₦airaland Forum

ttalks:
There is no message of material prosperity in the gospel of Christ. The only message in the gospel of Christ is the salvation of the man; the prosperity of his soul;the richness of man towards God;eternal life.

If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical prosperity, good for him.Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living.
If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical non-prosperity, good for him. The gospel has achieved its purpose in granting him eternal life. Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living. If he ends up doing things in this course which are very normal which lead to physical prosperity, he definitely will be prosperous physically.


The gospel is about man's soul getting eternal life in Christ. It is apart from  physical prosperity. Physical propserity is subject to natural and earthly standards.
And it is also subject to what God's will and purpose is for a man at a particular and every point in time.

[quote author=aletheia link=topic=389323.msg5417699#msg5417699 date=1264880791]^^^

1Co 7:20  Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called.
1Co 7:21  Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.)
1Co 7:22  For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ.
1Co 7:23  You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.
1Co 7:24  So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.

[/quote]Wow! !

When I wrote the post above, I didn't even make the connection to the verses you added to buttress it, aletheia.
They go perfectly hand in hand.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=388869.msg5410473#msg5410473 date=1264772607]Ttalks and Nuclearbboy

Ok I know that foolishness, deceit et al are EVILS, all i want to know is if there is a part or portion FOR A PHYSICAL BEATING AND BLOW TO MAKE SOMEONE DESIST FROM THERE ACT that's all.

lets see the scriptures again, it says :
Proverbs 20:30- " Physical beating cleanses away evil; such discipline purifies the heart. "NLT

Pls dont tell me the keyword "physical" are figuratives, before you do, pls check the hebrew translation for that word. [/quote]It's very simple. It's just like saying when you flog a child for doing something wrong, he desists from doing that wrong again for fear of another beating/flogging. The pain or suffering derived from the blows of the beating or flogging would serve as a deterrent from doing that wrong again; thereby cleansing away that evil.

Or the pain received through rebuke on a wrong would serve as a deterrent for further wrong doing.

It isn't far-fetched.

Joagbaje:
The point here is, There is an idea that the message of prosperity is ungodly or worldly, So let us look at it . There is no middle line , Is the gospel of christ for or against the idea of prosperity. Is there provision for the church ,the hope of prosperity or we just live our lives by whatever we see. or luck?

There is no message of material prosperity in the gospel of Christ. The only message in the gospel of Christ is the salvation of the man; the prosperity of his soul;the richness of man towards God;eternal life.

If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical prosperity, good for him.Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living.
If a man gets the gospel of Christ and accepts it while in a state of physical non-prosperity, good for him. The gospel has achieved its purpose in granting him eternal life. Let him live his life according to the gospel and continue to do things which do not violate the gospel in making a living. If he ends up doing things in this course which are very normal which lead to physical prosperity, he definitely will be prosperous physically.


The gospel is about man's soul getting eternal life in Christ. It is apart from  physical prosperity. Physical propserity is subject to natural and earthly standards.
And it is also subject to what God's will and purpose is for a man at a particular and every point in time.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=389323.msg5409201#msg5409201 date=1264759166]@Joagbaje,

Let me tell you a little about my brother KunleOshob, from my little stay here in this religious section

- i have known him as someone who cannot say a thing and stand bold to it even in the face of ridicule so he chooses to always use the word "WE"
to maybe get some comrades who'll back him. And yet he calls himself a CHRISTIAN

- He barely writes anything in detail to butress his points, but will choose to copy and paste what others have written to back and butress him assertions

- He is wholly against the Gospel when Prosperity is preached, yet i wonder if he even gives at all

- I asked him once if his church even believes in offerings and KunleOshob said NO they dont take offerings, so any argument with him will be an exercise in futility as he is void of the knowledge of the topic - Giving.

That's kunle for you![/quote]In the church you refered to above, offerings are collected according to the way it was stipulated in the bible; and that is as the need arises.
When there is no need, no offerings are collected.

It is essentially the point being pushed across by Paul in :

1Co 16:1-4
(1) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
(2) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
(3) And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
(4) And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

The saints in Jerusalem were in need, so Paul initiated offerings for them which should take place over a course of time till he came to the corinthians. Then he would gather what had been offered and take to those who were in need of it.
Simple.

sophiap:
The Gospel is not against Prosperity and will never be. The God we serve is a rich God and he loves his children too much to let them wallow in poverty. All through the Bible all the men God walked with were RICH, check out the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon( who was the richest and wisest man on earth because God made him so) I say he was beacause he stopped being the richest and wisest when I came into the scene. God did not pay so much of a price (the life of his son Jesus Christ) for me to live in poverty here on earth. NO! If he wanted me to live in porverty Jesus wouldn't have come, Jesus came to pay the price so we can be free from sin, sickness, poverty, death e.t.c.

God says in the book of Jerimiah 29:11 the New International Version; "For I know the plans i have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". what future would you want to hope for if theres no prosperity in it?

If humans take pleaure in giving their children good gifts and doing all they possibly can to make sure their children have a brighter future, do you think God our loving Father woud do anything less by taking pleasure in our poverty? Certainly not. David said in Psalms 35:27 "Let them shout for Joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, [color=#990000]which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. The NIV says "who delights in the well-being of his servant".[/color]

My God is a God of prosperity (1Chronicles 29:12, "Both riches and honour come of thee, ", and His greatest desire is that i live my life in properity and health, 3 John 1:2 "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest proper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth". I am His beloved so He couldn't wish any thing less for me.

God said to Solomon in 2 Chronicles 1:12, "Wisdom and Knowledge are granted you, and I will you give you riches, possessions, honour, and glory, , why should he do anything less for me for whom he paid the ultimate price; the Life of his son Jesus Christ.

THE GOSPEL IS NEVER AGAINST PROSPERITY!

All the people you mentioned above did not have the gospel of Christ.
Also, which of the people who promulgated the gospel of Christ in the bible did you see with material properity or material riches?

Point of Correction: The gospel of Christ is about spiritual prosperity. Physical prosperity is by normal earthly standards put into proper perspective.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=388869.msg5409251#msg5409251 date=1264759891]But none of those passages used the keyword "EVIL" rather foolishness which is not the same thing as evil[/quote]So you do not know that foolishness in itself is evil?
If it wasn't evil, why the need to get rid of it?

Foolishness/stupidity/folly are all by-products of evil or sub-classes of evil; hence the need to get rid of them by correction.

Mar 7:21-23
(21) For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
(22) Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
(23) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Psa 89:32
(32) Then will I punish their transgression with the rod [of chastisement], and their iniquity with stripes. [II Sam. 7:14.]

Pro 13:24
(24) He who spares his rod [of discipline] hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines diligently and punishes him early. [Prov. 19:18; 22:15; 23:13; 29:15, 17.]

Pro 22:15
(15) Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

Pro 23:13-14
(13) Withhold not discipline from the child; for if you strike and punish him with the [reedlike] rod, he will not die.
(14) You shall whip him with the rod and deliver his life from Sheol (Hades, the place of the dead).

Pro 26:3
(3) A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a [straight, slender] rod for the backs of [self-confident] fools.

Pro 29:15
(15) The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left undisciplined brings his mother to shame.

The verses above say essentially the same thing which Proverbs 20:30 is saying:


Pro 20:30
(30) Blows that wound cleanse away evil, and strokes [for correction] reach to the innermost parts.


Remember, the language of the bible is mostly symbolic.

inedi:
In my understanding,the gospel is not against prosperity

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Do you know the kind of life that Christ came to give us?
Is it the normal life that everybody has on earth which might include riches or not or is it eternal life which has to do with spiritual prosperity?
The verse above has nothing to do with normal life or what could be included in it; it has to do with eternal life which is the prosperity the gospel of Christ preaches; being rich towards God.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=388869.msg5403338#msg5403338 date=1264689191]Ok brother,

How then would you define or describe EVIL. ^{*pardon my many questions i am trying to arrive somewhere and you are getting closer*}[/quote]I'll give you strong's concordance definition:

bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=388869.msg5403151#msg5403151 date=1264687735]Good! if you've agreed to say the evil used there was as the same as that used to explain King Saul's evil, then lets also see it this way

King Saul was possessed with "râ‛âh[evil spirit]" and it was pacified through a physical means, would i be wrong now to postulate that A PHYSICAL MEANS IS NEEDED TO CASTING EVIL SPIRITS?

Ttalks, the onus is that i think one of the means to cleanse evil spirits was the use of the means of wipes and strokes. The term evil could be synonymous with the term DEMON(i wish i m wrong to say this)[/color].[/quote]First of all, some corrections need to be made here:

râ‛âh does not mean evil spirit; it means evil. Evil spirit would be râ‛âh rûach or the other way around.

Based on the above, it would be very wrong to suggest that evil is synonymous with the term demon; it should be : evil spirit is synonymous with demon.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=388869.msg5402867#msg5402867 date=1264685316]@Ttalks,

Yeah i appreciate that contribution, but i think what that passage suggests is actually the casting away of AN EVIL SPIRIT and not necessarily some correction from a vice(s).

I read a Hebrew bible and saw that the term Evil as used there meant the same as "the evil spirit that King Saul had" and needed a harpist to play and pacify. I have been so afraid to agree to what my mind is pointing to.[/quote]Tonye-t, that passage has nothing to do with casting out any evil spirit. It is as I said earlier.
The hebrew word for evil used there and that used for the evil spirit tormenting Saul is : ra‛ or râ‛âh

It is the same word used for evil all over the old testament. eg. in the garden of eden; the tree of good and evil.

Would you now say that those other uses of evil in the old testament had to do with evil spirits because they are the same with that related to the evil in evil spirit?

It has to do with chastisement,punishment for the purpose of correction and setting aright. Matthew Henry has this to say ----------  1. Many need severe rebukes. Some children are so obstinate that their parents can do no good with them without sharp correction;some criminals must feel the rigour of the law and public justice;gentle methods will not work upon them;they must be beaten black and blue. And the wise God sees that his own children sometimes need very sharp afflictions. 2. Severe rebukes sometimes do a great deal of good, as corrosives contribute to the cure of a wound, eating out the proud flesh.The rod drives out even that foolishness which was bound up in the heart,and cleanses away the evil there. 3. Frequently those that most need severe rebukes can worse bear them. Such is the corruption of nature that men are as loth to be rebuked sharply for their sins as to be beaten till their bones ache. Correction is grievous to him that forsakes the way, and yet it is good for him.Hebrews 12:11.

Mr. Agbaje, u are so much of a disappointment. Paul's referencing of the old testament does not imply the same practice in the new. The old period required tithes and offerings and priests got what they could out of that for consumption with the providers. It was now a tenth of the tithes which they gave to God; which means 1 percent, not the deceptive ten percent u collect from ur sheeple. The gospel requires that we give offerings as we can to meet needs;not tithes. It is from this 'what we can and want to give' offerings that pastors who do not want to work on the side are to live on. If it meets their needs totally,good. If it comes short, they should remember Paul's talk on contentment in Philipians 4. There is no tithing as a rule in the new covenant.

[quote author=Joagbaje ]You dodging the point and emphasis. At this piont Paul wasnt lacking anything. but recieved on the account of blessing them. Take the bible for what it says. I know this shatters your campaign.
  Philip. 4:17-18
    Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.[/quote]This was Agbaje's first answer when I questioned him about the verse above. His emphasis was that Paul was already full(meaning he didn't need the stuff sent to him but received it on account of blessing them; driving home his(agbaje's) point that they gave because they wanted to be blessed).

Joagbaje:
I have answered this before.The reason Paul was full was not becaused he was working with his hands here as  he did in Corinth but he was full because of things he had recieved through Epaphrotitus and others.

Philip. 4:17-18
    Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
He still went ahead and collected them because of the spiritual principles they were operating.

, "Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account[", /b]
And he went ahead to bless them.

[b]Philip. 4:19
    But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

And then, the above(emphasis on the red part) is his second response when I asked him for his response to Pastor AIO's contribution.

Can anybody who reads and understands english very well tell me or the forum whether the two quotes from him are in agreement or aren't?

From my own interpretation, they aren't. his second quote was buttressed with Pastor AIO's answer(which was absent in the first quote).
Also, Pastor AIO would not have said what he said if what he(agbaje) claims to have said before was in his earlier quote.

For reference purposes, this is pastor AIO's quote:

Pastor AIO: Please sir, can you tell us the reason that Paul was Full and no longer with need or necessity?

Answer: Because he received a gift from the Phillippians.  A gift he didn't ask for, but all he really desired was that the philippians were spiritually fruitful, yet he received it as sent through epaphroditus.

Agbaje, . . . why na? 

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg5355643#msg5355643 date=1264004627]Ttalks and Ogajim,

I laugh in disgust, if at this stage you read the bible and say characters should not be interpreted as "figuratives" and "symbolics" but direct personalities, then needless replying the both.

Because it'll simply mean that for us to perform the miracles Jesus did, then we would all have to put on a garment and possibly tell our followers to start wearing jewish garments just to ritually portrait how it was in his days. That my friends is plain stupi.idity!

Every act and deeds by Jesus is today meant for our interpretation with the times and seasons we find ourselves. When the people brought the question of taxing to Jesus and who should receive the tax, the bible said "he knew they came to test him " and as such answered them relatively. Caesar in that passage connotes our material obligations to our fellow man, while "the things of God should be for God"

I pray you both will not be deluded again!

_{*How i wish i could get the whole day here to field questions from napkin-Xtians safe for my time consuming job*}[/quote]The twist at work again.

Tonye, stop being decietful. Giving unto caeser has nothing to do with our material obligations to our fellow man.
Interprete the passage within its context and not your convoluted reasoning.

Giving unto caeser is simply a reference to situations like paying your taxes to the government,obeying the rules which are set by the government, keeping to the directions and policies of your employer,ensuring you are in line with those who are in authority of any sort over you, etc.

It has nothing to do with giving to widows,orphans,needy etc. which the bible describes as giving unto God.

Joagbaje:
You dodging the point and emphasis. At this piont Paul wasnt lacking anything. but recieved on the account of blessing them. Take the bible for what it says. I know this shatters your campaign.
Philip. 4:17-18
Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

Kai!! It is so clear that some people did badly in comprehension in English in secondary school days.

Pastor AIO:
Please sir, can you tell us the reason that Paul was Full and no longer with need or necessity?

Answer: Because he received a gift from the Phillippians. A gift he didn't ask for, but all he really desired was that the philippians were spiritually fruitful, yet he received it as sent through epaphroditus.

Thank you Pastor AIO. I was going to give him this same response. I was busy with some other things; that's why I've been offline for a while; if not I'd have answered him'

Mr. Agbaje, where is your response to this?

One thing that has become pretty clear with you tithe advocates is that when we burst your bubble on one part you forget about it and jump to another part; still maintaining the deceit in which you're living in and spreading.
You are a clear example of this behaviour and so is Tonye-t(since he doesn't want to respond to his blunder about giving unto ceaser).

Joagbaje:
Philip. 4:17-18
Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

Check the motive in the highlighted part

Philip. 4:15-17
Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. [16] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. [17] Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.


Did you disregard that part in bold above?

Joagbaje:
bla bla bla,

Dont quote me out of context. I quoted the scripture to buttress the fact that you give to receive, the principle of seed sowing generally. But i quoted other scripture about giving to men of God ,Why didnt you coment on those ones.

Galatians 6:6-7
Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

1 Cor. 9:11-14
If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?, [12] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? [14] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.


1 Kings 17:13-14
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.

The story of this poor widow changed when she gave to the prophet.

Philip. 4:15-17
Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. [16] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. [17] Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [/b]

[b]Luke 8:2-3
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Tithing is merely one of the smallest part of our givings. They are all still valid.
So i await your comments on these scriptures.

Mr. Jo, nobody has said anything wrong about giving. we are only letting you know that tithes as you guys advocate it is not binding on christians.

As regards giving to pastors, it is an acceptable fact in Christianity(but note: this giving is not tithes). But giving to pastors is not because you want to "tap into his so called anointing" or maybe you are hoping for a bountiful return/harvest; it is because he has a need that you give to him. And your giving to him is if you are[b] willing to[/b] and if you are able to.

2Co 9:7
(7)  Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


All the passages you gave above show one thing; that the givings were to meet needs; not to tap any anointing or whatever.

Joagbaje:
Ephes. 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, [b]working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to[b] give to him [/b] that needeth. [/b]

Can you see the part highlighted in red?
Giving is to those that are in need. Giving is a response to need. That is not reflected in all the balderdash u and ur cronies have been saying.

Joagbaje:
ALL YOU DO IS ABUSE AND INSULT WHICH REVEALS THE LACK OF LOVE OF CHRIST.
EVEN IF THE WHOLE CHURCH OF CHRIST WAS WRONG AND YOU AND YOUR BLIND GUDES ARE WRITE. WHY NOT FOLLOW BIBLE. ISTEAD OF RIDICLING THE CHURCH WHICH CHRIST HAS PURCHASED

^^Is this Agbaje or his 5 yr old son?  

It is not wrong ! !
Forget about all those who will tell you it is wrong cos they clearly do not know what they're talking about.

To answer ur question easily, you first need to know if consumption of alcohol is wrong.
Answer to that is : no, consumption of alcohol is not wrong; over indulgence in it(which could lead to drunkeness) is what is wrong.
Breweries produce alcoholic drinks for responsible consumption by their consumers.
It is the responsibility of the consumers to be responsible in their drinking.

So, in conclusion, to work in a brewery as a Christian is definitely fine!

Take a look at this:

Automobile companies produce cars. Cars are good for moving one from one point to the other(transportation).
But, overspeeding with cars is wreckless and can lead to accidents which could claim lives.
Do we now say driving of cars is a sin?
Do we now say that working in an automobile company is a sin?


That is exactly the same scenario with brewries.

And besides, there is no where in the bible that consumption of alcohol is regarded as sinful; rather, the overindulgence is what is regarded as sinful.

If you understand IT(info-tech), I could explain it like this:

God is the server in a distributed application, while man is the client.
In this scenario, they use remote method invocation(rmi) to access themselves.

That means there is need for the server to provide an interface where by the client can access it and drop its requests.

Therefore, Christ(Jesus) is the interface provided by the server(God) through which the client(man) can access the server.

1 Timothy 2:5 -
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Annunaki:
Dis L'agbajae man desperately needs help.

Yes o ! He truly does.

Anyone who's been following this thread ought to know who this is . . . . .

Joagbaje:
He asked simple questions that you all avoided

Sycophant!
Are you trying to tell us that you are so dim in thinking not to see that every thing we've been saying all through this thread has answered Tonye's questions.
He just doesn't want to admit that we've answered him.

He knows we do not have the time and will not do any "dissertation" on tithes; that is why he keeps repeating himself.

mabell:
@joagbaje
"wao! your writeups are always insightful"

LoL !
His write ups are a desperate attempt to stay afloat amidst overwhelming evidences against his claims.

Olaadegbu, the verses u put for Christians does not talk about tithes. Please stop lying to prove your points. We've been through this countless number of times

^^^
1Jn 2:18
(18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22
(22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3
(3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7
(7) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Anybody can be an antichrist.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg5273304#msg5273304 date=1262944382]

Therefore let us give to God what is due God (Matt. 22:21), give to Caesar (beggars, poor, widows) what belong to them. In the Old Testament administrative tithing, Moses’ commanded them to set aside the tithes in the 3rd year and give specifically unto the strangers, widows and orphans. Simple!.[/quote]Look at this bare faced liar. Who told you that the explanation you gave about matthew 22:21 is right? 

You lie so much to justify ur horrible beliefs.

Mat 22:17-21
(17)  Tell us then what You think about this: Is it lawful to pay tribute [levied on individuals and to be paid yearly] to Caesar or not?
(18)  But Jesus, aware of their malicious plot, asked, Why do you put Me to the test and try to entrap Me, you pretenders (hypocrites)?
(19)  Show me the money used for the tribute. And they brought Him a denarius.
(20)  And Jesus said to them, Whose likeness and title are these?
(21)  They said, Caesar's. Then He said to them, Pay therefore to Caesar the things that are due to Caesar, and pay to God the things that are due to God.

Giving unto caeser what is his is used to refer(in our times) to making sure we fulfil our obligations to those who are in authority(government,employers, etc) and not be found wanting in areas such as[b] taxes, obedience to the law and the rule of law, making sure we are working when we ought to be working,etc[/b]
Giving unto God what is his is simply refering to the simplest of all things; giving of our lives to him(believing in him,worshiping him,trusting in him,obeying his word,etc).

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg5252276#msg5252276 date=1262690564]Ttalks,

save us your nursery rhymes and tell us plainly what you can make up with this passage

Matt.23:23 - And Jesus said unto them practise mercy, practise Justice, practise Faithfulness and also do not neglect to practise Tithing (American paraphrased version)

Simple! I m open to learn from the wise-ttalks [/quote]Tonye-t, do you seriously need a memory jog?


Consider this below:

In the old days:-

Principal says at the morning assembly - "Students, it has been observed that you come to the exam hall with your pens to write down your answers to the exam questions but you neglect the most important thing which is to prepare hard by studying for the exam.
That is why, despite the fact that you put down answers in your sheets, you end up failing woefully.
You ought to study hard and properly and also to come with your pens to the exam hall in order to write down correct answers and pass your exams."

In the new days(data age):-

Principal says in his email message to every student - "Students, we are now using computers for your examinations now.
The questions are in the systems and all you are required to do is prepare well for the exams, come to the exam hall without any pens or writing materials as all you would be required to do is click on the correct answers with the mouse of your computer."


Now relate the above to matthew 23:23 Mr. Tonye.

Keynotes/Keywords:
Old days - old covenant/old testament
New days/data age - new covenant/new testament
Pen(s) - Tithe(s)
Studying/preparing - Justice,mercy and faith.


That's all I have for you. try to decipher what i'm driving at