₦airaland Forum

1. No sir, witchcraft had nothing to do with governance. It was everybody's role to KILL witches

2. Am glad we are not fighting

3. Prevalence of spiritual gifts is difficult to estimate. You need the ratio of total Christians to Pentecostals throughout the 1980 years of Christendom.There was NO tithing for the first 300-400 years of Christianity. There is extensive documentation of giving and funding ministry over the same period and tithing is not among them. So tithing is not something apostles did and then it died off. No sir. Tithing if at all in the first century was among Jewish Christians just like feasts to the Levites of course. There is no record of no Gentiles tithing to the Levites nor to the apostles. Secular history alone is enough to debunk tithing myth. Add to that the scriptural silence on the same in the face of the many giving exhortation and any tithing argument is stillborn

mbaemeka:
1. That was an aspect of the law that referred to the governance of then Israel. It is similar to going to jail for murder. Even a christian living in grace if he murders would go to jail

2. Is spot on.

3. No, tongues is a good example. Surely, that manifestation of the Holy spirit always existed across all generations of believers but the question is to what level of prevalence? Do you agree that the manifestation of the gift seems more pronounced now than it would have been in say 1000 years ago? That is the same way with Tithes. There were always tithers from the days of Abraham till today. The notion that the message began to spread faster of late is not erroneous neither is the teaching itself. What will be erroneous is the idea that Tithers ceased to exist in totality until recently.

So was circumcision. What do you think between Mosaic and Abrahamic circumcision was the subject of Acts 15 Jerusalem council?

Gombs:
Errrr, are you sure you're not confused? Tithe was existing way before the Torah. Thanks

You usually have disjointed thoughts, hard to impossible to commit such to memory. THink of an untidy room. Where and what were you saying?

Image123:
Ah ah, but when i said this same thing in different words on Malachi, you called it suspended thinking, pretense and being hard of hearing(whatever that means). There is a God oh.

You want to have another go ensnaring us?

What was your point in aksin the questions?

Image123:
Oh Lord, the ping pong answers. I guess the NT is being legalistic as we're not under the law na.

The significance of tithing is not in the 10% but in the enslavement of believers through half-hearted attempts at keeping Torah, the blatant mutilation of scriptures, the dishonesty and the subsequent Pharisaical pride; 'I am not like other men, I give tithes of my all....'

Image123:
Antitithers think tithe is very significant.

1. You just did sir. Witchcraft attracted death penalty and it is not Moses but God who did. You should kill one of the many in Naija or prescribe the same

2. Refer to 1. if there is a global devourer and God rebukes Him for those who tithe, that would only be a benefit if He doesn't rebuke him for the rest. And you said as much, they are on their own. So it is tithe and forget the devourer or watch you eaten up alive

3. People's understanding of what Paul said? That's more palatable. If you possess an understanding PECULIAR to you and nobody else BEFORE you, you basically possess something, a Truth NOBODY else before you EVER did. Regardless, the Spirit in you revealed something He didn't to Christendom for 1900 years. Tongues is a bad example. I just learned that in EVERY generation of believers. there was manifestation of the gifts! Read about that from the book I shared on this thread. Interesting
https://www.nairaland.com/2002518/skeptics-guide-tongues-prophecy

mbaemeka:
1. I didn't place a price for not doing it. God did. He didn't say you are cursed for not doing it in the NT, he said I would do this for those that obey. So if the curse was that antitithers would have been broke in the OT, in the NT they won't be broke for they are not cursed. But the tithers will be blessed for doing it.

Again I didn't mention the scary motive of the devourer to scare any one into giving. I mentioned him to show the givers what blessings they were receiving. There is an astronomical difference between the two.

2. I didn't add the Malachi flipside. Just like the Exodus 20 had a blessing to it the same blessing remained status quo even into the NT. I mentioned Malachi 3 to reference the blessing/promise there.

3. It is not about what Paul missed. I never said he missed anything. But people's understanding of what Paul said can be misplaced and that is a function of those who were responsible for passing out the information. If People in authority in the 16 through 18th centuries believed that Tongue and Tongues were different, don't you think they would be culpable for disseminating the wrong teaching that some presently believe?

They don't. I don't look to what John called unlawful nor what Leviticus says but what Paul,John,Peter et all say; adultery earns you a one-way ticket to hell

Image123:
Unbelievable, i just read this fellow tell me they do not necessarily apply. Well well.

1. They don't apply to Christians
2. You have innumerable injunctions against adultery in the NT and on that basis, you have no right whatsoever to climb on your brother's bed Adulterers and whoremongers God will punish

Image123:
I don't usually respond to rude people just in case you are mostly ignored. I didn't ask for a teaching or opinions, i asked two questions which expect two answers, that's all.
Do you think that scripture above applies to a Christian saved by the blood of Christ today? Or we can go get our brother's wife as we're saved by God? Also i said nothing about inheritances so save your sermons for Sunday service.

1. You have contradicted Pauline and entire NT giving when you place such a price for not doing it. I have explained why. Of ALL the giving verses, none drew the scary motif of the devourer but you can show me if I missed something

2. We have many giving messages in the NT with the conspicuous ABSENCE of the Malachi 'flipside'. You are adding to scriptures by extrapolating Malachi into Christianity

3. When something was introduced is an honest objective test of a doctrine. Regardless of how much you imagine your understanding to be scriptural, you can't possibly beat collective wisdom of the Christians before you who drank of the same Spirit as you. At this point I would like to ask you to give me ONE truth you/Oyaks posses you believe Paul missed yet it is scriptural. Name any

mbaemeka:
1. I am not competing with Paul. He was a Pastor, teacher, prophet, Evangelist and Apostle and I am none of the afore- that much is clear, but he didn't possess singularity of interpretations WRT the scriptures especially when mine do not contradict his- which they don't.

2. Paul quoted Exodus 20 (the very Law itself) in Ephesians 6 when he said we were to honor our parents and he explained the blessing there as he got it from the OT- that you will live long. That's exactly what I have done with Malachi 3. I took that verse from the OT but I also included the blessing from the verse as an addendum. That is scripturally valid. Now if there is a flipside to Exodus 20 there would also be a flipside to Malachi 3 in relation to the blessings. That is, if God said he would rebuke the devourer for your sake then that also means if you don't tithe he won't rebuke the devourer. It is the same way I can say if you do not honor your parents as the bible says then God isn't obliged to keep the blessings for you. That's equally scripturally valid bro.

3. As per when something was "introduced" or not- it doesn't matter. What should matter is if it is true based on the scriptures. The scriptures say Satan is the chief devourer. The scriptures say God can rebuke him on behalf of some people. The same scriptures say the 'some people' are tithers. That's lucid enough don't you think?

Candour just followed your advice ever before you spoke. He'd rather have a good laugh than waste time breaching your mental prison.
And you don't disappoint!

Image123:
See what you're standing on, interesting. Parseived typos. You're deluded on many fronts so i will not worry that you were deluded to guess on my knowledge of the language. Keep on standing, I'm seated.

Image123:
I'd rather banter and have a good laugh than waste the effort.

We know the authors NOT from traditions but from HISTORY. We don't know who was Nero's wife from the epistles but we know from HISTORY. Do you know the difference between tradition and history?

The Bible does not carry ALL available information in the world but it has ALL a true believer needs.

italo:
You're obviously avoiding something.

Anyway...who are the writers of Mark and Luke?

It was nowhere written in the gospels...but the early Church knew by Tradition and passed it down.

The Bible is not all the authority we need.

Watch the video and stick to the subject of the thread otherwise you are spamming

There is time and place to prop fickle Catholicism and this is not it.
One word. Name a single first century tradition not found in the New Testament

italo:
Allow me to ignore you.

I want someone I can reason with, not just someone who wants to out-shout another.

And you can't name ANY tradition Paul communicated to Timothy outside what is recorded in the epistles. Question then is, WHEN did we start collating non-epistle TRADITIONS? First,second third century?

The TRADITIONS theory was invented by catholicism to justify doctrines that are completely strange to scriptures

italo:
You said the Bible is all the authority we need.

That is a lie because Timothy, and by extension, we, need Tradition that isn't written.

My brother, you are under no obligation to divulge nothing

Your church uses Malachi to teach tithing as voluntary giving.
Do they quote Malachi 3:8,9 and 11?

Bidam:
Am i under any obligation to answer frivolous questions? Why the fixation on my church doctrines?

Quote one ORAL TRADITION Paul taught in the first century that is nowhere recorded in his epistles.
If you have none then I have no time for engaging you

italo:
If you want to answer my queries, so that we can reason together and see what is true and what is false, you're welcome.

But if you want to engage in comments that are irrelevant to the discussion, so that you can mask the error in your ways and hold on senselessly to them, then let me know so that I can ignore you.

Thank you my brother,
Your church uses Malachi to teach tithing as voluntary giving.
Do they quote Malachi 3:8,9 and 11?

Bidam:
Yes not only malachi but the whole scriptures in givings.

Make my day

sonOfLucifer:
Can we try out verse 19?

Quote ONE ORAL TRADITION Timothy received from Paul. Whatever was omitted on Pauline epistles was unnecessary for doctrine

italo:
Timothy learned things from Paul through oral tradition too.

Phil 4:9 Keep on doing the things that you have learned and received and heard (not read) and seen (not read) in me, and the God of peace will be with you.

So clearly, the Bible is not all the authority we need.

You're a false teacher.

italo:
Good. I assume you have studied and become selfless enough. So your interpretation is the correct one. Anyone who contradicts you does so because has not studied and become selfless enough, right?

He means if you removed Catholicism shades the Word would illuminate your spirit like you have never seen

Yet it is impossible to name where the Bible says "the Bible is all the authority we need?"

Go figure where it is written ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED

Why can't more books be added to the Bible? Has the Holy Spirit lost the ability to inspire men to write scripture?

Why do we have 39 OT books and not 390?

You're saying the words of Paul are more important than the words of Jesus. Yes or no?

Paul was Inspired by the same Holy Spirit who descended on Jesus. He can't possibly CONTRADICT what Jesus said

You agree that the Church is the Pillar and foundation of truth. It means the Church cannot be devoid of the truth. That's why Jesus gave us the Church, he didn't give us the Bible. You're saying Jesus left us without giving us all the authority we need?

What is the Church? Roman Catholicism?

So it is a lie that the Bible is all the authority we need.

All you need is His Word not empty traditions of men

St. Paul says no.

2Thess2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

Your Christianity is different from that of Paul. You must have got yours from satan. Since the Holy Spirit cannot teach Paul one thing, and teach you another.

Can you quote ONE TRADITION taught by Paul by word and not by letter and give proof of the same practiced in the first century
You are those who twist his words to your damnation

Name books you believe were wrongfully omitted and I will give you credible reasons they were omitted.
But before that, please read the link I shared in depth


Shalom

Unibenstudent:
the subjections were done but there were mistakes eg the book of Enoch was so spiritual yet it was not included

Good my brother.
The 27 books were subjected to the stringest of all tests and were accepted as INSPIRED long before Catholic Church canonized them. So it is wrong to imagine that Roman Catholicism gave us the New Testament. At best, they compiled them together.
Read this;
http://www.bible.ca/canon.htm

Once again, there has been sin and hypocrisy in the church ever since Pentecost. So sin in church has nothing to do with the name Jesus, a name you have no idea when it was coined. Go slow on manmade traditions and learn to question EVERYTHING you are taught. Ask for evidence and do your own research especially on history. History is stubborn

Unibenstudent:
anyway I am studying it,,but I will not fall prey and use d name of Jesus..I fell once and I will never fall again,,,fake pastors who use name of Jesus eg:adulterer chris oyahkhilome,billionaire pastor David oyedepo and Enoch adeboye and cultist Johnson suleiman and occultisyt Lazarus mouka,,by the fruits u shall know them,let's not forget that all Roman Catholics who use also use Jesus are Satanists in disguise..

Bidam:
I am actually getting bored with your unreasonable argument. Read the passage you quoted to me and get back with an answer. So Christ freed you from stealing to go back and steal using Gal 3:10 as a yard stick?

Galatians 3:10 tells you you are CURSED if you don't keep the Law. A non-tither was breaking the Law so they were already cursed

Ever heard of inward circumcision dumb head?

Yes I have. Deuteronomy 10:16,30:6,Jer 4:4. God required both physical and spiritual/inward/heart circumcision out of Physical Israel. Why don't you do BOTH yet you pretend to be spiritual Israel, following your argument?

Give us those laws or quote them.

Read your Bible Sir. Start with Leviticus. I repeat,Levitical Laws were ALL the Laws pertaining to Levi the priesthood tribe

NONE of those books you quote were accepted as inspired by the early church. The 27 books were accepted BEFORE 100AD. That is the difference. History is stubborn my brother

Invest in studying scriptures and not absurd illogical teachings that can't stand scrutiny

Unibenstudent:
did u know what that passage meant let me tell u , it said those who added to scriptures not add to bible,the bible in circulation today is not complete,the council of nicea screened out imporetant scriptures eg the book of Enoch,jubilees ând so many others..please do ur research ,read some scriptures from the dead sea scrolls..the scriptures are much and some are even lost

Malachi is as inspired as the rest of the 65 books my brother.
Do they use Malachi in your church to teach voluntary tithing?

Bidam:
A modern day pharisee with unreasonable questions set to trap me. Is Malachi not a scripture?

When was Jesus name corrupted?
What was his name before corruption?

Spend time on scriptures instead of useless manmade doctrines you don't even understand

Unibenstudent:
Mandela died but the the corrupted name of yeshua which is Jesus did not die that is to say that some principalities and powers are using the name but don't worry ,Yahweh has said that there will come a time where his people will come out from somewhere and call him ,,so I MR chris will use the name Yahweh and yeshua even when I am severely persecuted

Does your church ever use Malachi in teaching the voluntary practice of tithing? A simple Yes/No will do

Bidam:
God bless you useful pastorkun.

Adding to the Scriptures attracts eternal condemnation. AM not judging, just telling you what scriptures says

Unibenstudent:
anyway,nobody has right to pronounce the judgement of hell exceot yeshua so do not judge unless your judgement on the last day is gonna be brutal,,so do not arrogate the seat of judgement to yourself that is blasphemous

Bidam:
How do you read your bible? The specifics are there. Deut 27:26 was the consensus conclusion on the outlined specifics, no addition, no subtraction. The truth is the tithes isn't included on such specifics not even offerings and the widows mite Jesus observed in the Luke gospel.

You don't make sense at all. Use English. Read Galatians 3:10 on the curse

Malachi is a prophecy which some part is yet to be fulfilled. We are the spiritual Israel. What are the consequences of jumping off a cliff?

You are spiritual Israel? then circumcise as well because physical Israel circumcised

This is false, Moses read the whole sacrificial Laws to all and sundry present at that time. I don't know what you mean by levitical and non levitical laws, these are your man made ideologies.

Levitical Laws pertain to Levites and Levites alone. What did I say about brain?

I draw my doctrine from scriptures not from hallucinations and fantasies of men. I may as well dream that Jacob Zuma is antichrist and Mandela the image of the Beast
Demonstrate from scriptures of zip it

Unibenstudent:
yeshua who is all powerful and omnipotent knows that satan is the one hiding behind the name Jesus ,so he is very annoyed ..

You do not make sense at all.
New testament was not written by Paul alone.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter among others ALL wrote in Greek because Greek was the commonest language of the day. And they were not writing to Greeks alone, they wrote to their fellow Jews in Greek.
The Bible is sufficient for ALL DOCTRINES. If you need something else to construct your doctrine, you are deluded and in danger of hellfire

Unibenstudent:
Paul was trying his best to pass the gospel to the Greeks ,so hence he uses Greek,,but the kyrious is the name the Greek calll God even before spiritual intervention of Paul..those with close contact with Paul would have heard him say Yahweh and yeshua,remember the bible is too small to contain the life and times of the men of Yahweh!!!!!b!!

Does your church ever use Malachi in teaching the voluntary practice of tithing? A simple Yes/No will do

Bidam:
My thoughts on Mlachi is on this thread if you care to read them.

You need to brush up on your history. Ignorance is very expensive.

A simple exercise.
1. When was the name Jesus FIRST used? Give a definite date/century/year and PROOF
2. What name was used for Jesus before? Give evidence for this and don't regurgitate your church manuals

Unibenstudent:
Constantine the pagan king who joined mithraism to Christianity to form Roman catholicism ,we all agree that all modern churches have their root in Roman catholicism,,Constantine told people in Rome to figure out the name of the god that Romans should use ,because Rome at that time had so many gods and it was causing confusion ,so after much delibration ,hesus was combined with Julius ceaser to form Jesus ..that gave birth to the name Jesus,,,that is the anti Christ name..and with that name Roman Catholics murdered many people and sin rose further and further