₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
you're making sweeping statements @ bolded; where did you get your stat that only a few wouldn't pray?

you see what I mean when I say these are simply assertions with nothing backing it up?

it is just common logic...how many Muslim we wear succide bomb for the sake of Allah? How many Christian will refused to say the shaadah at the point of death...how many, how many ...compare to those who will say it...the same thing goes to athiest.... How many athiest will not wish for the help of supernatural help in time of danger and difficulty? Compare to who wish it


The logic here is indisputable...

hopefulLandlord:
all these are assertions with nothing backing it up

an atheist wouldn't wear a suicide vest or die for his lack of belief but that's all I there is to it, whether he/she would then call on a god is left to be seen

there's no stat that backs up the idea that atheist would reach out to a god, its just a projection of the person making the assertion; while they say "When you're in danger you'll remember god" they're actually saying "If I were you, when I'm in danger I'll remember god"; so its all psychological projection

I belive in the research work ....it is enough evidence....that back it up..

Atheist dogma isn't about wearing suicide vex, atheist dogma is to reject God in his existence.... That is the main dogma....

A well devoted atheist will not pray even when gun is point toward his head....it is normal ...I understand it...but the question is how many atheists are ready to die at the point of a gun if there is wish that can reverse the case.? Since only few athiest are brave enough not to pray or wish for supernatural help...then the adage is entirely true...


The adage simply identify the nature of a normal man in time of extreme danger and stress... A normal man who isn't so dogmatic in believe, a normal man who hasn't been brainwashed entirely will consider God in all his endeavour...religious aside....

hopefulLandlord:
Of course I did read it but it says more about that person rather than atheists generally, no doubt I admit there are atheists that would call on imaginary friends in times of trouble but my assertion is that using that to paint atheism is very wrong and fallacious cuz there are theists that lose faith in desperate situations too but nobody says "There are no theists in foxholes" or at least I haven't heard such

There's one of my followers who in a PM said he realised there's no interfering god when he faced troubles and none of his prayers worked, this led him to question his belief and he found himself in atheism; I said something similar in the OP

since you do not agree with the research.... No need to use it in this topic then....the adage to me is sensible....

why?

Under normal circumstances when people have not been brainwashed .. It is normal we fear and feel stressful at the point of danger.... I gave an instance of a Muslim who wear garment of bomb to kill for the sake of Allah and likewise a Christian who prefer to die just not to say the shaadah(islamic attestation).... Therefore an atheist who has nurse the dogma of there is no god will not consider prayer useful at the point of danger


Man are by nature God conscious....there is always a wish we have an higher power that can simplify things for us when we see we aren't capable enough....

Most people who become atheist today develop the dogma on the face of challenges... They were looking for solution by praying to higher authority.... But when they couldn't find one they decide that the higher authority do not exist... Like your friend you just mention....

hopefulLandlord:
"atheists inclusive" but the limitations of this study is very obvious if one really studies it; I'm open to revising my conclusions but this study doesn't cut it for me

not to argue back and forth....you reject the research simply because it is not specific on atheist solder..even when the research actually says solder in general.(infantry solder of word war 2). Am Cool with that...

Do you read my response when I said dogma and believe can supersed fear?

Proudgorgeousga:
I didn't insult anyone

then, that will be kind of you..

Proudgorgeousga:
I can write whatever I want to to write.

you are welcome to do so, so long you do not insult...

Proudgorgeousga:
I admire your patience

do you want to contribute or you want to be a referee? I observe that character of yours in many of my thread

hopefulLandlord:
if you studied the link very well you'll see the study didn't study atheists, it only studied soldiers in general which is actually a big issue when we get down to the specifics; a study of atheist soldiers would've been more accurate as being irreligious=/= atheism

secondly, they said soldier's reliance on prayers rose to 72%, that still doesn't tell us who amongst these guys that now relied on prayers were actually atheists to begin with, I've met theists who also don't rely on prayers (they rely more on action), that doesn't make them atheists, does it?

thirdly, below was your point



of course I'm can't argue against that, everyone hopes to survive and everyone has fears but that doesn't mean much or is there something I'm missing?

that is why I actually do not really know what you are directing me to do....

I copy the above quote as a suggestions of what you mean but since you have clarify it.. The research study the general behavior of solder and atheist inclusive.... It will be wrong to specifically study atheism alone....since the puporse of the research is to compare and contrast.... The last sentence indicate it...



I simply indicate that atheist who reject prayer at the point of danger do not do it becuse of their wish but becuse their dogma and belive supersed their Fear.... It is normal you wish for an invincible helper to aid you in point of danger...the report indicate

hopefulLandlord:
that's what I'm saying, the link I gave is the source, study it

.’ In the end, saying there are no atheists in foxholes may be less of an argument against atheism than it is against foxholes.”



This is what you are likely directiing me toward....I have read it in details... Right?

hopefulLandlord:
study Wikipedia's references first https://archive.is/dHHQK

that is the best for this debate... References on Wikipedia are trully scrutinized.... Gone are the days when fallacy can easily be detected on Wikipedia.... It reference Oxford university and cornel uni..

hopefulLandlord:
No doubt there may be atheists that become religious in hostile situations but this thread is challenging the saying that all atheists would definitely call on a god in such situations

I do not know how valid the 1916 quote you gave is but I'd rather ask atheists soldiers themselves than ask third parties as the bias of a third party might come to play, I gave the story of a soldier who faced impending death but didn't call on any god on the first page, I prefer such over third or fourth hand accounts

that quote was from an academic research paper...i can't post all on this page becuse of plagiarism.... You may as well do you own research online to justify the claim

The truth of the matter is.....some athiest can still remain adamant even to the point of death....that is his unchanging dogma...they are many Christian who prefer to die just to say the shaadah ( Islamic attestation of faith) even at the point of daggar or gun ...so the same with Muslim who wear the garment of bomb to kill himself for the sake of Allah....(fear do not take its cause...it is their belive and dogma which supersedes their fear ..

My argument here is base on general view of any rational human being who exhibit a complete character of fear and anxiety at the pont of danger....be you solder or civilian... We are both human with this natural quality ...it is normal we still hope to live or survive despite the closeness to death. In time of extreme stress and difficulty..


study by University of Oxford psychologists also suggests that faith in the explanatory and revealing power of science increases in the face of stress or anxiety.

To empirically examine the question, "Are there atheists in foxholes?" Cornell University behavioral economist, Brian Wansink examined 949 post-combat surveys of World War II American infantrymen and observed that these soldiers' reliance on prayer rose from 42% to 72% as the battle intensified. To test the lasting impact of combat on religious behavior, a follow-up survey was conducted 50 years later with a different sample of veterans from all branches of service. First study of the sample included analysis of archived World War II surveys after a battle and showed a soldier’s reliance on prayer rose from 32% to 74% as the battle intensified.The second study showed that 50 years later, many soldiers still exhibited religious behavior, but it varied by their war experience. Soldiers who faced heavy combat (vs. no combat) attended church 21% more often if they claimed their war experience was negative, but those who claimed their experience was positive attended 26% less often. The more a combat veteran disliked the war, the more religious they were 50 years later.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes

hopefulLandlord:
I said most atheists here on Nairaland are sure the abrahamic god doesn't exist OR should I say all personal gods don't exist but a creator remains a "possibility" so long there are things humans are yet to discover but that's all it is, a "possibility"

in that case most atheists on nairaland will be called atheistic agonistic.... Which is still the same as atheist as my definition nail it...

I reply your thread.... No atheist in the foxholes

butterflyl1on:
When someone says he does not know and what they do not know can never be known it simply means that they have no single desire to know. So no amount of evidence can be accepted. That in a nutshell is insanity and closemindedness.

am only trying to correct the misinterpretation of the word atheist and agonist together....

hopefulLandlord:
stop this circumlocution

which part of my post do you disagree with?

the idea of abrahimic god....you said most atheist are agonist but only disagree with abrahimic God....

hopefulLandlord:
most atheists are agnostic to a "creator" but are sure the abrahamic god is manmade

if an atheist become agonist... Then the world change to atheist agonist... Which is the same thing as atheist (without God)why? Agnostic atheism is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact not just abrahimic god

CatfishBilly:
Me? Keep beef with you?
You never reach naa.
I just call out hypocrites wherever I see them, that's all

ok bro, good morning

CatfishBilly:
And the embodiment of discussion without insults has spoken.
Fuckkking hypocrite

pls am not on nairaland to keep beef with anyone..ever since I have spoken(written) my mind,I have move ahead....bros show some love...

ScienceWatch:
Update : Vaxx, I am working on something you suggested and using the awesome guide-lines you gave me. Meanwhile, can you assist us with shedding more light on the publications that revealed that, "Atheism is a mental disease." An esteemed Nairalander, Budaatum has just created an interesting tropic on this and we are trying to track down the scientific publication that was available on the internet about one year ago, but has disappeared from Google search.

I commend budaatum for his interest in verifying the 22 yr long scientific study that has global implications. My personal opinion is that those alleged findings would come as no surprise to me because it would simply clarify the madness we experience daily when Low-level Atheists spew their corrosive sperm all over sacred and revered doctrines. Insanity indeed !

I welcome your excellent investigative skills Vaxx. Here is the link below.
https://www.nairaland.com/4085670/22-year-study-states-atheism/1#61206570

sciencewatch, i think you should appear as a true symbol of Christ... The beauty in your written can change their mind.... Instead of degradation......I trust... you can do better...

Humanistme:
You are free to believe want you want.

that's true bro....

theoneJabulani:
I know its hard for u to imagine that there are actually nigerians who don't believe in talking donkeys, talking snakes and all. Btcellnet don't worry, it Will get better with time.

lol..but you believe in talking apes...

I have meet one Nigerian atheist but not in Nigeria, i still consider him a joker anyway...

butterflyl1on:
First and foremost let me show you proof you are a kid who obviously still lives in mama's house.

If you do not go to church who would know? (especially if you are self reliant).

So your "loving" mother would automatically conclude you are hell bound if you do not go to church? When does not going to church translate to being an atheist?

1. You do not have to tell her you are an atheist.
2. You can still not go to church yet not tell her you are an atheist
3. If you still live with her (which I know you do) you would then be saying the things you are saying.
4. If you did not live with her then who cares if you do or do not go to church? Certainly not your mother who lives in her own house.

You are a kid! Period!

Do you actually believe there is real atheist in Nigeria..?..or most of them are just temporal.....

rekinomtla:
Truths should be proclaimed not kept in the dark.

Truth shouldn't be spread with hatred..

rekinomtla:
Respect for what religions exactly? Definitely not islam and atheism. Both come directly from satan and his demons, both are polluted with sin and both desire to eliminate Christianity. Both hate the truth, both desire a dictatorship where the likes of a Muhammad or Stalin will rule. Both have dogmatic load mouth followers who abused adherents of other religions, just look at Saudi Arabia and North Korean. Islam promotes wife beating while atheism promotes abortion. Religions with such outrageous teachings shouldn't be shown any respect. Do we respect dictators? Should we respect a religion that allows men to beat their wife's? Should we respect a religion that allows women to murder their unborn children? I say no, to Islam and atheism, both don't deserve any respect. I'm slightly open to Hinduism and Buddhism as I haven't studied them, but islam and atheism I have studied in depth and I know they both have devilish doctrines and followers.
Shalom

your type is the kind of problem we have in northern Nigeria, Syria and all other religion war turn country....

If your rreligion is good for you ,then keep to it...

We need to stop this attitude of my country is better than yours

My religion is better than yours

My dick is better than yours..


I see it as quite immature, my little bible knowledge says Jesus did not condemn the Samaritan woman (john 4 vs 1 to 42)..so why should you comdem anybody faith....paul was benjamites ...according to Philippians 3 vs 5 yet he identify himself as jews...

If you are true Christian , you should wear the symbol of Christ.... Your attitude can as well preach on your behalf as a true Christian ...


How will the atheist see beauty in your faith with such utterances . let us be careful..

budaatum:
I think the assumption is that one becomes an atheist because it was preached to one, as one becomes a Christian or Muslim because one has heard it preached. The idea that one can become an atheist all by oneself is not an acceptable idea for those who adopted theirs by having heard it preached to them. The whole idea of philosophy of atheism goes right over the believers head.

(I sound convoluted there vaxx. I hope it makes sense!)

no, most atheists become atheists due to personal willingness... While some become atheists due to access of information or knowledge in their disposal..

.philosophy of atheism is divided into two...morality and scientific which contradict themselves....you can go through this link to share your views...https://www.nairaland.com/4093854/atheism-definition-problematic

Atheism is a belief system ...how? A disbelieve is a believe. If I disbelieve in God then I belive that god does not exist. Disbelieve is to assume falsehood

Op.. Why do you make the question a Bible focus? Why not an open discussion for every religious folks...


Since am an ifa adrehent and a complete black man...am gonna give you reply just like african that i am..

Africa isn't poor and we shouldn't be hungry.. One of the reasons of hunger today is the abandon of farming and neglect of orisha Oko. He is the orisha of of farming and nutrition. Neglect of Oko is a major cause of dis-ease and hunger in African people today.

Because they don't want Africans to invest in nutrition, the Europeans have tried to claim our practise is voodoo in nature.

Orisa oko reign over farming, but farming is just one of his skills used in the pursuit of nutrition. The key isn't just farming. Presently, due to Neo-Colonialism, most African farming is not being done to feed the people. The farms are most often single crops intended for sale abroad while actual food is being shipped in from European factories (most of which is manufactured and altered food, not organic). These are offenses to the Orisha Oko because farming is a tool he intended to provide nutrition to the people.

Europeans want to claim that they discovered the concept of vitamins, but this was all well known to ancient melanin-rich people. Thru IFA: Òrìsa Scientific Spirituality, the Yoruba not only developed the science of vitamins (ajira) and nutrients (éròjà), but deified the entire concept of nutrition (ijeemu) into a divinity: our beloved orisha Oko....hope this help....

Op, am sure even Google do not have answer to this question you posted.....this question is another way of determing science limitation..... Scientist and archaeologist can't prove it....so I can't give you an empirical answer....


The truth of this question will destroy atheism fundamental believe...

my opinion..... The supreme being design us with the ability to worship and acknowledged him from the beginning,may be not as a Christian ,pagan or Muslim but very sure not an atheist..

Am sure the babies are not born blank....there is research going on to identify part of God consciousness in our brain...

though our parents teaching may influence our earlier belief or faith but God consciousness is not missing from birth .... There is a belive of a higher authority will hang up to and will belive this being is more superior to our parents .


Am sure the first religion on earth was founded on truth and not on false doctrine....when the world population... was very young....


God will win because he is real

budaatum:
I am personally willing to discuss Newton. Newton is quoted as saying, "if I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants." He himself made no claim to jumpstarting anything, but that he was taking further the works of those who came before him.

Newton is however irrelevant here and has no relevance to the theological views of Einstein, who's religiousity "reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve", considered much in the stories of the Bible to be untrue, "a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies". "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends…. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions." An attitude that never left him.

"He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve. He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist", preferring to call himself an agnostic"

If this is the view of a person you claim even accepts that God created the universe, then I think I should have my head seen to.

Isaac Newton was/is a well esteem figure of science.... some aspect of his teaching might not be biblical....but his work on bible numerology speak volume of his Christianity belive...unlike Albert who never come to belive in a personal God...though albert recognized the impossibility of a non created universe...

According toThe Encyclopedia Britannica
he "Firmly deny atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivate his study in science..

bobowaja:
Most of those scholars like Einstein and Newton are agnostic. It doesn't means they didn't belief in supreme /intelligent being (just that most of them doesn't subscribe to religion stuffs). And some of them that seems to belief in dogma do so for their own safety (in the case of Galileo Galilee who was punished for going against the church)

Newton was religious, He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not Orthodox... I will not consider him agnostic but Christian...

NairalandSARS:
But your Idea of a 7 year old girl comes from our reality which would also have been created.

So you can't tell what a "7 year old girl" from the source reality can do.

it is analogy bro...it can even be lesser than that age....


What am saying is, it is difficult for any human/animal being to imagine a universe like this of ours and still be able to coordinate their cognitive decision....

AtheistSociety:
Connect to our facebook page. Thanks

you are welcome

CatfishBilly:
Are you for real?

yes bro...many online video are available to confirm.... I recently watch one between a Muslim and atheist... It was held in Canada or so.... You should have it....I don't mind sending you the link....