₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Quran 40:11-12]They say: Our Lord! Twice hast Thou made us die, and twice hast Thou made us live. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go out?
This is because, when God Alone was invoked you disbelieved, but when partners were joined to Him, you believed! So the judgement is only with Allah, the Most High, the Most Great!"[/quote]Despite the fact that Muhammad would never mention another name along with God in his rituals, despite the fact that Muhammad is not the only or greatest messenger of God, many have been misled into reverencing and commemorating him daily in their rituals, setting him as a partner of God.

Of course, acknowledging and respecting an individual is fine but when this become incorporated into religious rites where all devotions, respect and reverence should be be due to God, that individual has being joined alongside God in worship, associated with God and this is polytheistic. Paradoxically, the same people who insist their mention of Muhammad is mere respect and not idolization will be utterly displeased as the above verse has stated, where a fellow did not mention Muhammad in his ritual. Trust me, i have been there before. I publicly commenced my salat, reverencing God without Muhammad and the Muslims who heard me went berserk!

Commemoration and Reference

[quote author=Quran 39:45]When GOD ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied[/quote]Alas, the single verse in the scriptures that summarizes polytheism; aversion to God Alone. Phony monotheists and typical polytheists are dissatisfied when only God is commemorated and reverenced during their religious rites. Except for Synagogues, you will not set foot in any temple where only God is referenced. It is either God + Jesus in the Churches or God + Muhammad in the Mosques. Particularly in the call to prayers(Adhan), start of prayers(Iqama) and declaration of faith(shahada), most Muslims reverence Muhammad alongside God. Their justification for this that they intend no more than acknowledge and pay Muhammad due respect as God 's messenger.

What does Polytheism entails?

The Book of God often defines polytheism as associating partners with God or joining others along with God in worship. Quranic reference on polytheism covers;

A. Commemoration and Reverence.

B. Religious rulings from other than God.

C. Intercession.

D. Veneration and Consecration.

E. Invocation


We will discuss each of this elements drawing comparisms between the historic Arab polytheism and orthodox or mainstream Islam.


TO BE UPDATED

And most of them believe not in God without associating others with Him~ Quran 12:106

We often oversimplify idolatry or polytheism to mere disbelief in God and prostration before other deities. In the text of the scriptures, polytheism is a broader issue that may manifest in several areas of our spiritual life. So serious is this issue that it was discussed far more than any other issue in the Qur'an.

In the course of this paper, we will realize how distant mainstream Islam stands from pristine Islam and how a purely monotheistic faith has been reverted into a polytheistic cult by adherents of this same faith, leading themselves and whoever seek Islam farther from it.

Against The Grain

One reason why i have a hard time identifying myself with the word "Muslim" is that i find the creed of mainstream Muslims too contrary to the teachings of the scriptures. In a world where the clergymen and jurists define the Muslim creed, i rise against the grain.

Foreword

The information you are about to read has been researched and verified by the writer to the best of his knowledge. It is in the interest of the readers particularly the Muslims to follow suit. The writer used to be the typical next door Muslim, but series of revelations like what you are about to read led him to rediscover Islam and reform.

Empiree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X706Ne4dmpQ

Alright, but what about the Hadith teachings on salawat that i talked earlier? He is a convert, so at this stage, he may be unfamiliar with the Hadith viewpoint on salawat. Of course it is easy to defend that salawat is not idolization of Muhammad from the Quranic perspective alone but it is impossible to do the same from a Quran + sunnah perspective.

Ifeann: Here are some of my reasons why ucan't eject the hadiths. ..
As a muslim How do you knw how to pray and how many times... it's the hadith that tells you

First, there are 5 periods specified for Salat in the Qur'an.
Secondly, Salat mean a contact or connection with God. It is a flexible ritual that was well known to the Arabs, Greek and Persians before the Qur'an. Muhammad wasn't taught Salat.

So, we don't need to be taught. Each individual may perform his Salat alternatively. What must be constant are glorification, reverence and invocation. Hence, if you do not find the steps of mainstream Muslim salat in the Qur'an, it is because God wills not to impose any step on believers, not because Quran is incomplete.

How do you know what to pay as zakat ....it's the hadith that tells you

Zakat mean an act to purify one 's self and wealth. It is not limited to spending out of one 's wealth. Remember that the Qur'an is the criterion for judging Muslims. If the amount to be spent is not mentioned in the Qur'an, it mean the mainstream Muslim fixed and imposed their amount on themselves. The Quran silence on certain matters let man to decide for himself based on circumstances.

So many verses of the quran lacks context unless u read the hadiths a popular verse is sura 1: 11..it's the hadith that tells you

Pardon, Chapter 1 has 7 verses, no 11th verse. Qur'an defines itself as fully detailed, clear and self explained, therefore it bears it own context. Every information in the text can be understood from the text itself.

Your quran tells you in sura 23:31 to copy the life of Mohammed as the example to follow, Mohammeds name is only mentioned 4 times in the quran. .very little of Mohammed is described therein ... so how do u learn the examples of his deeds and to live like Mohammed . ...it's the hadith that tells you

It is Qur'an 33:21 that commend Muhammad as an excellent character. Nevertheless, Muhammad got his examples by complying with the Qur'an and so all i need to follow his examples is to abide by the Qur'an. If Muhammad had other beneficial examples not found in the Qur'an, he would have officially documented it alongside the Qur'an instead of leaving such a delicate task to be completed by his followers 150 years after his death.

How do you know the shahadda..To become a muslim u must speak the shahadda...it's the hadith that tells you

Being a Muslim doesn't require an initiation where words are pronounced. Regardless,
the shahadah is in the Qur'an. Quran 3:18 confirms it as 'No god but God'. Orthodox Muslim clerics introduced a second shahadah on the messengership of Muhammad but that is their business. If it is not in the Qur'an, it is man-made. Period.

Ifeann:
My friend i have to be honest with you after reading your sources and listening to scholars discuss this issue i can submit to you that if a Muslim rejects the hadiths he or she rejects Islam and ceases to be a muslim. ... this is one point i will side with Muslims that berate u on this forum. .in some Muslim countries u will be branded a herectic or apostate and killed. ...

The way you look at it, is not how it is. I will put you to the same test you put me;

Most of you Christians reject the traditions of the Church, which were upheld by Christians for over a thousand years and revered as traditions from Jesus and the apostles. I reject the Muslim traditions partly for the same reasons you reject the Church traditions and yet you opin that your position is right and mine is wrong? I have read several articles by orthodox Christians affirming the authenticity and validity of the Church traditions.

U can't deny the hadith. .a lot of Muslims reject the hadith because they are embarrassed by the deeds of Mohammed.

I know how much credit Hadith teachings lend to your condemnation of Islam but forget it, i have stood firmly against the proponent of orthodoxy several times and bout after bout, i find more and more reasons not to waver on my position.


It is unfortunate that you opt to focus on certain Hadith and ignore others. Most of your criticisms of Muhammad like the infamous 'slaughter of Banu Qurayza Jews' can be refuted by historical analysis. You have to make a choice, either Muhammad commited all those crimes and split the moon as Hadith tells or he neither commited those crimes nor split the moon. There cant be a middle path.

Ifeann:
One idea u got wrong is on the killing of the cartoonists of Mohammed. Mohammed had several people killed for mocking him or criticizing him... according to your hadiths he approved of the murder of an old man in his 100s for writing a poem about Islam and he called for the eventual butchering of a breastfeeding mother in front of her kids... he murdered so manyothers for making fun of him....Below i will upload a pic on the murder of his critics from a passage from one of your authentic sources. ..

I think that concerns traditional Muslims like. I believe Hadith are lacking in Historical authenticity and Quranic validity, hence i don't buy Hadith. I have explained that to you in the past. Those 'authentic sources' which you cite against Muhammad also teach Muhammad performed several miracles like splitting the moon, do you believe that?



There were several corrupt rulers of Arabia after Muhammad. They needed justification for their crimes of killing their opposers. Hence, they employed phony scholars or clerics to fabricate the Hadith you are referring.

Ashtray

Once upon a time, i found myself recounting some of the havoc by Ayatollah Khomeini; first supreme ruler and cleric of post-revolution Iran adored in the Muslim world as a saint, sage and a kind of messiah. A Muslim woman sitting by rebuked me for slandering a 'noble, learned and exemplary Muslim'. As soon as i began citing my evidences and facts, she insist i drop the subject and respect the dead!

That event exactly captures the state of the Muslim world. Ignorance prevail, out of self-worship Muslims can often be found discussing the ills of the west and ignoring their own ills. Whoever attempt to address the ills in the Muslim society especially radicalism or religious coercion is either rebuked or forced to retreat.

Only last year, a Christian couple alleged to have disposed a copy of Quran were burnt to death in Pakistan, Mariam Ibrahim was sentenced to death and nearly executed for apostasy and adultery in North Sudan, two Churches in Katsina state of Nigeria were burnt down by Muslim mobs over an allegation that a secondary school teacher verbally dishonoured Muhammad during a class, Raif Badawi was arrested and is now serving a 10 year prison term with 1000 lashes for criticising the Saudi state and promoting more liberal, democratic and secular ideas on his blog. How many Muslims talk about these?

The 'noble Imams', the moderate, progressive, democratic, secular, intellectual and peaceful Muslims know this, understand this but never admit and organize to confront this cancerous mindset of dogmatism, fanatism and bigotry that is trending in the Muslim world.


END

Empiree:
Poor translation?. You have "correct translation?. This is not intermidiary thing. You talking about Arab pagans. I am talking about muslims here. No muslim believe direct contact with God is impossible. Thats false. Hadith you quoted has nothing to do with "direct contact". What do you think attracts non muslims to come to islam most?. Isnt direct contact?. When is comes to worship, basically, direct connection is what what it is in salat. It even seems to me that you dont fully understand concept of worship from salutation of the prophet. Salutation of the prophet (saw) is highly recommended. Sura 33:56 is God's command on believers. It's not shirk friend

I don't care what orthodox Muslims say, i am interested in their teachings. As the hadith stated, your faith insist that only upon sending greetings to Muhammad does prayer reaches God. This is not direct contact, Muhammad is like the mediator here.
See;

Abu Hurayrah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, “There is not one of you who sends his greetings upon me except that Allah returns the soul to my body (in the grave) and I return his greeting.” [Abu Dawood, Saheeh Al-Albani]

As in, Muhammad returns the greeting and the prayer is able to reach God according to the first hadith i cited.

Smoking Guns

However, sometimes i feel i am having a pipe dream. For one, only enlightenment and honesty will plant the seed for reform. There is too much ignorance and hypocrisy in the Muslim world for the seeds of reform to germinate. It is disappointing to note that many Muslims claim to be anti-ISIS, anti-Boko Haram, and blame the likes of Pamella Geller for painting all Muslims with one brush as terrors.
However in the Muslim world, where Islamism is the dominant theme, all Jews/Christians are painted evil with one brush, condemned as evil doers, enemies of Muslims, so filfthy that they musn't be allowed near the 'Holy Cities', deserving humiliation and subjugation by 'Jizya'.

The Muslim world is still offended and cannot get over the execution of Osama Bin Ladin or Saddam Hussein, yet these are men who persecuted and massacred innocent people.
On the flipside, several Muslims like Muhammad Taha, Farag Foda who lead peaceful movement, promoting justice, human rights, tolerance and freedom as Islamic values have been killed by mainstream Muslim authorities like the Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Wahhabi regimes. The Muslim world doesn't give a damn about these men.


TOPIC TO BE COMPLETED

Empiree:
What do you mean by they invoke Muhammad(Allah's blessing be upon him and his family)? Sending greeting and salutation on this great prophet is commanded in the Quran 33:56. It's not worship of him. It's asking God to send peace and salutation on him. Dont know what you thinking.

@underline is incorrect, it is derived from poor translation and interpretation of the verse.

What exactly those people say?.

No, it not like prayer will not be accepted. I think you need to upgrade your iman on this subject.... very weak usermane, very weak.

“Duaa is suspended between heaven and earth and none of it is taken up until you send blessings upon your Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.” [At-Tirmidhi, Hasan Al-Albani]

Your tradition above says it all. Arab pagan did believe that direct contact with God is not possible and only upon venerating certain idols do their prayer reach God.

Once you believe that contacting God is not possible without mentioning another being, you are associating that being with God.

Pipe Dreams

I still feel bitter over the whole incident with Mr. Hassan. That is why by noon that day, i didn't hesistate to walk out on the Muslims who were gathered for the bus to convey them for the weekly congregational Salat.

Those who understand me realize my resentment of the Muslim community. Still, i nuture dreams that one day, this community will realize their enemies live among them, lead them in worship and legislate for them regarding their religion and admit that by telling only half-truth, Muslims like Mr Hassan are like a bad mother spoiling a kid who just woefully failed final exams with extravagant gifts.


TOPIC TO BE UPDATED

Is Honour greater than Life?

Charlie Hebdo shooters and sympathizers justify their stance as defending Muhammad 's honour. It is difficult to fathom how killing has defended Muhammad 's honour. It think nothing violates Muhammad 's honour than his followers shedding blood indiscriminately as the shooters have done. Each time Muhammad has been 'defamed', the Muslim reaction has been bloody. Danish Cartoons and Salman Rushdie 's Satanic Verses comes to mind here.

We don't need to ask before we realize the relevance of Charlie Hebdo shooting in Paris to honour killings in Islamabad. As Muslim scholars declare death for any defamer, condemner or naysayer of Muhammad, they are ruling that sometimes, honour is more sacred thn life. In adherence to such teachings, Charlie Hebdo and his colleagues paid with their life. And several Muslims in the Middle east are paying with their life for dishonouring their families today.

I know it too well

I know the victim card too well. Growing up in the Muslim community in 2001, we were taught that US invaded Afghanistan to kill our Muslim brothers. To cultivate a feeling of victimhood and hatred for US in us, we were never taught the atrocities by fanatic elements in our midsts on the Twin Towers(9/11) and several US embassies in the Middle east.

Too often, we learn that US is the satan who support Isreal in all her oppression of our Palestinian brothers. We were never taught that our brothers heavily enjoined the service of US against the Soviet communists throughout the Soviet-Afghan war(1979-1989).

In a nut shell, our Muslim brothers tell us only half-truth. Of course, most of us have been radicalized by this and do not realize it today. But thankfully, the full truth has set me free.

Hmmh, just for those who might care, i am having a topic in the main section;

www.nairaland.com/2098823/ashtray#29895260

Honour or Victimhood

Playing the victim card is a very powerful strategy of ganering sympathy in the world today. Sometimes, this strategy is employed at the expense of honour. I wouldn't be shocked to learn Mr. Hassan was fully aware of the terror by the Muslim gang in response to that cartoon but chose to ignore it. In that case, Mr Hassan 's will is to reinforce the sense of victimhood in Muslims and sustain the hatred for the west.

As such, revealing the full story will be counterproductive, awakening the Muslims to the fanatic trends thriving in their midst, therefore pitting Muslims against Muslims and dampening their reaction to the cartoon. Consequently, while the cartoons which didn't hurt Muhammad are discussed relentlessly by Muslims, the shootings which claimed live are relatively seldom discussed. And the impression here is that Muslims consider the killing of the cartoonists as justice or not as offensive as the cartoon.

Mr. OP, they are laughing at you behind your back. Non-Muslims reading this are laughing at you behind your back. All these you posted as divine signs of endtimes could have been easily predicted any one. These cannot be qualified as prophesies, these are certainties known to common people even before Muhammad.

67. The last of the Ummat will curse those before them (clearly seen today in people who call the Prophet’s companion’s names).

Where did you get this list from? Immediate generations after the Prophet 's companions did curse the companions. Cursing the Prophet 's companion didn't start today. Are your studying at all?

Ignorance is the greatest Disease of all time

As i drowned my disappointment in my brunch that morning, i realized Mr. Hassan was either ignorantly parroting what he heard or just deliberately concealed the latter part of the story. Whatever the case, it is upsetting.

Of course, people are mostly ignorant generally, not because the have no access to information but because they are lazy and dislike studying. Most Muslims are guilty of this, they know nothing about their history, very little about their religion and are unaware of the religio-political tumoil in the Muslim world. The repercussion of this ignorance is gross.

Mr. Hassan 's announcement that morning is dangerous, it cast out the Muslims as the only victim in the event and this feeds separatism and radicalism among Muslims. Given that most people report what they heard without confirmation, Mr Hassan devious message that morning is bound to spread like wildfire.

Half truth is Dangerous

I left that gathering with a heavy heart. It is true that Charlie Hebdo cartoon mocked Muhammad and some westerners have justified it as legal under freedom of speech, but that isn't the full story, why is Mr. Hassan keeping half of the truth to himself?

Isn't he aware that Charlie Hebdo and 11 others who may have no hand in the cartoon were killed by a fanatic Muslim gang shortly after the release of the cartoon? Isn't he a Muslim, why isn't he objective and honest in his utterance?

And the temples are for God: So invoke no one along with God

I resented joining either group. Christians invoke Jesus in their worship and Muslims invoke Muhammad too. Reluctantly, i joined the Muslim group. As usual, they always begin and conclude their prayers with greetings and salution to Muhammad which amount to veneration. According to their traditions, without that, prayers would not be accepted. I often stand idly when they do this.


Yesterday, one dark hefty looking man named Mr. Hassan, conducted the devotion. At the end, he delayed us briefly and addressed us thus;

"I hope you know what is going on in France, a cartoon mocking Muhammad was published and the whole of the west is supporting it".

He then paused for a while and dismissed us without saying anything else.

I have been attending an educational programme since last week. Before the commencement of the programme daily, there is always a morning devotion for both Christian and Muslims. In one corner, the Christians meet for their devotion and the Muslims meet in another.

Speaking for myself as a Muslim, i think i am more embarrassed and frustrated by the reaction of my co-religionists than the cartoons.

I don't see anything wrong in depicting Muhammad pictorally and i don't feel the cartoon tainted Muhammad 's character because everyone is innocent till proven guilty.

Empiree:
^ I know you trying very hard to rationalize your opinion on this. But the context here is DRUNKARD

According to google definition, DRUNKARD: a person who is habitually drunk.

Urban Dictionary: A drunken person who acts like a re.tard. A drunken re.tard.

Merriam Wesbter: a person who is drunk or who often gets drunk

Now, take a look a how drunkards look. Do they have time to visit you in your sick bed?
I can go on and on with you in cycle. @ bold, a drunkard just cant in that state pay you visit in you sick bed while he's exactly as pictured below?. You kidding.

The hadith say 'drinkers of khamr', not necessarily drunkards. There is difference. That has to be noted.

kazlaw2000:
Then, you would just take the case of the drunkard as an exception to the rule. Thats just common sense. What you pointed out, by all standards would not necessarily count as a contradiction.

Alright, do you remember those beautiful Hadith that enjoins loving your neighbors, treating people kindly, being cheerful with one another?

Here is an exception to the rules of those Hadith;

Sahih Muslim 26:5389

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.

I can give you more examples. Too much exceptions undermines a rule or principle, creating an atmosphere of hypocrisy and deceit.

nb:
I align with some of your views sometimes. Infact I have some of your posts saved for personal references but I dont share the absolute view that all Hadiiths are bad. Though some Ahadiths have been used and are still been used to cause problems here and there but thats not to say we should discard others. Ahadiths are invaluable source of information for the interpretation of the Quran itself, the compilation of Fiqh rules and Islamic history.

See, i don't have a problem with Hadith as a literature. I have a problem with reverence of Hadith as divine words of Muhammad or source of Islamic teachings. I have never said that Hadith copies should be burnt or banned. My position has always being that from a Qur'anic, historical and even Hadith perspective, Hadith Books have no authority in Islam.

As we don't need a single coliform bacteria in our food because our alimentary canal have enough for digestion, however beautiful the message of an hadith is, we don't need it because the Qur'an already carries the same or better message. That is why the Qur'an describes itself the best Hadith(Quran 39:23). It is the only authentic Hadith we have.

lanrexlan: @Underlined, you also know you are provoking me.

You provoked me too, so many times in this section, i have been provoked for expressing an opinion or criticism. I am also not happy about it.

If we are to take the literal meaning of the hadith without considering it in the light of other Ahadith and the Qu'ran , it will contradict common sense. I gave you other examples.

1)''Anyone that memorizes the names of Allah will enter paradise''- Hadith.

I ask you usermane, if we take the literal meaning of this hadith too, does it means that even if an arab pagan memorized the names of Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala)? Will he enter paradise? You failed to reply me.

For the last time, i never meant to imply that this Hadith grant women the liberty to disregard other commandments of God while merely pleasing their husband to enter paradise. I am implying that this Hadith ruling that the pleasure of a husband with his wife certify her attainment of eternal life contradict the basic Qur'anic fact that ONLY the pleasure of God with a man can certify attainment of eternal life. That been said, there is no need to address your analogy because they are based on your wrong understanding of my position on that Hadith.

So, does this mean that as a muslim, one won't work righteousness all his life and will wait till his death bed in order to utter 'La Ilaha Illa Allah'? ?

You have neglected the ulemas interpretation of the Hadith. According to them, anyone who is not a righteous believer will be incapable of uttering the Shahada on his death bed and therefore, anyone who utters it is definitely righteous and granted paradise. They even go far to narrate that Muhammad 's paternal uncle died a polytheist because he couldn't utter the word despite all Muhammad 's pressure. In fact, they even have a tradition that a righteous man couldn't utter the shahada on his death bed because he was on bad terms with his mother, only upon her forgiveness did he utter it to evade hell!

The two hadith are analogous and their interpretation has to be analogous. So we better interpret the Hadith by as thus;

"Any woman whose husband is pleased with upon her death must have lived a righteous life and is assured paradise."

For all i care, unlike your interpretation, this interpretation doesn't literally contradict the hadith and it doesn't contradict other hadith. Still, as i have explained earlier, it contradict Qur'an.

The thing is, a sick man is a sick man whether he drinks or not. When you barr someone from visiting a sick drinker, you are actually depriving a sick man visit and affection.

Also imagine visiting the sick in the hospital, you attend to one sick man and forget another sick man because he drinks, is it ethical?

Imagine a neighbor who drinks learnt you are fatally ill and paid you a kind visit, the weeks later, your neighbor fall sick and instead you deliberately refused to visit him. Is it ethical?

Uuhm, just not to further provoke you, i have a few words for you:

We both disagree with on the interpretation of this Hadith. You believe that i fail to consider other Hadith in my interpretation of the Hadith and i believe your interpretation contradict the Hadith literally. So here is a similar Hadith:

Riyad As Salihin

Mu`adh bin Jabal (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "He whose last words are: `La ilaha illallah' (There is no true god except Allah) will enter Jannah.'' [Abu Dawud].

Why don't you interpret the other Hadith as the scholars interpret this one?