₦airaland Forum

I caught you misquoting Jamie Fausset to support your soul sleep heresy and I pointed out that from the same commentary, they entertained consciousness outside the body

Failure to think is blasphemy

frosbel:
Nice to know you quoted a web site that preaches the truth



- Who was this man ?
- This man was not sure if this experience was in or out of the body
- No indication whatsoever than there were people existing in heaven , he only saw great things
- Many people have similar stories albeit with a slightly different twist, in a concept called near death experience.

This scripture does not support your wishful thinking



Makes no sense, try something else

Whatever resurrects is not what died
you died and perished together with your thoughts,memories,character,personality......
Nothing like Frosbel exists between after your death and resurrection
Come resurrection and God creates another Frosbel
The recreated Frosbel has NEVER been on earth, has never testified of Christ, has never suffered persecution, that's a fresh creation. That dummy Frosbel is what enjoys eternity whily you rot in the ground

This is the essence of soul-sleep; You are born, you die and perish. Come resurrection and God creates ANOTHER you

frosbel:
Clone ?

The resurrection will be a bodily one...........

Frosbel,
You are mindlessly regurgitating this garbage without thinking
http://resurrectionhope.org/page11.html

Let us look at Jamie Fausset Commentary on 2 COrinthians 12:2
2 Corinthians 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

I cannot tell—rather as Greek, "I know not." If in the body, he must have been caught up bodily; if out of the body, as seems to be Paul's opinion, his spirit must have been caught up out of the body. At all events he recognizes the possibility of conscious receptivity in disembodied spirits.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/2_corinthians/12.htm

Try to apply some intelligence in misquoting men of God

frosbel:
@CANTICLES , you have done a great job educating these chaps but they prefer delusion to reality.

If the whole MAN is not resurrected then what is the point of the resurrection ? The Liars say that when a man dies he is not actually dead, it is only a pretend game because the spirit is somewhere else.

This is what William Tyndale and John Wesley had to say to these out clueless ones:

William Tyndale who, with Coverdale, translated the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English for the first time in 1535, said this, when debating with a Roman priest about resurrection: "Ye, in putting departed souls in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection. If there should be a heaven, tell me why they are not in as good care as the angels be, and then what cause is there of a resurrection?" The same error causes people today to ask- "If the dead are already in a blissful paradise, why must there yet be a resurrection?" If, however, we accept the Bible truth that the dead know not anything, that they sleep in death, then the resurrection at Jesus' return assumes the importance the Bible places upon it.

John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church, said in a sermon on Luke 16:31, "It is indeed generally supposed that the souls of good men as soon as dislodged from the body, go directly to heaven, but this opinion has not the least foundation in the oracles of God."

Resurrection of the dead EQUALLY bothered Saducces and they attempted to prove the irrationality of the same
CANTICLES you are a Saduccee

Acts 23:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

This verse you are quoting, you don't know exactly what about the resurrection of the dead that Paul taught tickled them. You have to dig into history of these guys,making assumptions about their faith

I can see a CANTICLES/frosbel clone in heaven receiving a crown over a fossilized CANTICLES'/Frosbel labor of love under the sun. For a good measure,God will reward the clone with your thoughts,memory to make it look like you!
Truth be told, that clone was never on earth

CANTICLES:
" Now when they heard of a ressurection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said ' we will hear you again about this ' so Paul Left Them" Act 17:32,33

Resurrection of the dead is wonderful
It is creation of dummies and installing ancient memories of CANTICLES that baffles. Soul sleep heresy is lunacy on stilts
CANTICLES once you check out and we inter you, that's it. Come resurrection and God will make another CANTICLES and enjoy eternity with him. That is if you are lucky enough not to remain in the dust.

You will have your clone enjoying eternity out of your sweat as you rot and fossilize in the grave

The difference between sinner CANTICLES and righteous CANTICLES is that God makes a dummy of one and not the other.

CANTICLES:
Ressurection of the DEAD sounds very foolish to you !!! The same eway it sounds foolish to the greeks who hold the doctrine of immortal soul ( Read Act 17:31,32 , and see how the apostle paul had a hard time explaining Ressurection to immortal soul philosophers) !! #smiles# its been happening many years ago

For your info:

Even king David didnt acend to heaven when he dies, He REMAIN IN THE GRAVE ( Act 2:29,34).

GOD told daniel : " go and Rest and u wil stand up for your share at the end of the days"

At ressurection ....... " Many of those Asleep IN THE DUST of the earth will wake up" Danie 12:2 !

You are running away from my question
Are you perfectly at ease with your dummy inheriting eternal life?

CAPTIVATOR:
1) What does the bible refer to as spirit in man and animals ?

2) Is it the same as the breath of life ??

3) do animals av the breath of life ??

4) when Jesus commend his spirit to God in luke 23:46 before his death , was he in heaven ??

You will never enjoy eternity. Does that surprise you?
The difference between you and the sinner is God will recreate your clone and load it with your mind and pretend that it is you
He won't waste time with the sinner's clone

Meditate over that

CAPTIVATOR:
We are gradually gettin there : thanks to JEHOVAH God and my master Jesus Christ!

What is this spirit in man? Because animals also have this "same spirit " in them - ecc 3 : 19-21 !!

Your thoughts will cease to exist
So God recreates them at resurrection?
Your body too
He recreates it at resurrection
The recreated you was never on earth

CAPTIVATOR:
" There is going to be a ressurection" Act 24:15
" Ressurection of the dead" heb 6:2 NOT ressurection of d livin

That is because the spirit of lazarus returned to him.
If you can't see the absurdity of your position you need prayers

CAPTIVATOR:
Jesus Ressurect A Decomposed Lazarus of bethany .. Already smellin dead man.... WITH A FRESH BODY,( JOH11: 11 - 30) yet he still RECOGNIZE Martha and Mary as his sisters !!

The resurected dead daughter of Jairus also recognize his parents

GO and read more about what Jesus will accomplish at resurection of the dead

Reductio ad absurdum
Their soul-sleep heresy leads them to very absurd conclusion; that the dead will NEVER reap everlasting life. God will recreate dummies in their stead. He will recreate Abraham,Isaac,Moses and so forth

honourhim:
Honestly both of them are so dumb and in a very pitiable state.

They won't answer you until they cook up the lies that they ll tell.

CAPTIVATOR and frosbel,
How comes you shy away from my question?
Both of you are dying.
Assume you are to resurrect.
What will inherit eternal life is not frosbel nor CAPTIVATOR since you ceased to exist the moment you died
God creates your lookalikes, fills them with your memory,character and personality he had stashed somewhere and enjoys eternity with them on account of what you did on earth
Those lookalikes/fakes are not you. They were never on earth, they never persevered nothing, they never resisted temptation

That is your Saduccee theology in a nutshell the only difference being that you believe in 'resurrection' while Sadducees never believed in that

Can you see how dumb and unintelligent this thinking is?

cc
mbaemeka
Nlmediator

What will resurrect? Where will they be before they resurrect?

dolphinheart:
Sir , Gods idea that you mentioned above is far from my own understanding of the bible and I never mentioned such .

In relation to my first post, I will relate to u my understanding of what happens to man in the future.

When God first created man, he created him out of dust and blew into his nostrils the breathe of life and that man became a living soul.

God gave that man commands which includes how to continue living and what not to do so as not to continue living.
Man did not follow the command, man sinned, and thus could not continue living .
In condeming man to death, God said, "dust you are and to dust you return" .
Adam lost a perfect life.
For Adam offsprings who 1. God knew ir was not there fault that they lost perfection 2. God loved and 3. God wanted them to have an opportunity of gaining evalasting life , he sent his son to redeem us back to him and help us gain back what Adam lost.

So what happens in the future.
In the future there are going to be two resurrections. The first are those who will rule with jesus over mankind for a thousand years .the second ressurection are those who will live, attain perfection, and get to know about jesus and God for that thousand. Years.
After the 1000 years, Satan will be let loose to tempt them for a while, then they will be judged on these.
They will not be judged on there former life, if they are part of the unrighteaous, why? Because the bible said that the wages of sin is death, the price that you pay for sinning is to go to the grave when you die .

One thing we should note is that evalasting life is a gift, if we reject the gift and the conditions it comes with, we will have no life(talk less of purnishment) , if u have no life, you have no memory, senses, thoughts, imagination or aspirations, u simply dnt exist.

Wikipedia can be edited by ANYBODY.

italo:
[url][/url]One person said that without any sort of proof in a forum and you have FAITH in that erson because it suits your agenda. Yet you have been maligning all that were involved in verifying the Eucharistic miracles because they disagree with your agenda.

Well, here's a photo of the WHO report, confirming Dr Linoli's findings that:

http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eucharistic_Miracle_of_Lanciano_-_public_documentation_-_commissione_medica_OMS-ONU.JPG

The Flesh is real flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (The blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of fresh normal blood.
In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

What is your next flimsy excuse?

There is nothing like Higher Council of the World Health Organization. SOmebody confirmed that for me. It is pointless reinventing the wheel
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=203341
http://arumanchan..com/2008/08/eucharist-miracles-miracle-of-lanciano.html

italo:
It's you who has to verify, remember?

You write WHO, the Diocese of Lanciano, start by going to see the flesh and blood.

He is waiting for you.

You're just full of flimsy excuses. The reason is that you're not seeking truth, but you're seeking to guard a paradigm.

There are thousands of miracles for anyone seeking truth to investigate.

The Lourdes Medical Bureau has scores of very well documented healing miracles.

The Medical committee at Lourdes is totally independent of the Church. They use skeptics on the committees, the rules are geared to control for remission. They are required to use only the best medical evidence, to consult the doctors of the patients and they cannot make decisions without obtaining the medical records of those doctors. They do examine the patients. It does have to be proven that the people were sick beforehand! they will only choose a case when they cannot find a naturalistic explaination.

But people like you would rather die in ignorance than make an educated research about these miracles.

dorox,
So we are saying that all who reject Jesus just die and never rise to judgement their judgement being they remain non-existent/ dead?

Then we get into Judgement and suddenly men are immortal/incapable of death for a period of 1000 years. They can procreate but they will never die. During this judgement, some survive and earn eternity while the rest are cast into the lake of fire?

dorox:
Not everyone who has ever lived will be resurrected. Only those who have exercised faith in Christ and those who despite not knowing Christ had some redeeming qualities. People act like they are the offspring of satan e.g the pharisees of Jesus day will definitely not be resurrected.

If he is everlasting priest, why was there need to put Jesus in that office since it had an everlasting occupant?

Malawian:
bros, Melchizedek, whoever or whatever he is, is an Everelasting Priest !

You want proof that you are hallucinating?
Write to WHO and ask them. Higher Office is another Catholicism BS

Blasphemy is failure to use your head

italo:
Proof?

Except there has never been any office or department of WHO called Higher Council of World Health Organisation at any point in the history of that body.

Failure to think is blasphemy

italo:
We are in the process of doing that.

If you want another Eucharistic miracle that has been completely and officially documented, so that you can create new excuses, read about The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano which happened 12 centuries ago. Dr Linoli examined it in 1970-71 and made the following findings:

The Flesh is real flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (The blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of fresh normal blood.
In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.


In 1973, the Higher Council of the World Health Organization (WHO) appointed a scientific commission to verify the Italian doctor's conclusions. The work was carried out over 15 months with a total of 500 examinations. The conclusions of all the researches confirmed what had been stated and published in Italy.

The extract of the scientific research of WHO's medical commission was published in New York and Geneva in 1976, confirming science's inability to explain the phenomenon.

Now you can confirm from the WHO, the diocese of Lanciano, you can see the flesh and blood up till now.

There is no excuse for you anymore.

Get up and investigate.

You can't name your sources. How pathetic. That's shamanism not scholarly efforts

Ubenedictus:
thanks be to God new advent catholic encyclopedia is not an authoritative source for doctrines or practices.

It is sometime prone to ignoring patrisic evidence or dismissing them outright.

First of all, that encyclopedia mention origen as source forgetting that origen was condemned severally by his bishops for holding heretic views and embracing platonic ideas that are not in line with christian doctrines and pronuced anathema in the council of constantinople.

It forgets that d easiest way to know d feast celebrated in rome is to check d pontifical libera, and that in 115 it is recorded that pope telesphorus added dat midnight mass should be celebrated before morning christmas mass. It dismisses the fact that all d manuscript of commentary of daniels by hyppoletus clearly shows that christmas was celebrated in rome between 160 and 205, so just 15yrs after d death of John d apostle we have proof dat christmas had already been celebrated in rome long before.

So at the outset of Judgement,Everyone resurrects, the righteous to reigning for 1000 years and the unrighteous to judgement lasting 1000 years?

And during this 1000 years guys don't die but are capable of accepting or rejecting God?

dorox:
Before I answer your questions let me first of all let you know that I hold the view that there are two types of resurrection; the first is made up of a limited number of people who will have a heavenly resurrection and will reign with Christ. The second resurrection is for those who would inhabit the earth as was originally purposed by God when He created Adam.
1. Everyone resurrected to an earthly life. They will be like Adam was meant to be; the will become perfect at the end of the thousand years. The will not be immortal, but can live indefinitely. So yes, if for some reason someone decides that paradise is boring, that person can in theory end his life forever.
There will be no murder. God will not allow it.

2. They will reign over those on earth.

3. Many would.

4. Armageddon.

The scientific angle is interesting but still it does not answer my question.
Am not concerned about God's ability to reconstruct anything. He made us first so nothing is too hard
The question is whether God's idea of judgment is creating bodies afresh and downloading into them thousands of years old memories and then condemning them! The body that receives punishment is certainly different from the one that sinned. Similarly, the bodies that make it to eternity are completely different from the ones that put their faith in CHrist. None deserves their reward

dolphinheart:
This is from my own personal observation of the human body .

If God reconstructs ur brain, the synapse, cells, hormones etc, exactly as it nearly was before death , this time removing the cause of death and blowing into its nostril the breath of life, the human will remember and have memory of events.

Why do I say this , memories are collected from our senses in our body , u cannot remember, record, analyse, learn or use any info unless it is being first received by the senses . This is recorded in ur brain and can be altered by science ( to show u that memory is physical) .
Example of physical procedures affecting our beliefs, faith, actions , memories, purpose, thoughts is when a sane man is being made to do things contrary to his nature through drugs and when a crazed fellow is being made sane through drugs and other physical procedures.

So therefore, if ur brain is being reconstructed to be exactly the same it was before you died(with the same cell structure and number of cells), ur memory will come back with you .

The reason the bible says that at death u have no thoughts , dreams ambition and memory is because at the point of death , the force that enables you to activate ur cells (those energy that pass info from cell to cell, which govern ur thoughts) has left ur body .

I stand to be corrected.

bro, it's all too hazy and thanks for trying to help me understand

You don't have to quote verses for now, just tell me;
1. WHO will be judged over 1000 years? Will they die like we die today say from murder,suicide....?
2. Over whom will the resurrected in Christ reign?
3. Do the dead 'outside' Christ,those who never put their faith in him BEFORE 1000 years of judgement ever get to resurrect?
4. Is there any incidence/event that will trigger the Judgement day of 1000 years? If yes, what is it?

dorox:
Revelation 20: 6 says "Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."
The first ressurection is for those who are to reign with christ fir a thousand years while the second ressurection is those who will be ruled and made perfect for one thousand years.

There is not a single statement ascribed to Zugibe that exists outside Catholicism blogs on this miracle of the century; the first scientifically documented transubstantiation

Video evidence need verification

I can't reach Canstaqntine or whatever, he seems content farting hearsay that inviting objective examination of his findings

Can I be a prophet for once? I can tell you for sure that the remnant wafer in distilled water is nowhere to be found. It disappeared!

Constantine could have done the most obvious; rush to Buenos Aires and conduct another test on the wafer. But he is allergic to facts

Dawkins is too busy to investigate trash

italo:
I have given you what he found the consecrated host to be, as attested to by those who took the piece of the host to him.

Castanon was shooting videos as evidence for people like you.

Videos are evidences too.

Watch the video. Reach the other people involved. If you can't, reach the, people, groups or organizations they were involved with. That's how to go after information like this.

Why don't you leave a message on Richard Dawkins (your Atheist high priest) facebook...and tic toc?

Go the whole mile. Document your findings and avail them for all to see.
Don't put faith in me, am not Christ. Just sort garbage from trash

italo:
So now you dont want verification.

You just want us to have faith in you and believe your position is right.

Thank you dorox for your taking your time.
I meant will men during the 1000 years die like they do today?
And who gets to go through the judgement? is it only those alive at the beginning of the 1000 years, the ones who never put their faith in Christ or what?

dorox:
Those who prove to be unrighteous are cast into the lame of fire which means the second death.
So if one should die, it is because that person is truly evil, there will never be a ressurection for that person. Such a death is forever.

Will there be death during this period?

dorox:
Think of it this way, we are all condemned to die because of our inherited sin. So we pay the price of sin with our lives when we die, so in that sense we are freed from our bondage to sin having paid with our dear lives.

This is where Jesus Christ comes in. He paid the price of our sinful nature with his perfect human life so that those exercising faith in him will no loner perish but have everlasting life.
So the answer to your question is no. The course of action you take now can determine if you would benefit from Jesus' ransom sacrifice. Withou Jesus we are just like animals that are here today and are forever gone the next day. But with Jesus we have that of of a ressurection.
The judgement day is a future event that is a thousand years long. During this time people would be restored to the same perfect state like Adam. And at the end of the thousand years satan would be released one last time for a very short period in what revelation described as the second test.
People will be judged based on what they in the one thousand years and during the test.

Philippians 2:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He knows you need it. Know the way a kid screams when getting some vaccine jabs? That's you son of perdition. Jesus loves you

sonOfLucifer:
He should have had the decency to ask first. Who sacrifices himself without my permission? Did I ask him to? He was stupid and got served.

he laid down his life for you

sonOfLucifer:
Jesus was killed for blasphemy.

Catholic Encyclopaedia told me that nonsense

Early celebration

Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts; Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Hom. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, not saints, celebrate their birthday; Arnobius (VII, 32 in P.L., V, 1264) can still ridicule the "birthdays" of the gods.

Alexandria
The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt. About A.D. 200, Clement of Alexandria (Stromata I.21) says that certain Egyptian theologians "over curiously" assign, not the year alone, but the day of Christ's birth, placing it on 25 Pachon (20 May) in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus. [Ideler (Chron., II, 397, n.) thought they did this believing that the ninth month, in which Christ was born, was the ninth of their own calendar.] Others reached the date of 24 or 25 Pharmuthi (19 or 20 April). With Clement's evidence may be mentioned the "De paschæ computus", written in 243 and falsely ascribed to Cyprian (P.L., IV, 963 sqq.), which places Christ's birth on 28 March, because on that day the material sun was created. But Lupi has shown (Zaccaria, Dissertazioni ecc. del p. A.M. Lupi, Faenza, 1785, p. 219) that there is no month in the year to which respectable authorities have not assigned Christ's birth. Clement, however, also tells us that the Basilidians

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

Ubenedictus:
who told you dat nonesense, hoppolytus record that christmas is celebrated years before 160 AD. So my dear go back and research.

So nothing I do on earth matters because I will be judged on the basis of my future actions during Judgement 'day'?

CAPTIVATOR:
" The wages of sin is death" Rom6:23 ! Once a person "fall ASLEEP in death" Act 7:60 , such a person has paid the penalty for his sin and thus now freed !

" he who has died , his FREE from his sin" Rom6:7

So, people are not judged base on their previous sin that has been freed !

Mankind that receive resurection will be judged base on what they did durin the Judgement Day!
" For God has SET A DAY to judge the earth ... Thru a man he has appointed ( Christ Jesus)" Act 17:31

When God set a day, it equals 1,000years ( 2pet 3:9)

This is the Christ 1,000 year reign spoken in revelation ... Those who pursue righteousness receive everlasting life ! While the wicked suffer second " DEATH" rev 21:8! Anythin dat suffers second death, "will be no more" Rev 21:4 !

"the Wicked Will b no more"psal 37:9-11

" God WILL NOT preserve the wicked alive" Job 36:6