the holy spirit an answer that includes both sides - because the scripture does not contradict scripture.

James 4:13-15
(13)  How foolish it is to say, Today or tomorrow we will go into this town, and be there for a year and do business there and get wealth:
(14)  When you are not certain what will take place tomorrow. What is your life? It is a mist, which is seen for a little time and then is gone.
(15)  But the right thing to say would be, If it is the Lord's pleasure and if we are still living, we will do this and that.

JeSoul:
Already aware of these positions and I fall firmly with the Arminians . I'm guessing you're a "predestination" guy right?

I agree with the meat of this quote, but the conclusion is flawed.
That God permits and allows and even wants us to face evil and hard times does not equal God is responsible for evil.

JeSoul:
I'm happy you pointed that out and was hoping we would head in that specific direction of "God hardening Pharaoh's heart".

Now why the would bible say here in Rom 9 that God hardened Pharaoh's heart but way back in Ex 8 say that it was Pharaoh that hardened his own heart?
Ex 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.
8:32 But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go.

Before I go further, I'd love to hear your theory/understanding of these two seemingly contradictory verses.

Good approach in breaking it down but I still find the highlighted portions problematic. God doesn't make anybody do anything ttalks, that is just not biblically accurate. Does He influence us? yes, does He control us? no.

Take a second to really think about what you just asserted here, heck take two seconds! lol This is insinuating God is responsible for all the evil, for the fall of Adam and Eve, for everything . . . please rethink and revise brotha.

Care to explain why? what are your perceived deficiencies of holding such a position? To me is both satifies the fact we have free will and God's ultimate purpose will always be accomplished.

If there was no evil in this world, we would not know what good is.
So, if there was no wrong, there would be no right.

If there was no wrong doing, there would be no doing right.

So, if God did not will for evil to exist in this life, he would not have it in his will that we do Good and shun evil.

God wants us to be able to face evil and evil times so as to be able to learn how to resist such,stand fast and be faithful; and ultimately, to realize that without him we can do nothing; that is, for us to be humbled and to know that he is the all in all.

So, evil or wrong that we see and face is still part of God's will.

That makes it easy to say that God is still behind all the evil that manifests itself one way or the other.
if(evil) by any man;saved or unsaved,all through the will of God for the benefit of man at the end.

and if you don't, how do you explain these verses in scripture?
John 7:17
If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Mk 3:35 Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother

there could not be a clearer portion of scripture that shows we do have a choice whether or not to do the will of God. Which is why this next quote from you is extremely problematic:
So in essence your position is we never have a choice? we are simply pawns in God's supernatural chess game who really have no say in determining anything about the course of our lives?

We agree God's purpose and ultimate will will always be accomplished no matter what, but where we differ is how this purpose gets accomplished. You say he determines our will and in essence our choices, I say He works within the choices that we make because He has foreknowledge of what we will do - and uses this to bring about His will and purpose. Does He influence our wills sometimes? absolutely! does He ever determine it? I don't think that is biblically accurate.

JeSoul:
ttalks, you're muddying the waters a lil bit here brotha. Lets look at Rom 9 in total context shall we?

---

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

---

I daresay this portion of scripture is not talking about God controlling our wills - it is saying God's ultimate will/purpose will be done regardless! and there's nothing man can do to stop or resist it. This is very different from saying He controls or determines our will. I hope you see this subtle but very important distinction.

lightwalk:
So daft, We'll talk again when you grow

lightwalk:
Maybe you will understand if i explain it you like a child.
God's will does not encompass every minute action. In fact I did say about 60% of the things we do are outside his will.

It's just like a company that has a vision to develop a wired world. The employees are told not to do things that are outside the vision of the company. The manager lays out his plan in a perfect way and is sure of the future outcome. But He does not control his employees unnecessarily. He intervenes only when it is necessary. That's why Jesus did not come earth until it was time for Him. That's what is meant by free will my dear.

lightwalk:
@ttalks. Your interpretations of the Bible continues to surprise me
The question is what is God's will. He has specific wills and all cannot be resisted. But the question is what and what does He will. Think beyond the space that restricts you and do something you have never done. You'll feel better.

JeSoul:
It would be better if we came up with a definition for what we mean by "God's will" anyways.

JeSoul:
Good question.
I don't think it is accurate to say "God's will is always done" because it isn't.

Rom 9:16-21
(16)  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
(17)  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
(18)  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(19)  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
(20)  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
(21)  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

verycute:
KunleOshob has two working ministries 1) THE MINISTRY OF POINTING OUT OBVIOUS ERRORS 2) JUDAS MINISTRY.

Like Judas in the Alabaster oil case, Kunle talks as if he is in love with the poor people of Nigeria. Check out Kunle's life, you will see what i mean. Someone who can never see God in another man.