₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi:
1 cor 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

We must understand Paul's style of writing and must always link every verse and chapter of his writing cos they all came as one. They were divided in to verses and chapters for easy reading.

Something was present in verse 8 but in 9 Paul never talked about it.

He mentioned LOVE PROPHECIES TONGUES KNOWLEDGE in verse 8. He asserted that love will never fail, so we are left with three things that will cease.

He went on to verse 9 to say we have some things in part- KNOWLEDGE AND PROPHECY excluding tongues.

The two gifts left were knowledge and prophecy though in part. He went on to say-

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When the perfect comes only the gifts we have in part will cease, we don't speak in tongue in part so tongue was certainly done away with.

Perfect in the context used here refer to the complete revelation of God's mind, will and ways in the completed scripture .

shdemidemi:
I will rather present my argument within the confines of scripture. What people do outside scripture is their prerogative, it isn't scripture.

shdemidemi:
Maturity or growth does not mean we will all come to agree the same thing. Maturity of the faith means we have God's mind documented in a book for our collective edification.

The church had no bible like we have it today. There was nothing like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John at the time, people who were gifted at the time speak/prophesy to the church in line with what the Apostle had taught them. Today we have a complete guide, a sure word of prophecy collated and canonized from the works of those who God used as the foundation of christianity.

We are fully grown as a body today because we have the complete Word. Our growth has nothing to do with our individual or sectional volition to follow or not to follow the infallible Word.

shdemidemi:
As far as pedigree is concerned, you can't compare Cessationism to today's trial and error miracle merchants. There are a flurry of situations that warranted miracles after pentecost but the Apostles simply retired and submitted to God's will. Even when prayer was made to God, He directed the Apostle to His grace and mercy which is solely in His hands.

shdemidemi:
Maturity or growth does not mean we will all come to agree the same thing. Maturity of the faith means we have God's mind documented in a book for our collective edification.

The church had no bible like we have it today. There was nothing like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John at the time, people who were gifted at the time speak/prophesy to the church in line with what the Apostle had taught them. Today we have a complete guide, a sure word of prophecy collated and canonized from the works of those who God used as the foundation of christianity.

We are fully grown as a body today because we have the complete Word. Our growth has nothing to do with our individual or sectional volition to follow or not to follow the infallible Word.

shdemidemi:
Maturity or growth does not mean we will all come to agree the same thing. Maturity of the faith means we have God's mind documented in a book for our collective edification.

The church had no bible like we have it today. There was nothing like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John at the time, people who were gifted at the time speak/prophesy to the church in line with what the Apostle had taught them. Today we have a complete guide, a sure word of prophecy collated and canonized from the works of those who God used as the foundation of christianity.

We are fully grown as a body today because we have the complete Word. Our growth has nothing to do with our individual or sectional volition to follow or not to follow the infallible Word.

WinsomeX:
The thread is all about looking at what each participant, each preacher I believe, contributed to the conference. That's what we are already doing.

davidylan:
Acts 4: 34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.

What is nonsensical is your own brand of unbiblical drivel. The book of acts clearly recorded that there was not a single needy person among them... that presupposes including both those who had to give (in various dimensions/levels) and those who could not even give at all. But keep up the man-made charade that are your churches today.

mbaemeka:
Fallacy of reducing facts to your own ill-conceived absurdities. Whatever I was referring to there had to with whatever thing God said would thrive during THEIR generations so I wonder how you reduced it to Jews.

All because you made a totally unbiblical remark that the seal of the Abrahamic covenant (and therefore the covenant itself) was TOTALLY DISMISSED.

mbaemeka:
Your case is pathetic. Is any Christian not perverting Jewish tradition? Did Peter not also pervert Jewish traditions? Haha ha. Tell us if it wasn't Christian Jews that attacked Peter. The most inane remark I have seen on this issue is that 'unsaved Jews' would attack Paul for not circumcising gentiles. People Paul referred to as 'Men from James' in his writ to the Galatians.

I also thought you claimed circumcision was valueless in all ramifications? Did Paul not say it still had value? I thought you said it was dismissed in any form whatsoever? Did Paul agree with you?

As per mishmash, as it pleases you. Any scripture that exposes the flaw in any area of your beliefs is mishmash. It is the usual stock-in-trade of those who cannot learn.

asalimpo:
the only thing done away with in the ol testament are the sacrifces, which Christ has done away with and the traditions which God allowed because of the hardness of d heart of the jews e.g marrying more than one wife, stoning, an eye for an eye, etc.
But the moral injunctions arent done away with.
The ten commandmnt is OT ,is it done away with?
Those actions that were a type of things to come are superseded by christ's wrk in d NT.
E.g in the OT a human priest officiated for man.
Now,we have Jesus as our great High priest
Jesus receives your tithe today,
Hebrews 7:8.

davidylan:
But according to the book of acts, that was what was expected of the church... helping every man according to his need. But of course... what we have now are not churches but religious businesses.

shdemidemi:


You need to meet more people bro, I might be rude but nairaland sure have worse people. I hope you understand I am under no obligation to oblige you?

shdemidemi:
Of course, there is no one with a corner or a formula to make God react. Moreover, I don't think that word anointing was ever used in the whole of the New Testament.

Works is when you say there is something we can do to make God reciprocate. This subtly takes the power from God and places it on man's ability to make things happen.

shdemidemi:
If you agree He has a purpose, you shouldn't have a problem accepting that His purpose is more important than any wishful agenda we might concoct in our mind. It is never about us but about God and His purpose.

shdemidemi:
My dear friend, I wonder what makes you think your prayer will set the child free. Do you yourself get all you pray for?
Jesus raised the dead, Peter did, Paul did, why did you give up after she died, do you some how admit that you can't raise the dead?
Are there things that you still look up to God for, or have you somehow made everything come to life by the words you speak?
Have you tried praying against issues like boko haram?
When you speak of inconsistencies, you need not look far.

nlMediator:
^^^

Your post is an exemplar of the ills of the cessassionist movement that I just talked about - a lack of coherence, magnifying issues to score a cheap point, and inability to help a suffering populace. So, if I successfully pray for a person tormented by demons, that means that person now has a perfect world? A relative of mine died last year or so. I knew she had problems, but I didn't know to what extent. When I called her mother to commisserate with her, she told me her daughter was being tormented by evil spirits. These wicked beings would appear to her and be pursung her (in her dreams, I guess). Mind you, the mother is no WOF or charismatic. She's a plain catholic woman and I can't even say she's born again. Assuming I knew of this girl's condition and went to pray for her and God delivered her, would she or anybody be under the illusion that she'll still deal with the many challenges that human beings face on earth? Like finding a suitable spouse, worrying about pregnancy, raising kids, payng bills, etc.

Like I said earlier, you guys are free to believe what you want. And even free to attribute to charismatics what they do not believe. I'll be moved by your lectures when my neighbor's sheep start sporting horns.

shdemidemi:
Hmm...so you can resort to insults!

I am not ready for your kind of argument bro.

lastmessenger:
You are wasting your time.believe it or not I know what happened and nobody gonna shut me up.

shdemidemi:
If you agree He has a purpose, you shouldn't have a problem accepting that His purpose is more important than any wishful agenda we might concoct in our mind. It is never about us but about God and His purpose.

Image123:
How did he tithe then if tithing is a command?

OLAADEGBU:
Are you under the law to pray?

AlfaSeltzer:
@ op, this is your final warning.
Stop spreading lies against the anointed one of Satan.
Stop calling me evil. Yahweh already confirmed that he is the evil one.
I didn't do you anything but don't think that I won't if you continue your evil lies.

In the name of Satan, ruler of Earth, the King of the world, the Chief of the Serfs, I command the forces of darkness to bestow their infernal power upon me. Save me, Lord Satan, from the treacherous and the violent.

dorox:
Most people pay a tenth of their income to church not out of love for God but because they have been led by their pastor to believe that in doing so, God will continue to protect them from any misfortune. These pastors are effectively selling an insurance policy that covers bankruptcy, sickness, death, broken marriage and a whole bunch of other misfortunes, all for a ten percent premium of ones income.
So contrary to the opinion expressed in some of the comments here, the tithes and offerings paid to these churches are not gifts in an altruistic sense, rather it is the premium paid for the insurance policy provided by God with the church/pastor as God's agent and salesman.
Viewed from this perspective, it becomes easy to see how one can feel cheated if after diligently paying their tithes and offerings, they get hit by one or more misfortune that proved difficult to recover from, and the church which they believed to be the last point of refuge refused to shelter them from the worst of their calamity.
My advice to people that pay tithe as a means of getting protection against the uncertainties of life is that they should put that money into a fixed deposit account, or look for a reputable and trusted insurance company and use that money to purchase a policy that is well tailored to the risk they fear the most.

Image123:
Is prayer a command? Was Abraham commanded to tithe?

sonOfLucifer:
You are an illiterate. You know nothing and strive to know nothing. You are utterly clueless because you have that piece of shit you call the Bible stuck up your empty head. You have sold your freedom for a litre of dead Jew's blood. There can be no greater misery. Run away while knowledge tarries. Do not end up like the fool vooks.

mbaemeka:
Ishmael wasn't Israeli, Abraham wasn't Israeli either. In fact, post a scripture that says the Abrahamic covenant was with Israel. The bible ONLY said God made a covenant with Abraham that he and his seed will receive the promise. The seed in question wasn't Israel. It was Anyone who was to believe in God's son.

As for your question. I have answered them and will do so again: God didn't say those things were to be done forever or throughout ALL generations. He said they would be done thoughout THEIR generations. [/b]He knew what he meant when he said it but they didn't comprehend him. He knew that those ordinances that came WITH THE LAW were only as a schoolmaster till the substance came- Christ.

Now that Christ has come [b]those generations have been put to stop. Christ has come to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant that was before the law. For starters, that Abrahamic covenant was what promised and later produced the savior- Jesus Christ.

mbaemeka:
1. Hogwash. Can't repeat myself.

2. More Hogwash. What would unsaved Jews gain by demanding circumcision from someone who was a believer in something totally antitethical to their own beliefs. This makes no iota of sense. Just stick to the scriptures.

3. Hahahaha really funny bit. At least you won't go anywhere else to assert that circumcision is TOTALLY DISMISSED AGAIN.

PS: you didn't answer ANY of my questions but I understand why. . .

Image123:
Try to stay focused on me and you, or at least the Bible you and i. It is not a must for you to tithe, this is not the first time i am saying that. If you have a problem with that view, find someone else to discuss the tithes with, not me. i have never been under bondage or needed liberty from giving a token 10%. Jesus gave me all the liberty i needed and that settled it for me, no addition. We have purposed in our hearts to tithe. Wash your face and check the passage i quoted again. Pride is a major issue with many of you.

Image123:
i didn't play or joke, i stated facts. Antitithers on NL are infringing on the liberty to give the tithes. Giving out is not bondage to me, especially when it is to the Body of Christ. You have a right to your opinions though, just don't force them on us. The passage i quoted don't say to do ALL the law. This is mischief at work. Please show me/us where this passage was debunked(whatever that means) in my eyes?
There is fraud and abuse everywhere and in every Christian doctrine as it were. We don't throw away the baby with the bathing water. We on this forum try as much as possible to SHOW THE BASIS for tithing. On the other hand, antitithers eternally try to mischievously tie us to all abuses and a force to tithe. Manipulation is wrong, whether to tithe or not to tithe. I give my tithes freewill, remember that.

lanre316:
Obviously he's not. These are symptoms of a psychological disorder known as delusions, that is, seeing things that don't exist and living in a dream world. But it's fun and entertainment show for us, sha.

asalimpo:
abraham gave tithe to melchizedeck, was abraham operating under d law?
There is only one tithe and only one mentioned in d bible ( i stand to b corrected).
No kingdom can survive without resources, thts y all nations on earth impose tax on their citizens.
God's kingdom on earth imposes the tax on its citizens so tht God's work on earth can b accomplished.
Without enuff resources God's work suffers.
The reason for tithe in malaci is so that they mayb "meat in My (God's) House". In other words ,resources for kingdom work.
Besides, like I said, the tithe is God's. Not payng it makes you a robber and a thief.
Lastly, if in d old (inferior) testament, people gave ten percent, how much shud you gladly giv in the new covenant? More thn ten percent.

If you dont giv your tithe with gratitude and thankfully, God will still get His work done. He doesnt need you. And no man can hinder His work from getttng done.
He after all, gave you the money,strenght and breathe to get d money in the first place.

sonOfLucifer:
What do I have to do to get you off my back? Desist from associating my moniker with your ignorance.

Image123:
@chillykelly86 pay attention this time please. Where have i said you are against giving altogether? You have no problem making unfounded inferences from my post but get all heated up when i make inference from the Bible. Hypocrisy. Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing. Can i tithe? Can i call my tithe tithe? Are you in position to hinder people from giving? Can you give to God through the church? Can you persecute God by persecuting the Church? Is the church the body of Christ?
Do i expect you to answer these questions?

lastmessenger:
If there is any one who is an ignorant fool then you are the one.
How do you make claims to things that you do not know and expect people to see you as reasonable?. I know what I experienced and the person that i accused is yet to deny the fact that he attacked me and then you are here to claim I too know.
Get out my face. You are doomed already.

Bidam:
There is no verse that condemns tithing in itself anywhere in the NT, or even in the OT. If God so wanted badly to end tithing in all its forms anywhere in the NT, there definitely would have been clear condemnation of tithing in the teaching of the apostles.

Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT Scriptures for practical giving today. That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of Judaism - no. Rather, in the same way as the apostle Paul drew largely from the Levitical system in the Law of Moses to teach about Christian giving for ministers of the Gospel, so it is in the same manner that many Christians express their giving in the form of tithes in their churches.