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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: argument to absurdity), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial,[1] or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance. For example, "if A then both B and not-B, so not-A" and "if not-A then both B and not-B, so A".[2] First recognized and studied in classical Greek philosophy (the Latin term derives from the Greek "εις άτοπον απαγωγή" or eis atopon apagoge, "reduction to the impossible", for example in Aristotle's Prior Analytics),[1] this technique has been used throughout history in both formal mathematical and philosophical reasoning, as well as informal debate.

Gombs:
Arrêtez d'être stupide et répondre à ma question. Merci

The word Bible is not found in the Bible except ON its cover

Bidam:
Reductio ad absurdum, looked it up not in my bible.

Reductio ad absurdum
look that up and then look for me

Bidam:
Did Melchizedek the High Priest as a type of Christ receives animal sacrifice,circumcision and sabbath?

This man has the numbers.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/monday/Prophet_Owour_110813.jpg
https://www.hekaheka.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/DNEldOwuor1904a.jpg

Here is one clip he claims that 'shekinah' fell from heaven. Rainbows are shekinah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVH58_op8Hk

Goshen360:
These people think everyone is foolish as they are.

You want to look up Reductio ad absurdum

Gombs:
I rephrase, why should a Christian be encouraged to stop tithing? You've brought up the circumcision, , well younsaid it's been anulled, no wahala then.

I like the mutating defense. So now it is down to 'force'

Why should a Christian be forced to stop offering Freewill animal sacrifices,circumcising or keeping Sabbath?

Gombs:
Oh! We demand none. You could not admit being wrong in biblical exercises, we don't expect apologies for attacking our liberty to tithe. Like I asked Trustman, a question he may still be ruminating on, why should a Christian be forced ro stop tithing? Can you answer in plain terms?

Numbers and Miracles mean NOTHING for these reasons;
1. False religions can also boast of numbers and signs

2. MAJORITY of those turning to Christ are not drawn by the miraculous. I was not drawn by the miraculous

3. If numbers and signs vindicate a minister of the true gospel, then the converse is true; small numbers and NO signs are marks of a false gospel.

4. Signs and wonders do not necessarily turn people to Christ. Read Matthew 11:20-24

5. Paul was wearied by chronic sign seekers at the expense of the Word 1 Cor 1:22

6. The growth recorded in Acts was the ENTIRE church. Now it is sectarian, Oyaks vs Oyedepo vs Adefarsin.

Once again, why are numbers thrown at us? It was a noble thing for Bereans to examine if what Paul said was so. Now it is envying unmatched record.

mbaemeka:
Mr A said God called him into ministry. Mr B said it wasn't true, that he was called by God almighty into ministry and not Mr A. Mr A then said if God truly called you he would back you up with the necessary credentials that he usually backs those he sent and since you do not have any of the signs we can conclude that you were not sent- you simply went. Mr B began quoting "false signs and false prophets shall appear..."

Question, what is Mr B's talk if not a cheap excuse?

Let me tell you why the numbers are important sometimes; it is because if the message being preached by CEC or WOF as a whole attracted only a few people the critics would not care. They would say "he is preaching a false gospel that's why nobody is listening to him". But now that the message is being heard by the world over it becomes frustrating to the traducers. I can give you a real time example. In my own branch of CEC in Nigeria we had just about 29 members on a Sunday service. This was like 10-12 years ago. There were a couple of good churches around us at the time and the least of them had close to 400 members on a typical Sunday.

Every now and then some of the leaders of those churches will visit the Pastor of my church and advice her to stop wearing trousers. Some told her it was an instruction from the lord while others were honest enough to say they were simply passing a piece of advice. The pieces of advice seemed to range from one of this four things: a) you let women wear makeup and this pisses people off who want to come to church b) you focus too much on feel good messages and you neglect the aspects of sin and the end time c) they are always advertising miracles and hero-worshiping the Pastor d) they are always talking about money money and giving giving etc.

My Pastor always thanked them politely for their counsel but she continued to minister complete doses of the whole counsel of the word as Paul (by the Holy spirit) admonished us to.

Few Years passed (and as I type this), we are the largest word church in my vicinity. It was now I began to understand that God doesn't need many members to do any work that he wants. What he asked us to do in the NT, is to obtain grace for the task ahead and that is what we have been doing. There was a time the Pastor announced that we had imminent plans of increasing capacity to accommodate new members and renovate the building. Just a rough estimate of what was required and people began speaking in tongues. One who is Carnally minded would begin to say "if everybody gives so so amount we might get half of the total required" but that is man's way of thinking and not God's. One brother stepped up and dropped a cheque and it was the total amount. Those of us who have spiritual sensors and know that the things of God aren't about 'contributions' didn't let him get blessed alone- We still gave as though it depended on us- each one as he had purposed in his heart. If I begin to mention all the financial testimonies we reaped I would be accused of boasting.

Anyways, our beloved brothers in christ that stayed around us began to change their talk. We started hearing that we were 'sinners playing church'. Some others called us a fellowship of sinners whose success was as a result of the same things they claimed was millitating us in timepast. The big cars that parked around the church became loot from tithes and firstfruits. The large crowd to them was elicited by miracle adverts and feel good messages and the renovations were from contributions from the gullible sheeple.

You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Now the standard of being a true gospeler is in being scandal-free. Jesus' words that there would be no woe to false prophets have been conveniently swept under the rug. Now that people are being added to the church it has become "narrow is the way". When your gospel attracts no one at the start, you are false. When it attracts people later you are false. When they see no one healed they say 'no one gets healed it is fake'. When they see people get healed they say 'too many people get healed it is fake'. If they ask you about yourself and you say don't focus on me, focus on Jesus that I am presenting to you they will say he is too secretive he has something to hide. If you tell them about yourself they will say you are taking the glory for yourself and giving none to God.

Jesus said they complained about his own friends, dressing and feeding habits and in turn complained about a polar opposite- John the Baptist's as well. They want you to dance when they dance and cry when they cry. They know everything that is wrong with the church but will not offer what is right. They will not lift a pin but will give men heavy loads to carry. Everyone is right or wrong based on their own little standard. There is nothing new my dear. Absolutely nothing new.

One of his epic fails:
He predicts an earthquake in France with the climax being Eiffel Tower coming down. Claims it was fulfilled in the Japan Fukushima earthquake and the nuclear plant disaster
The Prophecies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K5zGhlX2q4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vBU-usp3oM

The 'Fulfillment'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNBb-MDlQ0

If they can't cast out demons by the power of God, by whom do they cast them out? Your demon will be appeased and in exchange you will give up more of your self. But then again, you really look forward to it

lastchild:
the people am talking about is not people that'll take me to native doctor,its people who has been through it and therefore let me know how to go about it

How much premium is placed on the best givers?

You need to man up and drop the addiction to pity. After your high you will be back here for another round. You will have to be more daring next time to excite

frustratedman:
I think I need a job

Sarcasm it was my broda

Topgainer:
I don't think the lady is being unruly. Can't you see the injury on her? She has become a useless detractor because she has decided to cry out.

In terms of accomplishments, you should have said Reverend Chris Oyakhilome can never match the business acumen and bible twisting prowess of Mr. Satan Devil though Rev Chris is allowed ten lifetime to continue breeding and ordaining thugs

That's superstition. Any proof?

PastorKun:
Hypnotic powers taught and practised by eastern cult religions.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY STRANGE?

frosbel:
Christ Embassy cult followers remind me of fanatical Muslims who live in denial !

The truth is that there is nothing about Christ in Christ Embassy, it is a business venture led by one man who uses strange powers and control to hold his gullible and sometimes foolish followers in a stupor-like state.

I believe this story like the many others where this same church has been involved in fraud, violence and all manner of sexual immorality.

Come out of her people.

Ever been around guys addicted to pity?
Pity makes them feel loved and cared for

Elxandre:
You are very harsh mister, but you are right, sympathy changes nothing.
I hate people showing me sympathy sometimes, because they don't even have a clue how messed up your psyche, goals, ambitions, hope is most times.

Regardless of the circumstances, it is conduct unbecoming male primates to descend on a female primate. This hesitation to assault women is exploited to the max by drama queens; they will hurl insults and even attempt to fight you not because they believe they have a fair chance of beating you but because they don't expect you to hit back.

It is quite probable that she caused a scene and unfortunately we only know her side of the story

Proverbs 18:17 American Standard Version (ASV)
17 He that pleadeth his cause first seemeth just; But his neighbor cometh and searcheth him out.

The other thing is ALWAYS put every contract on paper regardless of your customer. Don't spare your own mother....unless of course you base the agreement on trust in which case, resorting to courts is a risk you forfeited

If churches keep tithing records which are not legally binding, you should make and keep the legally binding business contracts with them

adahib:
Hahaha... Grace to molest married women? I no fit laugh

Been there done that and I know having crowds pitying you simultaneously is no solution to nothing

OK, you are dying in the next 1 hour. What do you want? Us watching you die? Will our sorrow change your state?

frustratedman:
When you experience frustrations and compounded disappointments you will know what I'm facing

This is a sick joke, you are seeking attention, sympathy or empathy for your state. How does this help you?
Let me assure you you will be gone and nobody will remember your moniker the next second

You are wasting precious bandwidth and server memory ranting here. DO everybody a favor, record your suicide and have somebody upload it to youtube. You will be a hero

frustratedman:
I am seriouly considering suicide once again. I think I will have to take this bold step once and for all instead of facing all these problems and challenges. God has been wicked and so harsh to me. I have waited for over 2 months for his intervention but things keeps getting worse. I will kill myself and end this life of misery. I already made arrangements this morning and it won't take long before my story hit the news. I have lost hope and all I had. I give up on life, and God. I will die with my frustrations

Can I propose the least painful way for checking out?

Your prescriptions?

Bidam:
Go back and tell your conscience all the gibberish you have written so far whether they are attacks or not. I don't have time to start quoting your bigotry.

Who is attacking what?

Bidam:
Go back and tell your conscience all the gibberish you have written so far whether they are attacks or not. I don't have time to start quoting your bigotry.

Somebody said that?
That is a bit offensive. I have disagreed on CEC goD theory,tithes and first fruits and other manipulation but can one really show a church that is free of doctrinal error?

But then again, GOmbs is the one calling some people here sewer rats

Gombs:
Ah! CE don't preach Christ, they are just brood or vipers, wolves in sheep clothing, and they shall all go to hell.

Bro, good morning jare.

I can't possibly respond to unstructured gibberish my brother. Am sorry
Who is attacking CEC?

Bidam:
The attacks on CEC is unwarranted and uncalled for, are they preaching Christ? Yes or No? Do well to attend to my questions posed earlier or shift elsewhere.

I will respond to you as soon as you compose your thoughts and pose a coherent question. Thanks

Bidam:
Candour's argument is more of a pre-ressurection one not a post-ressurection one. Jesus cannot be everywhere at the same time.Why was the Holy Spirit given? The Holy Spirit is a seal and guarantee for the eternal security of the believer irrespective of whether he is carnal like the corinthians, God calls them His children. The book of Acts shows alot of examples of Thousands of believers that were added daily to the church. Or are you telling us the 3000 that were saved in one day is the narrow way? Are they heading for the broadway according to your reasonings?

And?

phinix:
[size=4pt]@last child: hi there friend. I just went through your diary and believe me I read through the whole thing not because I had nothing doing but because I know if you will listen to me then you will be liberated. Now I want u to understand that I believe every word u have said because I happen to have passed through something even worse than where u are presently, I will like u to pay close attention to what am about to tell you as this might be the only way out of this. A brief introduction about my self and my own testimony. I actually come from a riverine community in Ondo state where the worship of water spirit is common but I grew up in Lagos I had never been to my village until 2009 when I lost my dad. That was when I got the full story of my ancestry. My great grandfather was a renowned fisherman, one day on his routine fishing trip he got to a secluded part of the river and behold he saw a floating box u know those olden days trunk boxes..yeah that's the one, he pulled it out of the water and opened it, guess what? Assorted ornaments which back in their day amounted to serious wealth, so he built an altar for this spirit that gave him this wealth and did regular sacrifices and incarnations eventually one of his sons(my grandfather) became a Christian and when his father died he exsumed his grave, destroyed the alter and burried everything with his father and then it all began...strange sicknesses,insanity,abject poverty and sudden deaths became d order of the day, all these things actually meant nothing to me until it came upon my own immediate family, I lost my kid brother to a strange kidney disease, lost my dad after a very br :oief illness, lost my mom 3 days after my dad was buried in 2009 and then 2013 it was my turn ..from my own experience with what I went through I could say the entire host of hell came up against me...in your dreams u eat and have sex..let me enlighten u on my own dreams ..Fighting with giants, fighting with faceless demons, standing on a queue where people are being grinded to powder and blood, having sex,...these where on a constant basis then the physical symptoms inability to function, severe body pains, strange movement from base of spine to the brain, rapid loss of body weight,loss of body hair, poor cognitive function..the mental symptoms: severe depression, anxiety, fear,hallucinations., those were the ones I could remember. My company took care of the medical expenses but it grew worse, I was later referred to a shrink but it was only getting worse so I tried trado medical it was same and after complaining to friends just as u are doing, a friend recommended mountain of fire, another OPM, yet another SCOAN infact every body I see on the road I tell my problem but there was no solution after consuming large quantities of holy water and anointing oil it only got worse so neighbour introduced me to one spiritualist in a remote part of IMO state after telling me about some miracles that the guy did on his own sister who had been sick for many years which was beyond medical ability, I decided to give it a try and as you know from your own experience the result was a failure. So after exhausting all my options, I decided to give this one last shot, this is where I want u to listen up I looked up your diary but I did not see any. Where u did what am about to tell u. I got fed up and I started Asking questions but this time i began to ask the only person that has the answers do not be decieved that there's one special person out there that will just lay his hands on you and u get your long awaited miracle.[/size] I will stop typing for now because am tired but if I get a Confirmation from you that you get my point and you are interested in me continuing then I will do so if not there's no point in taking pains to compose this just for u.

These are useless detractors who can never in ten lifetimes accomplish a tenth of what Reverend Chris has accomplished

nlMediator's point is, pulling more crowds even if only a few come to Christ is more Jesus-esque than pulling smaller crowds out of which even fewer come to Christ. The question is, WHY do these numbers arguments come up when examining doctrine? Why is he and Gombs wont in reminding us of CE size? Somebody reminded another that he would NEVER match Oyaks works in three lifetimes.

Numbers it appears is a major motivating factor. This argument vindicating Oyaks from his numbers must be part of the pep talks they regularly get. It is a sales pitch no different from MLM talks. Oyaks MUST be of God seeing all the languages into which he translates and distributes millions of Rhapsodies. He has over 1,000 branches in India...glooooooooory

The other is to paint critics as envious. You little pricks are just envious of 'levels' you will never attain

Candour:
@the first bolded, who owns the church? the man or God? to whose glory is the size of the church? the man or God? Is the man after adding to the body of Christ or interested in smashing the record books for most prolific crowd puller? We have plenty crowd pullers in 'christiandom' who are simply dispensing poison on a massive scale and reaping handsomely in the process.

@2nd bolded, pls attack the man with the blog as much as you like, it makes no difference to me. You'll never find me make a defense for it just as you'll never find me make a defense for any denomination. There are thousands of blogs jostling for space and attention on the WWW. My defense is for the pockets of believers in all corners of the globe making up the body of Christ, not one man's project. Mathew 7:13-14 is about the body of Christ, the one true church. Not about one man's blog or denomination or social club of 'christians'.





These arguments are always about size, figures etc. Forget about the ''truly saved'' story. Its always about the earthly bragging rights like ''we have more money'', ''we have more branches'', ''we have more global presence'', ''we have more political and business leaders'' etc. It's about competition bro. My focus is on getting folks to know the truth and get a true relationship with Christ that puts them in the body of Christ, not enter a relationship with an MOG or a denomination.




@the bolded. Those are my exact sentiments but i decide to go with the bogus claims of the members lest i be accused of being jealous of the BLW nation. one even claimed they have 20million members worldwide on one thread. God will not ask how many members CEC has on the last day neither will he ask for that of DLBC. He's only interested in adding to his church: The one body of Christ. CEC or any other denomination is very irrelevant in these discussions. I leave squabbling over denominational identity and figures to those interested in breaking the earthly record books for most attendance or most popular or most wealthy.

You might have a million members swear affection for you but only 100 have a relationship with Christ and you might pastor 200 people and 175 are truly saved. Only God knows. God isn't interested in your loyal members, he's interested in his church:The body of Christ. Are your crowd part of that body?

The road that leads to life is indeed straight and narrow......only a few will find it says the Lord and i believe him.

Gombs my broda before whom circumcision has been evidently set forth as devoid of ANY spiritual value,do you now understand why a Christian needs NO MARKS/SIGNS to be admitted to Abrahamic covenant/blessings which he received while yet uncircumcised?

I have noted a tendency among the circumcised Christians to do the most intuitive; spiritualize their experience and look down on the 'uncut'. For all the supposed benefits of male circumcision, I endavor to caution my brethren against this haughtiness.

If at any point in time your pastor ever suggested this, please share what we have shared here. Don't put unnecessary burden on Gentiles than the Holy Spirit would.

Candour:
''Historically, the Roman Catholic Church denounced religious circumcision for its members in the Cantate Domino, written during the 11th Council of Florence in 1442.[46] This decision was based on the belief that baptism had superseded circumcision (Col 2:11-12),

http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM#5

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03777a.htm

and you said you were catholic once upon a time?

My broda,
I was just seeking your clarification on this not accusing you of nothing. Let's wind up this circumcision thing. Are the said physical benefits of circumcision available to heathens as well?

I took you through my position on the relationship between the Law and Grace. Once again, if it is reemphasized in the NT(love), not expressly forbidden(homosexuality), or its principle amplified (sin offering), run with it. When Holy Spirit inspires Paul to remind us that honoring parents carries a promise, that is Holy Spirit talking to me not Moses. When Hebrews tells me adulterers will be judged by God, that's not one of the Ten Commandments any more.

Tithes are NEVER reemphasized despite numerous giving exhortations which would be IDEAL for just that. They are not forbidden. The principle behind tithing is amplified. Paul says ministers of the altar live off the altar meaning he has a right to be supported in/for his ministry. Unlike OT regime which were mandatory, we have 'without compulsion' and as 'one purposes in their heart'. Fixing a percentage even a 'minimum' 10% CONTRADICTS 'as you purpose' bit. I can't 'purpose in my heart' to give an externally set fraction.

mbaemeka:
I never said so and if I did you can be kind enough to show it to me. I only said (to me) CIRCUMCISION is like Tithes in that one's righteousness is not tied to observing it. However, there are benefits to be enjoyed from it and they are physical.

Not honoring parents is a disobedience to the law of Moses and you cannot claim that law has been annulled for two major reasons:

1. Honoring parents preexisted the law
2. Paul mentioned it again in the NT.

So 2 christians imputed with Christ's righteousness could experience 2 different physical experiences based on the above (I.e the blessing derived). One Christian might die too soon and disobedience to that eternal principle could be the reason. While another Christian that should have died soon will live longer because of their obedience to that principle.

That's the same way with Tithes.

1. Romans 4. Read it backwards thrice. Abraham's righteousness came before circumcision. Circumcision just sealed it. Christians need NO MARKS to be admitted to Abrahamic covenant.

2. You claimed that Paul circumcising Gentiles is proof circumcision was not annulled. That's a bold lie. He only circumcised out of pressure. He also took the Nazarite vow. You want to do that as well?

3. Malachi curses and blessings were based on the Mosaic prescribed/MANDATORY 22% 'tithe'

mbaemeka:
1. Circular. What was the mark of the covenant? What was the significance? That's the only way we can talk about a replacement by any other means like we could do with freewill offerings.

2. Would Paul have been pressured to indulge in sexual immorality? Paul didn't say or allude to any annulment of Circumcision. He only said it had no spiritual importance!

3. They gave such percentages ACCORDING TO THE LAW. Prior to the law Abraham and Jacob gave ONLY ten per cent. Meaning 10 % was the benchmark. One could go higher if they wanted. Even on NL we have Tithers who give as much 35% of their income and it is of their own volition. Which is what God truly expected of his children.

Are you saying there are some spiritual non-righteousness BENEFITS to Christian male circumcision?

Not honoring parents is rebellion against Holy Spirit. There are good reasons why Spirit baptized Christians Ananias and Saphira perished

mbaemeka:
In terms of being RIGHTEOUS yes. That's all Paul said. A christian that refuses to honor his parents is as righteous as the one that does but you cannot claim they will have the same christian experiences. The reason is simple: God's word gave a blessing for the latter and it is very New Testamenty!

1. Who said there MUST be a physical equivalent?

2. Paul was pressured by men, not by Holy Spirit to circumcise. It means he would not have done it but for the ignorant folks. So his circumcising does not mean circumcision was not annulled, only misunderstood significance of the same

3. A tithe is 10%. Jews gave that TWICE per annum and once more every third year totaling to 22% p.a. That's a principle you need to run with if at all. You just admitted that you are living out the principle of giving to God willingly without butchering animals.

mbaemeka:
1. What else will be the physical replacement of the principle?

2. Paul was pressurized by people who thought that CIRCUMCISION MADE ANYONE RIGHTEOUS. Paul knew that CIRCUMCISION didn't do that anymore. That was his only grouse with it. People felt circumcision + Jesus = salvation but said ONLY Jesus = Salvation even though circumcision is not wrong. Get it?

3. Freewill offerings were peace or thanksgiving. The importance was the way it was perceived by God. So I am not helping your case. Because a tithe is ten per cent of what you get- regardless of money, lamb or farm produce.