₦airaland Forum

Cutehector:
I let it go... But they shouldn't in any way dare come ask me for money..

Thanks, but supposing you need the money and have only two alternatives;

to borrow from someone else or to press your debtor, which will you pick?

Let me add a bit more context.



I lent a colleague a sum of money 2 months ago. It was on a friday night and he promised to pay back by Monday. I knew i couldn't afford to lend so much at that time, but he pleaded desperately and i fell for it. Now it has been 2 months and he has only paid a third of his debt, often avoiding me, lamenting on unpaid salaries. Today he 'll announce he had gone to the ATM but was unable to withdraw, next week he 'll explain another fellow owes him and is paying back over the weekend and we agree to meet next week, next week am waiting at his workplace but lo and behold, he is no where near.

What do you suggest i do?

Good day. I need your views on reluctant debtors. A debtor who almost never pays you and when he does, it is after letting you endure undue frustrations, disappointments and waste of time.

Do you lend money you cannot afford to lose or might need in few weeks to desperate persons who promise to pay in a few days?

For how long will you endure before you start bothering your debtor if he fails to pay?

What kind of excuses are you willing to tolerate from a reluctant debtor and how will you react on discovering he had been lying to you?

Thanks in advance.

<iframe width="420" height="280" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pxEBlAsNzjQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

OREMUSSANCTUS and Ifeann, thanks pals for the concern about my whereabout. That 's thoughtful and caring.

I decided to take a break off Nairaland. You know the kind of work i 've been engaged here since last year. Answering questions, writing critiques, researching views, responding to critics and accusations, dealing with haters. This is time and energy consuming especially for a one man army like me. Initially, like investigating crimes, conspiracies or malware in your PC, i thought it was cool but in the long run, it was becoming burdensome. I needed to relax, invest more in myself, my relationships and other secular areas of life which were suffering, so i resolved on a break.

I had a nice time, but it is good to be back. I missed you guys.

You haven't changed Empiree. You still think you can pick me apart by judging my posts on a shallow level. That 's why i 'll always be steps ahead of you. Call it arrogance if you like.

Sahih Bukhari
Book of Salat.

Narrated by Anas bin Malik Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."

One thing is clear about the age old war btw the Muslim world and the West, it was the former that started the war in the 7th century by invading Byzantine Empire; a flagrant violation of Qur'anic teachings. Up till end of the Ottoman Empire, the war continued with the Muslim world, mostly the aggressor. As usual sahih Hadith like above were huge inspiration for the aggression. Whenever orthodox Muslims want to violate the Qur'an, whether by enslaving, polytheism, killing apostates, they turn to Hadith Books.

Today, the Muslim world is at the receiving end of the war only because unlike in the middle age, they lack the military competence to defeat the West. Their repeated defeats to Israel clearly explains it. If the Muslim world had the capacity and military prowess of the West, they would have done with impunity and in the name of Islam the the same thing today 's west is doing. A leopard never change his spot.


Finally, unless of course you live on hearsay and do not believe in verses of the Qur'an that proclaim it message is detailed, barring menstruating or post natal bleeding women from salat and fasting is as good as hindering people from the path of God, deal with that.

I have chosen not to revisit this topic because from a just, rational and Quranic perspective, it goes beyond saying that stoning adulterers is unjustifiable.

One wonders how stoning to death can be halved for married slave women(Qur'an 4 25) or doubled for wives of Muhammad(Qur'an 33:30) if indeed it is the Islamic penalty for adultery.

Empiree: So I sometimes do not use mainstream view in debate. This is why many brothers here can not squash usermane. The guy is smart. But he can't crush them either. I was silently reading their arguments back and fourth last yr until i jumped in between. He had to give up on me because my method was different. He said it himself that he gave up on me. He studied and truly captured mainstream ideology and used it against them. Sorry for the long-winded post.

Abuamam: He is a quranist. There is no difficulty in debating a quranist who accepts logical reasoning... using the correct methodology. Same with Shi'as. The reason why you were more seemingly successful is because he was less used to your system; not because you were right, and most deviant sects are trained to debate the orthodox view, while orthodox sunnis mostly do not bother specialising in debate with specific sects.

Beg your pardon! A deviant sect whose ideology is fragile and easy to counter is the one you belong. The one which bar non-Muslims from Mecca and Medina and yet endorse 'Jihad'(military aggression) against these non-Muslims outside the 'Islamic state', the one which stone adulterers but yet condones keeping concubines, hinder menstruating women from the path(Salat & Fasting) of God. A deviant sect that slanders the Prophet of pedophilia and war crimes whilst paying whilst false allegiance or respect for him is the one you belong.

See, as long as you keep trading the Qur'an for traditions of men(Hadith Books);

I "ll always be one step, three steps, seven steps ahead of you. And just when you think you are catching up, boom! That 's when i "ll be right behind you. And in no time you ''ll be exactly where i want you to be. So come close, get over me, because the closer you think you are; the less you are actually seeing. I "ll always be the smartest guy in the room.

SALAAM!

Empiree:
Let's invite usermane to read your last post. Mind you this is his evidence.

All the verses the OP presented so far may allude to the success and height of Muhammad but they do not in any allude to your claim of his superiority over all messengers.

Carefully read this Hadith;

Sahih Bukhari
Book of Prophet

Narrated Abu Huraira: Once while a Jew was selling something, he was offered a price that he was not pleased with. So, he said, "No, by Him Who gave Moses superiority over all human beings!" Hearing him, an Ansari man got up and slapped him on the face and said, "You say: By Him Who Gave Moses superiority over all human beings although the Prophet (Muhammad) is present amongst us!"

The Jew went to the Prophet and said, "O Abu-l-Qasim! I am under the assurance and contract of security, so what right does so-and-so have to slap me?" The Prophet (ﷺ) asked the other, "Why have you slapped". He told him the whole story. The Prophet (ﷺ) became angry, till anger appeared on his face, and said, "Don't give superiority to any prophet amongst Allah's Prophets, for when the trumpet will be blown, everyone on the earth and in the heavens will become unconscious except those whom Allah will exempt. The trumpet will be blown for the second time and I will be the first to be resurrected to see Moses holding Allah's Throne. I will not know whether the unconsciousness which Moses received on the Day of Tur has been sufficient for him, or has he got up before me. And I do not say that there is anybody who is better than Yunus bin Matta."

Give up in the face of truth. There is no proof in Islam for superiority of Muhammad above other messengers.

AlBaqir 's understanding of the verb 'tawaffi' is flawed. While on one or two occasions in the Qur'an, 'tawaffi' did not mean physical death, most of its occurence implies this. In all its occurence, it indicate a separation of soul from body. In any case, the usage of this word in Qur'an 3:55 questions traditional Muslim belief that Jesus was raised alive, body and soul.

Next, AlBaqir 's interpretation of Qur'an 4:179 is flawed.

Qur'an 4:159:
"And there is not one of the people of the Book but most certainly shall believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he (`Isa) shall be a witness against them"

AlBaqir: It is apparent from the Divine Words, And there is not one of the people of the Book...', that `Isa (a. s) is alive near Allah and that he will not die until all the people of the Book shall believe in him. Keeping all these factors in view, the word " At-tawaffi, used in the verse under discussion, would only mean that Allah was to take him away completely from among the Jews. Yet the verse does not say so clearly; it is only its apparent connotation.

If all the people of the Book are going to believe in Jesus before his death upon his re-emergence as per Baqir 's interpretation, why are many people of the Book living and dieing daily when Jesus haven't even return? Why are they living and dieing daily without believing in Jesus. This reality dismiss the OP 's interpretation of the verse.

Let 's see the line; 'his death' in this verse. 'His' here refer to each one of the people of the Book. If you inteprete 'his' as refering to Jesus, you reach an unrealistic conclusion as i have pointed above.

Empiree:
You have a problem here. If prophet Muhammad(Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household)'s explanation of some verses of Quran are to be recorded along with Quran (within Quran) as you implied, then, that's distortion. People would have problem distibguishing word of Allah from his prophet. There would have been mix ups like Bible for instance. Word of Allah is Quran, tafsir must be separated. Very simple

Wasalam

so, weren't there enough papers for Muhammad to record his explanations separately in Book format before his death, as he recorded the Qur'an?

Now, i can see why you were so opposed to the original post. You obviously read the thread i recommended haphazardly and misunderstand my word. Plus, you seem to have a lot of catching up to do as far as Qur'anic study goes.

Peace, Joyful77

A Sincere Advice To Orthodox Muslims

Why go feuding all day with Christians in Religion section when you have so much to address in your theology? Those Christians don't have to worry about their co-religionists commiting the above crimes in the name of God. How many times do we learn of Christians persecuting or oppressing human or women right activists, liberals, religious critics or religious minorities in the name of God like Muslims do in Saudi Arabia or Iran?

The time to converge, admit the issue with your theology and revise it is long overdue. From killing apostates & blasphemers to mutilating genitals and down to insurgencies, your religious thought play are huge role.

Female genital mutilation, banned by the WHO, seems to be common in the three Muslim-majority southern provinces of Thailand, but officials are taking no action....

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/apr/01/thailand-muslim-south-authorities-blind-eye-fgm-who


For orthodox Muslims, there no certain instruction for FGM in the Qur'an or Hadith. But, the Imams of fiqh whose interpretation of Islamic law is largely adopted in the Muslim world does recommend FGM.

Orthodox Islamic traditions

-fortell the loss of Islamic knowledge with passage of time & death of scholars
-and declare the 1st 3 generations of Muslims as the best who would never agree on a wrong.

The implication is that Muslim scholars like Imam of fiqh from the earlier generation are the most learned in Islam and hence their teachings form the third source of Islamic law beside Qur'an and Hadith, known as 'Ijma'. As such, mainstream Muslim authorities reccomend taqlid, strictly appealing to teachings of the ancient scholars especially for matters like FGM not clear in the Scripture or their Tradition.

Since the 'Ijma' or concensus of the earlier Muslim scholars and authorities recommend or obligates FGM, FGM becomes a doctrine inherent to orthodox Islam.

Empiree:
They, "Quranites" also use this verse of Quran to justify their stand. The verse is located in sura Nahl 89

"....And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims.

They say this is an evidence that we dont need the Sunnah because everything has been clarified. These people fail to read Quran correctly. They only read whatever juz they desire. But a verse in the same chapter says:

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

So who would do the clarification to the people what was sent down upon them?. The prophet (Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household). Very simple. If Qur'an was clear without the explanation of prophet(PBUH) this verse would have no meaning. So how do we achieve this?. The answer is in Qur'an itself:

The word 'litubayyinah' in that verse mean to make manifest and known, not to explain with surplus details. Example, if Qur'an 5:6 explaining ablution is revealed, only Muhammad knows about it and its ruling at first, others are unaware. Muhammad makes clear and manifest to others, what had been revealed to only him by reading and recording it 4 others. This is what this verse mean. The revealation of God is fully detailed(Qur'an 6:114).

Think, if Muhammad did explain Qur'an as traditionalists imply, he would have recorded this explanations along with the Qur'an.

Peace!

Metal Gear Solid 3. The final battle between the Boss and the Big Boss.

Joyful77:
I don't think that you're sincere. Your threads reek of hostility towards Islam... At best you're an atheist, NOT a Muslim.

You people should desist from shameless pretexts abeg!!

I am a Muslim, i just do not happen to be a traditional Muslim.
Here is one of my topics that clearly express my views on Islamic monotheism;

www.nairaland.com/2112171/undercover-polytheism

I don't care if you consider me a Muslim or not. You can call me atheist, Christian, agnostic and all you want. But most of you traditional Muslims are the trouble with Islam, and topics after topics, i have spent my time proving the difference between your religion and true Islam deserted by Muslims as Qur'an 25:30 fortells. And here is an example;

www.nairaland.com/1880974/puzzled-guide-jizya

PS: Ifeann, don't be fooled by those hidding behind Qur'an now that some fallacies of their traditions have been exposed. There are several hadith contradicting Qur'an or unconfirmed by the Qur'an that these traditionalists keep.

Here are few examples; The Mahdi, the punishment of the grave, Muhammad interceeding for believers, Muhammad performing miracles and several other doctrines and statutes. Given that, isn't it dishonest for these same people to come deny a certain hadith on ground that the hadith contradict Qur'an?

Ifeann:
Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

The word “tawaffa” refers to physical death.

Some of. u Muslims believe that the term "cause thee to die" or terminate (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) need not refer to physical death as it can have other meanings. It can refer to God snatching the body of Jesus away physically to Himself.



The words "tawaffaytani" and "mutawafeeka" are forms of the Arabic word “tawaffa”.

The word mutawafeeka cannot possibly refer to God snatching Jesus' body physically without his experiencing physical death.

The verb in Arabic (mutawafeeka) is used in the Quran with only two meanings.

The word is used 23 times in the Quran and 21 out of the 23 times, it refers to physical death. Only two times, it refers to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.


Why did he kill isa

Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!

I love this linguistic analysis. The Qur'an does confirms Jesus death. This has been my conclusion after thorough literal and linguistic analysis of relevant verses free from preconcieved notions. Am amazed that a Christian also reached this conclusion with the Qur'an.

What the Qur'an doesn't confirm is Jesus ressurrection or re-emergence prior to Amaggedon.

You shouldn't discount the possibility that some of these bloggers or writers are not atheists but Muslims battling extremism and fanaticm. As a Muslim committed to combating Islamist or extreme ideas within the Muslim world, i have had fanatic Muslims accuse me of disbelief or apostasy just to discredit or write me off. This is a typical response of fanatic Muslims to critique and debunk of their ideology. This accusation is more of a defamation to push other Muslims to excommunicate you or even assassinate you. Even here on NL, i 've had this experience, but thank God i live in a country that protect my right to expression.

Conclusion

This closes the topic. Religious jerks aren't too hard to hit and identify. It is also noteworthy that these jerks may be the most courteous person in other areas of life. But once it pertain to religion, they become typical jerks and as.sholes. Hopefully this piece should be your guide to them.

Such jerks can also be rude when you confront them, they 'll accuse and blackmail you. I recall a friend during my undergraduate days had to deal with bitter dispute and malice with a Muslim roommate whom he calmly confronted for noise, disturbing those asleep as he prepared for his dawn prayer.



The Key

Those are typical jerks you don't want to encounter. If you do, don't let them rule you. Believe me, these jerk wont give you a break for the slightest discomfort you cause them. Report to authorities after you have calmly approached them in vain, otherwise separate from them if it becomes intolerable.

5. They are egoistic and self-centred

You can't miss this, most religious jerks have fat egos and hardly admit their faults. This is a product of their fascist and supremacist stance. You could devote all your time rationalizing, analyzing and elaborating to clarify why it is their fault but all will be in vain. Arguing with these jerks is like arguing with a stone. In fact, it is counterproductive. They will deny, decieve or bemoan to disown their fault and blame it on others.

Additionally, they are self-centred and inconsiderate of others' views or feelings. I lived in a neighbourhood last year where i could never get a decent siesta because of a nearby Church. I respect the right of centres of worships to hold activities, but using this as an avenue to cause noise beyond the walls of the temple with speakers or musical instruments is unethical. While a reasonable fraction of Christians in such Churches may admit this is a fault, there are jerks that don't give a damn. That goes for Synagogues and Mosques too.

AlBaqir:
@Bold, so you don't bother too much with his wack ideology.
_______________

You 've been one of 'em, haven't you?

As-Salat is described in Surah al-Ankabut as a great remembrance (of Allah) - Dhikrillahi akbar. The word Dhikr (Remembrance) is among the names of the Qur'an revealed by Allah. Indeed Qur'an is full of remembrance of God.

During Salat, Muslims are expected to focus and concentrate in the "remembrance of Allah". Reciting the "Remembrance of Allah (Qur'an)" during the course of "greater Remembrance of Allah (Salat)" does rationally makes sense.

Salat is systematic that an Imam is appointed to lead. He is saddled with the responsibility of reminding the Ma'moon (followers) with the "remembrance of Allah (Quran)". Here, you see God-conscious people crying in the course of "greater remembrance (Salat)".

What we recite in Ruku, Sujud, and every steps are equally "remembrance of Allah".

Wa Salam alaykum brother.

No doubt, salat does reminds one of God. But it is not all about remembrance of God. It originate from 'salla' which mean to contact, connect or link to. When we perform Salat, we invoke or talk to God bearing in mind that he is hearing and responding. Reciting verses narrating an event, discussing a personality or prophesying a miracle defies this logic. Of course, it reminds one of God, but that state of contact or communication between man and God that salat means, is missing.

You don't narrate a story to God, you don't address God with words like 'Say', which commences several verses or chapters in Qur'an. You don't recount laws from your scripture to God. You glorify, praise and thank God when you stand before him.

PLUS: Certain verses of the Qur'an like Chapter one does address God directly and so are perfect for salat. The reverse is the case for most Quranic verses that most Muslims memorize and recite in their salat.

Their dogmatic mentality summarises their poor zeal and incompetence for rational, logical analysis of religious ideas and their preference for invoking God excessively, threaten you with Hell, pointing fingers and employing other unfair psychological strategies to assert their views and stall dialectics.



The Key:

As earlier said, ignore these jerks. Dogmatic people usually have nothing to offer. They tend to be militant and could force their views on you if they are empowered. Be mindful of their psychological tactics, if you fall for it, you may be engulfed in guilt and remorse whereas you are actually doing a good job. Reason over dogmas.

4. They Have A Dogmatic Mindset

Whenever i express my views verbally or written, i follow up with academic, logical and moral proof. In fact, views do not matter. What the genuine truth seekers desire is the strength of the proofs. However, even if you present the strongest proofs, religious jerks lash out at you and paint you as the devil 's advocate provided you contradict their views. And there isn't a question of how formal and polite you present yourself, ask them even a simple question that challenges their view, they 'll bash you regardless.

They seldom present concise proof to back their views or reject your view. They often appeal to names and mass value. What ever contradict the mainstream or their famous jurists is foul and must not be considered. Thus they seldom take their time to objectively, rationally analyze proof, after all these folk are limited by tunnel vision and never think outside the box.

Salaam.

I 'll like to draw our attention to something else since the earlier questions have been treated.

This question goes to those reciting Qur'an chapters back to God in their salah. Salah mean invoking or communicating with your Lord. It is a way of addressing God besides du'a/supplication. There are lots of verses that covers stories, prophesies, description and laws in the Qur'an. Take for instance, Suratul Quraysh

1. For the taming of the Quraish,

2. the (Quraish) caravans to set forth safe in winter, and in summer,

3. So let them worship the Lord of this House.

4. Who has fed them against hunger, and has made them safe from fear.

These were verses revealed to be recited to mankind. How then can you recite the same thing back to the Revealer?

Let see Suratul Kafirun.

1. (Qul)Say (O Muhammad ): "O disbelievers

2. "I worship not that which you worship,

3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.

4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.

5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.

6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion.

Those were words Muhammad was ordered to say to the disbelievers. The use of the word 'Qul'(Say) at the start of the chapter confirms this. How can you then stand before God and say these same words back to God, even starting with 'Qul', are you commanding God to say those words?

Another Chapter, like Suratul Khaf or Yusuf is full of narration of earlier time events, when you recite these chapters in your salat, it is akin to narrating those events back to God, the original narrator.

Does any of these sound logical?