₦airaland Forum

Teempakguy:
You are becoming restless.

I Think it's quite mundane though, that you're demanding evidence for things we see in everyday life.

if a block of Gold and a block of silver are placed together side by side in space, eventually they will fuse. and form a Gold - silver mixture which is uniform.

Are you serious?

clouds of dust rotate around stars. they eventually form planets.

This is a THEORY called thus with very intelligent reasons namely it is full of holes

If you pour garri inside water, you will get a random suspension. as time goes on, it will settle into the bottom of the water. as even more time goes on, the water will evaporate, leaving a cake. isn't that orderly?

A sorry silly example.

this is how crystals are made by the way. they are based on the principle that random things must eventually create order. this is why you can't stand a pencil on it's tip, if a piece of paper with stuff written on it is left, after a long enough time, the ink will migrate such that the color of the paper becomes uniform.. so many examples.

Right on cue just like plaetton you googled snowflakes. Why did you forget crystallization?
I have responded to him on why snowflakes are the lamest example of order out of chaos and I won't repeat myself.

Who told you I don't know how stars are formed? of course I do. they're not wild theories. if they were we wouldn't be able to use them technologically. which is what is going on at ITER.

They are called theories with good reasons. Let that sink

again, both the human brain, and information, are subject to chance. so i really don't see your point here. mycoplasma genitalium as well is a product of the same process. just because we haven't been able to prove that in a lab, shouldn't mean you guys should claim it was constructed. because we will eventually create life in the lab. and you had better be practicing what you will say then.

REPLICATING life processes are not the problem, it is imagining that just because you did it, this is what happened. Study logic my friend. Affirming the consequent won't fool,nobody.

Put it this way
1. We believe Big Bang produced or was caused by Higgs Boson
2. We generate Higgs Boson in the Collider

Conclusion
Big Bang is proven!

I'm going to leave you with one interesting question though.
if a cereal bowl, the size of CANIS MAJORIS, the largest star in the world, was left in space as soon as it was created, what do you think will eventually happen to it? hint, it is a very interesting answer.

You have attempted to dither and philosophize your way out of a simple point; DESIGN~~~~~>DESIGNER

Teempakguy:
Lol, you spelled infinity wrong.

anyway, my point is, The CELL is obviously functionally impressive. Not physically so. if it were designed, it would and should incorporate both characteristics, shouldn't it?

Physically? To whom? What makes you think aesthetics is a primary ingredient for DESIGN? And who judges its ugliness?

The evidence points here that the cell wasn't designed by an intelligence of any kind.

What 'evidence'? You made up rules of what design should be and you conclude absence of that as CHANCE? They call that strawmen

it simply wanted to do something and didn't care about how it looked like while doing it.

You are losing it. Do Subarus think they are ugly?

This is like stumbling upon Einstein's energy/mass equation on a beach. and it was written in Chinese. at that point, you have every logical right to claim it came by chance. The only way to prove you wrong is for the person who wrote the equation, to come and explain what it means to you while claiming credit for it. so far, God has not been found anywhere. hence our first hypothesis holds.

You don't need a Subaru manufacturer to explain how they did it, the product itself screams design which in turn points to a designer

Also, yeah, hypothetically, the entity that designed the former also designed the entity that designed the latter. that is one hypothesis. an hypothesis which can be tested by evaluating the claims of this super entity against his actual characteristics.
the experiments for this have proved him to be unreal. for instance, he didn't create the world in six days like he claimed. and water didn't come before the sun, like he claimed.

That's your opinion

The second Hypothesis is that The entity that designed the latter was designed not by an entity, but by a process.
and all tests for this hypothesis have been proving it true lately.

By what process what information added to DNA?

for instance, We have observed similar stars and planets being formed by processes.

Nobody has ever seen a star form, they just THINK they do. On the contrary stars dying are so common, it is no longer news

robots, artificial intelligence, are being developed using artificial evolution, and it's working quite well. and the elements, are being formed using the same processes earlier hypothesized, and it's working.

Robots, artificial intelligence...they point to INTELLIGENCE not random processes
'Artificial evolution' whatever that is entails INTELLIGENCE tinkering with DNA under conditions that can't POSSIBLY exist in nature

the only thing we haven't been able to simulate yet is life itself. and that is why these arguments are still taking place. a God of the Gaps issue.

Scientific endeavors constantly prove ID inadervently; INTELLIGENCE/EXTERNAL INFORMATION are prerequisites for complexity and order

Teempakguy:
we already have a subaru. so . . . 13.7 billion years.

You don't even understand the concept of chance.
by character, chance is self inhibiting. random things create order as time goes on.

This is affirming the consequent fallacy.
Claiming it does not make it so. Give EVIDENCE

this is how stars are formed, this is how planets and solar systems are formed. everything here is formed from random things that become orderly as time goes on. so yes, chance kills chance and injects order and complexity as time goes on. get that intuition into your mind.
There are countless proofs of this anyway.

You don't know how stars are formed, there are just WILD theories You don't know how NOTHING is formed.

CHANCE does not make Subaru, human intelligence and information does. How much more Mycoplasma genitalium with 452 genes and over 500,000 bases!

Teempakguy:
why else?
the ubiquitous religious indoctrination everywhere.

Look, a Cell.

A Motherboard.


I find it hard to believe that the entity who designed the former is smarter than the entity who designed the latter now.

The reason you have a hard time is your ignorance.

Explain how one is better than the other.

dalaman:
It's a question.

Ok. It has shifted from a quote to a question...hmmm

Start a fresh thread and invite me.

For now, respond to the OP

Gcares:
OK ooo.
I wonder which holy book the Hebrews slaves consulted when Moses told their God had sent him to them...eehmm

There were no scriptures then. But there were CLEAR oral traditions passed on from generation to generation. So even then, they were not moving with 'feelings' and 'revelations'. Do you wish to go back to those days?
By the time Jesus Christ walked on earth He could confidently shrug off temptation by IT IS WRITTEN

Do any of this make any sense to you?
Before you attempt sarcasm on me, explain to us how you test your 'revelations'

dalaman:
Is the universe designed?

Quote me

Teempakguy:
Chance has NO limits. sir. NONE.

Ok

CHANCE will manufacture whatever Can be manufactured at it's own time.

Glad you injected time.
How much time do we need for CHANCE/random natural processes to generate a Subaru?

Think about the Idea of the subaru, someone designed it, right? But where did the Idea come from? his brain, And how does the brain work? Well, you might be shocked to find out that the brain works on chance. The brain doesn't work on predetermined programming. but by using pseudorandom neural connections and firings to generate Ideas.

Circular thinking.
You set out to prove chance can produce a Subaru and you end up arguing that CHANCE first kills CHANCE and injects order and complexity

If the most intelligence system on the planet, the human brain, is Governed by chance, then how do you expect to convince me that it wasn't CREATED by chance?

More circular argument and totally deflecting.
What is the probability of a Subaru or its equivalent forming on Mars?

lepasharon:
Why should I seek the opinion of religiotards. My supervisor will have a field day with my topic

Why are you bragging about it here Negro?

Nitwit

dalaman:
Which straw man? You have been implying that something must have designed the universe yet you are talking about a straw man, did some thing design the universe or did it appear by chance? Which is your position because that has been what you have been on about throughout this thread?

My posts are all here. Pick specific bits you wish to be taught on

Teempakguy:
Right, so you are arguing that God may have been designed now?

Nope, am arguing against CHANCE and you are busy deflecting. You are all shying away from this. CHANCE has limits. Chance can't manufacture a Subaru in a gazillion years.

how do you know if his designer won't someday mess things up for him? how can you be so sure of all his plans when even he is subject to another higher intelligence? and how does that explain him referring to himself as . . ."the Only God. no one more powerful than him?"

CHANCE can't produce a Subaru in a trillion trillion years

Okay, so what do you mean by "Eternity is timelessness?" time is a dimension. if there is a reality that doesn't have time, it is flatland to us. if your god exists in such a world, you're way more powerful than he is.

I will gladly teach you eternity some day. For now, focus on CHANCE

I also don't think you know what you meant when you said quantum mechanics governs everything. intelligence is a subset of everything. are you know admitting that everything is governed by chance? nigga you are confusing yourself.

Negro,
You said God is equally governed by quantum mechanics. Pretty horrible logic if you ask around.

Again, focus on the limits of CHANCE

dalaman:
You have been arguing for a designed universe and an intelligent designer behind it, haven't you? Is the universe designed or not?

You won't quote me, right?

Can I forgive you for strawman?

dalaman:
Is the universe designed? Yes or no?

Post my specific quote or admit you made up a strawman

Teempakguy:
You didn't complete this statement.

Which one?

Christianity: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to a superintelligent being which, owes it's own existence to CHANCE (Near Impossible.)

Presumptions

Why would God owe His existence to CHANCE? This is the standard deflecting I was talking about. Does the nature of God affect this argument in any way. Supposing I conceded He is also created and his creator is also created and so forth... Doe this negate the fact that life is too complex and ordered to be a product of chance?

And yes. Eternity is not eternal. I opened a thread on infinity in the science section where i explained some terms of infinity.. even infinity has sizes and no matter how big the infinity you take is, there will always exist an infinity which is bigger than it.

Presumptions galore
why do you reduce eternity to infinity? Eternity is timelessness

Intelligence is not the antithesis to chance. because even deep down, intelligent systems are governed by quantum mechanics. which, itself, is governed by chance. how's that for a food for thought.

Presumptions again
QM governs everything

justicejay:
Nigerians believe in shouting while praying,we believe that if we shout God will give immediate reply to our request but how true is this?
Have once be challenged by a church mate that why do I always pray gently or in silence but I told him that I don't like shouting when talking to my God.
This week Sunday, I invited a Muslim girl to my Church and after the service she asked me why people were shouting during the prayer section. She asked in a disappointed tone, 'won't God answer my prayer if I pray silently.I just told her that it doesn't matter how she raised her voice, she only need her heart to be connected with God and she was relived.
But till now, am still confused why Nigerians believe that if they don't shout their prayer won't reach heaven.
So I decided know the opinion of the NL.

[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%205:7]Hebrews 5:7[/url] tells us HOW Jesus prayed while on earth.

dalaman:
No, I will not, you said the universe was designed, tell me what it was designed for, why are you running from what you are positing? Just state what the universe was designed for.

Please quote me and I will gladly answer you

lepasharon:
Why would they tear my work. The UK is an enlightened society, unlike circular thinking Africans.

I meant tear through your hollow arguments. Not them but us here. Just post your paper for all and sundry

lepasharon:
Firstly, what is design ? And how can it be measured ?

With a steady internet connection and Google, the definitions would overwhelm you.

oyeludef:
@analice, I'll try to add to wat vooks av said later in the day i think he is so on point. However, am finding it difficult to connect because my heart is a bit heavy cos I woke up dis morning to a sad news that a friend of mine is dead. No sickness, a person who gyms regularly, very fit. All of a sudden just slumped nd gave up the ghost. Indeed the devil is a liar. Dis is endtime and its only those who know their God dat shall weather d attacks nd evil d devil is throwing all around. I believe by evening i should av been in a better condition to comment on your question because the kingdom of God on earth still has to move on.

Am sorry for your loss bro
The suddenness of death adds to its sting. May the Lord comfort you during this trying moment.

dalaman:
You are the one positing design, so you tell me what the entire universe was designed for.

For a gazillion things but for now concentrate on this;LIFE ON EARTH

dalaman:
He is playing God, that is what all believers do , play God but refuse to answer basic questions about the God they keep claiming and positing. How did God create anything since they insist that God created everything?

Nonsense. Do you need to know HOW the Subaru was made to understand there were some serious brains behind it?

saying that God created things without telling us how he created them is empty and laughable.

Why is it laughable?
Do you know need to know HOW a jet flies to understand it is designed?

Those that claim God should please use God and explain to us how the DNA of organisms mutate for example.

Those who ignore Intelligence in creation should FIRST explain HOW and from whence DNA came about

How does God explain anything?

Because it is infinitesimally mor0nic believing in CHANCE as responsible for life( order and complexity) to INTELLIGENCE

God has never been used to explain anything, God has only been used to make claims.

CHANCE has been used to explain the impossible which is quite some bullsh*t

When you ask the God advocates specific questions they all run away.

When you raise the idiocy of CHANCE and NOTHING causing everything,antitheists pee in their pants

I want any body that claims God, to use God alone and explain to me how this God of his/her created the sun, how the sun functions and the mechanism it uses to power itself.

INTELLIGENT DESIGN is not about HOW GOD does but HOW CHANCE CAN'T

Only God should be used to explain these things, after all the claim they speak to God, so they should speak to God and ask him these questions, when he answers them they can let us know. Anything apart from that means they are just making stuffs up and relying on our collective ignorance.

You are making up your own rules.
For instance, can we demand that plants explain to us how they thrive, pollinate, photosynthesis and all?
And would their inability to explain that falsify anything?
You can't barely understand how man functions or even some disciplines yet you peg proof of God to understanding Him. You are not smart

"Religion and God(s) started when man had enough intellect to form profound questions but not enough to find answers for them".

Bla de bla

dalaman:
What is the universe designed for?

Take a guess

AlfaSeltzer:
Yes, a design points to a designer. So?

Evidence of DESIGN rules out the naturalistic theory of Origins by chance.

AlfaSeltzer:
No, it doesn't.

See the image below. One might argue that it was "designed" to be exactly like it is but this is not true. Even though the person that made that image was intelligent, the pattern of the splash of paint was completely by chance. The probability of making another exact copy just by splashing paint on paper like the designer did is nearest to zero.

You are not far from the truth.
Chance can create complexity but ID is more than complexity; it is complexity and ORDER.

Read up my posts on why life is not only complex but highly ordered in no way random chance can


PS
What's so complex about this pattern?

Gayjesus:
You always have rude words coming off you. I'm done here!

Don't lock the door behind you

Gayjesus:
Perhaps you do not understand your claim. That a designer created the universe and the creation of the designer cannot be questioned? You will need to explain what/who created the designer to make your point valid

You are deflecting.
Disprove this simple proposition; DESIGN rules out CHANCE

Gayjesus:
As far as a higher level of understanding which is not clouded by religion is concerned. The universe is reshaping itself every seconds. Science have made us realize that African continent is moving 2cm away from the American continent and it will take them 250 million years to join back and become one. Thus changes are being made every second and this is obviously due to nature.

Where is the designer today?

Reshaping is an eternal process, right?
You would be lynched in scientific circles for entertaining an eternal universe position

analice107:
Am studying this passage of the Bible, and I come across this words of Christ again.

Matt 5: 13. And I have this to ask.

What does it mean to be the 'Salt of the Earth' as a Christian?


Matt 5: 21-23.

Not every one that saith to me Lord, Lord shall enter into the

Kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my father.

Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, have we not

prophesied in thy name, and in thy name cast out devils and

in thy name done many wonderful works?

Then, I will say unto you, depart from me 'I KNEW YOU NOT', you workers of iniquity.

My emphasis is in, ' IN YOUR NAME, we cast out devils, did

wonderful works.

Why will Christ say to folk who did exploit IN HIS NAME, to

get behind him, and called them workers of iniquity?

I can understand, if men call him with their mouths but their

hearts being far from him, but those who performed

miracles in his name?

Bro Charles, Oyeludef, Vooks, Collins, and company.

let's reason.

There are two possible explanations;
1. Sinners who have never had a relationship with Christ can still invoke His name and miracles,prophecies flows

2. There are Spirit baptized believers who will end up in hell

My opposition to 1 is because on Pentecost Peter preached that the promise of he Holy Spirit accompanied by the spiritual gifts is a gift of those who have repented 'as many as he Lord may call'. This means it is impossible for a non-believer to operate in the prophetic or miracles

option #2 is difficult because Calvinism the foundation of Protestanism teaches eternal security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). The idea is man can't possibly by sin undo/unseal what God has done/sealed. I don't believe in this doctrine and I believe believers will end up in hell if they continue in sin after receiving Christ.

There are several passages warning apostasy and sin and I won't get to them for now.

The miracle workers and prophets here are dismissed as workers of iniquity. This tells me spiritual gifts don't disappear the moment you sin or even live in sin. This is what I have been saying all along. While it is fantastic and an honor to be used of the Holy Spirit to manifest His gifts, we should focus on the Giver and not the Gifts.

Unfortunately, genuine gifts are quite rare and fakes abound. This makes us Pentecostals to place an UNREASONABLE value on spiritual gifts. We literally worship them and act like their absence is punishment from God. We also esteem the Gifted as somewhat special breed of men and women. This ought not to be so.

How can Christ who have you the gift say He never knew you?
To me it means knowing Jesus is a dynamic as opposed to a historical relationship. Not only must we confess always as our Lord, we MUST live it out.

This is what Jesus was talking about in this verse;

John 15:6 English Standard Version (ESV)
6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

These branches in order to be cut off must have been in Christ in the first place. But they end up in fire.

Now now,
This is not to threaten us with hell as such but to communicate the need to cultivate a close relationship with Christ so much that He will readily confess you as His brother

Selah!

Gayjesus:
Since Christians/creationist are claiming everything has a designer,then their god also have a designer we do not know of. It is either god doesn't know it's designer or god doesn't exist at all.

Those options are a figment of your seminized rectum

AlfaSeltzer:
Can you articulate please?

I see you said "not necessarily". Does it mean that a designer like Enzo Ferrari may not have been designed himself? Please be clear.

I mean let us FIRST deal with the fact that design points to a designer and the nature of the designer or origin is irrelevant to this

Gcares:
@oludef(sic)
Sir I truly respect your inputs on these thread. No one is belittling my faith will find time to respond via more scriptural references. As vooks said it's a public space and it's open season on any opinion posted here. So my advice is open to any sort of criticism. The Lord is the one who shows what is approved or not.
@vooks why been so combative in your responses? I have the same right to reply as you do to criticise and you really don't have to Have the last word on every opinion to show you are knowledgeable or something.

You have as much right as anybody else here and I don't recal nobody suggesting or even remotely hinting that you don't.

Anti-nud!ty among Angels is is your own invention with zero basis from the scriptures. We have a simple task; choose between the inerrant Word of truth or your 'revelations'. can you guess what we will choose?

AlfaSeltzer:
If the Subaru has an intelligent designer, then that designer must have been designed. Don't you agree?

Not necessarily.
Let's be clear, ID is simply saying 'no chance in hell of chance of doin it'. It is deflecting he strength of the argument by focusing on the designer's origins if at all