₦airaland Forum

Neither do you but surely the first thing is to stop wanton destruction of property and stuff. Do you agree?

Alexk2:
when i see pple comment like this, i just smh....lyk seriously, you dont knw what they re passing thru...
may God intervene fast in Jesus name.

Don't play around with words. Study these two other occurrences of the word taste


Matthew 16:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Hebrews 2:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Taste death means dying, taste heavenly gift means receiving the heavenly gift

shdemidemi:
You might have to redefine justification, if a christian will be eventually judged to be saved by 'works' and not wholly by the tremendous salvation by Grace. What do you say 'justification' is again?

Check that word 'taste'... I don't sustain any form of energy from some thing I simply taste. I can keep having a taste and yet starve to death. I must latch on it if I really want to partake in it.

So this statement is not applicable to you or what?


2 Peter 2:20-21 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

shdemidemi:
Yes... The faithful book says I should reckon myself as saved and I believe it with every fibre of my being.


Only God knows. I can only share the gospel that leads to salvation.



WORKS- This isn't a doctrine of GRACE which is a free gift of salvation to all (male,female,old, young, good, bad) that believe. It is actually that of works, whereby you are judged by what you do.

You will not find a statement like this in the epistles of Paul, who happens to be the minister appointed to the church(primarily Gentile).

shdemidemi,
are you 'really saved'?
How do you know those who are 'not really saved'?

shdemidemi:
Very convenient to tell you it shouldn't be so, but is it within my God given privilege to advice God? Never!
Romans 5
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.



It’s very possible to be a backslider as a believer, and never lose your salvation. But on the other hand, for people who were never really saved, it’s not hard for them to turn their back on revealed truth and become an apostate.

Then please explain to me this plain verse

2 Peter 2:20-21 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Suffering on earth is not necessarily a function of sin, else you need to mean that those who suffer most are more sinners and those who suffer the least are less sinners.

Secondly, if consequences of sin are entirely earthly, one may argue that hell is an overkill for sinners who suffer for their sins completely here on earth and then proceed to hell

paxonel:
thanks!
but we were not talking about repentance, we were talking about justification.
repentance is good, but justification and repentance are two different thing.
justification to eternal life is through grace. it is a spiritual gift.
but repentance is physical, it has to do with keeping the law, the law is physical,it is good. that is why God will rebuke us when we commit sin, cos, if we don't repent, we will have the consequence of our action here on this physical earth like anyone else, God is not bias.
But in the spirit where our justification lies in the spirit we are saved in his kingdom whether we repent here on earth and suffer the consequence or our action, or not.
ofcourse, you know everybody on earth commit sin so everybody suffer on earth, depending on the level of your sin.
look at it this way,God is a spirit, if God chooses not too see your sin or the sin of other believers with his spiritual eyes in order that you have eternal life (not in order that you bypass the consequence of your sin here on earth ), you can't force him to do so simply because you are a legal extremist on this physical earth
what is spirit is spirit, and what is physical (carnal ) is physical.
you have to know that truth and be happy, because no man is above comiting sin

Not even apostasy,right?
You can even worship devils and your mansion is still reserved,am I wrong?

shdemidemi:
That is how big the price paid for sin is, heaven gave its very best.... the demand of sin was entirely paid for.

God bless you too.
I don't know what kind of solution you are looking for or whether you just need to talk about it and get it off your chest. I have given you a practical and quite sensible solution; nobody has any right destroying your property or assets for nothing. If I went berserk and started smashing stuff, I can assure you my beloved Empress would secure me admission to the nearest facility

naijainstinct:
The way you chose to begin your comment has made your advice worthless. Thanks for your contribution though. May God bless U!

In short, no amount of sin can take a justified Christian to hell,right?

shdemidemi:
These are two independent natures- The Flesh(Adam) and the spirit(Jesus).

It is only natural for the flesh, propelled by the sinful nature to do what the flesh does- crave for everything that is against God or godliness(Sin).

The spirit on the other hand is a down payment, an assurance that we are saved, the spirit is justified, He cannot sin,leave nor die. Having this spirit does not make you less natural/sinful in the flesh. However, this spirit, if nourished with the Word of God subdue the demands of the flesh and keeps it in control(sanctified).

The presence of the 'new man' is what guarantees our salvation.

Apostle Paul ended chapter 7 with this consolation-

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind(the inner man) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

NB 'Law' here means a corresponding and imperative reaction based on an initial action- e.g Law of gravity

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who are these people who invoked the name of Jesus successfully and are now cast into hell? Were they justified at some point

cc italo, BabaGnoni

shdemidemi:
It will do you a whole lot of good if you attack the issues and not the person as you discuss. If you think anything was added to scripture, it is noble to ask if and how scripture support such additions.

So what happens when this 'sinful nature' goes ahead and sins? Does the man lose his salvation on account of succumbing to its whims?

shdemidemi:
When the bible says we cannot sin as christians, I think it is vital for us to understand what that means. Every true Christian have a dual personality or two natures- A righteousness nature and a sinful nature.

The righteousness nature is the actual person but covered in a sinful body. The righteousness nature is also known as the new man, birthed at regeneration. He cannot sin, He is Holy, He is not visible, He cannot die but can be left dormant if not nourished by the Word of God. Only Christians have this nature- (not because they worked for it but because they believe the gospel)

The visible man is the carrier/conveyor of the sinful nature. He sins, he is in constant enmity with God, He is depraved, He will eventually die, He is not Holy.

Paul used these two personalities interchangeably in Romans 7

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 'me' is the real man/inward man here

22 For I delight in the law of God after the [size=22pt]inward man[/size]:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

For every scripture word you quote, you throw in ten presumptuous/junk sentences and am having a hard time separating your garbage from scriptures. That's why am focused on this particular statement

Who told you after rapture people will be saved by works and not grace? Will we have anything other than eternity after rapture?
You have invented three types of Christians; pre-resurrection, post-resurrection-pre-rapture and post-resurrection-post-rapture and for each of these, you have crafted DIFFERENT means of attaining salvation.

Jesus BEFORE his resurrection gave power to cast out demons and perform miracles to very FEW numbering 72. You are saying the MANY mentioned are some of these who somewhat failed to attain eternity despite invoking the name of Jesus. For this to happen, they must have died BEFORE Jesus resurrected. Clearly it is utterly illogical to claim that this verse was addressing the backslidden pre-resurrection miracle workers who died BEFORE resurrection, who needed 'works' for their salvation

At the back of your head you can see this and this is why you INVENT another group I called post-rerurrection-post-rapture who are saved by something else other than grace but by works. Apparently according to Apostle Shdemidemi, salvation by grace and faith has an expiry date but the power in the name of Jesus to cast out demons and heal survives rapture into an age where we have faith and works formula of salvation

The group Jesus is addressing fall into this group but they MUST NEVER fall into the present post-resurrection-post-pre-rapture age where faith in Christ secures you eternity regardless of whatever you become or do after having this faith

I could ask you to prove from scriptures the expiry of salvation by faith and the rebirth of salvation by works but am sure you can't, you will just ramble about. Please revere the Word of God above your garbage

shdemidemi:
Do you intentionally ignore questions? That is not the best way to engage in an objective debate.

We have a bible proof that some were invoking the name of Jesus to wrought miracles at that time and so many more will do the same after rapture even as they do now.

There are three groups this passage can possibly be addressing, these groups are-

1)The people before the death and resurrection of Jesus who are not under Grace, their sins had not been justified so they will be judged based on their wrong doings ..

2)The people that will commit this form of travesty after rapture. This group would also be judged as guilty based on their wicked works.

3) The justified group under the dispensation of Grace who are not judged by works but by Grace if they [size=20pt]believe[/size].

This is not much about what we think is right but what the bible says. Left to me, I might do things differently but I am in no position to advice God on how I think He should administer judgement.

What do you want him to do? Shake the building and have them lose their balance?

Frosbel,lastmessenger,honourhim
The world is perishing and you are here typing away junk. How heartless! Is that Christlike?
Start your church where your terms are doctrine. Hell is too offensive? Kick it out. Virgin birth is mythical? remove that too.
Clean the house of God of all hedonism. Save vooks from foolishness. Stick to whatever you think is the word of God. Sanitize the scriptures of all adulterations.

Of course am assuming you have enough brains to run a fellowship of two

frosbel:
.

Let me quote the relevant portion just for you

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Substantiate the highlighted. How do you arrive at the idea that their judgement is by 'works' and this quite 'different' from what you will undergo supposing you are justified?

Are they not condemned on the basis of RELATIONSHIP with Christ?

shdemidemi:
Vooks

You did not answer my questions, why?

'Many' of Matthew 7 is referring to a people who will be judged unto salvation by 'dos and don'ts' i.e by Works.

This sort of judgement is not applicable where there is 'justification' by grace through Christ. Under the dispensation of the Holy Spirit, judgement is based on the premise of our believe in the gospel of Christ. If we believe we are save, if we do not we are condemned regardless of moral uprightness.

THis is not about imagining. Souls are trapped in dead religions and traditions not to mention myths. You and frosbel are sitting on your bums instead of rescuing these poor souls

You honestly believe a pastor MUST encounter Jesus and receive specific instruction from him?
Is this Biblical?

lastmessenger:
I have never imagined myself being a pastor. Meanwhile the possibility is there for me to be a pastor only if I can have the same encounter that Paul had with Jesus. Yes A real encounter where I can talk with The Lord and receive specific instruction from him.

Can you please in the fewest words explain to me why you think the 'many' of matthew 7 are pre-resurrection users of the name of Jesus.

Is it because you think post-resurrection users of the same can't possibly go to hell but the pre-resurrection users are not afforded that ASSURANCE?

shdemidemi:
The condition for salvation pre-resurrection is different from post-resurrection, do you agree?





We are presently in the dispensation of the Spirit: A dispensation of Grace, justification and election without works or affiliation. This dispensation will certainly come to an end as explained by Apostle Paul at rapture.

A new dispensation of salvation by works will begin as described in the book of Revelation. agree?

Why don't you,Frosbel and honourhim start yours that is free of 'Christian Hedonism'?

I once heard TD Jakes preach on purpose and he went like your purpose may lie in that which offends you most. If it is poorly arranged music, may be God wants you to get there and sort it out.

Frosbel is fed up with 'traditional Christianity'. Start 'modern Christianity' free of delusions, lies,myths,trash and foolishness

lastmessenger:
Thanks a lot. I do hope to find such group that you are looking for. It will help a lot in this fight of faith.

Jesus said MANY will say on that day. Are you trying to define 'many' as his disciples before his resurrection? they numbered hundreds. At Pentecost they were 120. Go figure

And before I forget, there is NOTHING there to restrict the 'many' to the pre-resurrection users of His name

shdemidemi:
Before the death and resurrection of Christ the disciples were given the power to work miracles.

Matthew 10:10
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

and around this time some other folks were using the same name and authority to perform miracles.

Mark 9:38
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

All of these happened while he was alive and they primarily apply to this time. That is not to say we cannot learn from it, but it does not apply to the present dispensation/administration of the Holy Spirit which is built on THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION.

These lose statements are your bane. So, with Holy Spirit out of the world, how will the sinners be convicted of their sins? Osmosis or radiation? Keep on clinging to that myth of pretrib

If we must look at this in the futuristic sense, it will perfectly fit hand in glove with 'post rapture' i.e after the churh and the Holy Spirit as we have Him today leaves. A time when people will have to suffer and endure tribulation to be saved.

My broda,
When you look at that scripture italo has raised, Jesus speaking BEFORE his death and resurrection was talking future. How could the subjects of that passage invoke the name of Jesus to perform miracles? I thought the name of Jesus was invoked AFTER Pentecost.

Supposing hypothetically the name of Jesus was used BEFORE his ascension, How many disciples did Jesus make? At Pentecost, they were 120. He appeared to about 500 in 1 Cor 15. Let's assume that EVERYONE of these guys invoked the name before the price of Justification had been paid and they perished. Would they really count as MANY?

That passage needs some honest reflection and not brushing. Given these guys could use the name of Jesus EFFECTIVELY, they must have been believers. Otherwise you are left with an awkward situation where unbelievers invoke the name of the Lord they are not submitted to. We saw sons of Sceva attempting this and failing .

What italo the Catholic is raising is serious; under what circumstance can a believer lose his eternal life?
Hard core calvinists will tell you it is IMPOSSIBLE to lose it

Moderates like ayoku777 will tell you that you lose it once you denounce your faith. Theoretically, you can sin and kill everyone in the whole world and still get to heaven because your 'faith' was intact. You can worship devils and offer human sacrifices and still get to heaven because your faith is still there. I note he is careful to mark the point of no return as 'unbelief' something he can't bother define. What is UNBELIEF?

Another clever theory injected is the REWARDS theory. It states that the works and your conduct AFTER coming to Christ earns you a bigger reward in eternity not eternity itself. The lesser you do the lesser the reward/crown. Sin in other words robs you of your reward but not eternity. THis is a softer version of the Hard core calvinism since here you can't lose your eternity as well

There is a fine line between ASSURANCE of salvation and license to sin

Believers who don't find it remotely revolting for men to spend eternity in hell for rejecting Christ are extremely bothered by by the thought of a born again guy perishing in hell. What's the fear of perishing? DOn't you have the Word and the Holy Spirit in you? If that is not sufficient to save you, then nothing will

shdemidemi:
1. Were the people in the passage justified? Yes or no. No! No because the price for justification had not been paid at this time.

2. Did they commit sin? Yes or no. Yes, so they deserve the death/wrath of God.

3. Did the go to heaven? Yes or no. An unjustified sinner goes straight to hell.

My own question-

Did the early church in Corinth commit the act of sin? Yes or No

Did Paul call them Carnal? Yes or No

Did Paul call them saints because of their sanctification and justification by God through Christ? Yes or No

Either her or you (and your mum) are foolish for watching her destroy stuff she never bought. Kick her out and after 3 days dry fast, common sense will come back like a flood.

Son of perdition, you need the Creator not the Creature. Jesus died to save you

sonOfLucifer:
Vooks the fool, why are you spreading lies against my Father?

Install an epub reader and dowload that version or just read it online

ProphetUdeme:
am having troubles downloading the adobe reader to read this pdf format. Can u kindly give us a highlight or summary of the story

Is whatspad available for iOS 8.1.2?

Just read and gain understanding

Redoil:
Why na son of lucifer must no see this

chilling

A blessed and excellent read for all truth seekers by Brother Nosa
[img]http://dwtr67e3ikfml.cloudfront.net/bookCovers/d049d16646655fba80e9b296a328e0d8b802fd93[/img]

Download free
PDF ,epub, kindle(mobi)

SirJohn,
This is interesting. Hope Swahili is not too much to confuse you.

The man Gilbert Deya had a ministry in Kenya and a UK branch. Childless couple were promised miracle babies. This was actually a cover for human trafficking. The wife claimed to give birth SEVERALLY in one year

At one point she had gone to a government hospital with a newborn to register the birth and for maternal care. The doctors got suspicious because she exhibited NO signs of a newly delivered woman. ALmost comical. The Kenyan authorities arrested her and secured a conviction. She is now canned.
Her husband was in the UK. He has used all means to fight extradition unfortunately


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcB4Gwqque4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IvqU3Fqzj8

Look at some headlines here

What's unremarkable is that some people still defend him after this

To answer your question, WHY DO CHRISTIANS (STAGE) FAKE MIRACLES?
1. Profit- the spectacular is a money magnet. The woman with the issue of blood risked stoning just to get the touch. Desperate miracle seekers will pay ANYTHING to get it

2. Foolishness- some believers imagine that they are helping the 'cause' by ascribing fake miracles to Jesus. They think it is perfectly in order to lie to win souls. The end justifies the means

cc dorox, Winsomex,esere826

SirJohn:
Okay guys let me drop a few of my opinions here

Let me start by stating again like I have done before that I believe in miracles. However, like @vooks and several other people have mentioned, I believe miracles are not as frequently occurring as some people would have us believe. It's not because of our unbelief or inefficiencies but simply because it is Almighty Gods will at this time.
There are documented supernatural and miraculous occurrences across the world including medical miracles, and a number of them are not even linked to Christianity nor were some of the recipients true believers.
Like vooks mentioned, its important we accept the reality on ground otherwise we will be snared into false hope and false belief system which eventually leads to the kinds of false testimonies we see today in the pentecostal circles.

The story of Jeff here on Nairaland is an example of how deep this syndrome has eaten into the church. I still find it hard to understand why people fake testimonies and lay claim to miraculous healings that never took place. In the Joagbaje-Jeff scenerio, what could possibly have happened? Why would Jeff openly lie about being cured of HIV? was it all planned? This bit we may never be able to answer like many other such claims.

Sadly, Jeffs case is not the only case I have unraveled in recent times. I remember a couple just like in vooks' story who were married without children for over five years. The couple was then introduced to a woman in PortHarcourt who was said to be an expert in fertility. She promised to help them get children through trado-medical treatment, she even bragged that she could make the woman conceive twins. They were asked to pay I think about 600k for this treatment, a male child went for a higher amount.

They paid and then the woman was given a concoction of herbal drugs and was given a time to meet with her husband. What she didn't know was that the drugs contained substances that mimic pregnancy symptoms including nausea, weight gain, enlarged bosoms, morning sickness and even swollen tommy (surprise right?). She was told that she could only visit the center for ante natal and that pregnancy tests may show negative but that she shouldn't worry about that. To cut the story short, she was also told that her delivery would be done in their centre and only by that woman. Nine months later, this woman was already carrying a bouncing baby girl, some months later, she was dedicating her baby in one of the pentecostal churches in Lagos, but never mentioned she had gone to meet this woman in PH. If you watch Channels news regularly, you would have seen the fake fertility doctor a couple of months back cos she has been arrested.

But here's a shocking twist to true story, this woman was never pregnant, the babies are not hers and she and her husband are unaware till date. she was given a sedative drug during the fake delivery during which she was even cut so she would bleed. I know some people reading this can already relate to it. But in the eyes of the church members and even the pastor, ANOTHER MIRACLE HAD HAPPENED

Get the ORIGINAL video not this video-chopped version and I will show you glaring inconsistencies
1. Was France supposed to be on heightened alert every Wednesday and Thursday? How is that helping?

The world is not waiting for manifestation of Christian leaders to come and rescue it from all that is wrong. Christians should drop these fantasies.

Here is the problem. Whenever Christian leaders disappoint, Christians reject them as non-Christians,but when non-Christians leaders disappoint, Christians claim they failed because they don't fear God. When non-Christians excel, Christians keep mum. And finally when Christian leaders excel, we ascribe it to their faith

That way, the Pentecostal interpretation of this verse will never be disproved


Proverbs 29:2 King James Version (KJV)

2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Let's start a new thread and I will gladly and freely give you comprehension classes

nnenneigbo:
So this your friend, conceived, went on maternity and when you saw her(looks like you didn't even recognise her), she had to remind you of the fact you prayed for her etc etc hmmm!

If you heard some of these statements without any bias, you would not call them prophetic, it is more like predicting earthquakes along fault lines.

'Good' is all about specifics. Any single specific thing you have heard him accurately predict or prophesy? probably none. How about specifics that were epic fails?

be honest as you respond

paulGrundy:
I perfectly understood the point you made. But then you missed out something a sizeable portion of his generalities are not based on future events or anything related to the subject of prediction. E.g see his prophecy number 19.

19. Dangote will not have it smooth this year, he will drop from Africa's richest.

Dangote is doing very fine presently, he is head strong, Nothing has hinted a possible bad omen for him for years to come, so we can say his generalization was not based on anything! That might be proof that it was not guessed. Its occurence would now validate the prediction. It takes an extremely good guesser to do that. As for the bolded, its proof would be in its pudding. Whether the man is doing guess work oh, or he was truly told by god, I don't care! All I can say is that the guy is good.

Winsomex,
Am not Nigerian but I can offer my mind on this. First, a few questions;

1. Can God use or has God used unbelievers to lead nations successfully?
2. How many countries/kingdoms of the world are led by born again Christians presently?
3. Are there genuine case studies of effective leadership over nations by believers as contrasted with unbelievers?

I believe there is a myth that Christians are supposed to make the best in the 'market place' seeing they are the salt of the world. Frankly speaking, the ONLY thing Christians excel in above anybody else is in converting sinners; evangelism.

So am against this idea that for a country to prosper however you define prosperity, you need a Christian at the helm.
Born again leaders don't have a monopoly over morality,wisdom, intelligence or even leadership skills. For this reason, I need to be convinced that Nigeria will fare better under a believer than a non-believer purely on account of their faith. We shall reign forever but not now just as we shall live forever but not yet