₦airaland Forum

Hi nuclearboy, . . .

Not really sure how to answer ur question as regards "church type".
But I think what I should do is give background info on where I was before and where I am now.

I was born into a muslim family, and I was a muslim for the first 14 years of my life.
Then, in the 14th year; somewhere down the middle, I became Christian and joined the Pentecostal movement.
Was in the pentecostal movement for about 13 years before my eyes got open to the hidden truths(although not really hidden) in the
word of God.
Dusted my feet off the pentecostal movement in a slow and gradual process and now find myself with a group of believers that I can't really place
a classification on 'cos it ain't a denominational stuff; just a group of "serious-with-the-truth-of-the-bible" christians who have left
the popular everyday doctrines being spouted from the pulpits far and wide.
Have been there for a couple of years now; although I'm highly irregular due to the nature of my job.

So as it is, my "church type" has no classification.

No response on this issue yet?
Well, I saw some people had raised this issue in the past but I still feel it might require some fresh input . . . . . .

Relevance of "the Blood of Jesus and HolyGhost in prayer
Misusing and Abusing the blood of Jesus

This issue is very rampant in the church today; praying the blood of Jesus or pleading the blood of Jesus.
I feel this is a very large display of lack of faith in what Christ has already done.

gozzilla:
Was called the daystar. When he fell from Heaven as recorded in Ezekial he lost the right to that. Secondly, when Jesus went to hell and defeated him He took all the power the devil had. The bible actually said "He paralysed him, ". So now in the book of I peter Jesus is called the DayStar.

The above in bold - story story
The rest, . . . . . ok

Pastor AIO:
Obatala was sent down to create the earth with a basket of earth which he poured on the waters and a chicken which spread the earth over the waters, and a chameleon that tested the solidity of the earth, and with the help of the egungun which helped to make firm the earth. Orunmila observed all of that too.

In some myths it is actually Orunmila that descends and does what Obatala is said to have done.

I thought; based on secondary school teaching,that it was oduduwa that did the creating of the earth when the initial person sent(not sure who - obatala or orunmila) got drunk on the way and abandoned his mission.

5solas:
@Ttalks

I had been thinking of you since I started commenting on this thread. Your thread on freewill is awesome.

Thank you.
That thread highlights my view and i believe the biblical position on freewill.
I know it's a very controversial view capable of turning well meaning christians against each other,
but,that isn't a problem for me.
Besides,that isn't the only controversial view on this christian faith of ours that I hold/have;
I also hold/have controversial views on hell and also on the devil once being an angel of God.

But that aside:

5solas:
@All

I had remarked that  we should strive to avoid the errors of the Pelegians and Antinomians. Obviously this advise was as nothing to quite a lot of persons.
And what I have seen are these persons tackling Antinomianism that wasn't there.
All that was called for was for them to show what role works had to play in the justification of the sinner. Joagbaje had asked that. I have asked that. We are still waiting.

Your question has been answered; by myself and others, . . . . . . . .  it was even answered before you asked the question.

When Christ said the Holy Spirit was going to come and teach the Apostles stuff, he meant that the Holy Spirit would
expand on what he had already taught them.

That is why we read Christ's words and get more insight through the teachings of the apostles.
One portion of the bible is not enough to build a theory upon.
You read every other aspect to get a balanced teaching to decipher the true and complete point being passed across.

The salvation process is kick started upon belief in Christ(guarantee given), it is gone through by the living of the life expected of a person
who has believed upon Christ(ensuring that one's eligibility for the guarantee is valid), and the process is completed when we get our reward at the end(materialisation of the guarantee).

Rom 10:9
(9)  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

You shall be saved!!! It is very possible that this statement in the above statement is meant to be an instantaneous one, but
can anyone deny that it could also be a futuristic statement. See below:

"If you pay me $10,000 right now, you shall get a Toyota Camry." says a car dealer you met at a party.
"Ok." you say,and then within a few minutes;with the aid of your black berry and the internet, you wire/transfer $10,000 to the car dealers account
The car dealer acknowledges this payment by his own blackberry.You shake hands.

In two days time, the toyota camry was delivered to you.

Now, the car dealer made it clear that upon payment,you would get a car.Payment was made,but did you get the car instantaneously?
No! !
You got the car in two days time.
Meaning that upon doing what he requested, you only got a guarantee of getting the car.

That is exactly what "you shall be saved" means; you get a guarantee of being saved.

This is heavily supported by reading such a verse in line with 1 corinthians 1:18:

1Co 1:18(BBE)
(18)  For the word of the cross seems foolish to those who are on the way to destruction; but to us who are on the way to salvation it is the power of God.

1Co 1:18(AMP)
(18)  For the story and message of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.

1Co 1:18(AMP)
(18)  For the story and message of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.

1Co 1:18(BBE)
(18)  For the word of the cross seems foolish to those who are on the way to destruction; but to us who are on the way to salvation it is the power of God.

Joagbaje:
@ Enigma, Altheia,

Maybe I should just ask you this; At what point does a man get saved.

Getting saved is an ongoing process which is kick started by belief in Christ. Living the life expected of someone who has believed in Christ
is what maintains the salvation process.
Good works is evidence/proof of this life in Christ. These good works help maintain the faith and produce fruit which shows this faith we claim to have:

Titus 3:8
(  This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:14
(14)  And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

James 2:14-26(AMP)
(14)  What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
(15)  If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
(16)  And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
(17)  So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
(18)  But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
(19)  You believe that God is one; you do well. So do the demons believe and shudder [in terror and horror such as make a man's hair stand on end and contract the surface of his skin]!
(20)  Are you willing to be shown [proof], you foolish (unproductive, spiritually deficient) fellow, that faith apart from [good] works is inactive and ineffective and worthless?
(21)  Was not our forefather Abraham [shown to be] justified (made acceptable to God) by [his] works when he brought to the altar as an offering his [own] son Isaac? [Gen. 22:1-14.]
(22)  You see that [his] faith was cooperating with his works, and [his] faith was completed and reached its supreme expression [when he implemented it] by [good] works.
(23)  And [so] the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed in (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on) God, and this was accounted to him as righteousness (as conformity to God's will in thought and deed), and he was called God's friend. [Gen. 15:6; II Chron. 20:7; Isa. 41:8.]
(24)  You see that a man is justified (pronounced righteous before God) through what he does and not alone through faith [through works of obedience as well as by what he believes].
(25)  So also with Rahab the harlot--was she not shown to be justified (pronounced righteous before God) by [good] deeds when she took in the scouts (spies) and sent them away by a different route? [Josh. 2:1-21.]
(26)  For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead.


joagbaje, read James' writing very well without the bias you have acquired. Balance it with all the other scriptures.
James has no problem in anything he wrote; everything is in proper balance with the teachings of Jesus Christ and that of the apostles,Paul inclusive.

N/B: Verse 17 in the verses above should help in making this very clear. Faith without its evidence of works is dead/useless; that is equal to not having faith at all.Simple as anything can be.

5solas:
@Aletheai

Indeed you have always said works are the fruits of faith.

But can faith alone justify/save a person?

What does The Bible say in the books of Romans and Galatians?

Do the 'works of righteousness' contribute to our justification? What are 'works of righteousness' in the first place?

Forget about if this post was directed at Alethea.

It's really annoying that some things are so clearly explained and some people choose not to see these explanations for what they are.
Faith is what justifies a person.
But the simple fact is a person can only be said to have faith if he produces good works.
So, if he has good works,he has faith; therefore is justified.

The verses(matthew 25:32-46) which chukwudi has been posting about Jesus's judgment are very clear.
Jesus is using the same principle that he left for us - by their fruits you shall know them.
He is letting the people know that because they did those good works,he knows they have/had faith, so therefore, gives them their reward.

So also,he is letting the other people know that because they didn't do those good works,he knows they did not/do not have faith,so therefore,gives them what is fitting.

Anyone can claim to have faith in Christ,but those are only empty statements before God and man unless they are proved by the works we do.

Matthew 26:28
(28)  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The above is the purpose of the blood of Jesus as shown by the bible.
How come christians almost everywhere have turned the blood of Jesus into a battle axe in spiritual warfare
or prayer sessions.

toba mentioned Revelations 12:11 and Hebrew 12:24 as backing for the battle axe issue here.

Rev 12:11
(11)  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Heb 12:24
(24)  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Do these verses really say or show that the blood of Jesus is a prayer battle axe? 

Heb 12:24
(24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

the blood of Jesus is the sign or agency of this new covenant.It is what cleanses away our sin. That is what makes us victorious cos we've
overcome sin.

There is no indication that we are to use the mark or agency of our new life to brandish in battles.
If someone is pleading the blood of Jesus, it just doesn't make any sense.

toba:
the book of Hebrews says the blood of jesus speaketh better things than that of Abel&Rev 12vs11 Talks about how powerful the blood is. Therefore xtians must do likewise

Rev 12:11
(11) Our people defeated Satan because of the blood of the Lamb and the message of God. They were willing to give up their lives.

I do not see how this makes the blood of Jesus a battle axe. All this says is that Satan is defeated because of/by the blood of the lamb.
That is to say; because Christ shed his blood for us, satan has been defeated since we have been washed by that blood.
It is a[b] fact[/b] we know and not a battle axe.

Whence cometh making pronouncements with the blood of Jesus or using it to cast out demons?

[quote author=fine.boy link=topic=503932.msg6645421#msg6645421 date=1282841709]Then the thing restart all over again from my head this time it got worst/Increase and it was on my head for too long so i got annoyed and stroggle to shout JESUS and evrything got broken. Then i started to praying Blood of JESUS.[/quote]Any one care to give biblical support for this "praying the blood of Jesus" or the chanting of "blood of Jesus" or the saying/praying of "I cover you
with the blood of Jesus" or "I surround that house with the blood of Jesus" that a lot of christians use when praying or engaging in
"spiritual battles" ?

1Corinthians 12:3-6
(3)  Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking under the power and influence of the [Holy] Spirit of God can [ever] say, Jesus be cursed! And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit.
(4)  Now there are distinctive varieties and distributions of endowments (gifts, extraordinary powers distinguishing certain Christians, due to the power of divine grace operating in their souls by the Holy Spirit) and they vary, but the [Holy] Spirit remains the same.
(5)  And there are distinctive varieties of service and ministration, but it is the same Lord [Who is served].
(6)  And there are distinctive varieties of operation [of working to accomplish things], but it is the same God Who inspires and energizes them all in all.

There are different ways of accomplishing God's task for man. They are different probably in execution,style or manner; . . . . but are all in harmony/or make up a complete and non disagreeble unit when brought together.

They must conform to what the word of God says they are.

All these different administrations(of the gifts of the Spirit) are needed by every christian, so we can't say it is only a select set of people that are in need of a particular administration.
I guess this has to deal with the growth of a Christian. There are those administrations that are needed at the beginning stage, there are those that are needed at the middle stage
and then there are those that are needed at the matured stage(1st foundation - 2nd Building / 1st planting - 2nd watering) <<<< that sort of analogy

Therefore,every form of[b] God recognized[/b] administration has to be available one way or the other to every christian.

My take. 

It is so, so, so, . . . . sad.
joagbaje is gone, gone, gone, . . . . . gone forever . . .

A Summary on Tithe

wahala wa o ! ! Just to post link ! ! !

The churches in revelations were spiritual churches; and they were used to describe the attributes of the church(everywhere).
The seven churches were a description of what entails in the existing church(which is one body) and not a description of different physical churches.

The attributes of the seven total the attributes of the one church in existence.

Church on sunday with holy communion?
Catholic version?

Get to church on sunday, kneel beneath the crucifix and take the communion wafer.

God simply speaks to Christians by/through his word.

If you constantly study his word and meditate upon it, you will know God's will/mind about any issue.
One does not need to depend on uncertain voices to hear what God has to say.

A lot of so called pastors promote this issue of God speaking audibly to them;thereby making their sheep
to hang on everything they say as truth.
That is why we have a lot of heresy these days.
That is why we have a lot of broken lives when these men would tell their sheep:
"God said you must not go to your husband's village.His mother is a witch and is waiting to kill you."
"God said you must provide the finance that I will need to reach out to those in the United States."
"God said I should tell you that the girl you want to marry is not his will for you."

etc, etc . . . . .


The revealed word of God has God's mind about every issue that exists. it is the best way to know God's mind.


For instance, I do not need anybody or any small voice in my head to tell me that a person claiming to
be a pastor is what he says he is.
All I need is for the Holy Spirit to bring to my mind:

Matthew 7:15 - 20
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16[b]Ye shall know them by their fruits.[/b] Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20[b]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them[/b].

And by the way, who on earth says that title: MOG is reserved for pastors alone?

Every child of God who is male/Man is definitely a Man of God(MOG).
Every child of God who is female/Woman is definitely a Woman of God(WOG).
Every child of God who is male/Boy is definitely a Boy of God(BOG).
Every child of God who is female/Girl is definitely a Girl of God(GOG).

techj,

Seriously, don't you think you're the one in need of help here?
Look at what you posted. . . . .

techJ:
@ogoamaka99

You are very correct and I wonder why some people will be so silly as to even believe them in the first place. May be they think they came into existence by chance or by evolving from one animal. Well, what can I say "he who has ears, let him ear what the Spirit of God says".

Are you reading properly or not? how does the bolded above relate to people who are supposed to be believers even if ogo doesn't think they are?

techJ:
@ttalks
I think you need help, how can you ask him to mention names. Appraise yourself and verify if you are among or not, that's all you need to know, period!

If he can't mention any names; at least one name, then I have to consider him a liar because as far as I am concerned,
there is no person who is a believer or is supposedly a believer on this forum that is guilty of what he says a lot are.

Joagbaje:
@Kunleoshob,Toluxa,TV01


Your assertion is untrue.  Even in the Old testament, They were not allowed just to marry who they like, but from among their people who worship God. God rules the home.

Numbers 36:6
6 This[ is] the thing which the Lord doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them marry to whom they think best; only to the family of the tribe of their father shall they marry.

1 Corinthians 7:39
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

The ground on which israelites were not allowed to marry other nations was on the ground of faith. Not mere family ties. Because Israel was the only nation under God.The OT was a shaddow  of the NT.  In Christ , same thing obtains.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in[ them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


God has a say in who you marry and how you go about it. Because he has a purpose for the Christian marriage. It is not a family affair. It is a divine institution. He is looking for godly seed.

Malachi 2:15
15 And did not God make[ you and your wife] one[ flesh]? Did not One make you and preserve your spirit alive? And why[ did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring[ from your union].

The Christian children are godly seed, but the children of the unsaved are unholy.

Jo,

You were asked to show from scripture where you must be in a church gathering/building and receive blessings from a pastor for your marriage to be recognized and blessed by God.

All you've shown so far has not done justice to that.

Rather,the verses you've posted strengthen the fact that all that is required of two believers getting married is just that
they are believers of Christ and have decided to become one in Christ; whether by court marriage(to satisfy the law of the land)
or by traditional wedding(to satisfy the requirements of the parents' traditions) or by simple engagement.

The so called church wedding is just an addition that is not necessary.

ogoamaka99:
HOW YOU CAN KNOW THOSE WHO HAVE ERRED FROM THE TRUTH, WHO ARE POSSESSED WITH THE SPIRIT OF ERROR.
(1) They say they are Christians but don't fellowship with other believers.

(2) They don't believe in any church, and don't belong to any church or go to
any church on sunday.

(3) They don't believe in any MOG and are quick to attack every MOG.
They brand every MOG as either fake,false prophet or possessing the power of satan.

(4) They don't believe in basic Bible doctrine and always attack other Christians that points the truth concerning the basic Bible doctrines.etc

Anyone who is possessed with the spirit of error is dangerous, so run away from such person and their posts.

Can you give me just one example of a person in this forum that displays all these above?

Funny person you are.
You speak like it is babies that occupy this forum.
Your warning isn't really necessary.
But meanwhile, . . . .

ogoamaka99:
The Bible said that by their fruit you shall know them. ( Mathew 7 : 15-20).Therefore you must test the spirit behind every posts by knowing the spirit behind the poster.

. . . . . . . how do you suggest somebody does the bolded above . . . . 

Note: I want your own explanation of what it means or how to go about it; . . . . . I'm not accepting any other person's own but yours.

Loving someone does not mean you cannot tell him or her that she is doing wrong or in the wrong.

Therefore, it is possible to love people who are gay or whatever even as a Christian.
The only thing you should watch out for is their lifestyle influencing yours.

Love as a christian isn't restricted to just other christians/brethren; it goes beyond that to those who aren't.
We love the persons but do not love their wrong choices; which we should;whenever the opportunity presents itself,
let them know how we feel about them.

But whatever choice they make in such regard, we must respect.

maclatunji:
For sure, I am a Muslim, but I am certain I have created a new style of argument on this section of the forum which will help objective minds think logically and make clear and unambiguous observations.

Sorry oga, but you haven't created anything new. This issue you think u've just raised has been thrashed out directly/indirectly in
many other threads in the past.
Look for something else to raise.

vedaxcool:
@ cry baby
But I will NOT insult you(goes on to write)------>Its just sad that you started out with Allah giving you the brains of a donkey and an aversion for truth.

Right from the begining you spent all the time crying wininig and insulting but I have given you evidence of a confused book where at one hand you want us to believe an innocent man should die so that you can sin free of charge, pathetic

If the book that you are giving us evidence from is a confused book, that simply means the evidence you are giving us is also
confused.
Therefore, such evidence is unreliable and completely unacceptable. It is null and void! ! !

^^ besides, if you use a hebrew dictionary to look up the word Lucifer, you will not find hêylêl - הילל among the various
words given for it.
Rather you'd find:

לוציפר
or
השטן
or
כוכב נוגה
or
ונוס

It is only in the Catholic Latin Vulgate created by Jerome that you'd find the word hêylêl being translated as Lucifer. and the latin vulgate
was what was used to create the kjv and a lot of current bible versions/translations that abound today.
The latin vulgate was the source of this error that abounds today.

aletheia:
But I have some reservation concerning. . .

The word "Lucifer" means lightbearer and is in keeping with the meaning of Isaiah 14:12 where the word translated "Lucifer" is: H1966  heylel  hay-lale' from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--lucifer. see HEBREW for H1984 (H1966, StrongsHebrew); however in Zechariah 11:2, the word translated "howl" is  H3213  yalal  yaw-lal' a primitive root; to howl (with a wailing tone) or yell (with a boisterous one):--(make to) howl, be howling. (H3213, StrongsHebrew).
Similar words but different in meaning.

I guess you are using Strong's concordance to present the above?
From e-sword right?

But Strong's presentation of Hebrew is according to kjv; isn't it?
have you tried getting another hebrew bible to check these things out?

Look at how Strong presented howl in Zechariah 11:2 below -

ילל
which is  yâlal and means what you explained it to mean above.

But look at how another hebrew bible presented howl in Zechariah 11:2 below -

הילל
which is hêylêl which is a form of yâlal and does not mean what Strong said it means.

Compare the full verse in hebrew from strong and another hebrew presentation below:

Strong
Zechariah 11:2

ילל בּרושׁ כּי ארז נפל אשׁר אדּיר שׁדד ילל אלּון בּשׁן כּי יער בּצור ירד

Hebrew Old Testament
Zechariah 11:2

הילל ברושׁ כי־נפל ארז אשׁר אדרים שׁדדו הילילו אלוני בשׁן כי ירד יער הבצור׃

Remember,read from right to left. See how differently the two presented howl at the beginning of the verse?
Strong used  yâlal  but the hebrew old testament used  hêylêl.

How do you think it would look or sound if we placed Lucifer in Zechariah 11:2 ?

Check other verses where howl appeared with a hebrew bible(not strong's) and you'll see the word hêylêl or words using it as a root to present howl.

Eg.
Jeremiah 51:8

פתאם נפלה בבל ותשׁבר הילילו עליה קחו צרי למכאובה אולי תרפא׃

or Joel 1:11

הבישׁו אכרים הילילו כרמים על־חטה ועל־שׂערה כי אבד קציר שׂדה׃

They used a form of hêylêl to represent howl.

Remember,  hêylêl is presented as הילל

Compare it with the other forms of howl in the above verses; הילילו
just like the second howl in Zechariah 11:2.

seyibrown:
The main message in the original post is to command one's morning. It is of benefit to anybody who does just that that.

Rubbish!
You can't command anything.
You can simply and only pray to God and hope for a good day and trust that his will for that day would favor you.

The word 'Lucifer' found in the king James version is an addition or stranger or foreigner to the word of God.
It was never there in the original manuscripts.
It got in there due to wrong activities during translations into the latin vulgate; which was used to create the KJV.

Isaiah 14:12(Hebrew Old testament)
איך נפלת משׁמים הילל בן־שׁחר נגדעת לארץ חולשׁ על־גוים׃

Zechariah 11:2(Hebrew Old testament)
הילל ברושׁ כי־נפל ארז אשׁר אדרים שׁדדו הילילו אלוני בשׁן כי ירד יער הבצור׃

N/B: Read hebrew from right to left.

Note the word in Isaiah 14:12 which; according to kjv represents Lucifer,  הילל
It is the same word in Zechariah 11:2 which stands for "howl", which is a verb.
How that word became Lucifer(which is a latin word by the way) and a noun, is really surprising.

The correct translation of Isaiah 14:12 is below:
(CLOT)
"How you have fallen from the heavens! Howl, son of the dawn! You are hacked down to the earth, defeater of all nations"

which works perfectly with how the word was used in Zechariah 11:2 -

"Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down."

So, Lucifer is a stranger to the bible. It has never been the name of Satan.
The proper meaning of the term "Lucifer" is in reference to Christ as pointed out by Pastor AIO.