₦airaland Forum

lepasharon:
Lol..my dissetation in Uni is destroying the fallacy called Intelligent design. Even when was religious I never uesd to beleive in Intelligent design

Why not share it and watch it torn to shreds as you watch

johnydon22:


the greatest flaw in the intelligent design argument is that is presents complexity as a basis for design.

It asserts nature is complex therefore must have been designed, forgetting that something intelligent enough to design such complex system would even be more complex than that which it designed.

So how come the super complex designer could exist without being designed by another designer but nature that should be less complex must require a designer.

If one says the complex intelligent designer don't need another designer, that person has shown complexity doesn't really require a designer and so nullifies all his/her argument.

There is no way for it to work..

It's sad you have cheerleaders for such nonsense.
You don't need to dissect the intelligence of the Subaru manufacturer to conclude the Subaru is a product of intelligence.

The design in and of itself is sufficient to point to a super intelligent designer regardless of whether the designer was designed or not.

The intelligence of the designer is no prerequisite for identifying design.

ID is first an eloquent argument against CHANCE and secondly argument for the super intelligence of the designer

thehomer:
Who says "everything" is fine-tuned for life on earth?

Reality

analice107:
@ Vooks,
better the ride than you. God win.

True dat
There are more where this came from, newer and shiner models. But there is only me. Glory be to Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior for warning me ahead and protecting me

oyeludef:
oh brother i thank God for his protection over your life. D devil is a liar.

My pastor says 'the devil is a liar and so is his mother in law'

analice107:
Vooks, you are not hurt I hope? Thank God for his mercies.

your going and coming is secured in Jesus name.

Thank you Anas09,
Amen and Amen.
I'm not hurt but my ride is pretty bruised and it will cost the insurance a tidy amount to get it back in shape

Strawman:
I wouldn't blame him really. People often use me for the sake of winning arguments...

Funny Negro

Had 2 dreams yesterday and today morning.
Today involved police, money and damage either to my car or by my car and I thought I was going to be arrested for speeding.

17 hours later a vehicle lost its brakes and rammed into my side. Am still at he accident scene

The first dream, yesterday's entailed death of a close relation and I was really weeping by the grave only for this lady to console me that he repented and went to heaven.

I woke up, called him and told him he needs to surrender his life to Christ for nobody knows the time of their departure.

analice107:
Oh my God.

Brother Oyeludef. Today, I declear you my personal pastor.

your insight is amazing.

Brother Vooks. I always look out for you. Weldon. your

scriptural strength is wonderful, I pray the Holy Spirit

upgrade me to U and bro Oyeludef's level.

@Gcares. lol @ Angels seeing us naked. seriously?

pls try to understand those beings. let's go back to Eden.

How many years was Adam and Eve naked? wasn't God

Himself coming to fellowship with them? did their naked

stopped God from coming to them?

And how come Adam didn't realise that he himself was

naked not to talk of his wife until the Fall?

If you ask me, the beings that recognises the unclothedness of

men are the fallen Angels who try to have sexual

intercourse with humans. (just me thinking).

pls let the scriptures guide us.

Amen.

Thank you for your kind words, the little I know has been given me of God, am still work in progress and learning.
After spending most of my salvation chasing experiences, I have now seen the wisdom of the Reformers in their Sola Scriptura (scripture alone) rallying point. To defeat Catholicism heresies, they simply stood by the scriptures and nothing but scriptures.

I know it comes out as arrogant demanding scriptural basis for every word we say but beloved scriptures is the ONLY objective measure of truth. Just imagine,what is the MOST glorious experience recorded in the New Testament....is it not Transfiguration?
-Christ form changed for a moment
-Great sound from heaven, this is my Son'
-Moses and Elijah (the chariot of Israel)

But over and above this, Peter who was there tells us there is something MORE SURE

2 Peter 1:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

He is saying that over and above our subjective experiences of who Christ be, we have the Word of God. Experiences, dreams, visions all have their places but nothing occupies a higher place than the Word of God. I'd rather err in interpretation of scriptures, I'd rather get it wrong while trying than excel in subjective experiences for which there is no way of testing them.

Am not a new believer nor am I a dinosaur. From the little I know, spiritual gifts are no measure of our walk with God or even maturity. So I refuse to be so excited by these manifestations that I drop my guard and forget to default to the scriptures.

Why do we have an aversion to scriptures? The answer is because it is not easy to study scriptures. It takes time whereas receiving a revelation is instant. God I have learnt will never reveal to you words you have never read. In short,there are no shortcuts with scriptures, either you read or remain without. Lately am slack in my devotion and am praying for extra grace to go back to my first love.

1feness:
You ain't worth it.

Only a two-bit primate takes this long to figure it out

1feness:
That means you brag while you have nothing. I will back what ever I say up.

Good for you. Try again

1feness:
Apart from the ipad what else have you got,show me. Don't change the subject.

You can do better than this. Try again

PS
it s iPad not ipad

1feness:
Very well and thanks for that. Obviously a sign of frustration. Be man enough to prove what you said you are.

Prove am better than you by smashing my iPad?
Weed is bad for your lone and extremely idle neuron

1feness:
You started it and I am curious to see what it is you have that is so special. Reasons I asked you to list them. The Ipad seem very dear to you though. I dare you to smash it on the wall.

You are a worthless primate and I would never sacrifice my privacy to quench your curiosity

I will do smash it as soon as I master using a single neuron like yourself. Hard work suspending thinking.


PS
it is iPad not Ipad

plaetton:
Is this a rebuttal?

Am sorry I hit 'submit' before I was done. Please read up the post

plaetton:
Another inchoate Babble.

Snowflakes also scream of design.

What is the probability of a beautiful, aesthetically perfect, symmetrical, mathematically exact, 5th dimension geometric snowflakes forming by simple random environmental flux ?
Answer?
1/1.

If nature can whip up snowflakes in just few hours of environmental flux, then 14 billion years of ceaseless celestial flux can whip up just about anything.

You are quite predictable.
To bluf off probabilities you cough up lottery, snowflake and let me guess what next you are busy summarizing
3. Arrangement of cards in a deck after shuffling
4. People walking across a busy street
5. Arrangement of sand grains in a pile of sand
6. Salt crystals

On to your snowflakes trump card
Has it occurred to you that water forming snow(flake) is doing what NATURALLY it can only do?
The properties of water molecules and atmospheric conditions are all that is needed for the snowflake patterns.

Formation of snowflake is inevitable. But since when did you see small organic molecules form themselves into
longer sequences of molecules carrying information you find in living organisms.

Young man, think about the snowflake pattern on a mat. Does it not scream design? Why would it scream design on a woolen mat and not a snowflake? The answer is simple; 'information' required to form the pattern is already built into water molecules while the same is not built I to wool.

1feness:
You boasted about something you cannot back up. I don't talk about material stuff,check my threads you won't will see 1. Perhaps its the useless Ipad you are showing off that makes you think some of us are beneath you?

Stop envying my iPad, it's the least of my toys, cost just over $430 last year and no Negro brags about a $430 gadget.

I will not go public just to prove a point. You should engage your fellow ret@rds with such hollow dares

AlfaSeltzer:
if this earthly life is the best god can make, how omnimpotent is he.

Who told you it is the best?

Presumption will kill you again seeing you are already brain dead

plaetton:
Another inchoate Babble.

Am no prophet but I know overheated puny brains when I run into any. You are way out of your depth. One day a billion years for. Today, your brain will evolve bigger enough to stomach and digest my post

davien:
I'll sum it up for you then...
1. You choose to ignore a basis for your original claim I. e "everything in the universe is designed"

2. How one knows artificially designed objects is due to the fact that there is evidence supporting it being produced by non-natural intelligences...

3. Words like "painting, writing, etc" that you often use to ask questions about design already infer design from the very definition...

4. You cannot then equate items that are already known to be designed(like paintings) to things which aren't(like the cell)

5. Words like "complex" do not give reason for design as natural systems also tend to become complex irrespective of any detectable intelligence...

Thank you davien, you are almost there.
#1 I was explaining fine tuning for a layman. I did not stop at 'designed' but 'designed for life'. By deliberately ignoring that , you quote me out of context for your devious reasons. Wikipedia can give you a better definition of fine tuning. Go there if you are ready for that.

#2. This is partly true. Like I said, you need not know all artificial processes are capable of to identify design, you can arrive at the same conclusion by understanding the LIMITS of a natural process. Take the Subaru, you damn well know there is not a chance in hell of random magma and rocks ordering such a beau as a WRX. This is sufficient to conclude the machine as designed by intelligence without any knowledge of manufacturing. Had I for instance instead of the writing made a pentagram or a perfect square with a circle inside it, you'd have arrived at the same conclusion seeing you know too well the waves can't do that. In short, you employ elimination to be left with intelligence. You simply say, ' chance can't possibly do this, so there MUST have been some intelligence behind it'

#3. I used them to explain my sandy beach writing. I could have left it blank and aksd you for your interpretation. The point is, we can tell limits of chance when we see complexity

#4. Am not equating them sir, it was an analogy. The simplest cell is a gazillion times more complex than writing on a beach or a WRX. Point is if such simple items scram design, how much more the overly complex and highly ordered living organisms!

#5. Very true but there is complexity that defies the 'natural systems tend to become complex'. At this point, a relevant example would suffice. You may also want to define complexity and distinguish it from complicated.

plaetton:
Simple question.
Have you spotted your half-Think or not?

I want to give you a chance to extend your thoughts beyond your asxxs.

Make my day

AlfaSeltzer:
^^^^ what's your point?

I have just given a generous measure of your IQ at 44(+/-1)

plaetton:
There is a 1 in 50 million chances of winning the super jackpot lottery.
Statistically, this means that if a person plays it 50 million times one after the other, the person has a chance of getting it right.

But yet, one person always seem to beat the odds to get it right?
How come?

Can your tiny brain figure out why ?

So, same with the rubic cube.

1% in billion years maybe, assuming one move per second.

But, but my little brain-athrophied friend, what if , rather than one sequential move after another every second, one, in this case nature, makes 13 billion simultaneous moves per second?

What would be the new odds?



You get my drift?

Unfortunately, I know you wouldn't.

I knew you would quickly Google and throw in this lame rebuttal. This at least shows you agree with me on the probabilities of life being low but somewhat since other low probability events do occur, then life by chance however low the chance should not surprise, right?

Do you understand how lotteries work?

In lottery there has to be outcomes and somebody has to win. With jackpots when nobody wins, the digits to try your luck are ADJUSTED to follow the number of tickets bought or likely to be bought to ensure frequent winners especially of less-than-full digits guesses. With life processes, there are NO outcomes. Think through that.

Besides, arguments against life by chance is not merely a matter of overarching complexity but ORDER that just defies natural explanation.

For your puny brains I will use a simple example. Books. When last did you read a book?
Books keep information. But WHERE exactly is this information? The information is not in the ink nor letters but in the highly complex arrangement of
0. letters~~~~~>Nucleic acid bases
1. letters into words, ~~~~~>codons
2. words into sentences, ~~~~~>genes
3. sentences into paragraphs~~~~~>operons
4. Paragraphs into chapters~~~~~>chromosomes
5. Chapter which make up the book~~~~~>Genome

This is your genetic make up. Note the order, and remember it is totally INDEPENDENT of the chemicals involved.

Does science acknowledge design as evidence of intelligent agency?
Of course they do whenever it suits them. For instance forensic science determines whether a past event was an accident or one designed and 'purposed'. If you think this is farfetched,how about SETI (Search for Extra-terrestrial Intelligence)? They are basically listening out for audio signals from outer space. How do they distinguish noise from ET communication? ORDER and pattern

Teempakguy:
you seem to be forgetting something.

this subaru is a product of gradual improvement. human intelligence didn't just pop it into existence. there have been other cars in the world before this and it is a product of improvement on them.


in the same way, Life is a product of gradual improvement. not formed by random processes but pseudo random Processes. the thing is, these processes built upon each other. life did not . . . spring out . . . like the bible claims. it formed. painstakingly . . . over billions of years under just the right processes. and had time to develop into what it is today.

You missed my analogy completely.
The Subaru simply tells you that such complexity can't possibly be due to chance. The Subaru screams design and this is why you will not entertain any natural random process such as volcanicity forming such a beau

I agree that the Subaru WRX is a product of 5000 years say since Mesopotamia developed the wheel.

When I say the probability of life is 1/10^55000, am not talking about human intelligence or a primate as yourself but the SIMPLEST unicellular organism from which we supposedly developed over billions of years.

Such probability in anything else would be called ZERO but sadly, you believe it for a fact and actively propagate it.

a superintelligent being popping things into existence however, is questionable because one must immediately ask, where does the intelligent being come from? who or what created it? and saying it is eternal doesn't solve the problem! it only makes it harder. why would eternity possess intelligence? even eternity is not eternal. for every time, you can always go back in time further. so there must be a time when this superintelligent being did not exist. so what brought it into existence?
random processes, right? not?

What do you mean eternity is not eternal?

Now, no religion claims to fully comprehend their deity. As a Christian, I readily concede, 'I don't know'. What am doing is examining two worldviews where one is debunked by simple probability whereas the other one is fully supported by probabilities. How so?

1. Naturalism: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to CHANCE (1/1^55000)
2. Christianity: such incredibly complex organisms owe their existence to a superintelligent being

What is the probability of a superintelligent being eternal or not forming such a complex organism?
I only need to look to human intelligence at work to see how intelligence turns impossibility to possibility!

As I said earlier, intelligence is the antithesis of chance

sonOfLucifer:
Lol. Started playing AA8. Unlocked season 6 without spending a dime on those credits. I spent so much on League of Legends (MOBA game, pretty fucking addictive).. not much into mobile gaming. I'll download temple run 2 just to see if I can beat your high score. These days, I just hand out serious ass whoopings on fifa 16 when friends come around..

I have gone to Season 4 but I got bored. It's sort of repetitious. Same case with Temple Run 2. Can't complain about getting wet in the shower

Here is my TR2 streak.
I played FIFA over 7 years ago and I gave up. I like my soccer real

plaetton:
I must always remind you to stop half-thinking.
You never think through an issue before firing hot air from you windbag.

Google is good , but is not a substitute for a real education, real knowledge.

You wrote that it is 1% in 13 billion years to randomly get it right, assuming one move per second.

But your half-baked brain missed something essential.

Can you spot it ?

Mighty glad your puny brain is not overheating from pure wisdom and sense shared here. Keep following and within a few million years you may have evolved into something worth marrying my daughter

1feness:
Put your money where your mouth is. You made a claim,back it up.

I wish I could but am so dumb so as to air my privacy for Neanderthals like you.

Stoke my ego and I may just budge

1feness:
In what ways are you further in this life than I can dream of? Make a list!

I would but for my privacy concern

1feness:
It is well know that reproducing animals come from a single celled ancestor called Eukaryote species that can both carry out sexual and asexual reproduction. And for humans,it is possible to lose this unique abilities due to the vicious nature of we respond to our environment.

I wonder why a self acclaimed educated mind would ask such childish question when you can obviously get the answers in well researched science books?

'Well guessed' is more honest.

Now, did you know the probability of that creation forming out of natural processes is much higher than locating a single electron in the entire universe?

Teempakguy:
number of possible chess moves is 10¹²⁰

What are the probabilities of an intelligence that can win a chess game, popping into existence without being caused? yes, very big

What is the probability that a humanoid brain can arise from the void without being developed? yes, very very big.

What then is the probability that a brain which is infinitely more powerful than a humanoid brain (a creator) can arise? IMPOSSIBLE. and don't tell me God is eternal because the probability of the existence of an eternal, infinite intelligence is equally IMPOSSIBLE.

Again, like I said, the difficulty in solving a Rubik's cube is largely based on the players unintentionally repeating or negating their moves. a Rubik cube can actually be solved from any position within 20 moves.

Mars and Venus are two planets. there are a sextillion amounts of planets in the observable universe. i can similarly argue with you that it is impossible for an entire planet to be made of diamond. proof? none of the planets in our solar system has a diamond core.

You are confused.
What is the probability of life forming given all the conditions? 1/1^55000

Question is why such negligible probability is touted as a fact,science and alternative to a superintelligent being being behind life?

Intelligence is the antithesis of chance. While the probability of random processes forming this Subaru are next to nil, throwing in human intelligence and materials increase the probability to 1

sonOfLucifer:
Ok..this is my post of the year... so funny...

You realize the only reason those marks have any meaning is because alphabets and languages are means by which we communicate. To those who aren't familiar with the roman alphabets or english language, they'd just be marks on a beach. well, figure the rest out..

You don't need to know alphabets and languages to tell that is not the work of the waves, you only need to know the limits of what waves can do so you automatically rule them out

hahn:
Vooks sounds like an alchoholic who smokes weed

He'll definitely be a fun guy to be with. Most theists also have doubts but they come online to argue against atheists who have accepted the stories as hogwash in order to verify their own beliefs. It's fun though

BTW, that your write up about "poo" was really interesting. I'll definitely be looking forward to your updates. Ensure you come up with those poems of yours as well

I'm a teetotaler and I certainly never smoke weed

1feness:
words like theses will not get you far in life. It makes sense that a fairy tale character of Jesus was intended for people whose tongue move faster than their brains

Am further in life than you can ever dream of.

Now, what have you brought to this world that is worth talking about, what value have you added to humanity?