₦airaland Forum

Bidam:
Romans 2:14 says that Gentiles who do not have the Law can do by nature the things contained in the Law; and Romans 3:29 affirms that God is also the God of the Gentiles and not only of the Jews.

Image123:
Leviticus 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's unclothedness; they shall be childless.
Mark 6:18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

Do you think that scripture above applies to a Christian saved by the blood of Christ today? Or we can go get our brother's wife as we're saved by God?

Image123:
OH shut up already and present the many tithe threads where antitithers and non tithers were cursed.

mbaemeka:
Deuteronomy 25:4 KJV

Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

This audience too was Jewish, living in the middle east as well. But they would have been amiss to insist that Moses ONLY referred to literal oxes because in 1 Timothy 5:18 and 1 Corinthians 9:9 Paul used that OT verse to refer to ministers of the gospel and how they should be allowed to make their living from the gospel. The same Paul used Abraham's maid and wife to teach about the Law and Grace. Which means the instance of sending the bondwoman away for the freewoman to have her say wasn't just what it was on the surface. It was allegorical of something spiritual, same with Devourers as used in Malachi 3.

Christ has redeemed us from receiving the blessings by conformance to the "laws". Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law. We can therefore take the blessings and run with it. That's what Paul taught Timothy and others.

WHY WE GIVE OUR FIRST FRUITS? (THE BENEFITS)
We are commanded to give it [Prov 3: 9-10, Ex 22: 29]..........
Anyone who holds back his First Fruit exposes himself to evil. As God said to Israel. [Jeremiah 2: 3]

mbaemeka:
First of all, it might interest some of you to know that Reverend Chris didn't always believe in tithing. As the first son in the line of many pastors across generations he gave tithes in obedience to the teachings he received in AG but when he became a Pastor himself in the late 70s and early 80s he taught members of his then church on the out-datedness of tithing. He believed it had been done away with by the ushering in of the NT and he taught so to all and sundry. He also taught on the fear factor that he was sold on while in AG into tithing. The Pastors always made references to curses for not doing so and he responded to such fear. Subsequently, as he began to study further by the instructions of the Holy Spirit he saw the importance and scriptural basis behind tithing and he has taught so ever since to tremendous results.

Now I said all that to say this: it is not impossible that at the earliest stages of his teaching on these things maybe he still infused a part of the fear factor that he got from his time in AG. I am saying this because the link referred to audios and tapes which means this had to be a long time ago. I can say without flinching that I have never heard him relate non-tithers to any curse neither have I seen him teach such in the last 15 years. So it is very possible that the folks who decided to re teach the issues on Facebook used old tapes or maybe they just infused their own ideas into it.

But just like he said one who doesn't tithe is setting up the persons self for financial strangulation and that is not a curse. That is just explaining the consequences of someone's actions or inactions to them. For example, when God told Adam that if he ate from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil he will surely die. God wasn't placing a curse on Adam. He was simply showing him the consequences of his disobedience. In the real sense what God did to Adam was a form of tithes because he allowed him to eat from every other Tree but he instructed him to leave that Tree untouched and Adam disobliged and faced the consequences.

It is the same way God told the Israelites to use the blood of a lamb to mark the doorposts and lintels so that the destroyer will passover them. Sure, the children of Israel were God's people and he was trying to protect them. But if anyone of them had mistakenly forgotten to mark his doorposts with the blood of the lamb, he would have lost his first child and God would not have been to blame as he had already told them what to do to negate the effects of the destroyer. God placed no curse on anyone of them.

If I say to my child make sure you look closely before crossing the road or else you would be knock down by a vehicle I am only giving instructions with the adjoining consequences of flouting such instructions. I am not placing a curse on my child. We all have agreed from the scriptures that we live in a fallen world that is being run by the devil whose sole aim is to kill, steal and DESTROY. Now Satan wants to destroy the whole of mankind but even more so us christians because we have opted to follow the very way that he wants nobody to follow. This destroyer is similar to the one who went about the camp slaying the firstborn of the Egyptians. Remember, he didn't go there to destroy just them, he wanted to destroy all but the blood was the security policy for the initiated. That is the same way tithes is a financial security policy for us christians. When we give it, we give God the leeway to protect our finances for us. Those who do not give it are only saying they can manage their finances themselves and they are allowed that. The problem is when that destroyer comes to their doorposts, God will not be able to rebuke him on their behalf and the reason is simple: because they told him they can do it on their own. So I am not amiss if I say such a person is setting up himself for financial strangulation and I am not placing a curse on him.

As per the firstfruits, I will have to do more investigations to be certain Rev Chris said "God will take it from you it you do not give". I have never heard him say so. My understanding of the principle of firstfruits is on this thread and it is all in relation to my putting God first. I have never seen it as something I had to do nullify any curse of any sort as what anyone calls firstfruits can be subjective even from the bible. I have a Pastor friend who gave his first year (not month but year) salary as his firstfruits. I never did so and I have never heard him teach so as a doctrine of any sort. I actually cringed to see that statement on that Facebook post and I will do well to investigate it thoroughly to be certain that those words were used. I however strongly believe that it is not the case.

Sorry for my epistle. I might make corrections if need be.

Back to hibernating.

frosbel:
Issue 1 : Prayer

When Jesus prayed, he always found a quiet place and withdrew himself. He also admonished us to do similar.

"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you." - Matthew 6 : 5-6

Nigerian Christians like to make long prayers in a church setting to establish themselves as prayer warriors even though their requests and prayers can be heard by people around. Is this not blatant hypocrisy ?


Issue 2 : Prayer

"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words." - Matthew 6:7

Let's be honest, is this not something we are used to seeing and hearing in churches, people praying with meaningless repititions as if God is deaf. They think the more they speak and the longer they pray , the more God hears and blesses them. They will do well to heed this scripture ;
"Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes 5:2

Issue 3 : Money giving

why do people have to pay tithe and offerings in the open where there are thousands of people present. Is this not showing off ? Also, does this method not humiliate those who cannot afford to pay ? God says we should donate money in secret not in public. Again , these churches confirm that they will not obey scripture.

"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you" - Matthew 6:2-3


Issue 4 : Healing

When Jesus healed people, he always tried to do it in secret or in such a way that he himself will not be magnified but his father. Today we see many so called men of God organising open 'concert like crusades' to show off their healing skills while drawing disciples to themselves. Surely this is against biblical admonition.

"And his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue was removed, and he began speaking plainly. 36And He gave them orders not to tell anyone; but the more He ordered them, the more widely they continued to proclaim it. " - Mark 7:36

Issue 5 : Work

Paul says anyone who does not work should not eat. Why are so many pastors eating without working ??

"Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: "Those unwilling to work will not get to eat." - 2 Thessalonians 3:10


Issue 6 : Leadership

The bibllical model of leadership is that we are all brothers with one master Jesus. Also, him who is first shall consider himself last not first. Why then do we have many mere men ruling the church with an iron hand and lording it over the sheep ?

"But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers." - Matthew 23:8

Issue 7 : Titles

In the bible the apostles did not go by titles but names, so where did this craze for titles come from ??

"they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called 'Rabbi' by others." - Matthew 23:7

Marchman:
Wow, the expose by SirJohn is the best thread ever for me from Nairaland. It is the most interesting, and reminded me once again why I love coming to this forum in spite of the many things begging for my attention. SirJohn deserves to be paid the money Bro Joagbaje promised. It is a matter of integrity. The so-called miracle has been proven to be fake, with no proof to back it. Please pay Sirjohn.

Then it also demonstrates why we should be careful not to boast about our spiritual abilities. Miracles happen by the grace of God not by the spiritual might of the preacher. When it does not, we cannot force it or blame the people needing miracles for lacking faith. This reminds me of sometime in 2004 when my youngest brother was sick of cancer. After chemo and other radiation treatments failed to cure him, we took him to the healing School of Christ Embassy in Lagos.

I noticed that they were more willing to record us on video than provide succour. After many visits, my bro died as he didn't get any better. But to my surprise, my Word of Faith friends blamed us for his death. it was either we lor my late brother lacked faith. Or that we were not financially committed members of the church. Not once did they agree that may be that's how God wanted it to happen. Or that sometimes we don't understand all of God's ways. No, they insisted that the Word works ALL the time and if it didn't work for us, it was our fault. Not the Pastor's or God's. It was very painful to bear the brunt of Word of Faith people, after doing everything imaginable to save your brother and losing him. I hope this teaches Joagbaje and his ilk a lesson - that their knowledge of the spiritual is very small and that they should be humble - like Jesus was - and not to be boastful like the world. I hope it teaches them too compassion for sick people who dont buy into their miracle cure thing. Best of Luck. ManoftheYear:SirJohn!

mbaemeka:
I would like to get a few things out of the way before I hibernate again.

1. CE does not teach that if you don't give your tithe or firstfruits sicknesses or diseases will come upon you. I have never heard it taught in any service by the most senior Pastor. So that goes for all the mentions WRT that.

2. Someone could begin a group on Facebook and attempt to rehash everything the Pastor said on a teaching. It doesn't mean the person will do so perfectly. We are all guilty of sometimes superimposing our own thoughts into any message we listen to. That's why Jesus said "be careful how you hear". Some people heard him talk about his body and they concluded that he encouraged cannibalism so they abandoned him. Even on this thread we have seen 2 people from the same 'Church' argue about their understanding of the same teaching by one Pastor. It is all a function of one's ability to listen and then understand.

3. Image asked for a thread where the supposed Tithers of NL invoked curses or called cursed those in the ilk of antitithers. It doesn't relate to importing links from Pastors who made such teachings outside NL. Notwithstanding, I have seen the links and I will give my own interpretations and position on the issues raised. Let me also add at this juncture that I saw no curses from any of the said Pastors. But I will delve further just to ensure I am not defending the indefensible.

shdemidemi:
May be when I stop acknowledging your post your arrogant conduct will be appropriately shaped. Go and do what you have been asked to do my dear friend and we can move forward from there.

shdemidemi:
No bro, I won't. Take off the chip on your shoulders by answering my questions, only then shall we have a reason to parley like adults and more importantly like christians.

shdemidemi:
When you are ready to discuss as one who is sensible, trust me to oblige.

shdemidemi:
You remind me of an old Mba Emeka. To the man's credit he has changed his approach of presenting his ideas of the gospel. You are taken this whole 'me, myself and I' gratification to a level lucifer himself will covet and aspire. When you are ready come with the book and discuss, not before you answer my pending questions though.

shdemidemi:
lol... When he is ready we can discuss the book but if he prefers his present 'saul' approach I have nothing to say about the issue of tongues. You are also well known for your pungent dishonesty so I am not ready to go into the topic with you either.

You remain my virtual boss all the same

shdemidemi:
Hahahaha.. Guess you are still hurt, I know truth hurts bro. You are probably finding it difficult to accept the truth, take it out on the book pal.

When you are ready to face your fears of hearing more of God's word concerning tongues and unknown tongues, you will go answer my pending questions on your thread.

Candour:
Phew...to think that some people were so sure you were alternate monikers of the same person

Vooks, pls calm down. I believe we can disagree without being disagreeable. You're 2 of the most interesting folks I enjoy reading here and it grieves me to see you guys go at each other like this.

Chill pls

GreyBeard:
Let me be very clear. I have no interest in launching attacks against any particular church or any particular man of God however I have no doubt that some zealots may consider this post as such,  Be that as it may, what I am seeking to understand is the system that Rhapsody of Realities (ROR) operates in and I am willing to stand corrected if the information I have been given is wrong.

Now here is my perception of what happens in the ROR world from my conversations with some committed Christ Embassy members:

(1) RORs are written by Psts Chris and Anita monthly
(2) RORs are published/printed
(3) Each ROR is paid for in cash by church members
(4) The church members who bought them distribute them for free.

Now what is wrong with this picture? Well lets break it down further:

Each month, the actual printing of the RORs are paid for by the church. The church gets its money from its members in the form of offers, tithes etc. So in other words, the church members collectively pay for printing this material.
The newly printed RORs are now sold back to the same members for more of their cash. The justification for this is that printing isn't free. But its been paid for already by the church using money given to it by the members. So in other words, the church members are paying for the RORs TWICE - before giving it out for free.

But that's not all,

One of the church members I spoke to insisted that Pastor Chris himself owns the publishing company that the church pays to publish and print the ROR. If this is true (and I hope it's not) then it means that he will be making a personal profit on each copy of ROR sold. Also, Psts Chris and Anita are the sole authors so they will by law personally own all royalties and other authoring rights of the ROR into perpetuity.

So if we put this all together what we get is Psts Chris and Anita authoring and publishing material which they (strongly) encourage their church members to pay for TWICE (once indirectly in tithes, offerings etc and once directly to the publishers - Psts Chris & Anita themselves) before any one sees it for free.

Now to me, if it looks like a scam and it smells like a scam, then what is it. . . ?

shdemidemi:
@Trustman

I have a little gripe for your request to Gombs. The man has clearly proved he will remain dishonest, yet you seek for an honest response from him. When exactly are we going to accept Gombs for who he is?

shdemidemi:
Seem to me like you come to nairaland for a challenge or a show of ability to impose ideas.

I advise you read through properly to understand and not read to object; you might end up missing cogent points that might be beneficiary to your walk with God because you will always be about your next point. I have not said anyone wants a bad marriage, all I say is- look for God, when you find God, all the other distractions (the bible call them 'things') will be perfected by God.

You should not put the horse before the cart by using God as a means to get a good marriage or any other thing for that matter.

shdemidemi:
Noooo... He did not die so you can have a bad marriage either. All I am saying is this- Look for God, and all things (and if it includes a good marriage it) shall be added unto you.

The mistake anyone will make is to go to God because he/she want a good marriage. Look for God first, He will put every other thing in place by divine logistics.

dorox:
Where are the "touch not my anointed" crowd? This pastor is no different from Daddy G.O Adeboye and company, his only "guilt" is to lack finesse and to allow himself to be caught in his scam.

Candour:
There are some here I don't bother with anymore. Its simply not worth it. If necessary, they'll deny their gender if it'll help their case.

Image isn't CE. He actually believes they're not shamefaced enough. He told nannymcphee that. He also believes a woman commits sin by wearing any kind of trousers because of Deut 22:5 and you know you can't divorce a CE babe (be it pastor, choir, everyone of them) from her trousers. Its primarily the money that ties image and CE together. I doubt he'll be comfortable sitting in a building surrounded by CE members because if female trousers rub him the wrong way, what will he do with the make-ups and mini skirts? He was even trying to tell oyaks to behave better on one of those divorce threads. I smiled when I saw it.

Candour:
They've been lying that they don't issue curses on non tithers. They've been lying they don't preach tithe from Malachi 3. That's why I didn't bother disturbing myself proving anything to others but Gombs if he hadn't capitulated. I knew he wouldn't keep the lie for long when confronted with hard evidence my friend has only become more aggressive about it

This is the tactical distancing on display before our very eyes. Tithing by faith my foot.

As for first fruits, non compliance means HIV straight. Even image123 is in danger be that

Candour:
My friend has gone through his past posts and seen that he can't deny he has himself used or seen Malachi 3 used against non tithers on NL some few times he has also discovered that oyaks his idol also knows how to put prophet Malachi to dangerous use. Its baffling that he was able to type longer posts at IPPC but had to wait till he gets to his hotel to type a 6 word post. He has discovered he can't hide anymore so the next thing is to become brazen about it

No my friend, i don't rob God.

Candour:
Now, how is it my fault that oyaks, adeboye etc have refused to upgrade to tithing by faith? Inspite of what Hagin wrote? Obviously Hagin had both in mind when he composed chapter 6 of his book

- How can you say that you are doing the word of God and be eating your tithes? Until and unless you tithe, you are programming yourself for financial strangulation. Until you choose to do the word of God you are programming yourself for financial trouble. It is not God’s way off maintaining his kingdom, it is his security system. Remember that God will always have people to do his work.

WHY WE GIVE OUR FIRST FRUITS? (THE BENEFITS)
We are commanded to give it [Prov 3: 9-10, Ex 22: 29] By giving your first fruit, you secure and sanctify the rest of your fruits ( Rom 11: 16) We give our first fruits that the blessing of God may rest upon us ( Eze 44:30) By giving it, you demonstrate your appreciation for God and the things He has done in your life (Deut 26:10 – 11) It releases the anointing upon your life. The bible says thy presses shall burst out with new wine. New wine symbolizes the anointing ( Prov 3:9) God is delighted in our obedience to His word; for it is better to obey than to sacrifice [I Sam 15: 22] If you don’t give your first fruit, God will go after it because it belongs to Him ( Ex 4: 22 – 23) Anyone who holds back his First Fruit exposes himself to evil. As God said to Israel. [Jeremiah 2: 3]....

WAYS OF GIVING FIRST FRUITS
1. New Job: First salary package
2. New Year: First salary or first income ( for those who don’t earn a salary)
3. Old Job (Promotions) – Increase i.e. the difference between the old and new salary. (If your heart condemns you go ahead and give all. He is looking for something to multiply back to you).

Candour:
Would you also tell the dumb lie that you've NEVER come across a thread on NL where tithe proponents used Malachi 3 against non tithers? Would you also join the group lying that they're yet to see a pastor use Malachi 3 against non tithers? Would you also lie that you've never used the negatives in Malachi 3 against non tithers?

Would you my friend Gombs?

sonOfLucifer:
The hosts of hell and demons rejoice. For they chose darkness and confusion over light and freedom.

Image123:
Don't be your perfidious usual self for once. Here i was trying to help your ignorance. Now read my quote like your school fees were fully paid for.