₦airaland Forum

I have told you you don't make sense and I explained why. NONE of the NT writers and disciples would have offended anybody had they removed the name of Jesus from their teachings. How would you remove Jesus name from his teachings if you were Jesus (flesh)?

Now, grab some kleenex and do the needful and carry on. Crying isn't particularly masculine

shdemidemi:
Is it that difficult to be civil? If you think a thing don't make sense prove it or better still, walk away from it. I do that a lot on this forum.

I was not discussing that chapter with you I only answerd the question you asked in your penultimate post, apply some decorum little man.

Neither is what Paul wrote offensive to the Jews if you remove Jesus. You are not making sense.

Hebrews was written for Hebrews. How does knowledge of the audience of the book affect your understanding of this passage?


Hebrews 6:4-6 King James Version (KJV)

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

shdemidemi:
What Peter and James and Jesus(flesh) taught isn't so offensive to the jews if you take out the name of Jesus. All they had problems with was the name Jesus. With the message of Christ (risen) through Paul, the offence is beyond just calling the name 'Jesus', it multiplied with the demand the renunciation of all their tenets, feast and traditions.

Paul told Peter and James at the conference in Jerusalem that they added nothing to what he was offering from Christ. God had moved but the jews were too conceited to follow.

The entire bible is one and none is distorted if placed in the right sequence and not lumped together like we do. The book of Hebrews like the name implies was primarily for the 'Hebrews', we must read the book with that in mind.

Most of you have never won a single soul to Christ let alone run a ministry of any size yet you are pros on ministry

I respectfully differ for Pauline epistles can't save NOBODY on their own.

I also differ with your theory that Pauline inspiration was superior. He had no privilege of being taught by Jesus on earth, he received some of his training from Holy Spirit. But I can agree with you if you convince me that whatever Holy Spirt taught Paul was superior to what Jesus taught his disciples

Is the message of salvation in Hebrews distorted?

shdemidemi:
The problem is the brick wall and blindness that the Jewsish nation have been struck by-

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

It is much easier for an Igbo man to accept Christ to a Jewish man who is steeped in the ways and tradition of their fathers. God have since moved from Judaism to Christianity but the nation of Israel won't accept this truth as a nation.

2) The man that has the doctrine of salvation is Paul. The message of salvation was revealed to him by the risen Christ. He does personalise it a lot, you hear him say things like 'my gospel'.

He explained step by step details on how we can be saved. He unveiled God's wisdom and mysteries that was hid in the past. He was not taught by man but by the risen Christ through the Holy Spirit. Paul is more or less the speaker who held the office of the Holy Spirit.

It means there is hope for Nigeria as NL is full of people who can smell unintelligible garbage from miles off

plaetton:
@ op
Excellent write up.
The fact that you only have 2 likes in 2 days shows that you have certainly rattled the nerves amongst the churchtians.

This op deserves 1000 likes.

If a Jew and an Igbo need the same formula for salvation,
1. why should we distinguish between an epistle whose primary audience is Jewish from that whose audience are Gentiles?

2. Did Paul's doctrine on salvation differ from Peter's,James'?

That verse is as self-explanatory as your moniker. What is there to relate? Indulge me

shdemidemi:
Thanks Vooks

Can you please relate your definition to what you think Paul is talking about here-

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:




absolutely the same.

Start your own now that you know the truth. And you have numbers. Show us the way negro

frosbel:
Depends on which system you are referring to, i.e the system of a DEAD Cult parading as Christianity or a system of LOVE after the will of God.

I think that most people would agree with me that the system which predominates in Nigeria especially is the system of a DEAD Cult , hence the endless scandals, dark exposures , oppression and exploitation of unsuspecting and mostly ignorant sheople.

A system with over 40,000 denominations and even a higher number of doctrinal positions cannot be said to come from ONE SOURCE , it is a confused conglomeration built and maintained by self-appointed egomaniacs with their willing or unwilling minions who do their bidding and entrap more innocent people into this dead and dangerous system.

This is the system you have come to represent and which I REJECT.



Our troops run into the tens of thousands and WE are creating dents all over your mythical system of fraud, very soon these dents will become holes and then lead to a total collapse.

Our Objective : To free to sheep to worship their God in spirit and truth , not according to the whims and caprices of MEN !



Anyone who keeps hammering on about IQ is either suffering from inferiority complex or does not have an IQ to begin with.

it means stewardship or an arranged plan or scheme.

Let me ask you something. What does it take for a Jew to be born again in 2015? Is it any different from an Igbo?

shdemidemi:
My friend, I have been asking you this question way before your 'Hebrew' question and that explains why I insist you answer it.

Giving a dumb answer won't count either plus you don't need to write a whole book on topic.

it is pointless veering off Hebrews to pursue Dispensationalism imagined by John Darby, a subject with thousands of pages on it. This is classic Shdemidemi running away from the Truth.

Let me grant you, whatever you imagine Dispensation is, I will gladly work with that. With that behind us, Can you please answer my questions? Line upon line, precept upon precept

What do you understand by this phrase, 'were made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost'?

shdemidemi:
There is no point doing this ping pong style debate. If you can't comprehensively explain what 'dispensation' means then we should not be having this debate at all cos you won't understand the other tricky parts.

Quit kidding yourself; the system is people and people is the system. You are assaulting men who are doing what makes you pee in your pants because you are a congenial coward, a serial nitpicker who spends more of his time whining and little to nothing doing ANYTHING.

Get off your lazy bum, get a sanitized Bible free of heresies,lies,deception,fraud,ignorance,paganism and gather your troops for the battle.

You are the least qualified to berate the church and the only reason Jesus will let you get away with it is your IQ

frosbel:
I wonder what love you showed to your unfortunate listeners....


Note : Criticism is not on an individual level but against a corrupt, dead, pagan, mythical, oppressive, exploiting and godless systems.

And don't forget these as well

Excellent
1. By saying he will not blot out their names from the book of life, can we wisely infer that their names are ALREADY in the book?
2. Overcomers names will not be blotted form the book of life, NON-Overcomers' name will be blotted out of the book of life. Do you agree?

shdemidemi:
He says they will be clothed in white raiment, he will not blot out their name out of the book of life, he will confess their name before His Father, and before his angels.

Please educate me on what DISPENSATION is.

But before that, Please answer this question1 as coherently as your brains can afford, unless you are lying and have PROBLEMS answering it

Then please do
What do you understand by this phrase, 'were made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost'?

μέτοχος (metochos)
Strng: G3353
GK: G3581

a partaker, Heb. 3:1, 14; 6:4; 12:8; an associate, partner, fellow, Lk. 5:7; Heb. 1:9

shdemidemi:
My friend, I have no problem answering your questions. [size=4pt]All I ask is for us to deal with the issue of 'dispensation', it will sure expand our horizon on this topic. Paul spoke about it, did it really mean anything?[/size]

shdemidemi:
DISPENSATION, Explain.

Then please do
What do you understand by this phrase, 'were made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost'?

μέτοχος (metochos)
Strng: G3353
GK: G3581

a partaker, Heb. 3:1, 14; 6:4; 12:8; an associate, partner, fellow, Lk. 5:7; Heb. 1:9

shdemidemi:
My friend, I have no problem answering your questions. [size=4pt]All I ask is for us to deal with the issue of 'dispensation', it will sure expand our horizon on this topic. Paul spoke about it, did it really mean anything?[/size]

There is always a way out my broda,
Playing dumb

BabaGnoni:
vooks salivating and patiently corralling since 1000 BC
I fleetingly saw vooks almost bring the halo down the neck to choke with and go for the kill

Let us now go back to Hebrews


Hebrews 6:4-6King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

from verse 4, 'those'
1. WERE enlightened
2. Tasted of the heavenly gift
3. Were made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost
4. Tasted the good word of the LORD and the powers of the world to come

What do you understand by this phrase, 'were made PARTAKERS of the Holy Ghost'?

μέτοχος (metochos)
Strng: G3353
GK: G3581

a partaker, Heb. 3:1, 14; 6:4; 12:8; an associate, partner, fellow, Lk. 5:7; Heb. 1:9

shdemidemi:
The initiation period was of course at Pentecost but we must understand it was a fading away period. A shift from the Jewish nation to the church. The book of Acts is an historical record of this shift from the Old to the New.

The reason I asked is because I desired we be on the SAME page namely, ANY residence of the Holy Spirit in a believer from Pentecost is permanent. Just that. Thanks

shdemidemi:
Who says He is not enabling us today, you have so much on your mind that you think I am saying but in actual fact I am not saying them.

It is no rocket science to grasp the capacity at which the Holy Spirit operated in the old to the roles He plays in today's church.

May be, if you deal with this issue of dispensation and stop avoiding it, you will realise what 'justification' is all about in the context of today's church.

Thank you.
If Holy Spirit temporarily enabled whomever He came upon, that is HISTORICAL. So you can't say He enables yet He last did that 2000 years ago, you say He enabled.
In the past, God WINKED at sin but NOW He is commanding everyone to repent.
In the past, God spoke in diverse ways, in these last days He HAS spoken

So, can we agree that EVERY instance the Holy Spirit resides or comes upon a believer( He does not infill unbelievers), it is PERMANENT?

We will tackle dispensation later on. And if you are careful enough, we did. Jog your memory

shdemidemi:
My dear friend, I begged you not to evade the question on 'dispensation' but you did, why?

I never said Holy Spirit dwell in believers temporarily, He lives in us permanently. In the Old Testament i.e before Christianity He temporarily enables whomever He comes upon.

shdemidemi:
Must there be a flip side?

Yes when you are given a CONDITIONAL promise
a CEO to his sales team; 'If you make $200M Gross sales, I will not lay you off'. The only assurance of escaping being laid off is meeting $200M target. He is equally saying that they will be sent packing if they don't meet the $200M target

What if Johnny never gets to do the physics?

Why would I promise Johnny reward for getting an A in Physics and he is not taking Physics?

Moreover, the analogy isn't fitting cos Jesus isn't addressing just johnny but every one present.

'He that overcometh'

Brilliant!
The letter was addressed to the ENTIRE church. Out of this, ONLY the overcomers;
1. get white raiments
2. Retain their names in the book of life
3. have Jesus confessing their names before the father

Excellent
1. By saying he will not blot out their names from the book of life, can we wisely infer that their names are ALREADY in the book?
2. Overcomers names will not be blotted form the book of life, NON-Overcomers' name will be blotted out of the book of life. Do you agree?

shdemidemi:
He says they will be clothed in white raiment, he will not blot out their name out of the book of life, he will confess their name before His Father, and before his angels.

Please give me PROOF of Holy Spirit residing in believers temporarily now that you believe that. What's your basis?

shdemidemi:
For your question, you probably want me to anwer it a thousand times before you acknowledge it... I say YES YES YES......


On those two occurrences, what do you think they mean?

Don't evade the question.

According to Shdemidemi,
Revelation is SET in a future time t and a different 'dispensation' where salvation will be a REWARD for works, 'unlike' presently where it is by faith. That way, ANY portion of the same suggesting loss of salvation/eternity for believers is REJECTED as being irrelevant for the 'present dispensation'

Initially, he resisted the obvious fact of non-overcomers being blotted out of the book of life. Note he was even embarrassed of admitting that blotting out means loss of salvation. When overwhelmed by reason and sound diving of the Word, instead of admitting, he changed gears and flashed the Dispensation card where he tacitly claims that even if believers can be blotted out of the book of life and lose their salvation, that ONLY happens at a different future Graceless Dispensation

This is a dead end because the argument now shifts from Rev 3:5 to whether there is a future dispensation, and whether under that dispensation the rules of salvation are different from the present.

He has resisted the other evidence in Hebrews, dismissing it as a Jewish text. Same case with Peter. Romans he unsuccessfully attempted this. It begs the question. Do we have different rules or formula for salvation one for Jews and one for Gentiles? In other words, is God's message DISTORTED by the apostles and their audiences biases?

ayoku777:
You're right, that is by the way. Because there is no where in the bible that scripture says, there will be a resurrection and rapture before the tribulation.

God cut off Israel after they rejected Christ as a nation. And salvation became a personal thing for every individual, jew or gentile.

And how does all this proof that those who don't overcome will not have their names blotted out.

What is the flip side of this?

Johnny, If you get an A in physics I will not collect your phone from you.

Yes I do understand that on the basis of those TWO occurences of the word DISPENSATION we have Dispensation Theology

Now, DOES the Holy Spirit RESIDE in some men temporarily? It's YES/NO


When I was in High School, I used to be a reggae singer and rapper. Now am not. This should help you

shdemidemi:
Do you understand 'dispensations'?
[size=2pt]Col 1
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the [size=22pt]dispensation [/size]of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Ephesians 3
2 If ye have heard of the [size=22pt]dispensation [/size]of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

[/size]

What awaits them?
Don't get angry like you are wont to

shdemidemi:
What Jesus said is clear enough, I don't know why you need hear it from me.

He said what await those who pass the test of Tribulation.

Shdemidemi,
Could you please follow your own advice and tell us what Jesus is saying here and not what He is not saying

Revelation 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

cc ayoku777,BabaGnoni

shdemidemi:
Vooks says 'I love my mum because she bought me a toy', what is the flip side to this statement?

Last time,

DOES (present continuous tense) Holy Spirit reside (present continuous tense) in some people temporarily? Yes/No?

shdemidemi:
Do you understand my questions?

You, Shdemidemi SEPARATED.....

Is this what calvinists or baptists or whatever they call themselves resort to when cornered? Mutilating scriptures?

shdemidemi:
Seem you only come to NL to read yourself.

I separated the book of Revelation and the churches mentioned there from the gospel of Grace and the body of Christ built on the foundation of Faith in Christ.

They all have to work to overcome at this period of tribulation. This isn't so for those who got salvation on the basis of Grace through God's mercy.

Guess your question and answer didn't yield much hence why you are coming out aggressive, it was all 'sir' initially.

Calm down.. farabale

Excellent
So,
What is Jesus saying here? Let's start there.

Revelation 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Am sure seeing you are Elect and are Spirit Filled, you have no difficulty COMPREHENDING this

shdemidemi:
The bible did not leave us guessing or making assumptions with the issue of the unrighteous. The fate of an unbeliever is written in white and black for all to see. All I am saying is that we must stick to what was said and not think out what was not said- error might creep in.
[size=4pt]
Please address the rest of the questions

If God really knows the end from the beginning, would He really need to be blotting out names that He had written?

The book of Revelation says only a remnant of 14400 will be saved, don't you think He knows them already if He can know their number?

Is God a reactive God, does He do plan B, do things catch him off guard to necessitate improvisation?[/size]

DOES (present continuous tense) Holy Spirit reside (present continuous tense) in some people temporarily? Yes/No?

DID(past tense) Holy Spirit reside(past continuous tense) in some people temporarily? Yes/No?

shdemidemi:
Do you know what it means to rightly divide the Word?

OLD from NEW?

FLESH from SPIRIT?

Do you understand what the dispensation of the HOLY SPIRIT is?

Do you understand what distinguishes the dispensation of the Spirit from that of the Father and the Son; and the capacity it operated at the different times?

shdemidemi:
The problem here is the 'what of'. What if there name was never written there?

The fact that He exhorts and reserves reward for overcomers means not all are overcomers. Otherwise the promises are hopelessly redundant. Think of Shdemidemi promising his daughter that he SHALL be her father.

Why don't we work with what Jesus said rather than assume that He might be saying something else on the flip side?

What is the POINT of that promise?

If God really knows the end from the beginning, would He really need to be blotting out names that He had written?

This is FATALISM. If God knows whom he will save, what is our job of preaching or even studying scriptures and praying? He knows whom He will save and doing that don't affect His choice.

The book of Revelation says only a remnant of 14400 will be saved, don't you think He knows them already if He can know their number?

Fatalism 101

Is God a reactive God, does He do plan B, do things catch him off guard to necessitate improvisation?

Moot point.
Why is Jesus promising rewards to overcomers out of the church and not the whole church?

Does the Holy Spirit reside in some people temporarily? Either He does or he doesn't

I trust English is your secondary language but you do understand tenses

shdemidemi:
No contradiction at all. There is an OLD and a NEW.

The functions of the Holy Spirit before the ascension of Christ isn't the same with His function in His dispensation.

He was present in the dispensation of the father, He was also present in the dispensation of the son, we are presently in the dispensation of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Revelation 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

3 Promises to him that overcomes
1. Clothed in white raiment
2. His name will NOT be blotted out
3. Jesus will confess his name before the Father

What about he who won't overcome? The exact OPPOSITE of that.
1. Won't be clothed in white raiment
2. His name will be blotted out
3. Jesus will deny him (He said that in the Gospels) before the Father

Before you respond, ponder, what's the value of a promise to overcomers if it is equally available to non-overcomers? Isn't that like Jesus promising Power/Holy Spirit to them that believe yet he readily baptizes even unbelievers?
And exactly what do you mean by blotting out his name from the book of life?

shdemidemi:
Bro, did He say he will blot out any name here?

I know your argument might go in the line of, 'if he says he won't he probably can'. Is this enough to build a doctrine of 'blotting out names'?

Do you see how CONTRADICTORY the hghlighted sentences are?

1. The Holy Spirit DOES
2.The Holy Spirit DOES NOT

shdemidemi:
The Holy Spirit does reside in men temporarily and this He did all through the old testament. No wonder David will pray that saying-
King James Bible
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

That is why they used the term 'anointing'. People were anointed temporarily in the old when they are enabled by the Holy Spirit.

Today, the Holy Spirit permanently reside in every believer.