₦airaland Forum

heykims:
Deception everywhere!! Christianity is declining faster. In fact atheism is increasing. Known facts, google is ur friend.

Islam has been the fastest growing religion according to proven statistics since the year 2000.

We know better today.

Teempakguy:
God does as he pleases now?

Ask yourself.
It pleased Him to create you.

Teempakguy:
So God isn't a loving God then? because the concept of an all loving God who ALSO does what he pleases is a blatant contradiction. the most Observable quality of love is compromise. God cannot continue to act like a child while simultaneously claiming that he is Love.

How does doing what pleases you contradict love?.
You are trying really hard to create a fathomable god in your brains.

Teempakguy:
And also, yeah, I meant what i said. She IS insignificant. not only have I never met her before, This is also the first time I'm hearing about her. she has no substantial proof of what she is saying. People have drawn more mundane things as proof of their existence. do you know how many drawings of unicorns exist? do you know how many drawings of bigfoot and ufos have been produced as proof of their existence? heck, there are even photographs. this one na small thing.
unlike you, I don't shiver at any small thing I read on the internet. If there are not enough facts to convince me, Then to hell with it.

The little girl is far more popular than you are. If you need proof of that too, its just a click away.
Of course, People draw unicorns, big foot, santa, but i dont see you talking about them. And the reason is simple, THEY DONT EXIST.

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence." - Carl Sagan

You sound sure of God's inexistence, Maybe you should provide us with your compelling evidence or enough facts.

Teempakguy:
When you've been submerged in an ocean of wildly varying information like I have, you tend to learn not to convert to a religion based on mere claims.

I probably have more information than you think you have. Its why i dont subscribe to the "mere claims" that nothing created everything.

Season Greetings

cloudgoddess:
OP, this only proves that atheists turn to theism for the same reasons people who are already theists cling to their theism - comfort, illusion of safety, desire to live forever, desperate desire for objective meaning. Unfortunately none of these say anything about whether their theistic claims are true or not.

I take it you have no meaning, you are just a result of some random processes. Well, nice to meet you.

cloudgoddess:
Just as any Christian (ex-atheist or not) can say, "I KNOW my God exists because (insert non-evidence based, emotional reason here)", anyone of any other faith or religion can say the same (I know Buddha's methods are the keys to enlightenment because ____. I know the Hindu God Krishna will cause me to reincarnate because ____). And since none of you would have any objective evidence for your claims, you're all on equal ground and there's no reason to believe any of you.

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence." - Carl Sagan

Maybe you should give us your evidence.
Also provide a picture of the human as proof that it exists.
thanks.

cloudgoddess:
Also, I'm quite certain the amount of people becoming atheist far trumps the amount of atheists becoming religious, especially in the modern day where atheism is more a result of the vast amount of scientific knowledge available to us now + open discourse about religion on the internet.

Yeah, exactly 15 years ago, i heard islam is the fastest growing religion in the world with statistics to back it up.
Today, we know better.

Chizzled06:
Firstly, Which bible? There are varying compilations.

The one that still stands tall through centuries of scrutiny, skepticism and all sorts of attacks.

KingEbukasBlog:
An ETERNAL GOD cannot be from a material universe which has a beginning

I wonder why they try to quantify the Almighty God with their "created" human senses.

KingEbukasBlog:
Lol . So true . When they get overwhelmed by reality , they look for any means to sustain their unbelief

Im sure if he watched a clip of chrisangel turning into a leopard(which he did), he'll believe.

jayriginal:
You provably have. I've seen several people turn to goats. I've turned to goats myself.

What neither of us have seen though is a person turn into a goat.

Anything to make you feel safe man.

KingEbukasBlog:
In Dalaman's voice : Do you have a video clip on this ? I need to see this happening . This must be a scene from a movie any ways



Assumptions , assumptions & more assumptions

Wicked!!!. lol

BodyKiss:
If the idea of enternal nothingness to everything sounds ridiculous to you, so dose enternal being to everything, to me.

How can any sane person make such statement as the above, and with so much pride.

Eternal Being
Eternal Nothing

Are people seeing this

BodyKiss:
It's more plausible to believe in eternal nothingness to everything if you put in consideration, the billions of years of processes it took, than to believe that a being popped out from nowhere and started blabbing to himself for 6 days, and bang... the universe and everything in it appeared.

Just answer the question in the picture below and see how much sense you make.

BodyKiss:
That said, I'm no creationist, and I'm pretty certain that your knowledge on the subject is very very limited, and your comparison... very shallow.

Most theists here will school you on the topic of existence so what exactly are you saying

BodyKiss:
The fallacy used to be that he lived in the sky, thanks to science, today we all know better. The goal post has now been shifted to him being outside of space. What then does that make the story of the Tower of Babel? Another fallacy?

Sky? Wtf is this guy saying
And stop holding on to science to feel relevant, it isnt synonymous to atheism.

neocortex:
I would assume it is only you who have access to the "preserved" bible.

Make sense please.

neocortex:
What is your excuse for regarding the "Supreme god" ?

Should we just accept it because you said so ?

No, accept it cos its the unchanging Truth.

neocortex:
Unforunately , all your quotes were hogwash but you chose
to accept them on faith.
It is a fact that no original pre-jesus bible manuscript exist,
so much for preservation.

The quotes are very accurate and you know it.

@ bolded, funny, you guys will say anything to clear your conscience.
Buh why even battle with your conscience?

BodyKiss:
You mean like God came out of nothing, or are you admitting someone created God?

Look up the word eternal, thanks.


Which sounds more rational?.
An eternal Being creates everything OR
An eternal nothing creates everything?.

BodyKiss:
Hypocrisy is when you berate creationists for "creation out of nothing", and then believe that God came from nothing.

Better put. Irrational Denial is when you believe something will come out of nothing rather than Someone.

KingEbukasBlog:
Lol ... Dalaman would turn a blind eye to this . He claims he is so sure that God did not create the universe

I think he has compelling evidence that God does not exist, but for some reason cant show anyone.

donnffd:
You know bro, I ddnt want to answer you but your ignorance is pitiful, if someone doesn't believe in your Hebrew text then he is close minded?

You'd wish i made such claim.
My point; think outside the box
Your interpretation; Your headache

donnffd:
I am certain that for someone to be an atheist, he or she must have read science books,philosophical books,biographies,autobiographies of great thinkers of the past,

You are certain Once again this shows how close minded you are.
You speak for all with certainty, how intelligent.
Well it will interest you to know that most atheists (on this forum at least) are, simply because of one emotional quake or the other. Its why they bring up the argument on "why bad things happen to good people" when freshly engaged, Its why they call God all sort of names. Do your research.
And how sure are you that most christians havent even read vastly than self acclaimd atheists?
The only difference is that we recognize and can filter out crap.
Stop trying so hard, atheism is not synonymous to science.

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence." - Carl Sagan

donnffd:
A christian reads the bible and he believes he knows all the secrets of the universe and noone should challenge him unless they are closed minded...

Smh...Merry xmas

The Bible stands tall always even throughout all the years science thought it had it right and the Bible got it wrong before more findings confirmed the scriptures.

Ill leave you with these quotes by Bernard Ramm.



“Jews preserved it as no other manuscript has ever been preserved. With their massora they kept tabs on every letter, syllable, word and paragraph. They had special classes of men within their culture whose sole duty was to preserve and transmit these documents with practically perfect fidelity–scribes, lawyers, massorettes.”

“In regard to the New Testament, there are about 13,000 manuscripts, complete and incomplete, in Greek and other languages, that have survived from antiquity.”

“A thousand times over, the death knell of the Bible has been sounded, the funeral procession formed, the inscription cut on the tombstone, and committal read. But somehow the corpse never stays put.”

“No other book has been so chopped, knifed, sifted, scrutinized, and vilified. What book on philosophy or religion or psychology or belles lettres of classical or modern times has been subject to such a mass attack as the Bible? With such venom and skepticism? With such thoroughness and erudition? Upon every chapter, line and tenet?”

“ The Bible is still loved by millions, read by millions, and studied by millions.”



Merry christmas.

KingEbukasBlog:
@winner01 ... nice article . The spelling of introduction tho

Thanks Bro.


https://www.nairaland.com/2988881/atheism-terrorism-annihilation-quest-atheistic

https://www.nairaland.com/3162092/causes-atheism

https://www.nairaland.com/3136350/does-god-exist-design-argument

https://www.nairaland.com/3138198/does-god-exist-moral-argument

https://www.nairaland.com/2975009/christianity-reason-science

https://www.nairaland.com/3148752/atheists-express-rage-against-god

https://www.nairaland.com/3174536/4-simple-responses-science-based-atheism

https://www.nairaland.com/2722039/former-atheists-speak-testimonies

https://www.nairaland.com/3136908/does-god-exist-cosmological-argument

https://www.nairaland.com/2499498/quotes-famous-men-bible

https://www.nairaland.com/2715905/5-atheists-lost-faith-atheism

https://www.nairaland.com/3161103/why-atheists-hate-god

https://www.nairaland.com/3146793/atheist-dies-goes-hell-then

https://www.nairaland.com/2845259/all-different-religions-how-know

Chizzled06:
Atheism requires a leap of faith to believe in a causeless universe, one which I'm not prepared to take.

Dalaman

Chizzled06:
Your question is irrational.

It's like someone asking to how Science discredits the Quran, the Torah etc.

You can't discredit something with no credence in the first place.

Its is a clear redline, give scientific facts that discredits the Bible.

Introduction

How did God get here?
Richard Dawkins, among other atheists, thinks he has the ultimate proof that God doesn't exist. If God created a complex universe, wouldn't it take an even more complex entity to have created God? However, such logic assumes that time has always existed, rather than being merely a construct of this universe.




Who created God? It is an age-old question that has plagued all those who like to think about the big questions. Having grown up as an agnostic non-Christian, it provided me with a potential reason why there might not be any god. Various religions tend to solve the problem in different ways. The LDS church (Mormonism) says that the God (Elohim) to whom we are accountable had a father god, then grew up on a planet as a man, and progressed to become a god himself. Many other religions have claimed that gods beget other gods. Of course the problem with this idea is how did the first god get here? This problem of infinite regression invalidates such religions. Christianity claims that God has always existed. Is this idea even possible? Does science address such issues?


Christianity's answer
Christianity answers the question of who made God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tell us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:

"No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)"

The idea that God created time, along with the physical universe, is not just some wacky modern Christian interpretation of the Bible. Justin Martyr, a second century Christian apologist, in his Hortatory Address to the Greeks, said that Plato got the idea that time was created along with the universe from Moses:

"And from what source did Plato draw the information that time was created along with the heavens? For he wrote thus: 'Time, accordingly, was created along with the heavens; in order that, coming into being together, they might also be together dissolved, if ever their dissolution should take place.' Had he not learned this from the divine history of Moses?"


God exists in timeless eternity
How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.


God exists in multiple dimensions of time
The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.


Why can't the universe be eternal?
The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters. Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.


What does science say about time?
When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang). In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.



Conclusion
God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).


Article by RICH DEEM


source: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/who_created_god.html

dalaman:
You are making false claims. Incantations alone can not cure any body from a deadly snake bite. It has been demonstrated to be false. I will post the video later. If you have any video to support its veracity just post it already.

Messi scored a wonderful solo goal against getafe, mikel tried to demonstrate the same feat but lacks the capacity.
A very "open-minded" person like you would call messi's ddmonstration false because mikel tried it and fail.

Never you use the word "open-mindedness" ever again.

KingEbukasBlog:
Please If you have a video of you eating your breakfast on October 2 , 2015 . You can post it here for me to believe you did eat breakfast on that day .

I wonder what is really wrong with that guy.

dalaman:
Take anybody you know that can prove the existence of the supernatural. You can take that your snake man there let him use his incantations to cure deadly snake bites and win a million dollars. Don't you wanna win a million dollars?

Why not take up the challenge and demonstrate it, since you believe something came from nothing.
You are a very sick and rigid individual for calling peoples experiences false.
You could as well have expected me to video my friend struggling to breath, so i can show him later.
You need help.

dalaman:
That is why you will keep remaining in the dark.

You who is in the light, hows it going over there.
You see, the problem with you is stubborness and dishonesty. Nothing is out of the natural, Everything just started, Man just happened, and when hes dead, hes dead. Simply because any attempt at a logical explanation far exceeds the human bearing capacity.
And then you want to build every other belief on that? , its very crazy.
If that is not close-mindedness then i dont know what is

dalaman:
The greatest Magicians in the world like James Randi, Darren Brown, David Copperfield, Chris AngEl have come out and stated that there is no supernatural force used in magic to their knowledge. They perform magic tricks that no African magician I know can perform. They levitate in the air, stay inside ice for 24 hours, walk on water, dissappear, divide people into two equal half, do many scary stuffs.

You mean the greatest sorcerers, lol, In Nigeria, Ive seen a man turn to a goat in a village i went. He was a sorcerer. If he did it for the money, he'll be labelled a magician.
Ive watched chrisAngel, i used to have his clips on my fone as an unbeliever. ive watched him levitate severally.

You care to tell us the science or physics behind how they levitate or walk on water. You also mind telling us why most of the graphics of their coverage usually glorify dark arts (you'll know what i mean if u watch mindfreak). Also care to tell us how two people are cut in half and then switched – the girl gets the guys legs and vice versa. Or how a lady is suspended on a fountain. Just tell us something we havent already heard before.
If your answer is that the participants and people present are stooges or video trickery, dont even bother.

Ive spoken with Bishop Kayode peller, The famous professor pellers son and most times he exposed some of the trick used by him and his late father on Africans and their rulers back in the days. But, it would interest you to know that some "tricks" couldnt just be explained without the involvement of sorcery.

While i was in the east, i witnessed a woman who rot to death upon confessing on using "juju" on her husband, Juju she got all the way from a sorcerer in ogun st.
Ive had my friend throw himself on the ground violently to vomit stone at a crusade, you could as well call it a trick too.
Amongst many others. Im sorry ive seen far too much to just close my eyes to the supernatural

dalaman:
James Randi has a million dollar challanged for any one that has supernatural abilities to go display it and win under a controlled environment. Many people with so called supernatural abilities attempted but they all failed. The tricks they used were all exposed.

Dont know what exactly you mean by this, buh No one has or has claimed supernatural powers.
No pastor has a power of his own, supernatural powers come from sources and and agreement between a vessel and its manifestation. Miracles done in church are not by the pastor but from God. So going to put God to test is contrary to scriptures and is as stup1d as you and those ochestrating it.

dalaman:
I rather believe the words of some of the world renowned magicians that have made millions of dollars and fame performing magic than the words of a gullible sheeple like you that has no idea of how tricks are used to beguile the public.

Is it about the money or about whats really involved?. Upon the goat trick i mentioned earlier, i told my manager that the sorcerer could make cool cash performing for people. Dont know if hes ever thought about it.

Isnt it hypocrisy to believe magical acts without substantial explanation and discard the supernatural you cant really explain.
Ive done my research, most likely more than you and your fellows that spew crap, i used to be a fan of chrisangel, I read probably all the articles on secrets-explained.com. And I could decipher that there is a far difference between the truth and what they want us to know. All you can do is to make suggestions upon suggestions of how its made up.

Once again, hows it going over there in the light.

JuJu is actually knowledge. Knowledge of the supernatural.
Ive seen things in my life that just dosent add up rationally. Ive heard unexplained voices. Ive practically felt the presence of fear.
All these Mostly in villages where i had programs.
And so its very odd to me when someone denies the presence of the supernatural.

None of these above explanations did it for me. Its difficult to imagine that such boys are learned in physics and mathematics coupled with so much precision.
That hole seems too small for a human to put and withdraw legs at will.

Chizzled06:
Are you being serious? Cosmology? Origin of species?

How do they discredit the Bible

Chizzled06:
Lol. In the words of Jefferson, "I am a sect by myself, as far as I know."

Seems we have someone who knows that atheism is a scam.
A man from an unknown sect.

Chizzled06:
That 'claim' was an explanation of Deism, a belief that most God-believing scientists hold.

Sorry, by 'fine tuning of the universe' what exactly do you mean? The fact that less than 0.01% of the observable universe is habitable by living organisms?

No, but the fact that there is a settled calm and order. Going by your logic, i expect the universe to be chaos, including our extraordinarily perfect earth.

Chizzled06:
Whoever mentioned atheism?

Which one you dey, abi u nor get name

Chizzled06:
But you'll find that scientists that believe in a God usually conceive a creator at the inception of the universe, who has had no further imput after the Laws of Nature were put in place.

This is a serious unsubstantiated claim.
You mind explaining the finetuning of the universe, if you answer is "random processes", dont even bother.