₦airaland Forum

The Key:

Initially i was upset by the injustice dished out by such jerks. Now i don't even mind. Only pathetic, insecure losers feel the need to enforce/protect their views by deleting posts and banning writings with views that contradict theirs. They usually do this in the name of God, but even religious terrorists kill in God 's name. Find somewhere else or another medium to share your views and move on.

Sadly, there is no much you can do when your boss or elder is a religious jerk especially when you badly depend on this person. You might just have to endure till you find a way.

I find religious jerks to be insecure by virtue of their militant and supremacist stance. Take Muslims as a case study. There are multiple sects, schools of thought and alternate views regarding various religious issues in the Muslim community. Hence, it only make sense that in this forum, an Islam section should be open to Muslims to share their alternate views and agree to disagree.

Where the moderator is a jerk, this is not possible. Expect shitty moderating like deleting of posts for merely contradicting the moderator 's views, banning of posters who express different Islamic views from the mainstream. They usually accuse you of being a bad influence, misguiding Muslims, ignorance e.t.c. Jerks do not decide based on reason or for justice, but based on emotion and aim of enforcing their views.

3. They hold supremacist and militant religious views

Having a religious jerk as a boss, elder or online forum moderator can be a frustrating experience. They 'll cross their limit, interfere in your lifestyle and try to change you by enforcing their views or restricting yours.

For instance, i did live with an elder relative for a while last year. I always stay awake late into the night, thanks to my job, so i had to get up late.

Some days, this man wakes earlier and by 5:15 a.m, at the start of Muslim prayer in a nearby Mosque, he dashes out of the house to join the prayer while am still in bed or just getting out. On his return, he 'll begin berating me for not joining them in the Mosque, accusing me of laziness, not being steadfast with Islam.

The experience left me bitter. I took the time to present him evidence from the Qur'an; Morning prayer musn't be done at the instant the local Mosque begins it but anytime within dawn, only noon prayers on fridays is specified by the scripture to be held in congregation and so i don't have to bother missing the congregational morning prayers held in the local mosque daily. His blind rejection of this evidence coupled with his negligence of my right as an adult to religious choice or privacy culminated in my premature departure from his house.

The Key:

Sometimes, only deep into the conversation do you realize you are dealing with a religious jerk. It is never too late to sign out. Get over the matter and resist all the tempting, provocation or taunts by the jerk to get you back into the dispute. For an online conversation where you are compelled to post one last word that may be helpful to candid readers, post with the minimum reference to the trolls or jerk and move on.

It was clear i was dealing with a nutcase. He presented no proof for his allegation against me, yet here he was emphatic for a proof of the same accusation against him. Hence, i gave up the matter. But trust jerks, he wanted to hurt me real good, so he made innuendoes regarding me days later. In return, i presented full evidence from his religious texts for my allegations against him. Again, he went bonkers, dismissed the proof without a genuine basis and repeatedly demanded proof.

I can present the link to the page, where all of this may be read but i 'll rather not further disgrace this folk. Several days latter, he 'll return with his innuendoes against me on the same thread. But i have put that behind me. I won't dwell on jerks.

2. They lack courtesy or diplomacy in handling their critics or naysayers

A fine way of testing for religious jerks is to politely and academically criticize a viewpoint they just expressed. Religious jerks are emo-sensitive and cannot differentiate constructive criticism from personal attack. Thus, however humble and well meaning you sound, you are sure to enrage jerks when you contradict their views. Desperate to share their bitterness with you, they resort to ridicule especially if unable to find fault in your view.

You 'll expect such weak and easily offended minds to talk less and mind their business but, no. Religious jerks are often nuisance, judgemental and very inquisitive.

The Key:

Many times, i have met these kinds of jerks offline and here on Nairaland. Like many in my shoes, i 've tried reasoning with them in the past. It is sheer waste of time. Once you find them already accussing, rebuking, ridiculing you or attacking your persona instead of focusing on your ideas, just forget them. No critical mind will back them.

They have this tendency to drag forgotten misunderstandings over time, ressurect past and irrelevant disputes into a fresh matters. Religious jerks can be a pain in the as.s. They seek for the tiniest flaw observable in you and even if this flaw has no bearing with the topic, they 'll exploit as a basis to dismiss you.

Here is an example, listen as this ma'am shares her experience with a religious jerk who happen to be her co-religionist. Pay closer attention from the 2:30 minute to the end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxEBlAsNzjQ

1. They thrive on personal feuds and derail from the bone of contention.

Whenever you express an idea, criticising certain views, you invite a whole lot of listeners or readers. Some of them agree with you, others disagree and provide evidence for counter claims while respecting your choice. But there are certain nut cases whose point of replying you isn't merely to disagree but to shame you and hurt your feelings.

Usually, they sound very nasty, employ foul language or innuendoes. They may accuse you, call you names, put words into your mouth all these to hurt your feelings. The focus of a critical listener or reader in every subject is the ideas or views expressed or criticised. For the religious jerk, who is not interested in critical or progressive thoughts, his focus is your person, soiling your character in mud. By so doing, he kindle a personal feud and divert from the bone of contention.

Hey, ever locked horn with religious jerks or as.sholes who are unpleasant, arrogant fanatics that hate anyone expressing beliefs or religious interpretation that contradict theirs? Ever been pestered, provoked and rebuked by self identified 'devout, practicing believers' who cannot deal with religious differences, admit they could be wrong or admit your right to express religion as you understand it?

We 'll be talking these dogmatic, militant and supremacist religionists whose absolutist mindset propose that only their views deserves to be official or be heard, their view is perfect and anyone with alternate view is fraud. We 'll focus on these jerks online and their offline counterpart who happen to be our neighbour, roommate or family.

Here are 5 salient attitudes of religious jerks and the keys to tackle them.

^^^
In the late 80's, Salman Rushdie authored a Book; Satanic Verses. In it, he condemned Muhammad as mentally imbalanced false Prophet, presenting evidence from Hadith Books. The Chief cleric and Supreme leader of 'Islamic' republic of Iran, Ayatollah R. Khomeini ruled by fatwa that Salman should be killed by Muslims, where and whenever found. In Saudi Arabia 38 top Muslim clerics at the time, stipulated the same ruling as Khomeini. Not a single cleric in the Muslim world opposed this ruling. Even today, over a 2 decades later, with Rushdie is still alive thanks to police protection in Britain, NO TOP MUSLIM ORGANIZATION or CLERGY have overuled or disapproved the ruling for Rushdie 's assasination. Even after Khomeini 's death, his ruling still stands and Iran mainstream clerical class reaffirm it.

The Afghani Woman 's case is no different from Rushdie 's case. If Rushdie wasn't so fortunate, he would be long dead by now. I could give several examples of Muslims/non-Muslims that have either been killed or faces death threats from Muslim authorities for alleged apostasy or blasphemy. And you will still repeat, "dont blame Islam, how can you blame the religion for the crime of just a few adherents?" To this, i will reply;
"What is Islam, what are the sources of Islam?"

The fact is, the killing of this Afghani woman is condoned and justified under "an Islam" that is out there. We need to confront and expose this Islam for what it is and that is not possible if Muslims like you persist in denial.

Justfollowit: No I know the verses you would quote But it is unfortunate that they are quoted alone, out of context and with no knowledge of the situation that led to its revelation. I feel sad for you

Lady, you must see this;

Sunan Abi Dawud » Book of Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud)

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

Wake up early each day, research, investigate, study hard, listen objectively to all sides, rationalize, draw conclusion, stand for what you believe but be tolerant and not militant about it. That is my stance on life and religion in particular.

The fuel that drives a forum, an interactive platform like Nairaland is the differences in ideas expressed in the form of opinions, criticisms, suggestion, narration e.t.c. Without this differences, there is hardly anything to talk here, nothing to exchange, nothing to learn.

To assert only your idea while barring others from even being heard is the height of zealous bigotry and fanaticm. When you look at Islam section, that is the lane it is headed. I have been active in Islam section for about 36 months, even before my reformation from traditional brand of Islam to an heterodox one, i have always had reservations for Islam section. Born out of cases like Muslims being the only religious group entitled to a full section, the dogmatic mindset or abhorrence of self criticism in the section.

Let me repeat, i resent Islam section. It represent everything wrong with the Muslim world today, whether intolerance, ignorance, hypocrisy, oppression or victim complex. That is why i was taken aback to learn that this topic has been moved from Religion section, down here in Islam section. I have hard several of my threads deleted in Islam section, not for violating any Nairaland posting code but for criticising mainstream Muslim narratives and expressing alternative Islamic ideas or interpretations as i have done in this topic. Aside that, several non-Muslims have been penalized or banned for merely expressing opinions or observations critical of Muslims.

I abandoned Islam section to escape supremacist, militant and self-opinated Muslims and settled to post in Religion section where i can get decent dialogue, discourse and tolerance. The worst thing that could happen is to push my topic to Islam section where i have to endure provocation untill my topic is eventually deleted. Anyone who has read tartar9, RoyPCain, Trustworthiness and Empiree 's posts in this thread understand what am talking.

Please, OAM4J, Seun, stop moving my topics to Islam section. My topics aren't meant for only Muslims but for non-Muslims to question, judge and criticise responsibly; a right they cannot exercise in Islam section. I want to meet, share and learn from folks, Muslims and non-Muslims with diverse views, yet tolerant of others. Enough of Islam section agents.

DeepSight:
Although I am absolutely for freedom in terms of attire, I must say that there are considerable civil rights reasons in favor of banning veils, and one that must not be overlooked is the fact that a lot of women do not even voluntarily choose to wear it but do so under extreme social, cultural, religious and psychological pressure up to and including the threat of physical harm.

For such persons, the ban is liberation.

Thank you. I deliberately left that out because the advocates of the veil insist that most women wear the veil out of choice, not under coercion.

Then, there is the case of immigrants taking their official oath or pledge of citizenship in front of a Judge, the police and civilians, yet concealing their face. Very unethical and disrespectful.

Trustworthiness:
So, I have the following questions for the op to answer:

1. What is the or explain the concept of God in Christianity?
2. Who is Jesus? God, Son of God, Son of Man?
3. If the word Christian derived from christ, which means follower christ. Then what are going to call Jesus christ himself?
4. Following the question 3 above, what is the religion of christ.
5. Why do we have gospel ACCORDING TO Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc. Why not gospel BY JESUS? Not even gospel BY Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc?

Please, make reference to Jesus statements from the Bible to prove your point.

Are those questions for the OP? The OP never claimed to be Christian.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Some Thoughts On The Veil:
http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/The%20Veil.htm

Brief History of the Veil in Islam
http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%20Veil%20in%20Islam%20_%20Facing%20History%20and%20Ourselves.htm

History Of Hijab and Veiling
http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Women%20%29%20Veiling%20%29%20History%20of%20the%20Hijab%20-%20Arabs%20in%20America.htm

History Of The veil
http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/History%20of%20the%20Veil.%20Part%20One%20%20Veil%20in%20the%20Ancient%20World%20_%20Alexandra%20Kinias.htm

http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/History%20of%20Veil%20%E2%80%93%20Part%202%20%20Veil%20In%20Pre-Islamic%20Arabia%20_%20Alexandra%20Kinias.htm

https://alexandrakinias./2010/07/11/history-of-the-veil-part-3-early-days-of-islam/

Muhammad Asad Qur'an Translation commentary:
http://www.islamicity.com/quransearch/shownote.asp?chap=24&note=38

Qur'an Does Not Mandate Hijab
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_351_400/quran_does_not_mandate_hijab.htm

Misinterpretation of Qur'anic Verses on Hijab
http://file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/MISINTERPRETATION%20OF%20QUR.htm

Qur'an: A Reformist Translation & Qur'an: A Monotheist Translation : Available for free Download online.

Verses About Hijab in the Qur'an
http://mto.org/islam/he/verses_hijab.html

Veil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil

"Speaking in God's Name: Islamic Law, Authority and Women'' by Professor Khalid Abou El Fadl

basilico:
Usermane... You misrepresents the facts. Umar begged Muhammad to order the veiling of women . he spied on Muhammad's wife as she went out to the fields to relieve herself. He even approached her saying I recognise you.
Allah not to disappoint Umar brought down the revelation ordering women to be veiled.

Read here:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Revelation_of_the_Hijab


Umar later became the second caliph after Abu Bakr.

You should know by now, i don't believe in conjectures and hearsay. I am rather inclined to facts, that is why i restricted my work to the Qur'an. Even historical analysis like i presented has to be deeply researched and indisputable or else i shun it.

CONCLUSION:

The ban of the veil is neither a restriction of freedom of dressing nor compromise of freedom of religious practice or expression. It protect the right of men and you to recognize and identify whom we are dealing with for crucial reasons like security, trust, reference e.t.c.

It is a step in the right direction against gender segregation, women seclusion and enhances integration of immigrant Muslim in their new society. This will also curtail discrimination and marginalization due to anti-veil sentiments.

Also importantly, it questions the position of the veil in Islam and drive Muslims to objective research of their religious thoughts rather than blind compliance with clergymen and traditions.

Good day.

My latest paper; Face-Veil: Why The Ban? seek to answer the question in its title, why ban the face-veil commonly called Niqab in the Muslim discourse from public space?

Starting with the social implication of the veil it drives over a range of issues concerning the veil and these includes the position of the veil in Islam, is it obligatory, a recommendation or in fact, another one of those innovation incorporated into Islam by mere men.
However, it goes deeper than this, subjecting other elements of traditional Muslim women dress codes like head-covering, plain robes or cloaks(a.k.a Abaya, Jilbaab) to the same test.

Holding the Qur'an as the sole the criterion and authority in ascertaining the veracity of claims for these dress codes, it also dispute the orthodox interpretation of various words like ''Khimmaar, Juyub or Zinatahunna'' presenting alternative interpretation more in tune with rationalism, realism and the literary context of the verses which these words occur. To broaden the scope of the paper, an historical overview of the veil is briefly presented at the end equipping you with another means other than theology to view the veil, this could come in handy for historical research work.

For Muslims unconvinced of the the traditional narratives pertaining to women dress code in their community, this is a must read.

Shalom.

THE VEIL IN MODERN TIMES

Eventually, by the end of the Middle age the veil had outlived it usefulness and recognition in the political spheres, slavery was abolished and starting from Europe to the Middle East, elite women gradually started to forgo the veil. Rather low class women who still admired it but were barred from donning in the past soon began to adopt it. In the religious sphere, the veil still maintained it significance but was gradually overlooked by most people.

The rise of Islamism(Islamist supremacism) account for the up-surge of the veil today. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, till the last fifth of 20th century, the veil wasn't so common in the Muslim world. Conservative Muslim states today like Saudi Arabia did permit women to at least reveal their faces prior to the 80's. In Iran women had the right to even wear pants and uncover their hair. The gradual transition from theocratic orthodoxy to secular, pluralistic democracy in these regions was thwarted by the re-emergence of militant, fanatic Islamist revolutionary thinking borne out from clergy grievances and western imperialism.

Today, the veil is not just a religious requirement for top Muslim groups like Muslim Brotherhood. It embodies the anti-western, Islamist supremacist agenda of the these prominent Muslim groups or bodies that promises no more than a return to the days ignorance, backwardness and oppression in traditional Muslim history.

HOW WAS THE VEIL INCORPORATED INTO MUSLIM THOUGHT


Make no mistake, the veil predates Islam and did not even originate from the Arabs. It originated from ancient Indo-European cultures of the Assyrians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Greek, Romans and Persian. This was very long before Islam.

Among the treasures found by archeologists on excavating a site at ancient city of Ninevah were tablets uncovered the glories of the Assyrian civilization millenniums ago in Mesopotamia. The Assyrians were a powerful kingdom that once led the world in terms of military might as well as science and technology. With conquests of neighboring lands, Assyria was flood with enormous number of slaves. The males were used for manual labor while the females were used as domestic workers and concubines.

To distinguish between free, honored women of Assyria from female slaves, the former were required by law to wear the veil and female slaves were forced to go with their heads uncovered.

true2god:
How can a veiled teacher communicate properly with her students? How can her students read her contenance if she is angry, happy or indifference? How can a student know the identity of his teacher if she is veiled.

On a transaction level, how can a client know his customer if she is veiled? Can can a teller check the photo mandate of her customer if her customer is veiled?

On a civil level, how can a court know the identity of a criminal or complainant in a court of law? How can the police identify a suspect on veil? How can a national ID card or passport be issued on a veiled citizen?

So many things is wrong with a woman on a full veil. No sane country will encourage or compel her citizen to be on a full veil.

Well said, true2god. The veil in it self is not a practical outfit. Women that doned the veil in earlier times were elites, wives of wealthy men who didn't need to work, run errands or answer to anyone. This was less of a problem than today where we have students, doctors, traders engaged in practical work yet seek to wear it.