₦airaland Forum

Obtuse incarnate

Image123:
You'll need to ask God or maybe your pastor.

So, why stop at tithes, kill bulls as well, grow hyssop and sprinkle the blood and the ashes

Image123:
It is the altar that sanctifies the gift, and it is the temple that sanctifies the gold. Go, find time and God to learn what that means.

You imagine that GIVEN;
1. All Scriptures is inspired and
2. Scriptures taught tithing

THEREFORE tithing is eternal and saying tithing is not for Christians is rejecting divine inspiration of the scriptures
Two facts and a fallacious conclusion. pathetic

Image123:
You're the one with issues bro, it's your interpretation. i should be the one asking what is hindering you.

So if everything belongs to the Lord, wasn't it redundant saying so in this verse?

Image123:
We've been through this before. Many things belong to the Lord in that chapter if you care to read through. It in no way implies that whatever is not written in that one chapter does not belong to the Lord. For goodness sake, the earth is the Lord's.

Why not teach and practice circumcision and animal sacrifices then since you would not go to hell for saying that?
And while at it, don't let your wife near the church during her you know what since ALL SCRIPTURES IS INSPIRED

Playing opossum not quite intelligently

Image123:
hmmmm, you would not go to hell for saying that.

You want him to put it down in Yoruba?

Do you believe or practice Firstfruits?
Is it in monetary terms?
Is there a remote reference to this practice in the NT?

page 137

Making a New Testament application of Old Testament technicalities violates every principle of Bible interpretation, especially when there isn't a single New Testament usage of the word "firstfruits" in the context in which it is being preached by some ministers.

The concept of firstfruits is not used in the New Testament in reference to financial giving. There is not even the vaguest hint of it by any New Testament writer in reference to money or the support of ministers.

Gombs:
Point where he rejected firstfuits... if he did, he would have spelt it out clearly. He said preachers used to say they are the priests now, hence firstfruits are for them. that was what he spoke against. A critic of Hagin wrote thus

Was his or Isaac's or Jacob's sacrifice any different from the Leper's who was healed by Jesus?
Were any of these sacrifices 'by faith'?

Exactly what do you mean 'by faith'?

Gombs:
So, Abraham did not tithe by faith, by what exactly did he tithe?

Pre-Mosaic tithing is NOT by faith any more than pre-Mosaic animal sacrifices are.
I may as well offer animal sacrifices and claim that Christ redeemed me from Moses not from Abel/Jacob/Abraham sacrifices which are by 'faith'. So when am offering, am not following Moses but Abraham my Father in Faith!

Exactly what do you mean 'by faith'? This is an ambiguous and overused spiritual jargon to confuse the ignorant

I have just replaced tithes with another pre-Mosaic practice, circumcision

Gombs:
Does what you wrote make sense at all? it doesnt to me

Gombs:
So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

the Law also 'merely' regulated circumcision,sacrifices and offerings. Were circumcision,sacrifices and offerings BEFORE the Law by faith?
It is nonsense to claim that tithing BEFORE Moses was by 'faith' since there was no Law as if no Law automatically means faith

Gombs:
Ah! the only sensible post so far after my Tithe post from the book Hagin wrote.

Hagin highlighted the law MERELY regulated tithing, and we tithe by faith (a fact you attacked me and Joagbaje for) check the tithes and offering thread. Now, If churches are not to tithe, how then should they raise funds? Offerings and free willed donations alone? right? ok

from what Hagin wrote, you think he missed it? if so, kindly point them out

If the people of God circumcised their boys BEFORE the Law, Moses was nearly killed over uncircumcision BEFORE the Law, they circumcised UNDER the Law,Jesus was circumcised, should we,who live by the grace do anything less when we have a better covenant?

I think we should circumcise boys and girls (FGM)

Gombs:
So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
2:12 For before that certain came from James , he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all , If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Who is 'THEM'?

Gombs:
i believe you have comprehension skills... but if you think Peter stood and Paul was ebuking him in the presence of the whole brethren in Antioch church, fine. Keep the delusion up

Great post Image123,

Am still waiting for PRACTICAL alternative proposals and my mantra is 'never criticize if you have no better idea'

Image123:
Lol, if they plant church every five mins drive away, you will complain. If they say everybody should gather together as one in redeem camp, you will still complain. Obviously, decisions cannot be made with you as the focal point na.

@OP, church finance is primarily an administrative issue. Headquarters of any establishment usually have more say. Perhaps, you find out how other parishes are doing it. i've seen some impressive rccg parishes in my little life.

Discussing problems without addressing the relevant people is gossiping am afraid
How much mileage do you think martin Luther King JR could have gained by blogging about racism?

omakay:
We are discussing about the administrative irregularities of R.C.C.G

Please, do not derail this discussion.

That he offers animal sacrifices because ALL SCRIPTURES IS INSPIRED

Image123:
Is that what they say? i've never seen a healed leper oh. So what do you prescribe?

Mark 1:44 King James Version (KJV)

44 And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

What part of that do you practice?

Image123:
So what do they say, how readest thou?

Gombs does not want his MoG shamed and he knows if you start shaming them,this is inevitable. This is why he is playing 'civil'.

So shame the practice but not the practitioners

shdemidemi:
Now, which way do we go?

Paul rebuked publicly, Gombs wants it to be an in-house rebuke like 'baba' did. On face value, I kind of think Gombs is right, but if we must go by scripture we must boldly follow Paul just as he himself followed Christ.

All scriptures are inspired

Image123:
Are ALL scriptures inspired?

What animal sacrifices do you prescribe for a healed leper seeing ALL scripture is inspired........?

Image123:
Does this fellow read what he types? Am i the only one seeing this contradiction? It would be a milestone if trstman sees this for once.

You are good negro
God bless you sir!
You have seen the light

Did paul name names?

Gombs:
Oh yes! I speak against it. But i will not mention Pastor's names and churches. I've never believed in extortion. I made mention of a friend of mine who left CE because she said her pastor, a lady, was 'greedy'. One day, maybe later, I'd share her story.

She was more that extorted. But I remember Pastor Chris this year vehemently opposing exactly same thing as what my friend's Pastor did to her. He did it with strong terms in this year's finance convention.

Now, a branch of CE did it, does it make the whole CE wrong or bad? I'm very sure that Pastor did it in ignorance, not as she was taught. That is why mentioning Pastor's and churches could be very erroneous. She misses Pastor Chris' meetings, alot, and can't seem to fit in another church, she listens to Pastor Chris at home, but I pray for her, always.

You should speak against it as well. Save your fellow brethren from pious fraud.
Did paul ever mention by name wrongdoers?

Gombs:
He condemned the act in strong terms, but not the churches, nor the pastors, for good reasons- They are not answerable to him, but to God. You don’t just crucify MenOG in your book or posts because you feel you are right. If you want to correct them, call them, like Hagin did, and rebuke them to their face as Paul did to Peter's face.

Imagine if Paul sat in his bedroom and wrote to all churches about Peter condemning him in strong terms. Paul wrote about the rebuke as you knew Hagin called a meeting rebuking some preachers, Paul did his rebuke in the presence of other Pastors (James, Barnabas etc) not to the whole Christians there, just like Hagin did in the presence of other pastors. Hagin has his church, others too, Paul was to the uncircumcised, Peter to the circumcised, imagine if Paul condemned the curcumcised church with their Pastor (probably head pastor) ?

I believe in prayer, condemning these Pastors or the churches WILL NOT make any change, if it could, those putting up short videos, blogs, websites etc would have made an impact-we both know the didn’t and haven't..., we have the message now, we preach it, share the book, send to these pastor's etc... condemning to me will not help the body of Christ, it would inevitably degenerate to insulting and all. Our weapons of warfare should not be carnal.

You talk about social injustices on NL,right? Is that your best?

omakay:
The subsidiaries are revenue centers: This bolded is the bottle-neck. Adjust the bottle-neck and all will be well.

you got a major ax to grind with RCCG: Why won't i. Am not like peeps who see things going wrong and keep quiet due to "religion solidarity"

nonsense

They see me rollin, they hatin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtwJvgPJ9xw

I don't know how Hagin did, care to explain?

Gombs:
Like Hagin did?

Negro,
you got a major ax to grind with RCCG
Mother churches maintain a tight grip on the satellite churches. May be the ideal would be to raise men and women to run with sattelite branches and let them be. I strongly suspect the only reason churches control their 'subsidiaries' is money. The subsidiaries are revenue centers

omakay:
the mandate that God gave to them : It is now a question of either 2 facts which are "God's mandate to man" or "Man's self-originated goal". The way affairs in the church are being run nowadays,i strongly want to question your above statement. 60% of these parishes being planted after most "Let's Go A Fishing" programs are being used as catalysts for the promotion and upgrading of mother parishes. How else do you think a parish is being promoted to become an area head-quarter.

And the workers and ministers that are being commissioned to manage the new babies have already being trained to accept whatever command they receive from their leaders (whether right or wrong).

N.B : If you want to argue on the points i have stated above, then it clearly shows that you have little or no knowledge of how the system works.

Before a parish can be planted by an already existing one, certain things must be put in place.

1, Accommodation must be adequately provided for: The proposed premises must have being bought and paid for or rent paid for at least 3 years.

2, There has to be a physical structure in place: You cannot tell me that you have not seen containers, wooden structures and shops being used as parish structures. The Almighty God i serve does not have a standard so low as that.

3, Operation Equipment must be in place: Adequate sitting arrangement, sound and acoustic equipments and other secondary equipments must be place.

4, Revenue generated in that parish should be expended on that parish: Do you think the parish does not have running costs to take care of? Plus the fact that the congregation number is still growing.

Lemme stop here first. I need to wear my helmet and body armor.

The Faithful Brethren will come attacking very soon.

thank you for your honesty.
DO you believe they should be condemned in the strongest terms?

Gombs:
I'm not sure, not in my church though


Refer to the above, I have no reason to lie, nor cover anyone

Ever witnessed any of these personally?
Were you convinced that it was WRONG?
What did you do about it?

Gombs:
No name calling here, i won't partake of that stunt. How many ministries did Hagin call out? You thought he was blind or deaf?

What you should do is to analyze the strengths and challenges of the existing system and then propose yours and demonstrate how it tackles the challenges/weaknesses of the former without necessarily compromising on the strengths.

I have discovered that no matter how spiritual a fellowship may be, it is always susceptible to error such as what you are pointing at

SO if you were healed of leprosy, would you offer animal sacrifices just as Jesus Christ commanded in Luke 5:14?
You are Obtuse incarnate

Image123:
Gospels is bible, Hebrews is bible, demisquare consistently teaches that they are not written to him, citing some twisted excuse about dividing the Word. This is so glaring it's pitiful that anyone would contest it not to mention demi himself. Three different instances below for posterity.

Am sure image scarcely believes this herself.
Jesus also COMMANDED an ex-leper to offer animal sacrifices. Do you offer sacrifices?

Luke 5:14 English Standard Version (ESV)
14 And he charged him to tell no one, but “go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, as Moses commanded, for a proof to them.”

You can read all about the OFFERING in Leviticus14:2-32

Image123:
seems you need another education on tithing, seeing all you have been shown has either been forgotten or was never learned or you are among the "ever learning" crew. Jesus Christ taught tithing and said it ought to be done. Let all reputable men of God (so called) be liars and Jesus God be true.