₦airaland Forum

Before you see that, what do you understand by the words blotting out a name?

cc Ayoku777

shdemidemi:
Please show me where the bible say ones name will be blotted out.

The word has VERY FEW meaning(s)
κοινωνός (koinōnos)

Strong: G2844

GK: G3128

a fellow, partner, companion, Mt. 23:30; Lk. 5:10; 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 8:23; Phlm. 17; Heb. 10:33; a sharer, partaker, 2 Cor. 1:7; 1 Pet. 5:1; 2 Pet. 1:4


Can Holy Spirit reside in some people temporarily? If yes, could you please give examples?

Thank you

shdemidemi:
When you say partake, what do you mean?

God uses anyone through His Spirit to accomplish His purpose and that includes mr devil. If 'partake' does not mean the Holy Spirit is permanently resident in you, my answer is YES.

Let's go back to Matthew 7

Matthew 7:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please walk me through how you ID the 'many' of v22 as being per-resurrection miracle workers/Christians and not post-resurrection

ayoku777:
Yes. I don't believe in the once saved always doctrine too.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life, meaning eternal life can be lost.

We need to KEEP the faith.

Same case applies to you my broda

shdemidemi:
In that case, we need to analyse the scriptures that led to your current belief. If you so desire.

So you can't possibly partake Holy Spirit if you are not Elect?

shdemidemi:
Never

Let me trust you on this one
Can you have the Spirit of Christ in you WITHOUT being Elect?

shdemidemi:
The bible is the book my friend.

It says I am an elect of God countlessly in scripture. Every believer is who has the Spirit of Christ in them is. Do you want to see where the book says a believer(which I am a part) of the gospel is an elect?

Thank you sir.

Don't you think this verse contradicts Once-Saved-Always-Saved teaching?
If you confess Christ and then you deny him, He is still 'bound' to confess you before the Father

ayoku777:
What is the end of those who don't believe in the Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God?

Ofcourse it is the Lake of fire.

What's your point?

What book and where does it say that Shdemidemi is Elect?

shdemidemi:
The book say so and I believe the book with all of my being.

How do you know?

shdemidemi:
YES

What would be the consequence of this denial of Jesus?

ayoku777:
Ofcourse, [size=4pt]it is possible to give up on your faith in Christ Jesus.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life according to Jesus.

And that means someone who once had eternal life can lose it, if he loses his faith in Christ.

This is how to deny Christ

1John 2v22 -Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

To deny Jesus is to not believe He is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

A believer cannot deny Jesus, otherwise he is no more a believer.[/size]

Not to intrude,
Shdemidemi, are you one of those 'elect'?

shdemidemi:

This is where the doctrine of 'election' comes in. Salvation is the complete work of God. If God comes calling, no man can resist His call, not even Saul turn Paul.

In the day of God's power, the bible says His people shall be willing. The ability to will is propelled by God, if there is no will, there wouldn't be an interest that leads to acceptance.

The salvation journey starts from God and ends with God. The same way Jesus called up the carcass of dead Lazarus, He calls our dead spirit to life, only then can we respond to the call.

Can someone who believes in Christ presently DENY Him at some point in future?

ayoku777:
Yes sir, I have read it.

What's your point?

How do we deny Christ under the new covenant? Can someone who believes in Christ and has received the promise of the Spirit through faith still be said to be denying Christ?

Ayoku777,
Have you ever read this verse?

Matthew 10:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

BabaGnoni, a man I hav maximum respect for,

When a prophet was sent to decree judgement on David the King following his adultery with Bathsheba, he was given a parable and he reacted with outrage demanding that the offender be killed or something. You can imagine the whirlwind of emotions and mental anguish when he was told that he is that man. Am sure David would have been the last to stone the woman caught in adultery

There are many lessons from this passage but for now,lets focus on the tendency for us to be judgemental and critical. This is usually directed at people or circumstance that we are not part of. As long as it is 'others' and not 'I',it is game

Tozer once said, 'a Pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself while a spiritual man is hard on himself and easy on others'.

The bittermost critics of the church are those who have never done any ministry. I used to be critical of missionaries until I went to the bush for two weeks,came back with malaria,sunburns and scorpion bites. It was humbling.

Regardless of what model you propose, as long as it is ran by mortal and fallible men, it will always fall short. With this in mind, I always try to temper my bile with realism and respect for those who are actually trying to do something....more on this later

BabaGnoni:
vooks quit the tongue in cheek
This is not a thread for poking fun

vooks you would agree it is not a matter of starting "churches"
vooks you would agree that helping with breaking the yokes and assisting with taking down burdens laid up by man on to man (e.g. tithes, firstfruits, staged healings etcetera) did not require starting "churches"

You say "There is NOTHING you can point in church today that hasn't existed since Pentecost"
if so, why then are some of us still plagued by Hosea 4:6 then?

Who has bewitched us, that we should not obey the truth?

If we are still plagued by Hosea 4:6, then what's next and more the reason, is we need to continually identify and repeatingly point out the 'deviations', the next 'deviations' and the next round of deviations until seventy times seven times

vooks dont propose setting up a "church" rather give moral support and blessing

Who told shdemidemi those miracle workers had not been justified

This is circular reasoning. Goes like this;
1. I THINK/IMAGINE a justified christian can't be cast to hell
2. All people being cast to hell can't possibly be justified Christians

CONCLUSION
Therefore, the miracle workers were not justified Christians

This is intellectual dishonesty because you are trying to establish whether after justification a believer can sin and go to hell,and here you are starting with the PRESUMPTION that he can't and on that basis denying scriptures showing you that he can without proof!

Many years ago in high school,my biology teacher told me that I should not define something with itself.
What is Respiration? Respiration is mmm.....errrr Respiration!
That's BS

italo:
James 2:21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

Abraham was justified thousands of years before Jesus came.

So your answer is false. Those people were justified, yet committed sin and went to hell.

BabaGnoni, vooks...what do you say to the above?

Yes to all the questions.

That makes me correct. The early Church believed and was justified, yet it sinned and was called carnal.

How do we have a debate with somebody who thinks Hebrews and Peter are not scriptures?

How do you reason with somebody who thinks a 'brother perishing' means him getting lost in Afi River Forest?

You are another shade of Frosbel with tons of garbage between you and the Truth

shdemidemi:
Seem you can't endure a civil debate my friend.

Start again by defining 'justification'.

Jesus gave 72 disciples power over demons and diseases and sent them out two by two in Luke 10 . You are claiming that the MANY refer to these.

Not all of them had died by the time Jesus died so you are being disingenuous in attempting to restrict the 'many' to a group of under 72 in count.

Let's try again; who are these MANY people who successfully invoked the name of Jesus in casting out demons,healing and are sent to hell?

paxonel:
Hmmmm!
Not all who said to me lord lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For you to understand this, let me explain something about the kingdom of God .
Before Christ was crucified ( before the kingdom of heaven was established on earth, many disciples followed Christ and called him lord lord in those days, just to attend the kingdom which was about to be established at that time,which is Christianity. But few of the disciples were able to hold their believe firm until christ was crucified, infact, all of them ran away, even Peter who thought his faith in Christ was strong even denied Christ.
At the end when Jesus was finally crucified, when the kingdom was established, out of the 5000 disciples who eat 5 loaves and 2 fishes,only about 120 disciples started the christianty, which is the kingdom of God,on the day of pentecost, act 1:15.
Hence, few disciples who called him lord lord ended up entering Christianity.
Thats why he told them, strive to enter the gate, many will try to enter but few will gain entry.
Hence. The kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force.
And on that day, (the day of his resurrection ) many will say, we cast out demons,we heal the sick.
You know, Jesus actually gave his disciples power to cast out demons and heal the sick even when they were not yet christians.
But Jesus told them, i know you not, meaning, they ran away when he was about to be crucified even after they saw the miracles.
Those disciples (120 of them ) were those that actually did the will of the father because they held their believe till the end, and because they saw him appear to them after the resurrection.
Today, we christians are already in that kingdom, we don't need to suffer what the disciples suffered in the wilderness when Christianity was about to be established 2000 years ago. We are far better than they.
The list person in Christianity is far better than John the Baptist and Judas Iscariot who died before Christianity was established, and we are better than all the prophets of old testament or Judaism. So, when i see pastors reading old testament for promises, they are just belittling themselves.
And they made people still waiting for rapture, meanwhile, the kingdom of heaven is already inside us in our spirit.
You know,God lives eternally, man lost his eternal life as a result of sin. Jesus restored that eternal life to man by bringing his kingdom down on earth the moment he was crucified.
as many of us that believe are part of that kingdom on earth. That kingdom is christianity.(If you understand Jesus parables when he will say, the kingdom of heaven is like unto...
Jesus is the founder of Christianity,just like Mohammed founded islam.
Christianity started after Christ was crucified, that means, before the crucifixion, it was Judaism, another religion entirely, but the same bible.
God has rejected Judaism(old covenant) and lifted Christianity ( the new covenant which is kingdom of heaven) for salvation.
Hence Christianity is now our faith. Without Christianity our faith it is impossible to please God.

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibyQk8RBXjk

The original video
Here he predicted Wednesday,Thursday and Friday....3 days out of seven in a week at a future indefinite point in time which makes it completely useless in predicting nothing

Says it will be near a railway or an airport. Not sure the entire length of Paris railway but you can bet it must be thousands of miles long. That's is just about as intelligent as predicting that rain will get you wet. Note this detail is missing from the edited version

One is forced to ask,what is the point of such a hopelessly vague 'prophecy'?

There is NOTHING you can point in church today that hasn't existed since Pentecost my broda. So lamenting about these is a tad tedious and unnecessary bloviating. It's like wondering why that the sun is still rising daily in 2015 yet it has always done that since Genesis. What am aksin is, what next after identifying the 'deviations'? Do you wait until the next round of deviations so you can point them out? Martin Luther pointed out the rot in the church and to day we still read him. He did more than criticize; he challenged, wrote about and set the church on fire.

As your friend, am proposing that since you have had enough of the church in Nigeria, start yours free of these very things you can't stand. Holla@ me once you are done

lastmessenger:
Again I have not been called into the minstry as a pastor. Therefore opening a church or fellowship is out of the equation.
Please tell how I am massaging my ego. Is it a lie that the church has derailed from the message of love. Is it not in Nigeria that a man of God charged gate fee for their cross over night? Are you not the same person who uploaded a book titles synagogue of satan? How am I massaging ego by telling the truth. Bro sometimes I don't understand you.

Could you be kind enough to explain to me who are these 'many'

Matthew 7:21 (ESV)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

They effectively wrought miracles in the name of Jesus and here they are cast to hell.

Thanks

paxonel:
I know this thing require thinking to understand, but if you think, you will understand.
Suffering on earth is a direct function of sin..and sin can be inherited. remember,Adam and eve sinned and And mankind inherited death as the consequence. But Jesus died and restore back that eternal life Adam and eve lost.
So, a progeny may not commit any sin But suffers the consequence of the sin his ancestor commited. For example, a father who refuses to send his child to school has sinned, the child may suffer the effect later in life.
Hence, we all need the 10 commandments to guide us.
This explain why God told Joshua, this book of the law shall not depart from you, this is the only way you will prosper.
Now all i have just said falls into the category of this physical realm,excluding the death of Jesus i mentioned .
Now, this is what is obtainable in the spiritual realm.
The lake of fire in revelation means purnishment of death(known as the second death) for unbelievers only, not christians, it is a state of lifelessness or condemnation,where the individual cannot resurrect to enjoy the eternal life that those whose names were found in the book of the lamb are enjoying.
how were their names found in the book of the Lamb?
it is because they believe only, thats all.
Eternal life is real
ressurrection of the dead for believers only,is real
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
We all know what hell is. Hell means grave where the dead (people) are buried.
So,lake of fire is not the same thing as hell.
Hell(grave) is physical and is the same thing as hell fire as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 5:22
....but whosoever shall say(to his brother ), Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
in otherwords,when you tell your brother fool, he is likely kill you out of anger and you die and go to grave (Hellfire ).this one falls into the category of what happen in this physical life.
In summary, no Christian is entitled to lake of fire by any means, But all christians like all humans dies and go to Hellfire (grave) someday. And he is resurected to eternal life after the judgement(it is appointed once for men to die after that,judgement ), which is less than a second ( a period of time that is equivalent to blinking of the eye,in the real sense,the physical death is actually eye blinking, not death )
see 1cor 15: 35 down

You are running away from Reason, can't withstand it. Scriptures are quite clear. Paul says Brothers do perish. Jesus says miracle workers will perish. Many of them. Hebrews says it is IMPOSSIBLE to save believers who have rejected God,a hypothetical statement which is devoid of sense or logic if they can't be 'un-saved' in the first place.

Apostle shdemidemi says, 'that's BS, you can't lose your salvation'
Between Jesus the WORD, Paul His Apostle and Hebrews His Spirit breathed writing on one hand, and a negro who knows neither the scriptures nor the power of God,and who thinks prayers are mere psychological therapeutic exercises, it is a walk in the park discerning garbage

shdemidemi:
Since that isn't clear enough for you,lets take a different route.

What is justification?

You have set such high conditions for serving God as a minister to ensure you never do it. Very smart of you I must say.
Start your own church and continue influencing the few people here. Joagbaje is a pastor and he still frequents NL; they are not mutually exclusive

Criticizing and bellyaching just massages your ego,assure you that you are right. Go ahead, start your own fellowship free of all the garbage you find in these churches bro

lastmessenger:
I have told you that I am not a pastor and have never dreamt to be one. I have also told the conditions that will make me one.
There are different ways to make impact and just typing here could be a way to save one or two people.
Meanwhile I am still reading your book " synagogue of satan"

My broda,
What better way to solve this that beginning your own church on a clean slate free of all these 'errors'. Why be so critical of something you are equally capable of doing? Do it your way

honourhim:
What are you doing to yourself bro? Are you ok with the state of the church now? Too bad if you are.

And must you accuse me falsely to make your point? When did I say I don't believe in the virgin birth or hell fire? Pls watch your tongue o.

My broda,
DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH can only mean destruction of the flesh.
A brother perishing means a brother perishing. Now, after destruction of the flesh, where do you find that flesh? Where do you expect to find a brother that has perished?

This is a totally irrelevant passage to prop your theory.
I beseech you by the mercies of God that you esteem the Word of God above your garbage

shdemidemi:
Upset?



Now, lets use another scripture if it will help matters. A man slept with is father's wife in the church and he got excommunicated. What did Paul say about such person-

1 Cor 5
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 [size=28pt]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus[/size]

Can you see destruction/perish does not necessarily mean 'de-saved'...

You are confusing or confused. You are just another version of Frosbel hiding behind cliches and glib. You have in one swoop struck out 'Hebrew' epistles from NT as of less authority than 'Gentile' epistles.

Are you insinuating that the present salvation plan for Jews is different from Gentiles?

And finally, what is the 'heavenly gift' and 'good word of the Lord'

Hebrews 6:4-5 (KJV)
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Let's study at these people closely;
1. They are ENLIGHTENED
2. They have tasted the heavenly gift
3. They WERE made partakers of Holy Spirit...they received the SEAL as you alluded.
4. They have tasted the good word of the Lord
5. They have tasted the powers of the world to come...probably spiritual gifts

How do you claim that these were not Christians? How better are you than a believer who has had all these?

shdemidemi:
2. to taste, i. e. perceive the flavor of, partake of, enjoy: τίνος, Luke 14:24 (γεύσεται μου τοῦ δείπνου, i. e. shall partake of my banquet); hence, as in Greek writings from Homer down, equivalent to to feel, make trial of, experience: τίνος, Hebrews 6:4

I told you earlier that 'taste' can mean more things than one even in the Greek language, I am sure you get that now. The emphasised is what it means to 'taste'- It says 'equivalent to to feel, make trial of, experience'. Nothing gives an idea of full conviction and persuasion of the gospel of grace by the Jews in the book of Hebrew especially not when they only 'made trial of' the message of Grace Paul taught.

Unlike the Hebrews/Jews, the church believed the gospel completely without the works,rituals and feasts with its demands, thus received the Spirit.

It can also mean LOSS of hair. Cut the BS and tell me what it means not what it can mean.

God says the brother PERISHES not loses something

1Cor 8:11 (KJV)
And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

Here is Young's Literal Translation
1Cor 8:11 (Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible - YL) 11 and the brother who is infirm shall perish by thy knowledge, because of whom Christ died?

shdemidemi:
'Lost' can mean the loss of reward like many people have said in different ways on this thread.

What's your problem negro?

frosbel:
?? to the bolded.

γεύομαι (geuomai)

Strong: G1089

GK: G1174

to taste, Mt. 27:34; Jn. 2:9; absol. to take food, Acts 10:10, et al.; met. to have perception of, experience, Heb. 6:4, 5; 1 Pet. 2:3; θανάτου γεύεσθαι, to experience death, to die, Mt. 16:28, et al.

Stop 'thinking' and start reading. Obviously it means 'to have perception of' or to EXPERIENCE
Now, what is the 'heavenly gift' and 'word of life' in this context?

shdemidemi:
Like English one word can mean different things in Greek, it should be part of our study to robustly check every word, I am sure you agree.

I think it means 'awareness' of heavenly gift.

And lost means what? Going on a picnic?


1 Corinthians 8:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

shdemidemi:
Unnecessary..



Context- Perish- 'lost'

This is not English but Greek my friend
What do you think tasting heavenly gift and the good word of the Lord means?
What is the 'heavenly gift' any way?

shdemidemi:
I am sure you are familiar with contextual nuances. You can check one english word and find ten separate meanings depending on how they were used.

Tasting heavenly gift is different from receiving it

Shdemidemi, you are an extremely intelligent man, mighty in scriptures

What PERISH is Paul talking about?
1 Corinthians 8:10-11King James Version (KJV)
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

shdemidemi:
Peter's epistles were foremost to the Twelve Tribes scattered throughout the nations. If you go through your book of Acts properly, you will realise Peter and James decided to go to the Jews with their message while Paul went to the Gentiles to teach this gospel of justification and Grace without the input of sacrifices, legalism or works.

Paul also confronted the jewish/christian temple worshippers (this included Peter and James) in the book of Galatians to explain his doctrine of Grace without circumcision and other principles and aspects of the law and Jewish traditions. After so much dispute, they agreed that he can take his gospel of Christ to the Gentiles.

As far as I know, I am a non-jew and the bible points me directly to Apostle Paul as my teacher-
Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh(the Jews), and might save some of them.

Does this mean I can't learn from Peter's letters? No. But I will not mix Works with Grace...They are parallel.

It is counterproductive reviling Muslims but calling out their violence and intolerance is not bigotry.
In my country, they are busy assassinating 'moderate' clerics

dorox:
Hello frosbel, I would have agreed with you if I had not witnessed the ferocity with which muslims around the world protested the Danish cartoon. Even the moderates among them took to the streets and beseiged the embassy of many western nations calling for the heads of the publishers of the newspaper.
Moreover in muslim majority countries people are killed for the slightest perceived insult on Muhammad.
To know if islam is actually tolerant ask yourself how long you think the charlie hebdo publisher would be able to stay alive in the streets of a country with no radicalised extremist must muslims where sharia law is practiced?