₦airaland Forum

Mumu,
That processed fraction comes from somebody who DONATED blood
If you reject stealing cars, and went out of your way to protect yours from theft, would you and your fellow m0rons need to pray about using car parts that came from a stolen car?

CANTICLES:
What does "faithful and discreet servant" got to do with this discussion ??

Pls, wait ! Are they the ones that wrote Act 15:29 !!! Am discussin Act 15:29 with u and not any any discreet servant . ..... U really suprised me .

Due to Act 15:29 , Jehovah's Witnesses Refuse Transfusion Of The Fluid Called " BLOOD" ! Which we are to abstain , neither do they support it by donating a sacred blood ... Thats the stand .

It was some individuals who realise that blood contains 4 elements ( red cell, white cell, platelet, plasma) !!! ..... Their conscience bliv taking blood means absorbing all these components !! but takin a processed fraction e.g a fraction from ONLY PLASMA! (a single unit, which have been divided) Is permited by their conscience . Moreover such ones are also required to pray about it ...... All Thanks to God, bloodless surgery is been adopted by most medical practitioners of our era everyday.

So the ' Faithful and Discrete Servant' rejects blood donation but leaves it to the 'conscience' of their members to decide if they are going to be beneficiaries of a 'practice that God condemns'?

CANTICLES:
Once again .... Lets go back to Act 15:29

Keep abstaining from things sacrificed to Idols

From blood

From what is strangled

From fornication

Idols are prohibited, so also is anythin sacrificed to them .... But will i abstain from idols and things sacrificed to them, if i work in an idol temple or shrine ?

From fornication: fornication is a sin! Fine, but will i abstain from fornication by workin in a brothel or owning a LovePeddler house ?? Am supportin it .

From things strangled: ask an hunter, hw disgustin meat tastes if its blood is retained in it.

From blood: if God consider blood so sacred, and tell us not to consume it ... Will I be abstaining by givin it to others to consume ??

If u see what it means to abstain fornication and idols, why not blood ?

Donating blood for consumption is clearly an act of supportin a practice that God condemns .

JMAN05:
First, the Slave is not the same as the Watchtower society.

Semantics or innocent BS

Second, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is not made up of a single human.

They still manufacture garbage for you

Third, not what I call, but what the Bible calls Faithful and discreet Slave. Matt 24:45

You can't prove HOW you jump from scriptures to Watchtower Society, and what Jehovah was using BEFORE it was born

I searched for the true religion on my own, I found it among JWs, and what I believed now, I found it on my own, though most of it were with the help of the witnesses.

Name ONE doctrine you hold that differs with Watchtower Society garbage

But I want to mention Trinity. Even while in he church, I never believed that rubbish. In short when I call trinity in the church, I never knew that that was what it meant, so it means I never even believed it while there.

I say these 'cos some of the points I use in defending my belief in this forum are not all from our publications, many are from my personal research. I read my bible everyday, consult commentaries, bible dictionaries, and enclopedias. Though the Slave open my eye to some truths, they don't determine for me what I believe. However, I am yet to see a group who love truth and stick to the scriptures like the witnesses.

LITTLE of JWS beliefs are completely unique. I can only think of the evolving blood transfusion. Doctrines don't make cults, it is CONTROL. Read PaulGrundy's thread on this. That's a true servant of Jehovah.

https://www.nairaland.com/2063687/discussion-whether-watchtower-society-cult#29241878

And your mistake is that; You think that you must accept all that is taught by the Slave as far as it was the Slave that said it. That is falsehood. You have to prove that teaching to yourself. You don't just swallow them. Gullibility is never encouraged, you have to check whether it is true. If after studying it, and you don't accept it, keep it to yourself and be patient. So, all what I believe now, I found it myself, though many is with there help.

Name ANYTHING you differ with Watchtower Society on

Now, from your reasoning above, The doctrine of early Christians issue from the apostles and the older men in Jerusalem. What do you call them? Cult?

These were EYEWITNESSES of the resurrected Christ, appointed by none other than Christ. Who appoints your AUTHORITY?

JWs do not have a human leader.

BS. Is Watchtower Society ran by aliens?

That there must be only one true Christian organization is a truth from the scriptures. Eph 4:4, 5

Where was it UNTIL 1919?

Salvation is only found in submitting to this Society is false.

Yooguyz school him on this

Just imagine the white man and the insurmountable odds he faced exorcising primitivity from you to the point where you can communicate so eloquently in his language! There is hope for the Negro

Now,
1. How many controlled demolitions have we had in this Negro land?
2. Of these, how many took place in Nigeria?
3. How many controlled demolitions in the ENTIRE world took place surreptitiously in a building fully occupied 24/7?

The fact that negroes buy this BS is the best evidence that Negro is at least 100 light years behind his former colonial master

Onegai:
It is not worth it. Trust me, I speak from experience. I went from being very socially-conscious and trying to change society to being able to calmly ignore any calamity I see, as long as it is a Nigerian's. I feel bad, but seriously, not one person here is fighting for good, it's all their stomach, their ego, their tribe, their religion, their gender, their orientation, etc. I used to be appalled by it, but even Nigerians living in Nigeria discouraged me I have friends more concerned with what is going on with ISIS than BH (infact they keep hoping BH bombs Lagos). When I complain, they ask me "what is there to save in this godforsaken hellhole?"

Is blood donation a matter of conscience or is it settled that the same is outrightly banned/rejected?

CANTICLES:
.... TRUTH remains that Jehovah's Witnesses reject blood transfusion ( Act 15:29) !!

But about the small fractions that are made out of blood !!! ... We have different conscience, I personally believe abstaining from blood includes not taking even the fractions from blood ...

But some people's conscience may not allow them receive blood in its full combination ( red blood cell, white blood cell,platelet,Plasma) .... But their conscience permits them to receive a fraction made from a part of blood e.g a fraction from plasma .. ITS THEIR CONSCIENCE!!! BUT SUCH CHRISTIAN SHOULD PRAY ABOUT THIS DECISION

Quit burying your head in the sand,
You can't donate blood but you would gladly recieve Blood COMPONENTS and half convince yourself thAt that is not blood

Looks like the biggest qualification for a JW is brainlessness.

And I stumbled into this gem. Of course you would never read 'apostate' literature but I have a feeling you are intelligent enough to see through your unremarkable BS
May Jehovah enlarge his coasts!

Some illustrations help explain the inconsistency of allowing blood components but not full blood. If stealing and reselling a car is a crime, would it be any less of a crime if the thief took the car apart and sold only components of it? Or when God told Adam and Eve not to eat of Tree of Knowledge, would they have been justified if they cut it up and made it into jam prior to eating it?

This double standard has also led to Jehovah's Witnesses taking from society something that they are not prepared to give back. Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to donate blood for the benefit of other people, but they partake of the medical benefits that arise from the donated blood supply freely for themselves.

With a lack of consistent reasoning on which to base its blood transfusion doctrine, the Watchtower consistently relies on fear as a motivator to abstain from blood. A number of Watchtower articles instil fear of blood into the average Witness. A look at the Watchtower Index shows a preoccupation with topics relating to the danger of blood transfusions, blood being contaminated with AIDS, fungus and hepatitis and blood being big business. Consider the following statements;

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php

CANTICLES:
!

What is this one saying ? Av respond to the thread ! .... Its blood transfusion NOT water transfusion , what is been tranfused is " Blood" ! Read what the scripture say about Blood in Act 15:29 ........ Stop clingin to the 90's , this is 21st century where blood transfusion is no more safe unless u want to worsen ur condition, ...Bloodless Surgey Is Been Practice All Over The World ! Most Of All " Abstain From Blood" warns the bible !

Yooguyz,
I always say that if a doctrine is too embarrassing to admit publicly, then most probably it is false

Yooguyz:
@vooks, the bolded is inaccurate because watchtowers serious sin extends more than fornication and adultery which was put forth in the bible:



Jwfacts.com

BBG,
I have little tolerance for amateur skeptics,half-baked thinkers and hypocrites. Am very much at ease with antitheists like Dawkins.

BabaGnoni:
^^^
Are you minding "yeye-dey-smell" frosbel
- a seed is a tree, is a forest...

vooks you're making frosbel fidget, wince & grimace with all these questions you are throwing at him

CANTICLES,
You can't even half convince yourself.
Respond to the substance of this thread or watch in horror as your belief sysmem is dissected publicly

JWS blood transfusion stance has EVOLVED over time to the point where some blood components are 'admissible'.

I had a JW buddy stammer trying to convince me that organ transplant is cannibalism
[quote author=CANTICLES
post=29245124]SORRY @ op

A person can only be disfellowshipped if he/she commits a SERIOUS SIN, such as "fornication" or "adultery" e.t.c ( according to 1 COR 5:11-13) which says "remove the wicked person from among yourselves"

1) Jehovah's Witnesses dont shun , they only follow the advice found in 1cor 5:11 which some people misconstruct as shunning .

" But Now I am writing you to stop associating with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolateror a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, NOT EVEN EATING WITH SUCH A MAN " 1 COR 5:11 ..... The op is highly sufferin from the fact that they take this instruction seriously !!! Probably they av stop associating with him ... Sorry !

2) Blood transfusion: what is transfused? BLOOD !
Put the watchtower aside, if my doctor says " abtain from alcohol" !!! .... But i went ahead and say " nurse, pls i cant open my mouth coz am weak, but my system needs alcohol badly... Jeez can u pls tranfuse some into my body" ..... Am I followin the instruction to abstain from alcohol ? Only hypocrites will say "YES, aftrall am not consumin it thru the mouth!" . Dont be an hypocrite

Someone Greater Than Doctor Says " ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD" ! Act 15:29 ..... Will i be followin this instruction if i transfuse into my body system ? NO! Also, Remember the previous illustration ,!!

Many people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses are now rejecting blood transfusion ! Its not safe ...... WAKE UP! BLOODLESS SURGERY IS NOW HIGHLY ADVANCING IN THE WORLD. INFACT THE BEST[/quote]

PaulGrundy,
You are a gem

Frosbel,
Why do you demand evidence of sheol/hell and you restrict the same to OT? Is it because OT is purer than NT?

You have zero confidence in NT, why should you have any in OT?

Why do you believe in any scriptures?

And could you please tell me what 'Let US make man in OUR own image ' means? Who/what is US?

Am not rooting for African spiritism or anything, just saying it is dishonest to blame the pentecostal minister.

The negro lives in a hard environment full of poverty,ignorance/minimal education and illiteracy and these are the true causes of his mindset.

Ministers fornicating has nothing to do with witchcraft or Africa

Ministers competing with medical science, that is exaggeration. Fringe sects that shun medical science are not unique to Africa.

Am trying to imagine how an American who has never been to Africa will view Christians in Africa after listening to this man. This guy is exaggerating

WinsomeX:
I think it is the preacher's fault. The fault cannot be placed on the African because every people have their culture. Though Western culture has been greatly influenced by Christianity, there was a time it was not so. When Christianity comes into a people's culture, it is the duty of the minister to preach the Word and not to marry the Word with the people's culture. The preacher must educate on the beneficials in each culture without compromising gospel truth

The interesting thing about the gospel is that it doesn't deny people their cultural practices, except of course those in opposition to biblical truths. Christianity preaches Christ. When Jesus enters a culture, he refines it.

So the minister should preach the Word. Get a people to know God and live out gospel truths. In addition, they can keep their culture. Some cultural practices in my tribe I still cherish are:

1. Family, extended family ties. Taking of the elderly.
2. Respect. Deferring to people older than you even by a few months. Not calking your seniors by name directly.
3. Marriage: wife's utmost respect for husbands. Divorce seen as taboo.

And so on.

There is no universally accepted definition of cults. But there are some characteristics that firmly put JWS in that category;
1. Authority/source of doctrine- they are derived from one institution called Watchtower Society WITHOUT exception. This is what you call 'faithful and discreet servant'. If you doubt this, you may want to show me some things you discovered on your own without resorting to Watchtower literature,or any belief that you hold that contradicts Watchtower

2. Exclusivity- JWS believe EVERYONE outside them are apostates and salvation is ONLY found in submitting to this Society


Cc
PaulGrundy

JMAN05:
Jehovah's witnesses are no cult.

The term “cult” means different things to different people. However, consider two common perceptions regarding cults and why those perceptions don’t apply to us.

Some think of a cult as being a new or unorthodox religion. Jehovah’s Witnesses have not invented a new religion. On the contrary, we pattern our worship after that of the first-century Christians, whose example and teachings were recorded in the Bible. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) We believe that the Holy Scriptures should be the authority on what is orthodox in matters of worship.

Some think of a cult as being a dangerous religious sect with a human leader. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not look to any human as their leader. Rather, we adhere to the standard that Jesus set for his followers when he stated: “Your Leader is one, the Christ.”—Matthew 23:10.

Far from being a dangerous cult, Jehovah’s Witnesses practice a religion that benefits its members and others in the community. For example, our ministry has helped many people to overcome harmful addictions, such as the abuse of drugs and alcohol. In addition, we conduct literacy classes around the world, helping thousands learn to read and write. And we are actively involved in disaster relief. We work hard to have a positive impact on others, just as Jesus commanded his followers to do.—Matthew 5:13-16.

Winsomex,
Ever heard of blackspots?
Sections of roads that are accident prone?
I have heard how demons cause accidents and through ancient shrines near or on the roads, they make blackspots.

So a senior government leader passed by a human roadkill at a black spot and he ordered that bumps be erected. The place was a junction. There has not been any accident let alone fatality in the last one year. Got me thinking whether demons can be cast out by bumps better than anointing oil.

The point is, the tendency to see demons behind ANY problem/disease is endemic in Africa,and to this extent I agree with Mbewe. This spiritualizing has one major effect; reducing believers into mere bystanders in life instead of attempting to solve the problem.

But is this really a preacher's fault or the African's?

You were right. There was something cooking.
I wonder where she is Pastoring seeing she left CE

jenivert:
My heartfelt prayers go out to Pastor Anita, because it can't be easy for her or their children. Pastor Chris should come clean with the members that have a vested interest in his well being about what is happening so that God can truly help him.

What do you understand by the word Bible?
I apologise for assuming too much

GooseBaba:
Ha....which nonsense soft landing... Where in the bible did any biblical character use the word john chapter eleven verse thirty five....!? that was my statement that he Challenge.. NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DID A CHARACTER IN THE BIBLE QUOTE SCRIPTURES FROM THE BIBLE...!

I guess you answer it by fluke... Smh.. All these bible thumpers..

So, when do you reckon it was compiled? Last year?

They had the old testament canon long before Christ was born

Luke 11:51King James Version (KJV)

51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
In this verse you decipher the Old Testament canon. Your assignment for the rest of the year is to go figure this

GooseBaba:
Story story.... The bible was not complied then, therfore they couldn't have quoted scriptures from the bible... Get it......
..

There is no 'gist' here. What's the difference between me quoting scriptures thus, 'Jesus Wept' and "The Bible says in the Gospel of Saint John chapter eleven and verse thirty five,'Jesus wept'"?

BabaGnoni is way too kind and he offered a soft landing but you are hellbent on arguing even when you are clearly wrong.

GooseBaba:
Ha..! So you get the gist..... That's all my statement stood on... And he is busy running from pillar to post..

I call it initial gra gra...

6 humble pies... No way I'm watching my calories intake..

Talk to PaulGrundy
Nobody has ever seen God the Father, the Israelites saw the Son. When you start claiming that inspired scriptures such as Exodus 24:11 is a lie, you should tell us what is not,and what criteria you used to separate lies from the truth

GooseBaba,
You wanted them to quote chapters and verses which were developed over 1000 years after Christ?

Please eat 6 humble pies

BabaGnoni:
LOL SMH, its now gotten to "... I don't care if they were free styling..."

Luke 4:17-18
The attendant gave him the book of the prophet Isaiah.
He opened it and found the place where it read:
"The Spirit of the Lord is with me. He has anointed me to tell the Good News to the poor.
He has sent me to announce forgiveness to the prisoners of sin and the restoring of sight to the blind,
to forgive those who have been shattered by sin,

That is your wish come true GooseBaba (i.e. we read Jesus in Luke 4:17-18 taking/"grabbing" his copy and quoting Isaiah 61:1)
I hope you all along had a humble pie on stand-by or ready for you to do the honourable thing of eating it GooseBaba?

It's sad that it took atheistic communists to break the back of this late invention into Christianity.

Christians should whine if the country/city applies different standards to other religions

PastorKun,
There is a thread Strange Fire by Winsomex. I wish you participated in it.

I never said you were mocking, and as I said, I would treat any business failure by the church as the. Downside risk of investing. If you don't want to lose your money, open a fixed deposit. But even there, inflation will outstrip the peanuts they pay you.

But you need to appreciate that most of these church business are hubris and not thought out. To rope members in, they claim they are divine,inspired or something. Since nobody wants to miss out on God's vision,they jump in.

Is there an excuse for this epic fail? I can hazard some.

1. God 'broke the camp' because it was time to 'move' to something else

2. 'All things work together for good'. ALL things include those that contradict your core doctrines

3. We look to scriptures and not men for doctrines. But the same gang have no qualms reminding you how he once gave an offering of USD $1M

4. They will deny all that and claim that they are rumours by his detractors. They denied divorce rumors for over 4 years

5. They will remind you of the millions of Rhapsodies Oyaks is distributing per annum in dozens of languages and how many he is reaching and challenge you to do that BEFORE you can comment

6. They will blame a faceless low level manager/pasta for lapse of judgement, separating CE from this PR disaster

One of the reasons MANY church businesses fail is because of the fact that the pastors contribute so little so they tend to have an above average risk appetite or they are plain ignorant of basic business principles.
The other reason is they are based on vanity, to stroke the head pastor's ego, he needs a publishing firm,books,tv station.....

PastorKun:
I am not mocking the business failure per se, it's the fraud of "devourer being rebuked" doctrine that Oyaks regularly preaches that I am trying to point out here. If it was an ordinary church member that was having business challenges, they would say it's because he was not tithing faithfully. The joke is now on oyaks.

PastorKun,
That's funny.
Oral Roberts once claimed to have had a vision of a hospital. The hospital was supposed to be self sustaining and actually defray church expenses. It turned out to be anything but that. It was a black hole that sucked funds from the church! Employees went unpaid,others resigned..finally he threw in the towel and shut the damn thing.

While business failure is not something to mock people with, these church enterprises are usually hyped as God ordained.members actually pay into them. This dishonesty Is my only gripe

PastorKun:
The devourer must be hard at work in this man's businesses. Oya Gombs come and defend your god here.

I thought you were intelligent, how can you fail to see his ignorance about Christ the Savior of the world?

sonOfLucifer:
Oh, we will need him. No better ally than he who knows the enemy well. You still prefer the dark ignorance of your Jewish overlord. May you not die in your misery.

Paste your sources. And I don't speak stupid pidgin

Ubenedictus:
clearly u are blind, did i no ref d libera and d commenary on daniel?

PastorKun:
If Rev Anita can leave the CE cult, your leaving shouldn't be that difficult.

2
(A) Yes
(B) we are not told when

3. Animals and men have one thing in common; they are living. Man is made in the image of God, animals are not.


4. Job 27:3 (ESV)
3 as long as my breath is in me,
and the spirit of God is in my nostrils,

(A) the spirit needs a body but not this corruptible body because that is how God made man. Study 1 Cor 15

(B) question is unclear or ambiguous

(C) no they don't. When Jesus comes back, the dead in Christ will arise and be clothed with spiritual bodies. The living will be transformed. Read 1 Cor 15. This mortal body carries the seed of the spiritual body figuratively. Where does this idea of creating spiritual bodies come from?

(D) very conscious. Luke 16 parable tells you that among others

(E) away from the corpse

dolphinheart:
2. In the footnote I posted the bible says otherwise.

A)Does the spirit have conciousness after it leaves the body?
B)when does this unique spirit enter into a new baby, since u say the spirit is different from that of the parents ?.

3.Sir,how can they be different when the bible and you say thus:
A) God called animals out of water and earth.
B)man/adam was created from earth(dust) and water
C) man and animals are both called souls
D) man have spirit , animals have spirit
E) the spirit in man is same as the spirit in animals.
F) they both have same eventuality.
If any of the aforementioned statement is wrong, let me know.

Pls read the following verses and explain what u understand on it, as ur explanation will help on this discussion.
Psalms 104: 30
Ecclesiastes 3:18-22.

4. Sir, God did not create a body and breathed his spirit into it . The bible says God created Adam/man and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life/spirit/active force. The two are different concepts.
The bible shows that Adam was created first before he became a living soul, that is before he had the breathe of life in him.
This is why God , when passing judgement on Adam , told him what he is,God told adam that he is dust/earth.

Sir , will like to discuss the body being tenth and what John saw under the alter with you, but first pls discuss the questions I posted to u earlier which are:

A)in relation to the second resurrection, if man is spirit, why does he need a spirit body?

B)Remember our discussion is based on the second resurrection. Are they all expecting to be resurrected in spirit bodies too?

C)Do the spiritual bodies need to be created from dust?

D)when man dies, is the spirit conscious after death ?

E)where is mans spirit after death, with God or in hell. ?.


Pls remember, I try to look at the scriptures u cited, I post them and endeavor to give u my own view of the scriptures u posted , before I then go on to explain my own view or points, pls endeavor to do same to my posts .

You may want to join frosbel in in my logic classes. Am a Christian teaching amateur Skeptics what thinking is all about. Then I can put them in the ring all on one side and the word of God on the other and watch you beaten to pulp. My logic lessons basically prolongs your misery

davien:
Lol....look who's talking about skepticism...dogma and skepticism don't go together...so perhaps you should stop your pretense of employing skepticism.

davien,
It is people like you and frosbel who give skepticism a bad name. Skepticism is not shouting 'I disagree' or 'I doubt!', they found their doubts on solid facts not infantile barks. When called out, they suck thumbs,pee in their Pampers and basically blackmail you. These are the real enemies of thinking

davien:
vooks, its people like you that push others away from christianity...when you can't settle biblical issues objectively or even consider another person's findings...but just because someone doesn't think like you do,he's labelled your #1 enemy.

What is there to convince him? That if I dream and then share the contents of the dream with another person that is like so human?

davien:
why is it that you resort to insults when you can't convince someone?

Bidam my 'enemy'
Why would I waste my brains debunking puny brains? I can only toy with him. Merry Christmas my broda

Bidam:
nice one vooks i think you are the antidote to frosbel."looks like he is scared wish anony too is here to answer his illogic

You can't redeem stupidity in questions with intelligent answers. By God's grace I can only teach you how to think and I have done so.

How was Jesus parents and siblings supposed to treat him? Make shrines for him?
How else would you learn of a dream except another man shared it with you?

The saddest but is intelligence is largely fixed. It is congenial. You can turn to Satanism but I doubt Satan is that stupid to have you for a foot soldier. Look at SonofLucifer and marvel at his brilliance.

frosbel:
Stop making a fool of yourself and answer the questions I asked. If you say they are silly and simple then answer them in the most intelligent way possible. At least you will be educating me with knowledge and who knows I may even change my current stance.

If you cannot answer the questions , then stop blabbing all over this thread and keep mute.