₦airaland Forum

carefreewannabe: A lengthy speech that still has not answered my question.

Not only was your question answered, it was actually quite pointless. Dry yourself off and read the thread from the beginning .


TV

freshdude2: True true true, especially the bolded. Women keep telling themselves money isn't really a factor when choosing a mate but the facts tell a different story. It is in fact, the most important element in the check list.

For "most women" the provisioning ability is paramount. That mostly translates into cash money. It's why many have no compunction about going with yahoo-yahoo boys.

Where money is not a consideration (or they are just fantasizing - as many do ) other "manly" traits become paramount. That is why women will go ga-ga over a good looking criminal;
http://blackamericaweb.com/2014/06/20/model-prisoners-good-looking-mug-shots-go-viral-in-california-photos/

Woman don't dream of degree-educated, well-mannered corporate accountants with well paying jobs. Unfortunately they have to marry them

Once you know a womans triggers - even femisistas - , they are as easy as abc to figure out.


TV

carefreewannabe: This statement implicates that MOST women do not have s. e. x for fun's sake but to achieve something.

Presumaly at some point you'll get to your ideological point of women having sex when they like and with whom the please. Don't worry, I'm not about to slut-shame you . As ever I absolutely accept that you have every right to your beliefs.

The discussion here was about intimate in/compatibility within marriage. It morphed to discuss the things to look for and motivations before marriage and touched heavily on why libido may vary within marriage. My aggregate posts on this thread imply no such thing, the fact you chose to read that into it is a consequence of your muddled ideology and attempt to prove your bona fides .

I have said nothing to suggest I don't think women (1) do not enjoy sex or (2) do not/cannot have sex purely for pleasure. What we have been touching on is the motivation and libido for women about to marry or that are married.

When a couple are merely slutting together, I'd imagine it's all about pleasure. When a womans mind turns to marriage and children (our context here), other motivations creep in and colour the reasons for sex. Your wor-wor ideology may well tell you that women have sex for the exact same reasons as men and should approach it just like men do - please, feel free to knock yourself out!

Just as you previously demonstrated your inability to grasp the concept of matriarchy and made a specatacle of yourself , you have charged in once more to demonstrate your porous thinking; so because we mention that a women may have certain motivations for intimacy it implies we mean she doesn't or can't enjoy it?

carefreewannabe: And you were trying to prove the point by saying that s. e. x decreases after a woman has attained "the end" because she didn't have s.ex for the fun of it, which LOGICALLY implicates that a woman does not enjoy se. x so much.

Nope, I clearly stated that libido varies during a marriage for both couples and for different reasons. Noting that there are obvious and well documented reasons for women to experience this - and typically more reasons than men. I nowhere claimed it's not fun or pleasurable for women just cliamed that there are other motivators before and various other considerations after.

I was very clear that intimacy can still reach dizzying heights but the dynamics of marriage and life itself meant that it proabably wouldn''t be as frequent and take more work. I also asked for married women - especially those with chiuldren - to come and testify.

And a note for men here re the bolded: if a woman marries you out of desperation, merely for what you have, or as a last resort, you will typically not be the picture of the man she feels she deserves. This can seriously affect her real degree of attraction towards you (even if she's like a rabbit pre-marriage), and hence her desire to be intimate when the knot is tied. At the extremes, it can be a trigger for her infidelity. Please choose wisely. 'Nuff said.


Keep bringing it Carefreewannabe - I'm always willing to deliver a good rinsing !


TV

5minsmadness: As usual you don't read a post completely before giving a reply. What was my 12th point for the women?

Leave CFW, as ever, she jumps into a thread and posts absent context and driven by the blind leading of her bogus ideology.

5minsmadness: And yes we do pay for it cos its more of an end for us while you take the money cos its a means to an end for you.

No one stated or insinuated that sex is not pleasurable for both men and women or that men and women do not have libidos or that it cannot be enjoyed for it's own sake. That can be taken as read. The point is that there is an overarching biological imperative and also that women often have ulterior motives; as evidenced below;

cococandy: It only helps me get several benefits from something I equally enjoyed and still get off to acting like I did you a favor

TV

freshdude2: Right on the money mahn. Fell into a funk with the missus. And a getaway was all it took to restore equilibrium. Needless to say, any man who wants to enjoy his marriage and family and run them optimally should have a shitload of money.

Absolutely.
Money (i.e. provision) is an "Alpha" trait that women look for and appreciate in men.

Forget all this talk of equality, where money is a consideration for women (and it is for most), they will have trouble truly feeling a man that can't come up with the goods and make it work for them - even where his financial contribution is greater than hers. And more so where her contribution is greater than his.

Wise use of money can alleviate many issues and keep the woman in the "he's a man" thinking zone. Important in keeping her attraction high.


TV

Givemejoy: Do you think people are born naturally evil or naturally good? Do share your thoughts.

People are born with a natural inclination to evil. That's why we have to be socialised to demonstrate restraint and understand what is, and what is not acceptable behaviour. Most people can abide by "the rules" for the most part, but that's really only because we discriminate between types and level of evil. At the edges we have psychopath and sociopaths, but they are just extreme cases of what most people are.

Most Christians see this a the "sin nature". It is present in all and evident in most. People may demonstrate impulse control or no tbe particularly inclined towards certain ill-behaviours, but the capacity is there. Only grace can enable you to understand it, resist it and ultimately overcome it.


TV

carefreewannabe: Most women don't enjoy it. They only do it to get married and have kids. This is what TV taught me / us.

carefreewannabe: us, are you one of those women who don't enjoy s. e. x? Coogar and TV say that MOST women don't enjoy it at all.

Before I return to show you how ideologically confused you are. Could you please show me where I said or insinuated that "most women don't enjoy sex" - or indeed, that women don't sometimes have sex purely for pleasure.


TV

5minsmadness: From my experience and those of my friends, women have sex to:
1. Keep thier partner
2. Keep the relationship going
3. Get money(generally)
4. Get favours
5. Get connections
6. Get favoured in interviews(you'd be surprised how many women make the first move)
7. Get money(for school fees, handouts, exam passes)
8. Find out if they are fertile
9. In love
10.Get pregnant
11.Satisfy the man even though they don't want to have the sex.
12. Enjoy it.
13. Take revenge on thier boyfriend.

From my experience and those of my friends and associates, men have sex:
1. Because they enjoy it.
2. Because they enjoy it.
3.To find out if they are fertile. Again and again and again.
4. Because they want money from their sugar mummies- and they enjoy it.
5. ummmmm
6. Because they enjoy it!

Loads of reasons of why women do and do not have sex. And you have captured some of the do's. However, do remember the "Pre-marriage" context of our conversation. Having said that, men do have "revenge sex". And would probably have more if they had the opportunity .


TV

femixyz: Who changes after marriage, is it the Husband or the Wife? justify.

Both!
The key is in managing change. Anticipating it and dealing with it's consequences.


TV

carefreewannabe: Thank you for your advice.

You are welcome. No need to thank me I love flourishing families and right expectations go a long way to help that .

carefreewannabe: I don't know most women but unlike you I am a woman.

Again, this means nothing, as you can only speak for yourself - at best - or what you know/believe about woman. Your being a woman does not in itself affirm your take, or make it any more valid.

carefreewannabe: Whatever, se.x is NOT first and foremost a means to an end for most women.

Typically the end for most women is a family. Children and a husband who provides.

A brief answer. Please counter it with one of your own. Aspersions alone won't do. Please try and avoid equivocation

carefreewannabe: I will, even though you should FIRST back up the MOST in your statement. Anyway, before I do so, tell me what the end is for most women that s. e. x gets them to.

As above. Feel free to counter

carefreewannabe: I know you don't but I will not ignore people who act like female experts on a public forum but AT THE SAME TIME make terribly wrong statements. You can impress some certain people with your choice of words but not me.

I never claimed to be an expert. If you have a different take or superior position, please state it. I'm not out to impress. You know my official role and title on NL ! Healthy & Happy Families. NL' foremost Marriage advocate. Your feminist leaning are writ large. Any others?

carefreewannabe: So TV, what is the end that women try to achieve by having s. e. x?

Already. Women rarely have sex as an end in itself. Apart from the obvious biological imperatives, womens reasons for intimate encounters with men are usually manifold - however they are presented.


TV

Stillfire: Haaa, TV?.?.?.?

Men typically marry younger wives. For one reason; they are essentially marrying fertility (even if it's wrapped up in youth and beauty). A man always feels good with a relatively young, fit and good lokking woman on his arm. Childbirth alone can add 10 years to a woman.

The old rubric of "half your age plus 7 years" is a pretty good one. And the older a man gets the wider the gap. Only men who marry really young are likely to marry close to their age range. And I always think that men should be a little mature/established first. Starting from 30'ish is good.

But like I said, I am not being prescriptive and don't overlook exceptions. It worked for me. And many of the men around me have similar or even wider gaps (especially for oyinbo wives ).


TV

5minsmadness:


Bad idea bro trust me on this

I agree !

Abi you want to be dragging shaving stick?


TV

coogar: i wish all the nigerian ladies have this kinda mentality but na lie. eba & ewedu have eroded the sex drive of the majority of them.

The truth is, the failings of "Nigerian ladies" are for the most part the same as those afflicting most others. Although it must be said some are exponetially worse in some regards. Diet and exercise are two such areas.

Never mind, just find exceptions to the rule. You only want the one. Know exactly what you want and refuse to settle for less. But be realistic, no uninterrupted supersonic cruising at 38'000 feet !


TV

carefreewannabe: If and when.

And if you do, unless you are innured from the common things that come upon married couples, prepare yourself !

carefreewannabe: Until then I will contradict statements like this one:

Contradict is not the same as disprove.

carefreewannabe: You are not a woman and you don't know most women. And the fact that MANY women have a lower libido after giving birth has different reasons.

You are a woman and you don't know most women either. Your point being?

And whatever the reason for some women having lower libido after birth, the fact remains that many have it. You still have not disproved it.

And it's but one of the many reasons why libido may drop in women. Along with those for causing a drop in men

carefreewannabe: I am quite sensitive when it comes to generalisations of this kind.

Why? Simply debunk them if they are wrong. Otherwise your "sensitivity" avails nothing.

carefreewannabe: Never mind.

Honestly, I don't .


TV

carefreewannabe: TV, are you talking about your wife and marriage?

Yes to a degree. And yours too when you finally get there !

TV

^{**he said to me...he said; "there are some things I wish l knew about before marriage", to which l replied "there are some things you can't know about until you are married"** ...do quick CFW}

As NL’ chief marriage advocate, I’d be remiss in not responding to this thread .

I’ll try and respond under headings as opposed to individuals, apologies if I miss anything or do not address your particular concern;

1. Wrong Partner – First, make yourself the right partner. Ensure you have a full grasp of what marriage entails in your personal worldview. Find someone whom you fancy like mad and who shares that same worldview. Your worldview could be faith or ideologically driven.

2. Changing Spouse - Character is what you are really after in a partner. That is why you first need to be mature yourself - so that you are of sound character and can recognise AND appreciate it in others. The AND is very important, as it means you appreciate character over more fleeting qualities.

3. Infidelity – If it’s key to your grasp of marriage, 1 and 2 above should ensure it is likewise to your partners.

4. Romance dying – In part this is a continuation of 3. Like a flame the romance alive. It needs stoking. Make an effort. Keep yourself fit, healthy and well-groomed.

5. S3xual incompatibility. I wrote about this here; https://www.nairaland.com/1845744/intimate-incompatibility-marriage#25285259 - but please be committed to working together to achieve mutual satisfaction and being willing to talk about it. It may mean “putting out” for the other at times, but it is certainly worth it and it will be appreciated.

6. Child-bearing effects – yes a tricky one. I wondered about this. Not thinking myself better than your average Joe, I did wonder “if many men cheat at this stage”, why would I be any different? I loved my wife more after the birth of our first child. But our worldview means we pray to be more loving, faithful and harmonious all the time. What does your worldview say? (I also married a woman that was rightly curved and endowed, but a little thinner than perfect, leaving “growth allowance” )

7. Losing Freedom & Control – marry understanding that two become one, with God, your life is not your own, with a spouse, neither is your body. Look forward to the joy of mutual endeavour and the sense of security & being needed (not needy) that having someone who is always concerned about your wellbeing and welfare – as their priority – brings. Sweet accountability.

8. Homosexual child - Short of trauma or a high degree of homosexual socialisation, this is highly unlikely to happen. 75% of teenagers that express SSA are free of it by the time they reach 24. My worldview says pray for your kids and demonstrate masculinity and femininity to them within a strong marriage. Don't invite it into your home by implicitly or explicitly endorsing it.

9. Divorce - This has nothing to do with marriage. Like darkness and light, like life and death. Marry, well, marry with understanding, marry with commitment and it’s actually quite unlikely. The stats mostly reflect those who marry for the wrong reasons.

10. Death of a spouse – The thought of this brings me out in a cold sweat. I’ve learnt to continually submit this to My Lord. May He establish that which he blessed me with. Maybe it would help us all to love them as though each day might be our last together?

Happy hunting, be sure to enjoy your courtships. I still go through my wedding album - one of the best days of my life - even though I played second fiddle .

May your marriages be established and blessings unto generations to come.


The uxorious TV

5minsmadness: Reading about the "female imperative" for the first time. Makes a lot of sense.

Women are not hard to understand. The key is not asking women what women want. They'll tell you what they think you want to hear or what they believe will make them sound good.


TV

freshdude2: TV, is it too late to make you my son's godfather?

I'm honoured.

May your sons honour you and do your house proud.

TV

coconuthead: Dear family members,

My wife is 32 weeks pregy. I'd like mothers in house to advise what to do to assist her. Apart from the household chores, what else can a man do to assist his heavy woman. She doesn't sleep well @ night, turning here and there and sometimes, mood swings too. Pls advise cos I want her to be happy.

cocodome, please tell us that you are not just thinking about this at 32 weeks? Damn bro' you are Alpha! Whatever you so, be sure not to over-indulge her 0! Not that I need tell you that !

Salute

TV

"Initially it seemed a disaster when my husband was called away on business and was unable to join us on our much-anticipated trip aboard..."

Learner. She fell for this?


TV

^{Mariella Frostrup - a husky voice when younger. Not fit or fine! Feminist and naturally gifted c.blocker of course your husbnand is safe with her. He'll prolly appreciate you more after being with her}

...the thought of not being with my wife brings me out in a cold sweat.


TV

^{**oh Lord my God**}

5minsmadness: Like what pls?

I think I've mentioned pretty much all in my response to coogar.


TV

coogar: it must get better till the end of time o!

Very unlikely. Women are much more "fragile", are more easily subject to "mood driven desire" and don't have a pure "sex imperative" like men.

The vagaries of marriage and life generally mean they have a less desire, less consistent desire and more frequent dips. They have less testosterone, are more prone to illness, suffer through childbirth and are more likely to have reproductive illnesses. Think fibroids, endemetriosis, vagismus, various discharges and sundry ailments.

The flight path I described, most men would be more than able to do live with that, it's mostly the women that mean flying consistently at that altitude is not really likely.

coogar: frigidity can be dealt with? how? where's the time to start taking housewife for sex therapy sessions?

It's a long term deal. Even if not frigidity, you are almost certainly going to encounter some "turbulence ". Many that may affect libido.

coogar: women should shape up then! so what's a man to do then? no wonder marital infidelity is almost inevitable.

Agree about women shaping up, but men have to support them.

And yes, it's absolutely why a lot of fidelity happens. Men have these unrealistic expectations and then look outside when they are not met.

Better set expectations and real commitment would greatly reduce the levels of infidelity. And I can't stress getting a wife that you "fancy die" as well. That helps animate your commitment with motivation.

I think marrying a significantly younger wife helps in a lot of ways. Not least because as the man matures he gets less demanding, more appreciative and more indulgent. Without being prescriptive I think 8 - 12 is good. A gym culture without your propmting is real good as well. Assuming the man is taking good physical care of himself, otherwise it could backfire.

coogar: time to start investing in potent aphrodisiacs to slip in my wife's dinner plate. sex taking a back seat is a no-no! what's the essence of marriage then if what is meant to be freely enjoyed is being rationed?

Aphrodisi wetin? Hmmm...I suppose, but I wouldn't.

And don't marry a player, digga, glorified runs girl, ex sugary mama, feminist...actually, it's prolly easier to say what you should marry !

"A younger woman, from a good home, with strong faith and moral values, who is fit, healthy, well endowed, highly accocmplished and a virgin to boot"

And then Captain, expect a routine flight, but be prepared to manage your flight path.

coogar: that's my expectation and we men should start demanding our expectation from our partners. why should we accept the status quo. women can't continue to frown at polygyny & marital infidelity and still deny their husbands at home.

Male female expectations for sex during the course of a normal marriage will rarely match.

coogar: if a woman feels she can no longer meet her husband's needs then she should be a sarah. she should get extra hands like a maiden for her husband. men are being shortchanged with this arrangement & it's now clear why many men in our generation are shunning marriage.

I said some things can help. Money is one of these. Outsource as much as possible so wifey can focus on hubby. The current culture of both parents working back-breaking hours just to make ends meet does no thelp.

Men are shunning marriage because it's increasingly a bad-deal for them - apart from sex. Most men would still prefer to marry and have a side-chick, than not marry and have a harem of side-chicks.

I am not championing polygamy, side-chicks or runs. Just the right setting of expectations.


TV

MrAnony1: LOLOLOLOL Na wa Oooh. Who let the loonies out of the psych ward?

...and the funniest thing? No male or female on the list !

I feel pressured to adopt one of the 58 listed. Perhaps a cold glass of "gender fluid" whill I mull it over !


TV

Kay17: Let's have your view on the definition of Gender. Whether it is abandoned in the colloquial meaning (biologicAL sex) or social dimension on the sexes.

I believe I have been quite clear in that regard - it's a needless construct at best. Its use is mostly ideological in nature and used to promote dysfunction and deviancy.

But I'm always game for a laugh


The following are the 58 gender options identified by ABC News:

•Agender
•Androgyne
•Androgynous
•Bigender
•Cis
•Cisgender
•Cis Female
•Cis Male
•Cis Man
•Cis Woman
•Cisgender Female
•Cisgender Male
•Cisgender Man
•Cisgender Woman
•Female to Male
•FTM
•Gender Fluid
•Gender Nonconforming
•Gender Questioning
•Gender Variant
•Genderqueer
•Intersex
•Male to Female
•MTF
•Neither
•Neutrois
•Non-binary
•Other
•Pangender
•Trans
•Trans*
•Trans Female
•Trans* Female
•Trans Male
•Trans* Male
•Trans Man
•Trans* Man
•Trans Person
•Trans* Person
•Trans Woman
•Trans* Woman
•Transfeminine
•Transgender
•Transgender Female
•Transgender Male
•Transgender Man
•Transgender Person
•Transgender Woman
•Transmasculine
•Transsexual
•Transsexual Female
•Transsexual Male
•Transsexual Man
•Transsexual Person
•Transsexual Woman
•Two-Spirit


TV

^{plus, don't think you are off the hook re abortion. You've woefully failed to make any semblance of a case on that !}

coogar: haha!
thought so too!

...if anything newlywed 2backbeastin' should get progressively better - for a time...

coogar: but i would be in a much safer place knowing she was once good at it......rather than going ahead with a woman that has never been good at it & expecting miracles to happen after marriage. i would be a hypocrite if i complain about her performance after knowing she has never been up to scratch.

...point! But it's still no guarantee and frigidity can be dealt with...

coogar: hypergamy is an interesting topic. women rarely accept it exists or they try to make you think it was never thought about during their selection process.

...for most women, sex is first and foremost a means to an end. For most men, it is an end in itself. Many women go about their ways instinctively and often are not consciously aware why. It's why you have the "just follow your heart" mantra and it's variants. Seemingly all about feelings , but in truth it's the FI kicking in.

The feminine imperative is largely about getting a man to invest in them and their children. Nesting basically. For the most part sex is secondary, or something to help them secure what they want.

Once a woman has got the man and the children, it takes a lot of desire and effort to keep the urge (and the figure) for sex. In fact where there are competing interests on her time, sex will typically take a back seat.

Ask any of the married women here if sex got more vigourous or frequent after the advent of a child, talkless children. Don't get me wrong, it can still hit the heights and there can still be frenzied bouts.

But it's not like a plane on a 10'000 mile journey, taking off, climbing to 38'000 feet, and then crusing at the altitude until just before landing. Any man that thinks that's how his sex life will play out over the course of his marriage needs an ice dousing and a slap with a wet fish to sharply reset his expectations.

Lots of things can help sha!


TV

baralatie: here you guys get it wrong.test drive does not mean sexual needs met!many complaints come from those who indeed had test drives.intimacy in the marital I statehood.. is a totally different set up. it is not premarital.overture,not a one night stand. what you seek comes attached to a human being who faces other value which affect marital Intimacy and this is what pawns out in many homes

coogar: i don't understand what you are saying....

baralatie: let me make it plain
1.premarital.sex does not mean sexual satisfaction when eventually one gets married.
2.the marital institution sees sex differently.it is not the same way you share intimacy in one night stands,or with girlfriends.
3.the parts used for intimacy are directly connected to a complete person with feelings,values etc and these build pressure.
4.not all imagined fantansies about she.x is wholly considered satisfying by the wives of some husbands.

coogar: says who?
if the premarital sex is crap, why marry the crappy partner in the first place? i would rather know what i am dealing with for the rest of my life rather than playing lottery with my future partner.

Coogar me old mucker, I'm afraid bro' Balaratie is pretty much spot on here. For the reasons as noted and the "female imperative"

coogar: maybe in nigeria....
the marital institution where i am at sees sex the way it is with girlfriends and whoever. my newlywed neighbours have been having noisy sex in their bedroom balcony all summer.

Not much difference between pre-marital and newlywed shaggin'. Especially if it's before kids and the marriage dynamic proper sets in.

coogar: then why marry such frigid women? that's exactly the point here, isn't it? if they had test-driven, both partners would have known the dos & don'ts. if things won't work out, let them go their separate ways. if my wife isn't satisfied with my cravings, she's in trouble.

Evenif you discard a GF after determining the coupling is not up to scratch, it does not follow that if it is, it will continue to remain so after marriage.

Shall we take this to the man cave? It's about time we touched on hypergamy and the feminine imperative in more detail. It's actually quite dangerous for men to marry wothout being fully aware of this.


TV

Kay17: Definition of Gender:

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

https://www.genderspectrum.org/understanding-gender

http://m.psychologytoday.com/basics/gender

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

Now these definitions are radically different from the one you built your post on.

Gender is a ruse. A neologism in the vein of "gay" or "homosexual". Created and/or used as part of the aim to normalise deviancy and dysfunction.

Human beings - the human binary - are male and female. Apart from a few unfortunate instances of case such as intersex, that is it. No other categorisation is required.

Gender has now morphed into ove 50 odd categories at the last count. With orientation an alphabet soup, starting from LGB, and at last count somewhere at LGBTIQRSTVW...and increasing !

Orientation, which we are told is a spectrum - including hetero, homo and bi, but not other paraphillias such as attraction to animals, babies or the prepubescent?

If your sex, gender and orientation do not align, if the way you present is at odds with the way you feel, and not dovetailed with your "attraction", which is again different from your biological functionality there is something wrong.

And whilst we do not deny people the right to "self-identify" in whatever way they choose, we are not overturning thousands of years of anthropological evidence, cultural heritage and social norms just to justify the idiosyncrasises - or downright perversions - of a disordered minority.


Yeye de smell.

Morning everyone !


TV

^{Sex = male, Gender = masculine, Orientation = striker , Functionality = normal}

Kay17: YOU ARE THE ONE that holds those two conflicting positions and I was tryying to point that out to you!!

My position is clear. Your strategy seems to consist of misrepresernting it to make your case. For clarity, I restated it in my last post.

Kay17: And you have to stop this denial business, when a pregnancy endangers a woman's life the option is an abortion -- killing more or less.

Very, very poor Kay17.Lets look at this in more detail;

Firstly, I said we do not abort. That a life may be lost - and that that life may well be the childs - but we do not kill the child. It does not mean that we undertake an abortion.

Secondly, God is good and great (that is really fist though - you understand me ). The beauty of His creation - even in it's fallen state - is a wonder to behold. An unviable preganancy will normally terminate naturally if it is a danger to the mother, or even if conditions are not condusive. This will typically happen within the first trimester.

Thirdly, although term is typically 36-40 weeks babies can actually survive from about 20 weeks onwards. Not always and it's not that common. But it's becoming more frequent and as technology improves, much more likely

Fourthly, a mother who is not physically capable of carrying a child to term, should really think about not being pregnant in the first place.

Fifthly, do you know how many mothers would understand the sanctity of their childrens lives and reject your solution of "murder"?

And finally, you are trying to pivot your whole morally weak "abortion on demand" mantra on a situation that should rarely arise, and can be well managed without abortion.

Sans morals, absent arguement. Again I invite you to yield & repent !

Either way, please don;t feel you have to task yourself further if you have no new insight to add here.


TV

With the rising trend of wives naming their children after ex-lovers, I predict virgin wives becoming more popular among men !


TV

Morrin' Kay17,

you are not making any headway here. I nfact you are unpicking your own position !

First you claim I said this;

Kay17: Thank you for the understanding, however you undermine your own position that the right to life of the foetus is inalienable by asserting the mother's life over it. As i said earlier that the point of the right to life.

then in the very next sentence you claim I said the opposite?

Kay17: It is a dilemma for you to resolve, because my position already prioritises the mother over the foetus, so I don't suffer that dilemma. you on the other hand, say they are equal.

And here you just scattered the whole thing?

Kay17: You have to concede that the right to the foetus is not alienable, since in the special circumstances when the pregnancy endangers the mother, the foetus would be de-prioritised to the mother.

Surely saying "is not alienable" is the same as saying is inalienable". If you want to make my point for me, please, be my guest !

This sounds like you are either stuck, lost, or attempting to use sophistry to make your point. So for the last time;

The sanctity of human life applies to all humans without fear or favour. A baby is a human at inception. Where a pregnancy may endanger the life of the mother, we do all we can too keep both alive. We do not kill one in order to save the other. Yes, one may die, but we do not purposely kill anyone - geddit? Killing is never the answer to the dillema of death. I have no personal dillema, my position is clear.

And finally, rare instances such as the one we are discussing do not morally or intellectually lead one to conclude that women should have the right to kill thier unborn babies - under the guise of equality, rights and autonomy - at any time and for any reason.

Once again I offer terms .


TV