₦airaland Forum

Sophyrocks: Of course they will face challenges because of the perception of the society aboout having kids outside wedlock

Nope, not due to the "perception" of society, but due to the "reality" of their situations. They have and are primarily responsible for another mans child/children. It's actually counter-intuitive to why humans "pair-bond" in the first place.

Funnily enough, other women will persist on the societal moré the most. How many women want their sons or brothers, friends or family members or marry single-mothers? How many would advise them to do so?

How many men or women grow up dreaming of marrying a single-parent. Who pictures that for their own future? Having children outside wedlock is rightly frowned upon, as it typically presents an "extra" cost/burden to society.

baron2000: For me i think they are like every other woman. I think the hate expressed here from guys is just sad.

Indeed, they are just like "every other woman", but the reality is as I have already stated above. No one is hating on them, just clearly outlining the truth of the situation and cautioning against it.

The haters are those trying to paint a picture of "carry go, notin' do you" and encouraging it as normal and moral practice. It's the women and children that typically suffer. Don't be misled by instances of the women still making good marriages or the children turning out well.

TGIF, lets leave sentiment or personal experience or desire out of broad discussions.


TV

baron2000: does this mean that she should forget ever getting married to another man? Has she lost ALL hope of having a real marriage

TV01: As an individual, there is no reason why this lady can't marry and marry well. But if she had a twin without a child out of wedlock, I rate her twins chances in both regards as that much better.

TV01: Sure a lot of "single-mums" eventually marry, but there is "marriage" and there is "marriage".

TV01: The good news is that if she - as an individual - has the character and deportment of a wife, she still has all to play for, especially given her age.

TV

Nashville: Best comment on this thread. Very soon, she would want her children to also bear her maiden name. Or better still, in the spirit of equality, if they have four children, two will bear her maiden name and the other two will bear her husband's name. Isn't that what equality is about?

Then the next fight will be which of the children will bear whose name? But there must be something to fight about because it seems the idea of marriage is to fight endlessly and prove a point.

Nash dude, how far?

You are late, this is already happening; apart from double barrelled names - which are old hat really - we now have "meshed" (amalgams) names or alternate (father then mother) surnames for the offspring.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9664227/Couples-fuse-surnames-in-new-trend-I-now-pronounce-you-Mr-and-Mrs-Puffin.html
http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/advice-support-40/families-relationships-50/881485-gave-your-children-different-surnames-please-help-me-i-have-less-than-24-hours-all.html - (hint marry him you dimwit)

Weak men, over to you.

TV

pickabeau1: How many single mums do you know and how of them are married

Leave them 0!

How many singles are there out there sef? Forget single mums. Getting more desperate by the minute. Searching high and low and lamenting all over the place. Flocking to and filling out churches.

Instead of them to wise up and tell each other the truth about the outcomes of their "poor choices" and consequences of their bad actions, and make real structural changes to their thinking and actions, they are here cheerleading each other to misery. Their own worst enemies indeed.


TV

pickabeau1: Traditionally women have always been known by the men who had authority over them by their fathers and later their husbands

So Stillfire the daughter of MoreOxygen will be known as Stillfire the wife of PourWater when she was married

Oyibos introduced Mr and Mrs... thats all

It is even the effects of modernism that women can now compound names or keep their maiden names

Leave them.

Be it begged, borrowed, lent or stolen, it's now a part of the local culture. It's become "tradition". An initiative to change or remove said tradition is fine, but to wilfully subvert, or act contrary to it, for selfish reasons is nonsense.

See someone claiming that a man insisting that his wife take his surname because "she is his wife" as a not good enough reason. We took so many yam tubers, I'm sure her people are still finding creative ways to cook it.

Not only will she bear my surname - exclusively - I reserve the right to re-state her given first name or assign any dimunitive I see fit. For the duration of the world cup she was called "babynho" as she served me beverages and sweatmeats !


All traces of her fathers name and authority have been rightfully erased .


TV

Sophyrocks: It does not enhance chances. I never said it does.

Do chances remain exactly the same? Or do chances decrease?

Sophyrocks: I only said it doesnt stop them from getting suitors for marriage.

And no one said chances reduced to "zero" did they?

Sophyrocks: As for higher status partners, i dnt know what you mean by that. Is it financial/social status? Explain.

Sophy, I'm the most romantic bloke in the world, but the truth is, a certain amount of pragmatism is required for marriage. In some ways it's a market and one needs to have bargaining power, a great sense of what's on offer and a decent pricing mechanism.

Consciously or sub-consciously, we all have desires and expectations in our choice of spouse. An understanding of what we are worth, what is available and what we should expect. Even those who think their approach is purely romantic, base who they "fall in love with" to some degree
on that aggregate notion of "value".

Why do degree holders baulk at marrying those without tertiary education? So yes, in some ways it's financial, in some social, but it's all the things that make up the "calibre" of a person, including but not limited to character, education, looks, age, pedigree etc.

As an individual, there is no reason why this lady can't marry and marry well. But if she had a twin without a child out of wedlock, I'd rate her twins chances in both regards as that much better.

I think the "aunties" on this section should be counselling the young ladies to maximise their chances of marrying as best possible. Cheerleading them in their folly is wrong on so many levels. Not to mention that you make it sound as if having "suitors" or simply "getting married" is success, as opposed to the quality/status of suitors or husbands.


TV

...then do so. With immediate effect and instant alacrity !

You live in a culture were they are certain expectations and norms associated with marriage. Taking your husbands surname is one of such. If for any reason you preferred to do it differently, you should have mentioned it before saying "I do".

Presumably he carried out in full the expectations of a man seeking a wife? I thought so.

Husband; you are either "poor husband" for having to deal with this nonsense or "poor & weak" for acceding to it. The choice is yours. To be honest, you should have exercised "choice" with more discretion before asking for her hand. Abi you no ask?


TV

Sophyrocks: I am not in denial here. You say they are usually not desired if there are single ladies since their chances of been desirable are reduced. Desired or Not, does it stop them from marrying? As long as the rate of irresponsibility amongst men will continue to soar, we will continue to have single mothers!! At the end of the day after all said and done, THEY STILL MARRY. So Mr television, No need for debate.

And yes, women who never marry exist more in western countries.

I haff heard.
You still miss the point.

Please answer this question; Does having children out of wedlock enhance a womans chances of marrying or help her atttract higher status partners?

You were right "no need for debate"


TV

Sophyrocks: Mr Television, welcome o! Whether you wanna deny it or not, it doesnt stop these women from marrying o. You have never seen or you hardly see but i have seen lots of them in this same planet earth. Or dnt you see some women marrying twice when some single ladies have not seen one to call their husbands? Are those women from other planets? Abeg o. Feign all the ignorance you want. No time to argue with you. Its not debatable. Argueing over it won't stop them from marrying. Hardly will you see a woman remaining single till death except in western countries.

Unfortunately Sophy, you are the one in denial here. You also fail to demonstrate a grasp of detail.

Sure a lot of "single-mums" eventually marry, but there is "marriage" and there is "marriage".

For the higher status male, SM' will always be down the pecking order of preference. A SM diminishes her chances of making the best match, as well as her chances of making any match.

Women typically marry-up. SM' are usually forced to marry down - if at all!


TV

^{**and in Western contries there are women who remain single and childless till death, usually by choice. There are also many who remain single mums - by force - or are reduced to being baby-mamas to multiple men. Being a SM does not enhance ones marriage prospects, stop decieving the impressionable.**}

sage2: Hi, NLanders.

I want you to have a sneak preview into some aspects of my lifestyle and tell me if, in your opinion, it is normal. Because some of my friends think that I have a situation at hand.

I have never smoke anything nor taste alcohol in my life. I don't do no whores but yet I get laid like crazy and I mostly hit once, rarely twice and on a few occasions thrice and I am done with the babe. She could be as beautiful and pristine as they come, it won't change anything.

I love watching CNN, Discovery and NatGeo wild whenever i decide to watch TV.

I am yet to watch the movies or series, Titanic(I bought the one everybody in my house watched), Harry Potter, Water World, Gladiators, Game of Thrones, Troy, Anything from Nollywoods, Anything from Mexico, Cleopatra, okay, okay, I thinks it would be easier to just list the few ones I have actually Watched.

Here they are(The ones I have watched).

The Godfather, Scent of a woman, Devil's advocate, Finding Forester, Entrapment, Poetic Justice, Save the last dance, and well... that it.

I don't do no clubbing. I stay on my lane and stick to my house. I don't seek fun, I just have it when i happened to be where it is happening.

My TV is off 99% of the time but my Computers are on 90% of the time and I am connected to the internet all year round. I would rather pay for internet connection than waste my hard earned money on DSTV subscription.

I left the UNI so many years ago but everyday, I study like I have a test to write the next day.

I use to be obsessed with learning every new tech that comes but of recent, I have focused most of my resources on data science with emphasis on Hadoop.

I will tell you more when I have the luxury of time and space.

Feel free to comment but have it at the back of your mind that whatever you write here is entirely your opinion and therefore, belongs to you and only you and I am not under any obligation whatsoever to accept it.

Thanks and I wish you luck.

Physically you appear fully functional. Mentally you are somewhat stunted, with seemingly arrested development. You are an oddball, with an unbalanced existence.

My counsel; please don't consider marriage and/or children until you "grow-up"

My hope; that you don't share any more of your wierdo "lifestyle" with us, but focus on getting a "life"

My fear; you'll probably be a governor or minister some day

My prayer; your heartfelt salvation (or at the very least your retreat to the romance section).

My opinion; you don't have to accept or act on it.

You are free to go.


TV

baron2000: My question is- am i right to tell her that her chances of getting married to another man are not damaged?

No, you are not right to tell her that, as for many men, the presence of a child/children is a no-no and disqualifies one as a potential spouse. And all things being equal, most men would prefer to marry women without children. FACT.

The good news is that if she - as an individual - has the character and deportment of a wife, she still has all to play for, especially given her age.

baron2000: Guys can you marry a single mother? will you even consider dating one?

Nope, I couldn't and I didn't. Same goes for most men and even for those that don't mind, it's rarely a preference ATBE.

And when I advise men, I caution that, single mothers are best avoided.

Sophyrocks: The single mothers i know are all hot cakes to Men

Sophy, Sophy, Sophy, what planet do you live on . Hot cakes ko, stale bread ni. Hot "to wife" them? Please stop. At best it begs questions about the single moms you know - perhaps they are millionaires to boot - or the men that find them hot.

Having had a child from a previous relationship does not make women more attractive or desirable to men. For the vast majority of men it's a turn-off. Yes, there are some who may overlook it, a tiny few who can see beyond it and a statistically insignificant number who may be actually seeking it, but it's mostly a big turn-off for "wifing". COLD HARD FACT!


TV

^{**however, it presents no such problem for men . Life is so unfair**}

kulyie: lol she's fine o growing real fast.

Being with her grandma so I could deal with some little issues na why I scarce

thanks

by the way this place is getting hot.o girl you get mat

Where is Jydo? Has she not returned since the "attack".

One thing I appreciated about Ewuro1 was that she absolutely got that in a public forum like NL, one could not be prescriptive. I particularly liked the fact that she got that as a woman.

Kuylie,

Once again you present a picture that is at odds with the story you are telling. Either that child is not yours, or you are not being honest about the background story you are presenting to readers here.

Either way it's a bit creepy.


TV

jessybarbie: Before now, I have already made up my mind not to have anything to do with any man that lays his hand on me and he knows this.I have being dating him for two years now and just in the middle of a big quarrel two days ago he slapped me. I reacted immediately and hit him as much as I could but he did not retaliate but felt really bad and started begging me immediately to forgive him.

I have sworn to him that it is over between us He is begging, pleading, crying, asking our friends to intercede and loads of other stuffs that I can not put down here just to have me at least forgive him and be his friend again but I have declined because I believe that this can happen again.

I want to know if there is a way that it can work again between us? We have gotten to a stage that we are more than just bf and gf. We had great plans for the future if things turns out well but this singular act have altered everything and we are both hurting.

Is there any way to remedy this relationship or is it truly over forever?

I’m no there to proffer advice, to be honest, I’m here to stir, so best ignore me.

So, you took an oath – never to have anything to do with a man that “lays his hands on you” Then, “he laid hands on you” – and he knew about your oath. You then swore that “it was over between you”

You are now here asking for advice about what to do. Well it’s good that I’m not here to give advice, as none is necessary.

He runs the relationship, you’ll do whatever he wants.


TV

zeb04: The feminist fight will only be over if each person regardless of race,gender,ability,is exactly who he or she wants to be.

Which is not about equality at all is it? it's about "autonomy". And autonomy is really about the casting off of all restraint, and the overturning all traditionally held social morés and conventions.

That means the natural family as the cornerstone of society has got to go, sexual restraint removed and a culture of death (abortion & euthanasia) endorsed.

Feminism = Death & Destruction, your words !


TV

lulu69: the west has been able to harmonise this conflict. Men have come to respect and understand the equality that women crave - at least on the home front.

- With a 50% - and increasing - divorce rate?
- With an increasing number of children being born out of wedlock?
- With an entrenched culture of death - right to abortion at any time and for any reason?
- With a total lack of moral restraint and the wholesale pornographication and sexualisation of their society?

Harmonise wetin?
Equal opportunities for men and women is a given and supported by all well meaning men. But "Feminisms" insistence on denying of biological imperatives, sexual morés and "gender" harmony, is destructive.

And please elucidate what exactly this "homefront" equality is, and how they have attained to it in the West.


TV

sailormoon: Simply packing up and leaving and or/reporting seems, on the surface, like the obvious choice, but consider the fact that often, victims are threatened by their abusers when attempting to do so, so it really isn't that easy and 'all you have to do'.

How can tackling abuse head-on in it's incipient stages be anything but obvious? Especially if it's early on in a relationship or before any kind of commitment, and moreso in a country like Sweden where "victims" are well supported.

Even in a committed relationship, unless there is evidence for the "he turned into an axe-wileding psychopath overnight without any warning or reason" thesis, there would have been a pattern of - likely escalatory - behaviour that should have been addressed. Perhaps "counselling"
would have dealt with any issues way before it became abusive if handled properly.

Subsribing to the "no-blame" mantra will at times make it seem that women are simply incapable of managing their lives/relationships and their bad choices/failures to act are simply not somehting to be addressed or considered.


Can't say I'm an abuse expert sha, so maybe there is nuance here that I'm not seeing.


TV

Your husband has spoken well.

And your concerns about your child are also valid - especially given the turmoil the child wil feel if seperated from you now.

If your husbands business cannot be relocated. You need to think about moving to be with him, which of course may necessitate a strategic career change.


All the best.


TV

...the wife.

Then;
1. Get a house help for the kid
2. The two brothers can go fishing

This is getting too easy...


TV

^{**he could of course present them both as part of a suitably qualified set of candidates**}

smurfy: "A true wife must be a good cook in the kitchen, a house-help in the parlour and a prostitute in the bedroom."

Ergo a husband must enjoy well prepared food, not be to bothered about cleaning up after himself and always take his wallet to bed.

You are hereby demoted back to the "Romance" sction. No parole for at least 5 years.

"Smurfy" huh?


TV

cococandy: Of course I understand tha's what she meant too.
Just that it is easy to quote her out of context.

Erm we are fine thanks.
My old handle had some issues after the hurricane.

I agree. The title was a bit misleading, but her utterances are very clear - and sensible IMHO. But she has blashpemed against the prevailing orthodoxy. She will be excommunicated if she doesn't repent with sackcloth and ashes. The fact that it somehow suggests that women are mindless creatures who need protection from themselves is besides the point.


TV

cococandy: Well what's wrong with what she said?

Clanger alert !

Lottie how far? Just figured out it's you. I liked your old handle jor.

The prevailing notion is "the victim is never to be blamed - in whole or in part - ever". It's PC orthodoxy. It's good as far as it goes, but it does present a dilemma of sorts - in some instances.

To claim it as stated means that women are not responsible for even their own choices. Which is probably what prompted the lady' remarks. There was a thread here a while back about "abuse". It was over a 100 pages.

One poster wrote about her serially dating "abusive men", but was very clear that no one should "blame" her. And of course, no one is blaming her for the "abuse", but one must question her "choices", emotional intelligence and maturity. But even that is off-limits according to the above mantra.

The truth is that if many women were more discerning, savvy and with higher expectations, many instances of abuse situations would never happen and many others would be stopped earlier. But it's simply not PC to say so.

This is what I reckon the lady in the OP probably meant, especially given the high level of support available to those in abusive situations in Sweden.

How's Oga?


TV

naijababe: No it's not just you. You try sef, I only know Kim, i can't tell you what her mum or sisters look like

Maybe...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2085230/Khloe-Kardashian-TWO-fathers-ex-wives-claim-expressed-doubts-paternity.html

http://www.buzzfeed.com/whitneyjefferson/50-photos-of-khloe-kardashian-looking-nothing-like


TV

kulyie: Since your mind is made up there is no need to make you see reasons why. Stick to your ball o

Everytime I see these three Kardashian girls, I just wonder; "did this woman - their mum - land their dad with "one extra". Is it me?

Hmmm...


TV

damiso: Eeeew Hubby is the one who does it as well.I no even know where the suction thing i bought from Boots is sef cos the man go just suck am.My mum would say so what if he travels? So you will watch your child struggle to breath.My answer is that is what suction and Eucalyptus oil plus wipes is for.*shudders* eew again.

That is why we are a team where I am weak, He is strong

TV I thought you would be to "posh" for this. ;DMy husband na ibadan boy so its understandable dem sabi all those 'locy' things

I humble myself where my families well-being is concerned 0. And it works for the "team" thingy; wifey does not do dirty or heavy lifting. And yes, at first I was subject to local/bushy-bushy type remarks.

Although funnily enough, she too jumped on this bandwagon small-small. Not willing to cede her position as primary carer - by me doing something for him that she doesn't - she followed suit. But it's a half-hearted almost noiseless effort. And she's always quick to call me or say to him "let daddy suck your nose" if I'm around !


TV

pickabeau1: Nice from the pastor ...You have a point though....

You should see TD Jakes preaching and how the women nod their heads...

2 Timothy 3:6 NKJV
For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts...


TV

^{**not all and not everything, but pretty much**}

feedthenation: What about the powerful messages for married women?

...just the one; "summit' to ya oga"


TV

^{***no figthin' now***}

...and people drink this


TV

Hygenic? who cares?

As soon as I spot anything "bubbling" around his nostrils, I vacuum it up like "dyson". Hot or cold, watery, soft or hard.
My boy is used to it. As soon as he sees me lean forward with pursed lips he knows it aint "kissy kissy" time.

He immediately closes his eyes, clenches his fists and instinctively opens his mouth. I don't stop till he starts gasping for breath.
It typically happens when I bathe him in the morning or evening, so straight down the plughole - but I'll "act on sight".

I once did it during his weekly swimming lesson. Come see whooping and cheering (if de bogey enter water, these oyinbos go abandon class 0!). My man is used to it now, oft times he'll just tug my shirt and say "daddy suck nose" !

Salt content varies, but can be a great health indicator.

While mummy is looking for "wipe", daddy is doing like "Action Jackson"

Awesome for bonding.

Dem suppose hashtag am sef!

#MyDaddySucks-BigTime


TV

Nonso23: carefreewannabe,
You are arguing ideally ideologically, naively and absent real life experiencically .
While i'm completely indifferent to the dynamics of other people's relationships, I'm still bothered that you are using rare exceptions as a basis for comparison with the obvious 'norm'.

From the onset of development , men and women have been differentiated. Our genes bear similar foundations but also differences that can not be ignored.
Raising the two genders from childhood demand different approaches in order for each of them to enaure they maximize their potentials. Why? Gender as a whole is an outer reflection of the many hidden differences between both genders. A man is a man, a woman is a woman. We have our strength and weaknesses.

We are like two programs written for different purposes. If you input the same data we handle it differently and most often than not, output different results.

Raising a child requires different approaches. A man cannot understand why a child will keep crying even when it appears they are 'comfortable'. Why, after all , logically the child is on a warm bed and propped comfortably? He doesn't read subtle emotional signs. Women on the other hand are intuitive and will keep guessing till they discover the cause for the wailing.
The above is just an instance amongst many others I could keep reeling out.

A woman is a source of emotional attachment to a child.
A man is a source of psychological strength to a child.
Roles are not interchangeable.

Stop using ideal situations to buttress your logic. It's dead on arrival.

Excellent post. With the tiniest of amendments


TV

carefreewannabe: I will not go in circles with you when you refuse to answer my questions, so again:
What exactly is a father UNABLE to give to his children at which stage apart from b.r. east-feeding that a mother is?

Your question has been adequately answered in my last post as quoted below.

It is not a question of what either parents is "unable" to do, it's about the different biological/natural giftings and preparation and the consequently different ways mothers and fathers parent; Bringing a unique and complimentary flavour to child rearing which makes for a balanced well-raised child.

I change nappies just like my wife does, but you'd be surprised that even in this "chore", we have different approaches - based on the natural feminine/masculine balance.

The presence of a mother is best for a new born. All the physiological and psychological changes a woman undergoes prepares her for exactly that. Men do not undergo the same changes. So yes, a man woul dbe able to look after a new born child. Just like zoos bottle feed or hand rear baby animals without mothers. Does that mean it's best and should therefore be adopted as equal/normal. Wild animals have been known to raise human babies. Your concern is not children, their nurture or healthy families. It's equality.

TV01: Your ideology forces you to reduce child raising to chores. It's far more than that. Mothers and fathers contribute in different ways to a childs development. The way the articulate, empathise, play, discipline and comfort children all differ. Input from the two is key to a childs optimal development. Nurture =/= Chores.
Making it sound like there is no difference between the input/contribution of mothers and fathers is ideologically led, not evidence based. These differences are biologically re-inforced. Our wiring means men and women have natural capabilities and inclinations which make them better suited for particular roles and bring different input to parenting. So far example, boys raised without a mothers input often lack empathy.
Ideologically you are on the exact same page as the homosexualists. Have the strength of your convictions. Are two fathers or two mothers exactly the same as a mother and a father. Do children only really need mothers at the point of entry?

As for claiming I am not answering your questions, you are the one not answering questions, denying what your staements imply or conveniently forgetting things .

Questions;
1. Is child rearing reducible to chores?
2. If as stated there is nothing a mother or father does that the other cannot equally or adequatrely replicate, why are two fathers or two mothers not equivalent to a father and a mother? And as you have pressed for, I am willing to take gestation and breast-feeding out of the equation.
3. Are the vast majority of females naturally inclined to taking a lower status mate which is necessary for a full role reversal or swap which is also implied by your stance. The flip side; are the vast majority of men wired in such a way as to play home maker while the wife provides? Or; does the natural dynamic between males and females make the roles interchangeable for the majority whilst ensuring happy unions?


TV

carefreewannabe: What research do you need to see that progressive countries are progressive?

Research that shows - as you are claiming - that it is the move away from traditional households that is responsible for this "progress". Or research that shows that it is Nigerias family structure that is hindering it's progress/development.

carefreewannabe: Be more specific. What exactly are fathers UNABLE to provide except for b.r.e a. s. t- feeding?

Your ideology forces you to reduce child raising to chores. It's far more than that. Mothers and fathers contribute in different ways to a childs development. The way the articulate, empathise, play, discipline and comfort children all differ. Input from the two is key to a childs optimal development. Nurture =/= Chores.

Making it sound like there is no difference between the input/contribution of mothers and fathers is ideologically led, not evidence based. These differences are biologically re-inforced. Our wiring means men and women have natural capabilities and inclinations which make them better suited for particular roles and bring different input to parenting. So far example, boys raised without a mothers input often lack empathy.

Ideologically you are on the exact same page as the homosexualists. Have the strength of your convictions. Are two fathers or two mothers exactly the same as a mother and a father. Do children only really need mothers at the point of entry?

carefreewannabe: You STILL have not answered my question. What exactly are fathers NOT ABLE to give to their children that mothers are except for b.r.e.a.st - feeding?

As above

carefreewannabe: I don't remember, I read this article some years ago at a doctor's office.

Again, as above. How will you remember !

carefreewannabe: This is not what I said.

And again, as above. That is what is clearly implied by your position. Fathers and mothers are interchangeable and therefore replaceable by each other. Or simply expendable. And again, have the strength of your convictions.

carefreewannabe: I am quite sure you are a good man.

Pix or you wont believe it !

carefreewannabe: A society's progress has ALWAYS very much to do with its core unit called family. No sociologist would dispute that.

And nobody here is.
Is the "progress" of Western nations due to role-swapping or reversal in traditional families? Is it due to homosexualisation of those nations?
Please show us one "developed" or "progressive" nation where the "traditional family" is not the overwhelming family type.

carefreewannabe: I would rather have higher divorce rates than fathers who, when bored with the first wife, get a second or third or ....

In your "developed/progressive" nations up to 70% of divorces are instituted by women. Many on the basis of vague notions of "not being happy", and a sense that they'll be happier without the husbands, but with the lions share of the assets he accumulated. What's your point?

carefreewannabe: I would rather have single-parent homes than miserable marriages, in which women are threatened to be send packing out of the HUSBAND'S house.

Marriage is not miserable by design, neither do children appear without action. Neither of the two are necessary, dependant on each other or an indicator of "progress". What point are you making?

carefreewannabe: I would rather have teen pregnancies, which are RATHER typical of the lower classes, than girls who have abortions in dubious places and men who LEGALLY marry marry kids.

Your point is? Are not teen pregnancies correlated to abortions? Can you have abortions without having pregnancies. Are there no lower class girls in "developed" nations. Are "kids" in developed nations not supplied with contraceptives - without their parents knowledge - and encouraged to explore sex when barely out of kindergarten?

What is the difference between kids having sex and kids of the same age marrying?

carefreewannabe: Suicide, drug abuse, se.xual violence and porn addicitons are also to be encountered in Nigeria.

They are not as rampant or culturally embedded. They are not socially acceptable and still scorned as opposed to considered cool. That makes Nigeria more progressive no?

carefreewannabe: I PREFER TO LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT IS NOT PERFECT THAN IN A SOCIETY THAT IS A COMPLETE MESS WITH EXTREME HIGH POVERTY AND AIDS RATES AND CORPSES ON THE STREET.

Nobody is denying you your preferences, you just can't have your own facts !

carefreewannabe: I agree, I was in Turkey some years ago.

Me too. Lots of Germans. They love beach volley, although they were very competitive and way too serious - even on holiday.


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carefreewannabe: Years of anthropological experience show that the most traditional countries are the most backward. This is what years of traditional experience show.

What has this to do with with the point in question? Plus it's a non-sequitur. Are "forward" countries wothout "traditions"? Out of interest, please point us towards this illuminating research !

carefreewannabe: Talking about input, explain to me what a father cannot give a child at a certain stage except for breast-feeding.

Fathers are not wired to provide the same degree/level of pre and post natal input to a childs life. It's not just care, it's development as well.

carefreewannabe: When it comes to raising children both parents are equally qualified to do so unless they are retarded and therefore a danger to the child.

You are off-point, nobody made this claim. The point is that they are at some points differently equipped and therefore not interchangeable. And that fact should be considered when making decisions with the best long-term interest of the family in mind. Again, it's not just care, it's also oprimal development. Otherwise househelps/servants would obviate this conversation.

carefreewannabe: Apart from breat-feeding, there is no other argument why men cannot raise children. And as for breast-feeding, there are solutions too. If you don't like them, let the mother stay with the child till she finishes breast-feeding and then take over. Note that some women are not able to breast-feed at all.

So lets take breast-feeding out of the equation. As soon as a child is born a father can take care of a child as well as it's mother? Please note my above responses.

carefreewannabe: By the way, medical research chows that men also undergo physiological changes when their partners are pregnant, provided they live together and are close.

Excellent point. And does this research show that the changes are exactly the same? Or that the changes are not unique to either sex and therefore meaning both sexes are not actually required?

By your argument, two men can have a child by surrogate, take delivery of the child at birth and that is exactly the same and just as good as a male/female family. Yes?

carefreewannabe: Being different gives NOBODY the right to tell me what I am SUPPOSSED to do with my life. Being different does not mean that I cannot be a doctor, teacher, CEO, scientist, lawyer or whatever. Being different does not mean that I am less qualified and more st. upid to make money. Being different does not mean that I have to enjoy house chores and that you are UNABLE to do them.

Nobody has claimed any of the above. And very little of it actually speaks to this discussion.
And for the little that does, I do house chores !

carefreewannabe: As long as Nigerians will not accept that educated working women do the country a lot of good, there will be very little progress.

Nigerias progress - or lack of - has very little to do with it's family structure. Or it's educational provision to the sexes. Except for the north which I don't know about, in the rest of the country there is hardly any difference.

carefreewannabe: Working women → more money → more shopping → demand for more goods and services → more jobs
→ more prosperity

And even if this is true, does it mean better families or child nurture. Presumably the higher rates of divorce, single-parent homes, teen pregnancy, suicide, drug use, sexual violence, porn addictions etc. are all indicators of progress to you?

carefreewannabe: Just because something is difficult to achieve, does not mean it should not be tried to.

carefreewannabe: I would unhappily enter an arrangement, in which my role is restricted to staying at home and in which my partner thinks that the house chores are the primary role of a woman.

Don't be overly personal, nobody is being prescriptive or or even advisory. We are just presenting our points of view. Your choices remain personal.

carefreewannabe: Am not German.

I appreciate that Frau CW. But Turkey is still a great holiday destination !


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