₦airaland Forum

It's not hard.

As noted every situation is unique. But what is the same is that every couple should be transparent about their future plans and ambitions beforehand, agree and crystalise (or end it there) a unified whole for their union, and then enter into marriage with the readiness to sacrifice and be flexible if need be.

**closes thread**


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cococandy:

My point is that if it's a free for all,it wil be hard to keep on track. So, the First 6 volunteers - or however many it's decided the panel should consist of - will take the case.

...lets see how it goes.


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Busybody2:
There are many posters in this section whose sole existence & validation is living for the pats they get on the back, so it should be a free for all thingy...

cococandy:
I'm with him.
Why should there be a set of formal advisers?that's basically saying everyone else is shut out from trying to help.
Besides even the best of advisers on this forum have their 'not so good' days.
Same as the trolls have their amazingly sensible days.
If the couple can't sift chaff from wheat?
Tough luck I say.

I meant a different panel of how ever many for each individual issue.

If it's open season for contributions, how is it any different from what normally obtains?


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maclatunji:
I am actually not thinking of having a formal set of advisers. I am hoping that bad advisers will get shamed into silence by reactions to their posts. I am neck-deep in too many formal arrangements and with this idea I am not even going to try to make anything formal.

Be prepared for derailments, threads to mutate all over the place and large servings of beef - you have bben warned - no order = chaos!


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cococandy:
How many folks have spouses on NL?
And where they already aren't, how many will agree to become members just because they want to be heard too.
I don't see an arrogant person who abuses their partner having the humility to answer the summons of the other person on a public forum to air their side of the story.


But...
It is still worth the try

Volunteer jo...you have a good head on you.


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maclatunji:
I meant complaining spouses not you as an individual.

Gotcha! Apologies, I misunderstood. Thought so.

Let see how it goes - perhaps you should constitute a number of diverse Panels to handle any issues.

Of the Marrieds, I'd suggest one panel as follows;


You can mix it up if you need specific /tailored input


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maclatunji:
^{Na u sabi, I love carrying out social experiments} Anything worth doing at all is worth doing well. If you are going to complain, do so with a view to finding genuine solutions is what I say.

I didn't complain - in fact I thought it was a great idea and offered what I thought was an improvement! And I may even consider being part of an appropriately selcted panel for select issues.

freshdude2:
True. But gbeborunism, even if passive, is essential for sanity.

Abi? Comfort Mac in his unease - no man wants even the merest suggestion that he may be a tatafo !

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maclatunji:
What do you all think?

Good or bad idea?

It could well turn out to be a great idea/resource.
You may have to selct panels for each unique issue to stop things being dragged allover the place.


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^{**it does sound a bit "gbeborun'ish" sha !**}

aisha2:
I may be speaking to myself

You are right.

aisha2:
but if you have some issue with me please state it and get it off your chest

You are wrong. The issue of getting crabby when challenged is yours not mine .

aisha2:
Following me round making condescending statements is just sad. If it fills in a viod in your life then goodluck and enjoy

Following you around ? I don't think I've responded to you for months - are you attention starved !

Like I said, leave it.


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pickabeau1:
City are clueless in Europe
They are local champs who dont have a clue

Kompany is now blaming the fact that they had no fans to support them

The more reason they should be in the 2nd or 3rd pot

Unfortunately, they will benefit from the new seeding system where league champs will be in pot 1

I pity Wenger

To be honest I wasn't aware of the "potting" style seeding. Anyhows they were dull. Bayern were quite chilling., Wasn;t it Roma that held City last time out?

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aisha2:
No need for this fishing. " Rights" in the context i was clearly stating means that in issues like this spouses agree to disagree and compromise not just stand on what they think they deserve and hold on extremely. Everything that may seem like a problem in marriage can be worked out with proper communication and understanding.
No rights here as i earlier explained means even when you think the name you want is better and your " right" you and your spouse can sit and talk maybe your spouse may want the name based on sentimental reasons eg a grandma who raised them and had a lot of positive influence on them while growing up

I.am talking about sane marriages between sane spouses who know what marriage and compromise means and not those who see it as some sort of competition and power trip.

Quite garbled.
It's not about marriage - and your points on marriage were off-point.

Leave it.


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mojeer678:
Really?

The intellectual level of folks on NL is indeed worrisome, OP and commenters alike.

Are women fowls? Laying eggs like poultry?

The correct and accurate term is oocyte.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oocyte?s=t
http://www.webmd.boots.com/menopause/guide/premature-menopause

Professor, we welcome your gargantuan intellect and look forward to many years of enlightenment !

Help yourself to lipstick or nuts as appropriate !


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aisha2:
There are no rights in marriage. These are things you discuss and agree on before you marry.

So sweeping and emphatic, albeit a totally wrong statement? Apart from the fact that OP wasn't referring to marriage per se, marriage is exactly about rights. It fomalises the rights and responsibilities of the couple towards one another.

aisha2:
You have no rights in marriage, your right stops where your partners right starts. What happens in marriage is fairness, compromise and understanding and mutual respect and not who has rights or not

And repeated for good measure?

If there are no rights in marriage, then what distinguishes a married couple from a non-married couple?


OP, the couple are free to embrace the dictates of the faith or traditions, forge their own path or reach a compromise.


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vivalableue:
Ex: I live in a bilingual city where the majority speaks French. Daddy and I are both fully bilingual, but speak English. So, for the success of the kids were decided they would be better in a French school whilst learning English at home. No problem right? Wrong! I saw far my oldest was experiencing done speech delays and stuttering... At the pre-kindergarten level I enrolled him in a bilingual English school... Dad was livid, he expected our son to follow the program we put him in. But, I insisted that he stay in the school. Time goes on and, not to mine but dad's surprise, they started giving him speech therapy. His language improved,and to my delight he began conversing in French to strangers on the street (bus drivers, cashiers etc)...

So although his father felt like his decision was being usurped, he trusted me to make the right choice, and had my back. We now feel confident that once our younger one will begin school, both can start at the French ones with no difficulties.

Bolded 2 - He was usurped as you noted in Bolded 1.

There is a head in your home - it's you Congrats !

As I have always stated, feminists aren't after "egalitarianism". Simply becuase no such thing exists in the human dynamic. They ultimately want the headship mantle.

Women do not love and respect men they can ride - even if they stay together.



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Mintayo:
Wish i could give this more than one likes!

Graciás

swaggzo:
you may have my username and password.
At least that makes it two.

Not sarcastic, not funny. Are you high on panty fumes !


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vivalableue:
If you are keen in knowing my POV... Here it is; in my family you contribute to its success by using your strengths to uphold others weaknesses. For example, the Daddy is a chef, so naturally he cooks most of the meals. I love to build and I'm an IT professional, so I make sure everything is in running order when it comes to that. He's a morning person so he brings the kids to daycare/school in the morning, I finish work with energy so I take the kids top the park in the afternoons. He's better with lists, so he organizes the shopping and trips. I have a better grasp of numbers, so I calculate savings and bills. We both take care of the kids and discipline them in 1 voice regardless of who takes charge in that instance. He doesn't need my cowering myself to feel like a man, because he knows that we appreciate whatever he does for the family. I don't emasculate him for watching the food channel, he doesn't make fun of me for being obsessed with every Tech convention. The kids are allowed to discover their God given talents without feeling the pressure of "not for girls/boys" stigma. So Ya... That's our family unit.

So because you both work to your strenghts - which makes absolute sense - there is no head? Or your husband is not head as you also make decisions, bear responsibility and take charge of certain things?

destante:
the way I see it, the head of the home are the directors of the home. And it would be difficult to alienate either the man or the woman from it. While the man is a symbolic head, he is also by responsibility the director of the house alongside the wife. The way they carry out such role is just different. I believe if any bad decision gets made, the buck won't stop with the man alone, the wife will share too. So the man and the woman are both "heads" of a family

The man is the "symbolic head" and yet they are both heads? So, if accountability and responsibility can be assigned to both, both must be heads - although one symbollically !

zeb04:
If there is a decision to make,the one who is more knowledgeable in that aspect makes the final say.. at least that's the way it is where am from.

And if the most knowledgeable makes the decision - and I agree that makes absolute sense - why does that have anything to do with headship?
Or put another way, does making decisions imply headship or ultimate responsibility?

donroxy:
The Op is an Opportunist not a feminist .....

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/02/mj-laughing.gif


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amokeme:
Marriage scares me...

It shouldn't. Start by learning about what it is and for. Then understand the expectations and character pre-requisites for a fulfilling union.

Best
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Holá Men,

Watched the CL highlights yesterday – was back really late and had supper in front of the telly. Bayern were looking very machinelike – in a Terminator sort of way.

Chelsea looked formidable – even if against relatively lightweight opposition. And whats with City? Totally nervy and swagless in Europe. Alarmingly beta?


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SirShymex:
Well, I honestly don't think there's a contradiction in my post. Relationships/marriages should be more of a partnership/teamsport, with assigned roles for everyone involved - and a team-leader/captain - without anyone being submissive.

There is a contradiction. I pointed it out the first time and you've repeated it here. Without answering my charge. Why is there a need for a leader if there is no "submission"?

SirShymex:
And in the case of relationships/marriages, men are naturally the leaders due to their innate temperament - and effectively being raised consciously/subconsciously by the society and whatever family set-up they came out from to always take the lead/initiative.

...and yet more on leaders - what do leaders do? What are leaders for??

SirShymex:
Once you start asking for submissiveness, then you've effectively made yourself infallible. And more like a God-like figure, who can never do no wrong. However, it takes two to tango, and you need the other party to always get involved, for ideas sharing. While still maintaing your different roles within the set-up. Submissiveness takes that away completely and, creates a docile robotic-figure. And the inertia is going to delegate more responsibilities to you as a leader.

I have to assume you read my post before writing this - but just in case;

TV01:
Submission does not mean silence. It means full dialogue and agreement - and where agreement cannot be reached, the buck has to stop with someone - Dadddddyyyyy !

SirShymex:
The three biggest qualities of a good leader are: listening skills, open-mindedness, and sensitivity to other people's ideas. So, when you ask for submissiveness, while in effect making yourself an infallible God-like figure - then you have negated those qualities.

First, in light of how I defined submission, none of this makes much sense.
Second, when you are in the crucible of marriage you will realise the biggest quality required from a leader is to actually lead.
Third, when shots have to be called and decisions made, or in a crises, start being all "sensitive" and see how your spouse takes it !

SirShymex:
The word "submissiveness" itself is medieval, and you can never run a partnership, team, and/or team-sport with that. Let me use team sport to buttress my point: in team sports, you can only be submissive to the coach - not team-captain. With the team-captain, you share ideas. So, are you taking the leadership position of the team coach, or the team-captain? If you want the role of the team coach - then you've to re-apply and become your partner's father. However, if your position is synonymous with that of the team-captain, which is what it should be - then you honestly can't ask for submissiveness.

Your incorrect interpretation of submission apart, I like the sports metaphors. Having both boxed and played team sports. So again, in a pinch or a clutch situation, after a huddle - or before one - what does a captain do.

SirShymex:
Anyway, I've always been the de-facto lead in all my relationships, as the male figure. However, I've never asked anyone to be submissive to me. It's always about sharing ideas, delegating roles, and me taking the initiative after effective communication/discussion with my partner. Before doing anything, it's my responsibility to ask her about what she thinks. And that's something you can't do with a submissive figure.

Presumably she "acquiesced" to your taking the initiative or did you ask permission for that !

Please stop it.

Even if the feminist push appears to be for equality, it never is. Relationships can be quite egalitarian, but there is always a power dynamic and a natural division along gender lines - even in SS relationships.

And as a man, the male/female dynamic suggests you are on shakey ground if you don't take charge. Even the crypto-feminists are wired to respond to status and leadership qualities in men.

The ones shouting for death to gender roles either don't have men or are paired with betas ! Why don't you ask them?


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coogar:
TV01, na she be that?

Na I'm 0!
Totally submissive, young and nubile - eggs fertilised - in fact, I may have to make an appearance in the expectant fathers thread !


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carefreewannabe:
Nobody has seen any pics.

Keep pretending

...can I get a witness !


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coogar:
you used to be bubbly & graceful - what happened to you? did you suffer a monumental heartbreak

It's called "hitting the wall". Many women can't deal with it. And they hate to hear the truth about it. They simply wake up one morning and realise that their value as a spouse is plummetting like the DOW on Black Monday - it can be a sickening realisation.

Probably not helped by seeing the pic of my wife - frozen eggs don't make you more attractive.

We continue to warn them


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carefreewannabe:
If I was as ugly as the woman you quoted, I would also blame nature.

Yeah, avoid the words of a prophet of your religion

carefreewannabe:
TV, a 40+ man who pretends to be posting pics of his wife to help defend his bruised ego.

I knew you saw the pic....made you green with envy huh? It figures, since then you've been so foul mouthed. Like you said, blame nature !

carefreewannabe:
40 + man behaving like a teenager.

I checked with all my "large age-gap" peers - funny what a nubile young woman by your side does for your well-being and energy levels.


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carefreewannabe:
I swear, I want to marry myself.

Then, unfreeze two eggs and mix - please come back and tell us whether you end up with an omelette or a baby !

You are seriously struggling and on the edge.


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The generational dissonance is due to a number of things.

The older generation of women tended to be submissive - and to the extreme - without anything - or even ill-treatment - in return. The current generation typically want to be at least "equal" in authority, blur the lines between roles and responsiblilty and some believe earning power should be a key determinant of "leadership".

Both are recipes for relatively unhappy or broken marriages.

Submission does not mean silence. It means full dialogue and agreement - and where agreement cannot be reached, the buck has to stop with someone - Dadddddyyyyy !

I mostly give leave to what my wife wants, but if there's ever an impasse, I make the call - and take full responsibility.

SirShymex:
Rather than say "submissive" using "compromise"/"understanding" would be better. Once you start asking women to be submissive in today's world, then it sounds more like asking them to be slaves. Men don't need slaves - we just need women to understand their unique role(s) in the family, and be able to compromise.
The role of women folks is to be the helper, and the housekeeper, without necessarily being submissive. While male folks are the provider, and patron/chaperone of the family. Both parties just need to learn how to perform their roles better, and effectively.
Personally, I don't want a submissive woman. I want someone who can be a helper and a good mother to my kids. A housekeeper. Someone to challenge and stimulate me mentally, while still respecting me for being the head/patron of the family. And most definitely a good cook.

Have you ever been in a relationship that did not have a de facto lead - other than an extremely casual one? Even homosexual relationships display a power dynamic.

You contradict yourself in the bolded - if there is no submission, why is there need for a head?.


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carefreewannabe:
If you had been week educated in a sane country like I, you would have been able to check that his sources are older than mine.

Ignoramus.

I never said anything about source. Coogars point was the control basis.

It's only Tuesday and you are already having a bad weekend !


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coogar:
yes, we are discussing how much effect do older dads have on birth defects. there are other variables that weren't looked into in the older studies.

•the maternal age of the partner of the older dad
•prenatal care initiation,
•maternal smoking
•drugs during pregnancy.
•alcohol drinking during pregnancy

all these factors were not put into consideration in the older studies. they just plated statistics on the kids with the birth defects and the age of the dads.....they even ignored the age of the mothers. how's that accurate enough?



yes, they ignored it....according to this research.


There has been a long-running debate about the association between paternal age and birth defects. Some studies have failed to adequately control for maternal age, and have suffered from high levels of missing paternal age, raising concerns over selection bias.

This paper analyzes an anonymously case-controlled dataset with 98% complete parental age data, originally collected to investigate the association between parental exposure to birth defects.

In our methods the cases and controls were matched on maternal age to within 6 months, and conditional logistic regression was used to estimate the odds ratio associated with a 10-year increase in paternal age.

Our results showed the estimated odds ratio for a birth defect pregnancy associated with a 10-year increase in paternal age was 1.13, 95%CI (0.85, 1.52). There was no statistically significant evidence of an association between paternal age and birth defects, but the estimated association was positive. The size of the estimated effect is considerably smaller than the effect of maternal age.

If Coogars point above are true - essentially earlier studies did not control for other variables apart from Paternal age, then the onus is on CareFreeWannabe to produce some that do.

It's likely - especially in the West, where men are typically shamed into marrying older women - that older father simply meant older mothers.

Please, do quick - this is getting interesting, I may have to revise my estimate of the male window


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coogar:
you must have been born spiritually blind.

[img]http://igniss.blog.hr/slike/l/autizam_sizofrenija_i_dijabetes_s_muskom_dobi.png[/img]

on the graph says A S D(red line)

a = autism
s = schizophrenia
d = diabetes



this is the research results....


BACKGROUND: Although the association between maternal age and the risks of birth defects has been well studied, the evidence from population data linking paternal age with birth defects was limited and inconsistent.

METHODS: We conducted a population-based retrospective cohort study of 5,213,248 subjects from the 1999-2000 birth registration data of the USA. Multiple logistic regressions were used to estimate the independent effect of paternal age on all birth defects and 21 specific defects groups after adjusting for potential confounding of maternal age, race, education, marital status, parity, prenatal care initiation, maternal smoking and alcohol drinking during pregnancy.

RESULTS: A total of 77,514 (1.5%) birth defects were recorded in the study cohort. The adjusted odds ratios were 1.04 (1.01, 1.06), 1.08 (1.04, 1.12), 1.08 (1.02, 1.14) and 1.15 (1.06, 1.24), respectively, for infants born to fathers 30-35, 40-44, 45-49 and over 50 years (test for trend, P = 0.0155),

when compared with those infants born to fathers aged 25-29 for any birth defect. Advanced paternal age was associated with increased risks of heart defects, tracheo-oesophageal fistulaoesophageal atresia, other musculoskeletal/integumental anomalies, Down's syndrome and other chromosomal anomalies.

Fathers under 25 years of age were also at increased risks of spina bifida/meningocele, microcephalus, omphalocele/gastroschisis and other musculoskeletal/integumental anomalies.

CONCLUSIONS: Infants born to older fathers have a slightly increased risk of birth defects. Young paternal age is also associated with slightly increased risk of several selected birth defects in their offspring. However, given the weak association, paternal age appears to play a small role in the aetiology of birth defects.

Hmmm...

Although this study sounds plausible, I don't think I can objectively write of all the other studies. Even the last two links Carefreewannabee posted (not the Daily Mail ones), seemed scientifically conclusive that age was a factor in male fertility a lá sperm quality.

Maybe we should be looking for something more recent? Althpugh there seems to be a body of evidence to support age related deterioration in men - or are we quibbling over how much, not if?


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coogar:
there's little or no truth in the biological clock of men. several other researches have proven there's no significant risk of down syndrome in men older age unlike the women. a woman's biological clock ticks 1,000 times faster than that of men.

[img]http://igniss.blog.hr/slike/l/autizam_sizofrenija_i_dijabetes_s_muskom_dobi.png[/img]

look at the red line(men) and black line(women). whose is worse?? there are hundreds of researches on the internet & in the cases where autism or down syndrome was found with older men, it was because the older men married older women.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12771769/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6220960/?i=4&from=/19449414/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19449414/?i=8&from=/12771769/related

I don't agree with the bolded.

There is a biological clock for men - even if it's only in terms of the quality of their sperm. Although I see your point in terms of an absolute ability to procreate.

I'd also agree that a mans clock (and thus window) is slightly more favourable and probably more amenable to lifestyle change enhancements.
And as noted, a couple with two older partners has even more risks and potentiual issues along the procreation chain.


TV

I wasn't arguing for or against. I plainly stated I hadn't been aware of that fact?

cococandy:
lol. I meant I wasn't arguing against your point that older men have a bigger window of opportunity.

I wasn't making that point. Just that both males and females have windows, and we should be aware and aim for as close an overlap as possible for best results

Which is the point I made, older woman - yonger man couples are relatively few??

cococandy:
and I agreed with you.

Ok

The fact that "eggs" are not "aged" as such and sperm are, is not the whole story in procreation.

cococandy:
almost the whole. But not the whole story

Not if you consider fertility, conception, gestation and delivery. There are potential risks and problems at every stage.

As per my post above, age in women is about capability/fertility, in men it seems to be more about quality

cococandy:
agreed to an extent. Asides from fertility issues women generally get better with age too. personality wise. Everyone does. Life humbles us all.

"Better with age" probably comes to bear on nurture as opposed to procreation. And older fathers usually possess the exact same age related improvements as older mothers.


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