₦airaland Forum

This looks like a mischevious and obvious question, but on closer examination in is a profound thought provoking question.

Now we in the third world pray so many times a day.
We wake up early in the morning and offer prayer before we leave for work or school, we pray before we start work or school, we pray before each meal, we pray before the start of any event and at the end. Finally, we pray before we hit the pillow at nights. And most of us do that day in day out for decades on end.

In contrast, compare the first world. They do very little daily praying. In fact i had never seen the usual lets close our eyes and pray to Jesus or mohammed before the start or close of any social event in america or europe. In fact during the Last US elections i did not hear a single prayer. Even when Obama won, He did not start a long prayer session and attribute his victory to God, he attributed it to the american people. Back here, the winner would call long prayer session after rigging his way to power by killing, and stealing and then attribute his victory to God, supported by the holiest pastor and imam in the land.

So what have we gained as a people with all these prayers? All the indices for development are about the poorest in the world, our people live in abject poverty, while the chinese wo do not pray wants to go to the moon. The feed and cloth us now anyway.

So should we not stop praying and start thinking and working for prosperity?

I feel you; I was in your position about 25 yrs ago, while I was still in secondary school. The whole of the Christian doctrine started breaking down, the more I tried to apply sense and reason to it.
I am sure you are trying to do the same and apply reason to some aspect of your faith, I suspect you are still an inquisitive teenager because the older you are the more difficult it is to let go of age long beliefs and habits.
Do not let anyone make you feel guilty about clapping in church, in fact I can say you are gradually coming unto enlightenment. Other Christians would threaten you with fire and brimstone, others would label you’re a backslider, do mot mind them.
I can tell you than clapping for God or Jesus is a relatively new phenomenon in Christianity. And I think it is as a result of the African influence on Christianity, others are night vigils, deliverance, shouting and dancing oneself into a trance, etc., theses are vestiges of our animist religious practices, which we have practiced for generations.
Clapping for God or any other prophet was not found anywhere in the old testament, even when God interacted with the Israelites on mount Sinai, they did not clap for God, no body clapped for Abraham, Moses , Isaiah, etc. Even when Jesus was alive, nobody clapped for him after each miracle, not one were his disciples required to clap for him.
Clapping as per applause was reserved for musicians, magicians and performers who entertained the crowd and the crowd applause to show appreciation in medieval Europe, clapping was never associated with religious worship.
Christianity established as a formal religion in about the second century A.D. existed as a monolithic entity as the Catholic Church until sometimes in the 13th or 14th century A.D. when the protestants protesting some practices in church broke away, clapping was not an issue in contention. The protestants (the Anglicans, the Methodists, the Lutherans, etc. ) did not introduce clapping as mandatory for salvation.
It was when the Blacks in the U.S adopted Christianity to their native practices that clapping, shouting, soul music, enter into Christianity. And when this version (Pentecostalism) entered into Africa, we added core African practices of entering into trance, heavy drumming, mid night deliverances, divination, and HEAVY CLAPPING into the mix. So in effect we are still practicing our ancient religious rites under the guise of Christianity.

Before we attempt to answer the question of the reality of mammy water or mermaid, we should first agree on what a mammy water is.

Is mammy water a spirit being?
is it a physical animal.
Do they have societies, culture, cities, etc?
Do they possess lungs or gills?

Now having asked those questions, i can authoritatively affirm mermaid to be a myth, a myth i suspect was borrowed form the europeans like every other aspects of our lives, like religion, alphabet, urbanization, etc. I doubt we have stories of mermaids in our pre colonial history.

There are many myths from Europe and the middle east about half animal and have human creatures, we have centaurs (half human/half bull), Sphinx (half human/half lion), there are even half human/half snake creatures. So naturally mermaid myths are popular with people living nears rivers in Nigeria.

okeyz:
Hi guys ,i have been following this thread and i want to say here that mermaid really do exist !!!.
i have 3 personal experinces to tell ,i will say one here and the rest later

1.In 1998 ,in victoria island around november,a fisherman mistakenly caught a mermaid under the bridge that links ikoyi with victoria island at ozumba mbadiwe street.

he spread the net at night only to come in the morning around 11.00 to check on what he has caught, indeed he caught alot of fish and more interesting was that he caught a very big fish because he saw only the tail end of only the mermaid, the body was covered with smaller fishes and weeds from the lagoon.

on close examination he found that the "big fish" was indeed a MERMAID!!!
he raised an alarm that could be heard as far as ajah ! and before u could say what the hell! people started gathering ,there was pandemonium everywhere and it caused a heavy traffick that lasted for 5 hours!.

people were coming down from there vehicles to have a glimpse of this creature,meen i tell u if u see this thing u will have a mixture of fear and attraction!

fear that this thing is not human but yet appears to have both human and a glittering fish tail for legs and attraction that the creature remains a mystery that makes you want to discover more about it.

all the drawings of the mermaid having a long hair ,fish tail and feminine are all true!

back to my story,people made frantic efforts to get the NTA to view the creature,some suggest that it should be taking to the school of oceanography,but the fisherman begged them that it should be returned back to the lagoon where it came from as he is afraid of a reprisal attack from the mermaids family,since he is a fisherman and fishing is what he and his family does for a living ,he and some other fishermen then used long canoe paddles to push the mermaid back into the lagoon and immediately it slipped into the water it regaind its strenght and went deep into the lagoon with speed. in a flash!

when this mermaid was brought out it was covering her face because of the sun and it was very weak to move because the sun was kind of draining her strenght,, ,,,,,

its something that happens maybe once in a lifetime and i was once a doubting thomas when it comes to the supernatural but seeing what i saw that november 1998,i ve stopped going to lagoons alone not to talk of bar beach,if i see any beautiful babe with long flowing hair ,i take to my heels!!!

If you are doubting if these things exist go to those fishermen at the lagoon between ikoyi and v.i and ask them ,they are in good postion to tell u

About this story, it is full of contradictions.
I lived in V/I in 1998, opposite the Bar Beach and i did not hear your story. Also your wrote in narratives (the trick often employed in religious sacred books) and not in first person account as a witness. Also if you shout from falomo bridge, you will not be heard in 1004 not to talk of Ajah.

Of those talking about mermaids living in Bar Beach, when we lost our house in 2001. I was homeless for 2 years and lots of time i slept on the beach, sometime in front of the waves under the thatched sheds, and i did not see or hear of any mammy water. Also then the beach was active for 24hrs, you have Christians praying all night in front of the waves, you have Ashewos plying their trade in the beach and the bars were opened all night and no body has seen or heard of mermaids. Ditto for Alpha beach, Eleko beach and other beaches. So where are the mermaids.

from your highlighted comment above, it is not compulsory to worship, obey or even praise God if it is not your wish to do so. if you do see him as a dictator, good for you.

kiba, our neurons operate at different frequencies, so i do not expect us to view things the same way. To me this whole idea about worship and fear of God seems silly. Even as a kid, i found reminding God how powerful and great he is everyday, sometimes many times an hour, simply irrational. It reminds me of a great pharaoh or Caesar who needs ego massaging daily to keep himself happy, So you have to blow trumpet, tell him he is the mighty conqueror of all the nations and tremble at his feet, submitting your life to his mercy.

Also I have often wonder why we have to Fear and practically dread "our loving God" because of the harm he promises to unleash on us in this life and the next, if we do not obey. I feel a loving God should be Loved not feared. Same way as your father or a leader. A feared leader is not a good leader.

That is they way my stupid, queer mind works. It is not as sane as privileged people like you.

huxley:
Can any of them show any evidence for what they claim? Take for instance, the biblical claim of Adam&Eve, Eden, Flood, etc. Are there any evidence for these events?

My friend Huxley, how are you doing, and how is your crusade going?

Now let me answer your above question.

Yes, there are some evidence of some of the stories, with exaggerations of course. although i have not been able to find any evidence for the Adan, Eve and Eden Stories, i know that the story is from Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian and Mesopotamian origin. Although each version is slightly different from the others. Also the names of the characters and places differ from place to place.

But the flood story has a base in a flood that scholars believed occurred in southern Mesopotamia in approximately 2900 B.C. The story is strikingly similar to the EPIC OF GILGAMESH, and i believe Jewish writers copied it from there, since it was a popular subject of literature around the period.

Read the Epic of Gilgamesh, it is more detailed than the Noah,s story.

Keba,

Religion is not supposed to make sense, or else the very essence of religion itself would be defeated. You are to accept all the doctrines as a matter of FAITH.

The way you view a Hindu worshiping a cow and washing his sins in the River Ganges is the same way he see you worshiping a man undergoing capital punishment (crucifixion), with blood dripping all over his body, and washing away of sins with spiritual or real blood.

Also not all religions are absolute monarchy in Nature (God the supreme ruler, dictating his commands, which must be obeyed and having his ego continually massaged by praising him constantly and generally ernexisting just to make him happy.

Some eastern religions has Gods that do not demand to be worshiped but only demand you find the right path to enlightenment and happiness.

So please do not Judge others based on your own beliefs and rules.

Orikinla,
God will never remove from your fountain of knowledge. That is what i have been trying to tell them, it is not Ijaw against hausa or Yoruba against Igbo. The real parasites are the few oppressive elite, hausa, yoruba or Niger deltan, who want his children yet unborn to be slave masters of the others. (sometimes of even his blood brothers)

@ Nigeria1,,

I never said we should go to war, i was only emphasizing how a country can acquire land. Nigeria cannot afford to fight a war right now, we are too internally unstable.

Deepzone,
We did not try TRUE FEDERATION for 48 years, we tried true federation for about 6 years and operated TRUE UNITATION for 42 years.

Blackcat,

Please tell me how splitting into six countries would solve our problems. How is it going to be better than operating a TRUE FEDERATION, composed of six regions controlling their resources and their destinies, while the center control defense, foreign affairs and monetary policies.

Nigeria1;;:
wirinet , do you want the united nation, to use our great grand father story which they claim bakassi is part of nigeria or use international law. o buy a compass.

how many of our grand father would nigeria carry to court. the people are nigerian but the land falls into cameroon. So because yorubas lives in republic of benin, is that also part of nigeria.

The international court operates like a regular court, especially in land disputes. It takes evidence according to the historical background of the land in dispute.

Now the UN cannot use a compass and a map to determine whether Alaska belongs to USA or Canada.

Also if you are strong enough you can forcefully take over another country and there is nothing the UN can do.

Blackcat

Blackcat:
Thats not true Austria is a tiny winny country but well respected. Splitting up will help this country enormously ( "economically, socially and militarily".

Nigeria is by no means "an active player in the world" .

With these numbers below, there will always be disunity and without unity we are nothing.


"144 + million citizens
250 + languages
over 1000 dialects"


My dear, quality is always better than quantity.

The example you used (Austria) is a poor example for you and a good example to buttress my point.
Austria is one of the "weak States" in Europe compared to bigger and more populous neighbours e.g Germany, Britain and France. During the second world war Austria was taken by Germany without even a fight.

Imagine how we will fare if we split up and all our surrounding Franc-Phone countries should integrate (they already have a common currency), couple with the help of a foreign power (France), we will be sitting ducks.

Even if we split to individual clans, the problems will still be there as long as we do not have Justice and fairplay. The main cause of conflict in the world is not Race, tribe or gender. It is Ignorance, injustice and poverty, as a result of oppression by a powerful few.

Nigeria1,,
Get it into your head, this is post Berlin 1886, the world court cannot just take a compass and a Map and decide which country belongs to where. The main point of the Bakassi Dispute was the Anglo German agreement

Blackcat:
144 + million citizens
250 + languages
over 1000 dialects

I think it's about time Nigeria splits up

Splitting up is not an option. If we split up, we will pulverized economically, socially and militarily. In todays world you need to be big to be an active player in the world. See Europe and China. The little influence and respect the "Green Pkali" still has is because of our size and oil (of course).

The main problem we have is that of the oppressive privileged few against the very poor masses of the population

Nigeria1,,

You are so obsessed with this your maps, that you can use it to perform magic. Am i am talking about magic that even great patriotic Yoruba leaders of the past had not been able to perform. You draw a line perpendicular to the furthest point of Ondo and claim any thing left of your imaginary line to Lome belongs to Ondo State. Then you claim that Bonga field, which according to your Map is 80 miles from the most eastern part of Ondo, belongs to Ondo rather than Bayelsa which is only 20 miles from from the fields, bypassing Edo and even Delta.

I am sure this must be a divine revelation because the government of Nigeria, which had been ruled by the Hausa in collaboration with your kinsmen had not realized their oil wealth for the past 48 years. All the Yoruba ministers of petroleum we have had gave out all your Oil fields. The most puzzling thing is that you gave all the oil blocks to Ondo, you did even dash Ogun or Lagos a Little.

To buttress your twisted logic, you go on to rewrite history and give us the most absurd information that The UNITED NATION (UN) uses this nautical miles to tell where your country ends. This is the reason why BAKASSI IS NOT IN NIGERIA BUT CAMERRON. bakassi falls into Camerron nautical miles zone..

Are you telling us that the UN used your Maps to tell which country the Bakassi people belong to? Are you saying that Senator Ita-Giwa and her people are now "Mammy Water" and live in the middle of the Atlantic ocean in order to conform to your Nautical miles.

From Information available Bakassi was handed over to the Cameroons based on an Anglo-German agreement entered into during the colonial period, and Britain decided to hand over some part of Nigeria and southern Cameroon to Germany. And also on the supposed ceding of the Island by Gowon during the War. So also Get your information correct and stop making assumptions to conform to your theory.

I am happy that even most Yorubas do not see the sense in your stupid assertions.

Nigeria1,,

I do not know if you are one Nigeria1(without the ,,) that tries to convince us that he could count the population of each village in Nigeria from satellite photos, but i found that guy interesting and very well informed and educated.

this Nigeria1,, simply defies logic, and i am glad that this is not how majority of my Yoruba brothers think.

Now where do i start dispelling your preposterous suppositions.

Let let me give you a brief lecture of what a viable political/economic entity is. All political entities are formed as a result of economic viability, most villages and towns of ancient Yoruba land was form principally on the basis of agricultural produce with which they feed themselves and trade with neighbours, so gradually the town grew out of agricultural prosperity.

Also the Niger Delta, whose Oil you are desperate to have were faring extremely well before the discovery of oil, they developed their political entities (villages and towns) through fishing, timber and trade with the Europeans. We did not ask for produce from Yoruba Land.

Now enter oil, and you people suddenly realized that the 50% derivation you enjoyed should not apply to oil (the excuse then was money to prosecute the war), and for over 20 years Niger Delta got zero derivation. It then became fashionable to create as many political entities as much a possible, many of them unviable, The motivation was to corner as much of the National Cake as much as possible. So now we have 36 states ans 774 local govt areas and counting.

Now i am not against creation of local Govt and states, if it is economical and the political entity is self sustaining.

And i would say that it is a shame that 40 million Yorubas (according to you) need to GET money from oil to survive with your superior manpower (remember Japan's only resource is its manpower).


You said that abacha that agree to 13%, So that he could become life president of Nigeria at that time. Wow that is the fable of the Century. Abacha did not need to pacify anybody, less the Niger Delta. He would have had his way without the support of anybody. ( if he could shun the almighty Yorubas, then who are the puny Niger Deltans.)

The 19 state of the north got less than the 6 state of the south south. there is something wrong. you can not have disparity in nigeria

Was that statement ment to pitch the North against the Niger Delta? Because honestly, the north is more sympathetic to our plight that most Yoruba Leaders. So you solution should be for the North and West join hands to invade the deltas.

Let tell ourself the truth. Most of Nigeria oil are off the coast of their land. I do not think we produce 25% on their land. Look my brother when you draw the map of river state, do you also include the altantic ocean as part of river state.

So you are waking a dead horse, the issue you raise died a Natural death at the Supreme Court, Except you want to challenge the Supreme court again with your onshore/offshore dichotomy argument.
Furthermore, you should know that Nigeria is made up of it constituent parts (states), without the states there would be no Nigeria. Maybe we should situate all the offshore oil rigs in Lagos State to satisfy you.

My African brothers MOVE ON!!. Slavery was in the past, leave the past and embrace the future. That is what Obama symbolizes, he is encouraging us to compete on a level playing field with everybody else.

beninman, Since you like reading history, then you will know that no group of people escaped slavery at one time or the order, even from fellow african tribes before the advent of the Europeans. If you are so obsessed with reparation, what do you want indigenous American Indians and Australian Aborigines to do, since they were almost decimated by the Europeans. What about the Jews as i had mentioned earlier, who were either held in slavery or colonized by every Superpower the world has had.

Please my fellow Black brothers Move ahead into the 21st century and not looking back at the 17th century

I wish we (black people) move on with our lives and stop blaming all our backwardness on slavery, the world is now a global village. If you have skills you will be demanded by every country in the world. So why do not improve ourselves through improving our educational institutions.

We are to much in a hurry to blame our inadequacies on some flimsy excuse, if it is not home trouble today, it will be generational curses tomorrow, then it will be slavery and also colonialization would be thrown in.

There is hardly any group of people that did not experience slavery,
The Jews were slaves to the Egyptians but the Jews do not ask for reparations from the egyptians.
The Britons and the french (Gaul) were slaves to the romans
Even in Africa, some tribes were slaves to the Binis, the Oyos, etc., are we all going to get reparations from each other.

Slavery is a sad part of human history we must try to forget, and more away from.
I believe all these talk about reparation is holding on unto the past

The ten commandments were handed over to the isrealites on mount Sinai by God himself, speaking directly to them. But God always allow for exceptions, because he also tells them to do things opposite to the commandments or refuses to punish his favourite persons if they break the commandments.
That is why I ask if the commandments were necessary at all.

The commandments;

I Thou shall have no other Gods before me.
Except you divide the Gods into three - the father, the son and the holy spirit, then you can worship the three God as one but you must worship the son more and equate him with almighty God. Also you can add Mother of God and saints as you deem it fit.

2. Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Except, the graven image is a Roman Cross with which God the son was crucified, or an Ark of the tabernacle made of wood according to Gods specifications, or of images of Jesus on the cross, or images of Mary and Nativity. And any other image God commands to be worshiped.

3. Thou shall not bow down thyself to them or serve them.
Except all the images in the second commandment.

4. Thou shall not take the name of the lord thy God in vain.
Except in a court or law, or by pastors claiming to see and talk to God daily and by Christians generally when faced with a difficult situation.

5. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Except, the Sabbath day is no more the original sabbath day ordained by God, but has been shifted to the day romans dedicate to the sun (sunday), and even then apart from going to church, nobody keeps the day holy.

6. Honour thy Father and Mother.
Except, they are of different religion from the religion of the Bible, then you can dishonour or even kill them.

7. Thy shall not kill.
Except they are unbelievers, then they are not worthy of living. Even if they are believers you can kill them as a sacrifice to god.

8. Thou shall not commit adultery.
Except, You are a man. A man can have multiple wives and concubines. It is a married woman that is forbidden from sleeping with another man.

9. Thou shall not steal.
Except God commands you to steal land from unbelievers.


Also you will notice that the first act of moses after coming down with the Tablets (commandments) was to command the Sons of levi to slaughter every other man in the camp, numbering about 3,000 men just because they disobeyed God.

Huxley,
You are doing a great job forcing people to use their Neo-cortex more constructively, most people are just damn intellectually lazy, they want to be spoon fed with information and told how to live their lives.

Morality is a set of codes and customs adopted and agreed upon by either the majority of a society's population or by a few people who are custodians of that society. Morality is different from society to society and sometime between clans. Morality is often integrated with the religious belief of a people.

There is no universal morality but Morality usually evolves, to set the society on the path of progress. Retrogressive morals always lead to a retrogressive society and as time goes by, societies learn to change their morals to conform to their development ideals.

For example, it is morally alright for the Jews to kill and steal for from their enemies during difficult time, but is against God to kill and still from a fellow Jew. (Moses killing an Egyptian was not even significant).

As of slavery, it is only in modern times that slavery is becoming immoral, all great biblical men of had slaves and concubines(sex slave), and it was not a sin then. Also some societies allow marriage between close relatives like uncles, cousins and nieces, while it is morally wrong in some. Some can marry two sisters also (Jacob)

The one wife one husband rule was a European moral, because stealing of women by the powerful few was making the society unstable (remember the Trojan war was over a woman). The Jews of the Bible were allowed to marry as many women as you can afford.

OLAADEGBU,

Honestly i do not know what you are trying to achieve, I do not even understand what your postulations are. You said Charles Darwin had no clue as to how life started and his students today still don't know where the information in the DNA came from, Which is a complete farse.

We (evolutionists) have a good idea of how life started and understand how the information in the DNA is stored, so much so that we can alter deliberately properties of an organism by altering the matching protein in its DNA strand. ( i hope you are not munching on Genetically modified crops right now)

If you want me to explain what DNA is, i would gladly do, but i doubt you will understand. You will only parrot ad infinitum the primitive man's creed of "Where did it come from or how did that start" until i say i do not know, then you will jump in and say all you people are wrong and stupid all along, because you and your likes have a special knowledge that all things are created and designed by God. So you are the intelligent ones, while we including charles Darwins are the fools for refusing to see reason.

You religionists have not contributed anything to the progress of humanity or the earth, you do no research because you believed all the research you need in in your holy books. You wait for scientist to dedicate their lives to finding out the essence of nature and how it can benefit humanity at the detriment of their own comfort and families. At the end of it, you people will then jump in and look at loop holes and exaggerate little controversies, but you people will gladly use the result of scientific discoveries without quarrel. You quarrel with science but you use computers, T.Vs, Mobile phones. You get sick and you use scientific equipments based on scientific principles you ridicule.

I would have love to learn something new from you people on science but all your posts and links teach nothing. Your main postulation that every mystery that is not fully understood is a proof of God, had been with us since the dawn of history by primitive man. Even today a primitive brute living in the Amazon has the same "knowledge" and views you hold. It took courage, persecution and perseverance for a few men to take us away from where you are trying to take us back to.

OLAADEGBU

What an ingenious equation, i will nominate you for the next Nobel price in Biology, You are more Knowledgeable than Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein put together. It is an honour talking to such scientific genius like yourself.

morpheus24:
Wirinet

But why see this as a problem in the species rather than an attribute that has differentiated us from all other living things. This same "inability" has been the driving force that has sustained us so long. Religion is accepting an end to this existence in an effort to participate in a new one. Science has answered many questions that have been able to allow us not to meet that inevitable end prematurely in many instances.

Many peoples lives have been prolonged because science has refused to accept the notion that our destiny is the hands of a divine plan. The evolution of our minds has been a remarkable step in just a short span of time and the abilities of the brain have barely been tapped into or studied.

I understand the obsession of many societies in trying to deal with Life and death but I am curious to know why this very attribute or "mutation" or what ever you want to call it is a problem. If all humans simply believe death is the end then what? What incentive is there to want to discover more. What purpose would there be to want to do this if not mere curiousity.The very "problem" that is inherent in our species is what is taking us to greater heights and religion for better or worse is an ingredient that makes up that mutation of the mind or so i call it.

I do not understand the first part of your post, but one think i can tell you is that YOUR DESTINY IS IN YOUR HANDS. All individuals and societies that are progressing today are those that take their destinies into their hands. Religion led Europe into the dark ages, they were only able to progress after they started questioning religion.

Believing death is the end would make up make the best of the little time we have on earth here. It will make us appreciate each day we live because it would be lost forever. Each life would learn to make its mark with this one chance at life.

We do not need the incentive of everlasting enjoyment to live a fulfilled life on earth, Living right and positively impacting our offspings, families and society is enough incentive.

Huxley,
I have never read any of Richard Dawkins book, i will not mind you sending me one.

You cannot blame people here for wearing religion on their sleeves, it is due to the hopeless condition in which we live due to poverty, injustice and oppression. People need hope, any kind of hope. It also makes injustice and oppression more bearable by promising eternal punishment for your oppressors since you feel powerless against them

KunleOshob:
Now that our resident atheist have mentioned DNA which is scientifically proven, do you know that DNA is one of the scientific evidence of the existence of a creator? And if there is a creator, he must have created us for a purpose. According to scientist (who are still trying to unravel the complexity of the DNA) the DNA is definitely a written language just like a language used in writing softwares for our computers, the only differences is that it is far more advanced and the information it carries is infinite. According to scientist accidents like this don't happen in nature, it was definitely written by a highly intelligent and advanced being. All of the DNA in an adult human body could fit inside one ice cube, but if unwound, stretched out and joined end to end, it would reach from the earth to the sun and back again more than 400 times. Scientists estimate that they could fill a 1,000-volume encyclopedia with the coded instructions in the DNA of a single human cell if the instructions could be translated to English.

You can check out this link to know more about DNA and why it proves the existence of a supreme being. http://s8int.com/dna1.html

Kunle

You do the samething all religious fanatics trying to debunk proven scientific facts do, i call it intellectual scavenging. You scavenge for information on the web to attack evolution without having an idea of what the subject matter is. You just lift false information and suppositions.

Do you know what DNA is and what the constituents are?
First, it is not a language like a computer software, a computer software is binary (on and off), DNA code is made up of four different proteins arranged in an infinite number of combinations.

Scientists are not trying to unravel, the complexity of the DNA, the already have. The complete Human Genome was completed about 5 years ago.
You religionists are damn parasitic in nature, you wait for scientist to do decade of hard work, when they make important discoveries, you will come along and claim credit, that it support your own postulations as contained in your holy book. Now you are claiming DNA. Will you people ever do any hard work of your own?

huxley:
Wirinet,

Awesome story and also inspirational. You a fan of Carl Sagan? He was a great educator. If only I could have 1% of his abilities. I just order one of his books (Demon haunted World) and can't wait to read it.

Whereabouts in the world are you based?

Well i regard myself as a Saganite, I adore Carl Sagan. I have a several books by Carl Sagan, but my favourite is Dragons of Eden, It follows the evolutionary progress of intelligence, it is brilliant. Read it and it will blow your mind

I am Based in Lagos, Nigeria

Morpheus
I am very happy we are able to exchange thoughts and ideas. I am impressed by your assessments of life and its meaning, it makes me appreciate the time i spend on Nairaland, to know that i can impact knowledge on other and at the same time learn from others.

Yes the purpose of life is to survive and survive well. That purpose in entrenched in the DNA, and once the DNA has learnt to duplicate, it does all it can to ensure continuity of the duplication process. Then the individual's (be it plant or animal) purpose is to make sure it also duplicates and propagate its genes. Also a family/ society/race makes sure it survives by duplication although on a more complex level.

But one problem the homo species have had from time immemorial is the inability to accept an end to its existence (death).
We love the idea of existing forever, ancient societies went to great lengths and ceremonies to preserve the dead. Egyptians built great pyramids and got buried with lots of valuables and slaves, so that kings can live as kings in the "after Life", so it was with all ancient civilization.
So societies say you would come back as another person or another animal.

But science tells us that anything that is created will eventually be destroyed. The Sun and the earth will be destroyed when the fuel driving the sun burns out in the next 5 billion or so years. Our Galaxy will eventually be destroyed. The universe also will one day be destroyed. So nothing and i say nothing can last forever and homo sapiens sapiens better come to terms with that reality, the sooner the better for us.

But let me add that the material for making a living thing is not destroyed with the death of the individual, it is only recycled. The body of a person is eaten byplants, bacteria, ants, worms, which in turn is eaten by goats,birds, fish, etc, which is eventually eaten back by man.

OLAADEGBU

You are back, I am sure you have search through all the search engines to find support for your attack on Evolution as usual, you do not even add any information of your own anymore, you just copy and paste links. Anyway i will look at the link later

Huxley

Thanks for you appreciation, i appreciate it more.

I left Christianity, because the whole concept did not make sense to me. I was born with a very inquisitive mind, and i was not comfortable with the "attribute any thing you do not understand (mystery) to God" approach as adopted by man since the dawn of history, even as a kid. I went out of my way to find the essence of things.

By 15 i had studied astronomy and Understand exactly what the sun, galaxy and the observable universe is made up of.

I used to Watch Carl Sagan's program (The Cosmos) in the early 80's and watched it over and over again.

After that I wanted to Know what the term "God" really means, is it a man/ woman/ thing/spirit, what is a spirit?. So I read extensively on comparative religion and Spiritualism. I read Buddhism, Confusionism, Islam, etc. i also practice spiritualism like astral travel, Clairvoyance, etc. At the end of the day i did not see the use. I also went into the extensive study of Biblical history.

After that then i went searching for the answer to the ultimate question What is Life and What is the purpose of Life.
That is why i tell you that once you leave your religion, your life would seem purposeless and meaningless, and the feeling is terrible. I was disoriented in my teen years.

This took me to study Evolution and Geology and physics. I bought and read every book i could find on evolution and the evolutionary path of Man.

It was not until i was in my thirties before i was able to answer the ultimate question and found the meaning and purpose of life. And i have been living joyfully since then.

About the meaning and purpose of life.
Science does not tell us what life is, much less the purpose. Biology only tries to describe the properties of Life, and is very silent on the purpose. Religion comes in and tries to fill the Gap, but does a horrible Job of it, By telling you that the purpose of life is to go to heaven and worship God forever (torture to me, i would say). It is only a concise and deep understanding of evolution that can answer the ultimate question.

Now about the comment of Jesus destroying the temple and why it was included in the bible, you have to read Biblical History. it will tell you why the early councils added certain phrases or books and why they removed others. The addition of the Trinity clause was very incisive and interesting, it was finally decided by putting the matter to vote in one of the councils of Rome. this was because Judaism believes in one God while Roman religion believes in three Gods, and since the new religion (Christianity) is a combination of the two a compromise had to be reached.

Huxley,

You are one aggressive dude, well i feel you. I just advice you to take it slowly and gradually.

Please ask my fellow Christian how they would feel, if the jews came to their land and claim their God had given the land to them and kill all their Men, children, women, goats and lizard. Would you be ever disposed to worshiping such God, and accepting your conquerors are favoured by That God than you?

How do you expect the Palestinians to worship the God of their enemy, Should that God not act as a Peace Keeper and bring the two people together?

huxley:
Look at Jesus's technique;


"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in,

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these things ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, " (Matthew 23:13, 23:23-26)

Huxley, these quotes are brilliant, it is incredible that these quotes were directed at so called spiritual leaders of two thousand years ago. You would think that it is spoken directly to our present day Pastors, G.O's, Evangelists, Reverend's etc.

Huxley, although i have left Christianity a long time ago, that does not mean i do not appreciate the finer points of Christianity or of the personality of Jesus Christ.

Christ's method of changing people's views were exemplary and non comfrontational.

1. The supreme authority of the time was Caesar and Christ never attacked or confronted Caesar.
2. Christ conformed to the Judaism he met and did not attack any of the prophets in the Torah.
3. Christ was able to turn over the tables at the temple without getting into trouble with the temple priest because it was against Judaism to trade in the temple ( because it is a sacred place)
4. That Christ was going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days is not confrontational and besides it seems silly to me. I wonder why Bible writer added that bit.
5. Jesus Christ called the people Hypocrites because that is the truth, Just like Nigerian Christian leaders. He attacked the persons and not their beliefs.

Jesus cooperated more with his opponents, His best friends were not followers, he eat and slept in non believer's house (opponents).

I hope you appreciate my arguments.

Huxley,
I still believe firmly, that other people's views, ideas and culture should be respected. And i say if you do not then you are making the same religious fundamentalists are doing, putting yourself on a higher moral, social or intellectual pedestal than your audience. It does not work that way.

Even in the biblical story of Jesus, he did not confront the people or the establishment, he worked within it. He only brough together people of like minds to propagate his views. Same goes for Mohammad, he did not confront Christianity and Judaism that was already establish, he worked within it.

They way to achieve anything is not through your confrontational attitude, you will only breed only anger, resistance and resentment. To make any impact you will need to institutionalize your methods.
By attacking other people's beliefs You are not impacting any knowledge, and you will not gain anything.

As i always say, you should concentrate more educating people about your beliefs and views than concentrating on attacking that of others. Those that would listen would listen and there is nothing you can do for those that will not listen. Even in the scientific community attacking the views of others without expounding your own is frowned at.

Also, it is not possible for people to throw away what they believe from childhood just like that, because Huxley said so. Their lives/ thoughts/dress code/food revolves around their religion, if you take that away without substituting it with an alternative, they would become disoriented, which would be a worse position than when they were a religious fanatic, you might as well kill the person.

Religion is like a very addictive drug, if you suddenly withdraw a drug from someone who has been addicted since childhood, you will kill the individual. You can only withdraw the drug by substituting it with a less harmful drug, before gradually withdrawing it altogether. It takes time, patience and perseverance.

Let me give you an example.

Instead of attacking Pataki, Correct the wrong impression he has about moses writing the book of Genesis, and encourage him to read biblical history. The Author of the book of Genesis (or any other book for that matter is UNKNOWN). Furthermore according to critical analysis, the book of genesis could not have been written by one author due to at least three different writing styles contained in genesis. Also if moses was the author of Genesis, he could not have recorded his own death and post death events.

So you try to educate

Huxley,
I really appreciate your views, but you have to learn to accommodate others who do not necessarily share your views. You should also learn social evolution apart from biological evolutions.

All societies starts out with Animism, which involves human sacrifice and all. It is after societal advancement that a few people are able to gradually lead people away from such practices. And these people did not change their societies by being to aggressive, confrontational or arrogant, and they still suffered a lot of persecution. Eg Copernicus, Galileo, etc.
Galileo was only pardoned by the Catholic church less than 10 years ago for heresy ( saying that the earth was a sphere and it revolves around the sun and not the other way as divinely ordained by the church).

I do not support sacrifices and killing of twins, but every society including European, Arabic and even Jewish (Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son to God) practice human sacrifice at some time. It is through Education and Reason that these practices were stopped.

Also because we are still backward is a lot of are practices due to ignorance and high level of illiteracy, but changing the society should be approached systematically or else you will not achieve anything but hated.

You must learn to understand and appreciate other people's beliefs before you can even attempt to change them. The European had a very difficult time converting our people, also the Arabs had to do it by force. People do not change their established beliefs easily. I am sure it took a lot from you before you could leave Christianity.

So have patience, people will eventually change when they realize that their destiny is in their hands and not in the Hands of any God/spirit/demon/angels.

Where is Europe that formulated, propagated and died for Christianity today, they have moved on.
We will get there, It is only a matter of time