₦airaland Forum

1feness:
Everyday you wake up you benefit from the blood,sweat and tears of Science and technology. Every form of trial and errors have lead to that Ipad you hold dearly with your life. Did you think the design came from the Bible?

The point is, there is no chance in hell of this iPad forming by chance

I cannot count how many Christians are addicted to Facebook and twitter. Yet if the world had followed the supposed teachings of the bible we know where we will all be right now.....follow cows and rams about in the bush while waiting for Jesus to come perhaps.

Does Christianity substitute science, art, culture? This is a strawman. Which brings me back to a question I aksd. What have you invented yourself? What makes you worth more than the urn we will put your ashes after creating you? What VALUE have you added to humanity?

I wonder how much you cracked your brain to end up with a silly question like the "planet was fine-tuned for life",are you really serious? A planet that got the dinosaurs wiped out is equally as dangerous to life presently on it. Actually the reverse seem to be the case....Life has evolved to fit nature!

I wish there was a better word but m0ron you are.
First, why do you presume that the universe is supposed to sustain life indefinitely such that death is actually a measure of how far it has failed in preserving life?

Next, once there was no life apparently because there were no accidents back then or simply because nature was so hostile. So life that was non-existent somewhat fought valiantly and won over nature?

Teempakguy:
It's the other way around actually. life is fine tuned for the universe. The universe actually doesn't care.

Sir, nobody is saying the universe cares and it specifically goes out of its way to ensure life is maintained. Bad deduction right there. More on this fallacy later

but wait, if the sun was too far away from earth and water did freeze, how do you know some lifeforms wouldn't spring up with an efficient way to cope with that? by finding a way to live in Icy conditions? already, we have found some lifeforms that can withstand superheating and superfreezing. hence your first point is . . . well, doesn't apply.

The answer is simple. Because there are no life forms on Venus nor Mars

Nitrogen oxyen ratio is so because oxygen is more reactive than nitrogen anyway. too much oxygen, it will burn itself out. restoring the original ratio. carbon dioxide is rather little because carbon is in high demand. in fact, the only reason why it even exists is because it is a result of respiration. think of the amount of organism that can be formed out of all that carbon. as for gravity . . . no, we can live pretty well without it. see space stations. but then, of course, we wouldn't look like this, but whatever life form that evolved would think "Imagine if we had one force, constantly pulling us to itself. that we could never escape from, that would be terrible!"

Now that you brought it along, the relationship between the air components and living organisms, you are talking or an egg/chicken problem; what came first, the organisms fit for whatever environment or the environment adjusted itself to suit the organisms which continually tinkered with the environment?

If the hundred blind men were not allowed to repeat a movement they had made in the past, they most surely will solve several rubik's cube in a few million years. and that is the thing about the universe. It doesn't repeat things. once something is done, something slightly more complicated will follow. and then another slightly more complicated thing will arise out of that.

what do you think will eventually happen then?

Let's look at Rubric's Cube.
What is the probability of randomly getting it right blindfolded/randomly?
1% in 13Billion years assuming one move per second. For a hundred men, it is 0.01%

His is a long way of telling you IMPOSSIBLE

Now, think about the SIMPLEST life form. Is it possible to compute the probability of this life being formed by natural forces ASSUMING all the ingredients are there? It is 1 in 10^55,000.

How many electrons do we have in the entire universe? 10^80

Evolution and Big Bang does not need Christianity to dismantle it, probability suffices

sonOfLucifer:
So why are you getting an Air 2? Didn't know you were into gadgets too. Nice. You sound like a guy I can share a bottle of Orijin with.

Been pushing it forward to pay fees for some relations, may be by end of this month unless something else comes up. Ever played Temple Run 2 on Air? What about Asphalt Airbone 8? I live for speed and if I don't do 90-100MPH for at least 30 seconds every week I fall sick. Asphalt has weaned me off that, nowadays it's all fantasy

Teempakguy:
There is a flaw in your reason, mr man.

The oceans are not random. they are in fact, a deterministic system. at any given point, we can correctly predict their behavior. they will level any contours on the sand they wash over. That is in fact their behavior. any attempt to disrupt the uniformity of the beach will be countered by the sea.

It is therefore within reason to conclude that any opposite behavior was caused by something which is not the sea. and could possibly be a human handiwork.

The universe on the other hand, is the most unpredictable thing EVER. There are only a few forces which restricts it's behavior and within those constraints, it constantly awes us. it made up planets that are all diamond, planets that are pitch black, planets with three stars, all sorts of mundane things. What if life is just another of it's . . . consequences?

I like your thinking sir.
1. We make decisions based on the information we have.
2. Our information is limited or at least growing
3. Even in our limited/growing information, we can establish facts

#3 is how you quickly concluded that the handwriting on the sandy beach is not the work of the waves because you know enough of the waves to know what they are incapable of.

But you lose me when you claim the universe is unpredictable and that there are a few forces which restrict its behavior.

When I said EVERYTHING is fine tuned for life this is what I meant;
1. The distance between the earth and the sun is just right for the water cycle. Too close and the water boils and evaporates indefinitely, too far and most would be frozen and unavailable for life
2. The earth's crust width is just right, the nitroge:oxygen ratio,ozone level, CO2, Gravity, axis tilt,

And so forth

The probability of all these independent aspects of the universe being just right for life is extremely small we may just say impossible. Think about the probability of 100 blind men solving the Rubic's cube simultaneously

parisbookaddict:
Been very busy..hope u are alright

Totally. Welcome back

hahn:
Cool. But you have to admit that you come up with some really creative insults

You and plaetton should fix a date to chat. I am sure you'll absolutely love each other. No homo

Good idea
But I will need to to practice using a single neuron first so when we meet he won't be intimidated

AlfaSeltzer:
Illiteracy.
This is what happens when you attend the same university as the nazarene.

I have always thought satanists are illuminated and extremely brilliant fellas like SonofLucifer but you, you are a disgrace to Satan.
You think evolution can be compared to technological leaps?

plaetton:
Gosh.

Just as I thought.
You didn't get it.
Lol.

Another waste of my efforts.

Oh well,
I thank the Toothfairy that I am not posting for brain-atrophied folks like you.

When grown ups keep 'lol','gosh', it sounds like am dealing with sissies or Negroes trying too hard to show that they had a brush with civilization

hahn:
I terribly need the ipad air. If you see my bold 2, i've been using it for 3 years and I am kinda emotionally attached to it, you will give me the ipad air and ask me to kneel down for prayers

Am sorry bro,
I have used every blackberry since 8700. My last was this Q10 lying idle by my desk. I have decided to give touchscreen a try and am liking the iPhone 6 Plus.

About iPad Air, you need to understand that iPads are more about brand than practical utility. Can you imagine I can't download an MP3 as I have to buy from iTunes or sync them to my Air using a PC? Can you imagine I can't install whatsapp on the iPad and I can't send you a file using Bluetooth except your gadget be Apple? To get around this crazy controlled ecosystem you have to jailbreak it which comes with its own problems

Point is am not sure you will love Apple if you haven't used one before, I'd rather you get a nice Tecnopad or a Samsung tab. But if you insist, I will definitely consider sending it to you as soon as my Air 2 gets here.

hahn:
Yeah, I guess so. Those people who jump, drop and roll in churches feel it too, don't they?

I just feel that as a theist you should show a better example especially when it comes to controlling your temper.

I don't have a temper so I have no need to control what i don't have

plaetton:
You know , I wish there was a way to convey sincere truths to you without appearing to insult you.

When I say that you are you intellectually vacuous, I don't really mean it as insult.

Let me ask you a simple question.
Who created the Subaru you posted above?

Who woke up one day and designed the Subaru?

How many different parts make up your Subaru, and how many scientific innovations, scientific principles are incorporated in your Subaru?
And where all these parts, their engineering mechanisms, all designed by one person all at once.

You half-think too much.

Have you ever read up on or considered thinking about the evolution of the automobile?

I bet you haven't.

Your Subaru, the automobile, has evolved over the past 150yrs or so, incorporating different scientific concepts, laws, and social necessities.
In other words, all the technologies incorporated into your Subaru followed the processes of scientific discovery, as well as social necessities.

It is the same way that simple dust clouds aggregate and accrete by gravitational forces to form planets and stars, establish an stable orbit, and on the right conditions, water and the seeds if life.

To use a finished product of human ingenuity as proof of intelligent design is soooo juvenile, soooo amateurish, soooo half-thinking, that it embarrasses me to respond as I am presently doing.

Your shiny Subaru is an evolved object, a scientifically evolved specimen of human social evolution.

It didn't spring up by magic, you silly half-thinker.

It underwent rigorous trial and error processes over a 150 yr period, even going further back to the invention of the wheel , to the steam locomotive engine.

If you cannot understand the slow, rigorous and dynamic processes that have led to manufacture of your Subaru, then you may never ever understand the slow, rigorous and dynamic processes of natural evolution.

And that just makes you a little stuuupider than most.

Now you really look like a marine invertebrate.
The Subaru did not go through'rigorous trial and error processes over 150 years, it probably took a week or less to assemble.

Now m0ron listen and listen hard.
Exactly what underwent the 'slow,rigorous and dynamic processes of natural evolution'? Dirt?

hahn:
Where will we meet?

Now that's a good question.
You badly need my iPad Air or you are just pulling my leg?

hahn:
Bro, the least you can do is show a little bit of christ-like behavior by not responding with insults. The more I read your, and other theists, comments the more I don't feel the presence of the Lord in you. Be a good example and maybe that will be able to convince atheists of a need to believe in this god you are talking about. Your behavior is really appalling

Good idea.
Are you supposed to 'feel the presence of the Lord' in people?

Gcares:
@vooks my earlier post was clear enough I said totally unclad with emphasis on 'totally'.
Please the post is for those it's meant for, the Spirit will accomplish the rest. Thanks have a good day.

Since you posted in a public place, it is perfectly in order to question your basis
Why is it when questioned you resort to gymnastics
What makes you think the Spirit is not 'accomplishing the rest' through me? Is your idea of Spirit accomplishment confined to agreeing with you?

hahn:
Give me please

Will do when we meet

plaetton:
Big laugh.
Once again, proudly showcasing your " half-think" syndrome.

Let me try to rephrase davien's question in kindergarten-speak for you.

Now, if your great grand parents, whom I assume , could not read the English alphabet, came across your scribbling on a sandy beach, what criteria would they have used to reach a conclusion on whether the scriblings were made by ocean waves, seagulls , sea turtles or kids playing on the beach ?

You get my drift ?

I truly doubt that you would .

Good morning m0ron Amateur Septic(sic),
Knowledge of what waves can and can't

You honestly think there is a knowledge gap that would ever make it sensible to believe a volcano can spew Subarus?

Annunaki:
Yeah they routinely spread al taquiya and teach that christianity is false and these their lies are heavily documented in their commentaries in the quoran and presented as facts to muslims. Denigration of christianity is a core part of islamic teachings and they see it as normal but if you try and point out just one of the numerous errors in the quoran or even state the obvious that mohamed is a false prophet, all hell will break loose and they will start killing for allahh. Bunch of ignorant hypocrites.

Very true. Masters of double standards. How long do you think you or parisbookaddict would survive if these threads were face to face debates?

Gcares:
A word of advise please desist from sleeping totally unclad(naked). As your guardian angel or any messenger from Our Lord would be forced to turn their backs on you so they do not view your unclothedness. These beings are honorable creatures they will not dishonor you by looking at your unclothedness which will make passing urgent messages from the Lord to you pretty difficult. Gen9:20-24,1cor11:10.
Not trying to stir up any controversy, the advice is for both sexes. Thanks God bless.

This is highly questionable.
1. There are instances where one MUST be unclad like when taking a bath and this teaching of yours suggest that is your weakest point because angels would rather keep off than look at you naked

2. For Married believers this is extremely awkward having them make love and then dress up so as not to wad off Angels

3. This has no scriptural basis. There is one verse where a naked apostle was delivered by an Angel

Acts 12:7-8 King James Version (KJV)

7 And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

8 And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

4. The teaching that believers are to CULTIVATE any relationship with angels is mysticism which Paul warns against

Colossians 2:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Angels at powerful beings and ministering spirits to heirs of salvation but we only engage them when they do and actively seeking them out is a sure doorway to deception.

-Joseph Smith of Mormons had a very cordial relationship with an angel called Moroni
-Mohammed had an angel constantly downloading messages throughout his life
-William Branham also claimed to have an angel around him throughout

You can see a pattern here; a cosy relationship with Angels is certainly not of God and leads to deception

John the Revelator had an active interaction with an angel as he received Revelation. But recall this was TEMPORARY

Our duty is to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and not to Angels. We don't owe them nothing

davien:
I really need to laugh out loud here, for someone who claims design in everything, but yet can't answer up on his own premise...

First of all, writing is by definition(there can't be a writing without a writer) indicative of a writer... and as far as evidence goes human intelligences dwarf any other phenomenon be it animate or inanimate that would be assumed...

But for someone with your original premise, there is no distinction between words and ocean waves(since everything is designed) and I still want to know the criteria you base that on..

You are not coherent
Rephrase your question

SirWere:
theism, sadly.

Sadly? Why sad about it

Annunaki:
Problem today is that christian leaders are being politically correct in their comments on islam whilst islamic preachers routinely denigrate christianity in their mosques at every opportunity they get. More efforts needs to go into exposing islam globally before they wreck an havoc the human race will not be able to cope with.

I hear you my broda

See what somebody wrote in 1391 contrasting Aidan with Christianity from the link I just shared

Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood — and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…

To your point,
I once saw a Quran with the first few pages dedicated to artacking some basic tenets of Christianity such as trinity and he divinity of Jesus Christ complete with bible verses 'supporting' the arguments.

The point is, Muslims at all levels are not only taught that Islam is 'true' but also how Christianity is false. The amount of bile they pour am certain had the shoe been on the other side,they'd readily KILL everyone

Annunaki:
Yes oh! I also missed her brutally frank posts she is a real torn in the flesh of the islamist

I think it was the pope who resigned Bennedict who said Christianity is founded in reason and this enraged Muslims as they rightly read it as implying their religion is based on brawl and zero brains. The hostility meted out on opponents of Islam vindicates Bennedict. As a Protestant, I have never heard higher wisdom from ALL the popes who ever lived. Funny enough, the Muslims denied and threw tantrums and I think a few lives were lost

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_lecture

dalaman:
Surprisingly it is you that hold unto such a belief because your beliefs is something close to that, that the irony escapes you is what I find amazing.

Please answer my question.
Is there a remote chance of this super hot WRX erupting from a volcano or any other random process?

parisbookaddict:
Wow.. are u saying this so i should be afraid of the words of a well known paedophile murderer islamic prophet who combined several apocryphal books, fables and bible texts with the myths of his moon god as worshipped by his tribe , smart people who have actually studied mohammed know he was a fraud..

Ur islamic allah exists in ur mind and ur mind has no consequence that concerns me... the 72 virgins in paradise with dates does not exist.. if u are smart u should not believe such utter nonsense. .

parisbookaddict,
I really missed this moniker

dalaman:
I do not subscribe to any theory that has not been demonstrated to be factual. Your argument here on this thread has not been that the creation account you believe that is written inside the bible is factual and non mythical, but it seems all your argument is that the BB and evolution are equally false, I have nothing to say to that, but how does the BB and evolution being false substantiate the mythical narrative of the bible that talks about some imaginary God concept creating the earth before creating the sun and the stars?

It does not 'substantiate' the 'mythical narrative'.

Now, walk with me.
Is there a remote chance that this Subaru erupted from a volcano, or any other random process?

mohemos:
Just need someone to clarify me on the following :
1. According to evolution, human and Apes share the same ancestor. The ancestor decided to embed the ability of evolution in human and left Apes rigid but why ?

No sir, both man and apes are still evolving though it seems to me that the ape was 'left behind'

[qupte]2. From what being did the ancestor evolved from ?[/quote]The common ancestor is long extinct and that's why they have Homo Habilis,Homo Erectus and so forth. But palaentologists are hopelessly dishonest

3. Are they (The Ancestors) the only being that can evolve ?

Every creature with DNA is capable of and still evolving

4. Evolution takes thousands of year to occur and is a gradual process, why is human still the same for more than 500,000 years ?

Evolution is constant but noticeable change happen over long stretches of time.

5.Big Bang occurred created both male and female of every being, HOW ?

Big Bang made matter which formed primitive life forms which later evolved into man male and female

6. Their are people with supernatural powers, How can be explain this through Big Bang and evolution ?

Depends on what you mean by supernatural. One may argue that flipping DSTV channels by remote is supernatural because they don't understand how this technology works. In short, the supernatural may be nothing more than poorly understood natural concepts or occurrences

I know there will be rain of insulting words on me but I care not, just answer my questions.

Nobody is insulting you. I wish much as you may not believe in evolution or Big Bang, you should at least understand them

SirWere:
Tending towards agnosticism

From atheism or theism?

dalaman:
Your own making. I have never said something came from nothing. What is/are responsible for the universe no one knows. We have how your own God said he created the earth before the sun. A mythical narrative you have discarded and refused to accept.

Like I said, admission of ignorance is a welcome move, but does ignorance mean proclivity to the most ludicrous theories?

SirWere:
meh, man has been deliberating on this issue AFTER a revolution in thinking and abadoning religious constraints. Sadly, there is no answer because

1) No one was present : If earth is destroyed by nuclear wars and aliens come down to these earth and they saw an Apple laptop, They will acknowledge something lived here once. An argument however, might stem by saying "Who created the first laptop?" (we are assuming Apple laptops are the only laptops on earth). There will be many theory and hypothesis but still no proof.

2) Who cares??: Even on Nairaland, there is a little percentage of free thinkers and athiests. Most people find it easy to just go to church every sunday to pray for sins they will commit in the coming week.


Vooks, I have to ask : Are you a christian or an agnostic?

Am a Christian. What about you?

Dnacode:
Its because things evolved in the earth so there is a natural fine tuning.

Fine tuning is not about animals
Google is your friend but I can help you along

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe

menesheh:
You are pushing big bang as if it is the default position of an atheist. As Johnny told you that there are theists who believe in big bang so there are atheists who believe in big bang. He goes further to tell you that the propounder of the theory is a creationist.

You continued repeating same thing over and over again.


Worship is totalitarian north Korean regime. Why would a god demand worship from you. Is he not morally and ethnically alright?

An absolute evil king who can kill when deems, command his minions to bow down to him in order for them to receive favour. This 21st century, we ain't going to stone totalitarian regime. We are civilized age more than ever before human started recording events.

Worship is not a good thing. How can you possibly justify worship to supposedly be a good thing to hold on to.

I have no problem with scientific theorizing, it is when theories including the hopelessly ridiculous ones are propped as facts that they cross the line hence my term pseudoscience. In this regard, they are as mythical as anything else.

Presently it takes more faith to believe in evolution than Genesis.

How is evolution related to Big Bang? Evolution is an attempt to explain a godless origin of life. It concerns itself with a presumption that matter existed somewhat. So an evolutionist will chide a creationist for presuming an intelligent Uncaused Cause but throws tantrum when we tear their presumptions apart?

The evolutionist runs to Big Bang. But this creates more problems for him as Big Bang is closer to religious dogma than science.

Menesheh now is distancing himself from Big Bang and evolution. He ought to give us a better alternative to Intelligent Design evidenced by Design.

If he can't, he should hold his peace and wallow in his standard retort, 'I don't know'

But even this escapist 'I don't know' is clearly nonsensical. As I have proved, ignorance does not stop you from ELIMINATING thre most improbable suggestions.

Another example will suffice
While I DON'T KNOW Menesheh age', I would instantly rule out the idea that he is a weeks young toddler still suckling because I KNOW what toddlers can and can't

menesheh:
I will repeat this, i don't know the meaning of big bang.

All i care is that no body should worship anything wether big bang or come from nothing or designerr.

Nor should they worship asinine theories that nothing formed chaos and chaos formed order(you)