₦airaland Forum

joywendy:
@usermane
see i know how you feel. To have so much pain that you feel like the floor should just open and swallow you up.

One of the ways you can relieve yourself of this pain is to talk to someone about this. You cant keep on carry all this at heart it is not healthy at all.

Also stop beating yourself up, losses happen, failures happen that doesn't mean life is over.

Thanks a lot for your concern. Perhaps i may lighten my heart by confiding in someone, but even then it has to be someone really close to me, someone that can relate. This pain am suffering can cause anyone a whole lot. Thanks a lot.

No, am not feeling suicidal. But am in pain, i live through psychological pain. I need help, am looking for a way to numb my pain.

Am dealing with pain everyday, am trying to walk away from a life of pain. I need to take it light, my heart is growing cold, am trying harder to hide my pain from the people that i know. Am trying to get things right as much as i can but it all seem there is something that am missing. Despite all effort rid myself of this pain, it continue to lurk around me. It is making me feel there is no other way, but to give up everything.

Am hoping and praying for better days ahead. So, please share your ideas on how to numb emotional pain that emanate from personal losses or failure, pain that cannot be instantly healed but must be numb and managed over time.

Thank You.

^^^
so sad these are our fellow Muslim brothers.

Mr. Areolad, you are not doing anything better than further slandering the Prophet here. Your argument is so flawed that i couldn't resist responding. Of course, it is true that Muhammad never married and cohabited with a minor or immature, but according to mainstream Islamic narratives which your argument tend to appeal to, he did. Lets see the traditional understanding of this matter.

Was Aisha a mature woman when she married the Muhammad, according to traditional Muslim narratives ?

Sahih Bukhari>>Book of Good Manners
Narrated `Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fath-ul-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Going by the above traditions, the answer is NO. A fully mature woman wont be playing with toys with her friends and hiding shyly upon her husband 's arrival.


Was Aisha fully mature before consummating her marriage, according to traditional Muslim texts?

Sunan Abu Dawud>>Book Of Marriage

Narrated 'Aishah:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: or Six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.

Am, sorry but you clearly contradict the same narratives you seek to appeal. This Hadith states otherwise. In any age or region, a six year old still playing with dolls cannot be emotionally, mentally or anatomically mature for marriage and sex even within the next three years.


Admit, there is a problem with your Hadith, admit that even Sahih Hadith could be fabricated. Stop buying and selling cheap apologetics, get educated properly about your religious texts, stop slandering messengers of God with traditions of men and reform your theology or religious narratives.

vedaxcool:
Three Muslim students murdered at North Carolina campus

No breaking news here !? @CNN @BBCWorld @FOXTV @washingtonpost @NewYorkTimes11 #ChapelHillshooting

Muslims really need to learn how to cry like the west when things like these happen!

You know, while i feel this attack was motivated by religion or anti-Islamic bias, there are is not enough evidence to prove the victims were attacked for their religious beliefs. All we have are speculations or suppositions. Compare this with the Charlie Hebdo shooting where the attackers kept invoking Islam. You should do your research well before jumping to conclusion, the fact that all the victims were were Muslims doesn't certify that their murder was a product of hate for Islam. I sympathize with the family of the victims, but please stop exploiting this to fuel Muslim victim hood.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/12/us/chapel-hill-shooting-hate-crime-explainer/

Salaam!

Please watch this video on the troubles with Sahih Hadith. We all agree that the Prophet was foremost in abiding by the Qur'an in speech and deeds than anyone else, the Hadith which are said to be the prophet 's words and deeds should therefore conform with the Qur'an. What if we find an Hadith that is classed sahih but contradict the Qur'an? What if we find numerous Hadith contradicting Qur'an in the official Hadith collections? How can we still trust such collections?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drPjFNFmYjc


Why Trash All Hadith?

Some of us admit there are grave problems with Hadith Books but we refuse to trash those books partly because we find beautiful teachings in those books too. There isn't a problem with learning from beautiful hadith as there isn't a problem with learning from beautiful novels or documentaries. As long as you do not accrue divine status and Islamic authority to those Hadith and you realize that even a beautiful Hadith may also be a fabrication, that is fine. But, the best bet is to focus on the Qur'an alone, how ever beautiful that Hadith is, the Qur'an already has the message and even better messages. Plus, some Hadith may seem beautiful, a deeper analysis reveals otherwise. So one need to be very careful.

Ifeann:
Usermane, my favorite muslim... How u been.. That my topic was moved to the Islamic section. I am not a muslim and don't want to offend them with the truth so I don't post things there...but I did see ur clever post.

Anyway Here is why I call him a moderate muslim.

1.He takes me as a good friend and asks me for guidance and advice on certain issues even though this is forbidden in the quran.

Seeking advice from non-Muslims isn't prohibited in the Qur'an. Even if am wrong, i don't see how taking advice from non-Muslims renders one a moderate. Aside Islamic matters, every Muslim seek advice from even non-Muslims on areas like food, work and others not related to spirituality.

2.He is not very devout because I know he sleeps around. Even tho he could be stoned to death in an Islamic country.

3.He doesn't drink tho but he is a hardcore smoker

Nobody is perfect, i don't need to be devout and puritan to be an Islamist. Besides, Islamism is more of a political mindset than religion.

4.He prays 5times a day tho..

Again, praying 5x daily is not a proof that one is an Islamist. Neither is praying only 2xce or 3xce daily a proof that one is a moderate.

5. I doubt if he is pro killing of apostates but he is pro killing gays.

Islamists may disagree on certain laws like killing an apostate, but that doesn't make them a moderate. Such Islamists may be willing to coerce apostates back to Islam through oppression, threat or force.

6. His girl friend doesn't wear a veil and he doesn't force her too.

Maybe he has tried and failed, or maybe he is bidding his time. Maybe his girlfriend doesn't believe in the veil or hijab. By the way, the veil is not even an Islamic recommendation. In the near future, i will create a topic on that.

You give the idea that Islamists can be identified by their clothing or appearance, this is not true. I know of a Muslim sage with long beards, dresses in traditional robes, his views qualifies him as a moderate Muslim than many so called moderate Muslim who shave their beards, dress in western suits and practice law or medicine. Of course, Islamists tend to be puritanical and traditional, but if you think one is a moderate Muslim because he shaves instead of keeping lengthy beards, use a bandana instead of a full headscarf, dates and chat with the opposite gender online, you are wrong from the rock bottom.

There isn't a clear distinction between islamists and moderate Muslims. A muslim can have several attributes from both ends of the spectrum.

You reach this conclusion because, you are intertwining Islamism and Islam, assuming an Islamist is conservative and the devout Muslim while the moderate Muslim is a liberal Muslim that isn't devout but forgoes part of his Islamic teachings. That isn't correct. I wont conclude on your friend yet, but once i collect enough of his views and examine them in the light of the four criteria i listed in your former thread, i can draw conclusion.

Ifeann:
A lot of Muslims think like him but don't practise it.. one of my closest friend is a nigerian Muslim. .. we were discussing the growing problem of homosexuality during the conversation he said he wouldn't hesitate to kill a homosexual... this is a guy who is a moderate out going Muslim. .. we have been out and about and have come across homosexuals but he never killed anyone. ..why.... because in europe u don't kill homos..unlike in the Muslim world. .

Hi Ifeann, i think there is a contradiction between your two lines underlined above. If he believes that homos are to be killed, how can you call him a moderate Muslim? It is very important to distinguish moderate Muslims from pseudo moderate Muslims. My last posts on your last thread(https://www.nairaland.com/2134720/why-islamophobe/1) covered this issue thoroughly.

Mr Empiree, you r taking this too personal. You are also trying to point out that Islam 's solution to adolescence/teenage sexual relations is Child marriage and that is wrong. There are just too many better ways to curtail adolescent sexual relationship, unfortunately you have chosen to view this through only the lens of your religious beliefs.

Additionally, child marriage is not merely a solution to Child prostitution or fornication in the Muslim world, it is a stand-lone practice that is justified and recognized as Adult marriage. Remember that in 1979, after the "Islamic" revolution in Iran that gave way for a theocratic state ruled by Shari'ah, Ayatollah Khomeini and his circle of clerics reduced the marriageable age for women from 18 to 9. His motive for this move wasn't necessarily to to curb sexual relationship among adolescents but to confirm Child marriage as unquestionable and inherent to Islam.

Hence, forget about adolescent/teenage fornication or prostitution for once, and you will realize that even Child marriage is harmful and unhealthy for the society. This is the point of the original post.

He still didnt get it. This thread is basically intended to hypocritically malign muslims.

If the aim of this thread is to malign Islam, then i guess you should be used to non-Muslims maligning Islam by now. Go straight to the point. Not every non-Muslim out here is interested in maligning Islam.

Simple. Hadith of Aisha married to prophet @ 6 is false. Doesn't bother me if it's in suhih. I have long head this view. Kufar are not ready to accept it and that's their headache.

They wont accept that the Hadith is false because mainstream ulamas and their ancestors authenticate the Hadith and as long as you continue to endorse these ulamas and revere them, non-Muslims will take them as true voice of Islam.

Empiree:
People no longer think. Nothing wrong with her getting married even at that age (as long as all necessities are met). As someone rightly said, what's wrong is not sending her to school.

This is not about Islam. It's about those people, region, country etc. A 13 yr old muslim lady living in the west, pregnant and may be going to school. May be in good condition. etc. Would you mention Islam in bad light if you see her(13 yr old pregnant muslim) in this great condition?. People think please.

Because of that, someone capitalizes and seeks opportunity to accuse islam while a lot is going on in her backyard. And there is nothing to read in arrogant posts. They are not beneficial. We are told in hadith of widespread ignorance in the Last Age which is exactly what she's doing. And I personally see no need talking to her anymore. We are branded liar if we answer her/them. So what is it to talk about. Sorry madam, you know who you are. Islam remains the truth religion even though kufar hate it. And that slowpoke needs to stop my mentioning. Sick man.

You can see that you keep beating about the bush. You even taunt non-Muslims at the end of your post, this expresses a huge weakness in your position. Unless, you are willing to adopt a more critical and rational stance to religion rather than sheer compliance with traditions or clerics, you will continue to pay through your nose. You will dare not allow non-Muslims post in your section because you get upset over the slightest criticism. You will clutch to straw man argument, window dressing and wallow in victim-hood to save you from drowning in the ocean of criticism.

Oh, and lest i forget, remember you denied on another thread that mainstream/orthodox Islam doesn't promote Pedophilia. Have a look at this:

Sunan Abu Dawud
Book of Marriage>>Hadith 2116
Narrated 'Aishah:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: or Six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.

Good day!

johnydon22:
Ok most of you here know i am not a christian either am i a muslim.
Am a humanist and i quiet make myself out to be agnostic atheist in views.
ok now to the issue of the matter.

I was going somewhere with my brother, talking as we were going.
We saw a little muslim girl approaching from the front.
She was clad in a purple hijab and was heavily pregnant carrying a bucket of whatever it is she was selling.
We didnt pay much mind to her until she came very close and we saw she was just a child not more than 13, already subjected to this type of thing.
She should be in school or even if not she definately should still be under the full protection and care of her parents.
I and my brother felt like following her to her house and beating the hell out of that man that has done such nonsense to such a little girl.
I cried so hard when i got home, not just for her but for millions of girls who are victims of such un-human act all over the world all in the name of Religion!!!

Please my muslim brothers and sisters "Is this right (moral)

Yeah, some conservative and traditional interpretation of Islam condone this on authority of a hearsay report that Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6 and consummated the marriage 3 years later. It is however contrary baseless from Qur'anic point of view.

Empiree:
Honestly, while i dislike to type this, for record purposes i should. @bold, your understanding is pretty much deficient.

Islam doesn't permit such things especially the way you summed is very ridiculous. I think you should do us favor and join your brothers and sisters in Christendom. No one is forcing you to be "muslim". I hate two-faced people.

If a muslim or group does @bold in modern world, they do it out of their own mischief. Qur'an gradually abolished slavery and once prophet passed, that's. No more such things. What's happening at Gitmo is obviously slavery but you won't say anything about it.

You don't understand how they systematically secularized their religion from their filthy way of life so that we won't blame their religion but (maybe) country or individual in their ranks. While they in fact follow their religious text deceptively.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10028

You really are a glutton for argument. Times and again i have posted your Tafsir, Hadith and Ijma promoting certain unholy practices as i mentioned above. Keep dwelling in denial or false reality.

@underlined, I do not have time to be condemning Christianity, West or non-Muslims. You can do that as much as you want. For all i care, my religion has been distorted into a tool of terror, oppression and regression by so called Muslims and i can't stand it. You can call me whatever you want, delete my topics, suspend my account, threaten or vilify me. But as far as the pen is concerned, there is nothing i wont do and no line i wont cross to reveal the truth, however appealing or offensive it is.

Abuamam:
Now for this incident of Salim:

Imam Abu al-Abbas al Qurtubi states in his commentary of Sahih Muslim:

“Salim (in this Hadith) is Salim ibn Ma’qal…Abu Hudhayfa had adopted him in accordance with the customs of the Arabs. He (Salim) had been brought up and raised by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife as their own son. When the verse of the Qur’an was revealed...

“Call them (your adopted children) by (the names of) their (real) fathers….”
Surah al-Ahzab, V: 5

the ruling of adopting children was abrogated. However, Salim continued to reside and enter the house of Sahla (the wife of Abu Hudhayfa) as he was a minor. When he grew old and came to puberty, both Abu Hudhayfa and Sahla disliked the idea of him entering freely upon Sahla, but they found it difficult to mention this to him, given the fact that he had lived with them from his infancy, hence they asked the Messenger of Allah (saw) regarding this. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said to Sahla: “Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and that which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear” hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)…”
(al-Mufhim lima Ashkal min talkhis Kitab Muslim, 4/186,
Dar Ibn Kathir print

The above clearly illustrates that Salim was adopted by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife Sahla. He had lived with them and was raised and brought up by them since infancy. However, Islam does not recognize legal adoption and a adopted child is not considered a real child, hence after reaching puberty, the rules of Hijab became applicable. It became very difficult for Salim to live with his adoptive mother due to this rule, thus the Messenger of Allah (saw), advised Sahla to make Salim drink her breast-milk, whereby the rules of Hijab would be lifted.

This is a very flimsy excuse to have a woman breastfeed an adopted adult son. There are so many ways to go about that circumstance other than breastfeeding. How about Abu Hudhayfa knocking or greeting before entering upon Salma? How about creating another room or a wall to separate Abu Hudhayfa and Salma? How about sending Abu Hudhayfa to a relative of his adopted parents?

You may check the Qur'an 24:31 for cases where dress code may be lifted. Suckling wasn't mentioned.

It is also narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one’s awra in front of a non-Mahram adult let alone have him suckled.
Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, FOR SAHLA DID NOT DIRECTLY SUCKLE SALIM, as he had reached puberty.
Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has also mentioned this in his al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)

The Arabic word used in the texts is ''الرضاع'', which mean to suckle or breastfeed or nurse. That is not necessarily the same as drinking milk from a container.

This leaves us with the question whether is it allowed for an adult to drink breast-milk, and what implications would that hold? This would help us to understand the 'ruling' of the Egyptian sheikh, which the op quoted, but refused to provide a link to verify the truth of...

It is a well-known and recognised fact amongst virtually all Muslim jurists, that suckling is not permitted after two (or two and a half) years, neither does it affect the rules of Hijab and marriage. The Messenger of Allah (saw) quite clearly mentioned this in one Hadith where he said:

“…suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period.”
(Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455)

The Messenger of Allah (saw) also said:

“Suckling (radha’a) does not prohibit (i.e. marriage) except which penetrates the intestines (meaning which serves as a nourishment for the child) from the breasts, and it is prior to weaning.”
(Recorded by Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, no. 1152)

Due to the above narrations, all four Sunni schools of Islamic law are in agreement that suckling and breastfeeding will only be considered (i.e. in effecting the rules of marriage and Hijab) if it takes place in the period designated for it, and it is of no significance after that period. Thus, scholars mention that the permission given by the Messenger of Allah (saw), was specific to Salim and his adoptive mother.

"This is what the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, thought about the suckling of an older person."

You need to complete the original Hadith:

A'isha umm al-muminin took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her. She ordered her sister, Umm Kulthum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddiq and the daughters of her brother to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, refused to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'

If we look at the full Hadith, we find that ruling wasn't specific to Salma and Abu Hudhayfa alone. I think this subject is disputed among your clergy as Muta is. But in the end, there is more evidence from your religious narratives supporting Muta/Suckling than opposing them. And thus, however, ill intentioned truthman2012 is to create such a topic, he has a point.

One reason why i turned from Islamic orthodoxy is that i was fed up with hypocrisy and self-righteousness. I couldn't continue in a religion that condemned courtship, friendship or handshake between opposite genders while promoting sex slavery/concubines, pedophilia or adult-nursing/suckling. Fella, such a religion cannot be from God.

mizkeleke:
I mean for the first time

Friendship comes to mind first, then dating. I prefer a bit of friendship before moving on to dating.

mizkeleke:
Guys when you see a lady you are attracted to, what comes to your mind?

Rephrase your question. Do you mean seeing her for the first time ever or each time i see her?

Ifeann: I am not trying to "cage" them like u said but trying to set them free with truth.

Ma'am, but in the end you nailed them, hammered them, they turned to personal attack in their desperation to find fault in your beliefs. Sometimes telling the truth or criticizing others only enrages them, hardening their hearth. In several instances, i refused to step in to defend Islam because i acknowledge that your allegations are true to an "Islam" that is out there. By the way, you seem to be getting under the skin of Islam section agents. Do take a break.

Ifeann: Pay attention in the 46th minute mark and hear a morderate muslim complain about an extremist Muslims imam using al Taqiyya, he refered to it as double discourse.

That is a very important observation. I tend to relate with you on the subject of Taqqiya. Islamists or Islamofascists have a clay face. They use this face to appeal to their audience, to recruit and proselytize. Unless you know their true face by studying their interpretation of the Qur'an(Hadith, Tafsir, ijma, Sirat), you would be fooled into their arms. They may deny violence and terrorism but like green snakes in the grasses, they are more venomous than terrorists like Al Qaida or Boko Haram who are frank who are frank and open about their agenda.

BabaGnoni:
Hmm, thank you...
I've just finished watching it
The below at the beginning (i.e. 1:06 - 1:10) reverberated in my ears throughout watching the video
1:06 if it was not illegal to kill or
1:10 if they would guarantee that there would be no punishment, some of us will be dead by now

You are surprised to learn that? There are several Muslims who stood in the name of their faith against the tide of Islamism and met their death at the hands of the Islamists. Farag Foda was assasinated in the early '90s by the Muslim Brotherhood, for standing against the clergy in defense of Egyptian Copts. In 2011, Salman Taseer(a Pakistan Governor) was assassinated at the behest of Muslim clerics for condemning blasphemy laws in Pakistan and defending Aasia Bibi. Raif Badawi is currently in prison and under flogging in Saudi Arabia for criticizing the state and her interpretaion of Islam, promoting Islamic reform. Muhammad Taha, Rashad Khalifa, and Tahiri deserve mention too.

You may reject their faith but these were men who stood for justice, freedom, equity(regardless of religion or gender) and human rights in contrast to the likes of Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama Bin Ladin, Yusuf Al Qaradawi still celebrated in the Muslim world despite all their evil.

Contemporary Muslims like Ahmed Subhy Mansur, Edip Yuksel, Qanta Ahmed, Tarek Fatah, Zuhdi Jasser, Raheel Raza or Irshad Manji have received death threats from Islamists. Not all of them reject Hadith, but they all agree that the mainstream interpretation or teachings of Islam is the root of Islamist aggression/oppression and a revamp or revision of the Islamic narratives is necessary. Some have been declared apostates by the clerics and had to flee their home in the Middle east for political asylum in the West. If they had remained in Iran, Saudi Arabia or Sudan, they might have been dead or rotting in jail by now.

I guess we have the Christian West to thank. In Shari'ah compliant societies, a Muslim doesn't need to vocally denounce Islam to be declared an apostate by the clerics. And once declared an apostate, he could be be judicially executed or randomly murdered by any Islamist.