₦airaland Forum

@linxon
I have enjoyed your posts and arguments in the past even if i do not agree with some of of them, it gets me thinking. But I do not agree with your last response to kobojunkie's comments, it is beneath you. Kobojunkie is a highly respected Nairalander and have made valuable comments on this forum.
If Kobojunkie said a huge majority of the PHDs, Professors and advanced degree holders we have in that country obtained their degrees outside the shores of the country, he is not exactly too far from the truth, he only exaggerated a bit. He should have said " a lot of the PHDs, Professors and advanced degree holders we have in that country obtained their degrees outside the shores of the country" and not a huge majority. Then i am sure you would not argue with that as I am sure you are one of the lot, and a huge majority of your Nigerian friends also fall into that category.

Also kobojunkie never said Nigeria has been independent for 49 years, he was asking what your comment on the Niger Delta has to do current situation in Nigeria and the trend of the last 40 years. ( although I feel a bit uncomfortable with kobojunkie's use of "that country" to designate his country of origin)

So your assertion of " you are nowhere near my level" is totally uncalled for.

I an sorry to say that you argument does not hold water and the sooner we all realize the truth the better for us.

Nigeria has, Land, agricultural friendly climate, man-power, mineral resources, potential tourist attractions e.t.c All these in relatively large amounts compared to even some developed coutries of the world, this is what gives it the potential to be powerful. USA for example is dependent on the imports from other countries which is why the financial crisis that started in the USA has spread to the rest of the world because the demand from the major importers has dropped.

I am trying to correct the above impressions held by you and our government.

Countries like England USA fought wars to claim land (history of England and scotland, Texas and mexico wars to claim land, how the man power from the chinese migrant is a vital part of the development of USA e.t.c Even Isreal and palestine were still at it of recent) so don't tell me population or possession of vast Land is not relevant to build-up of power.

People fought to claim land then because land because the economy then was land based - agriculture and mining. So the richest nations were the ones with the largest land (especially fertile land with mineral deposits) and the richest people were the landlords. But i wonder why most people (including our governments) fail to realize that things have changed.

Why do you think that wars are not fought for territory anymore, it is because land size does not matter much anymore.
A good example is Isreal, their land mass is smaller than most states of Nigeria and is mostly desert couple witha population of about 5 million. But the the state of Israel produces over 50 times what we could produce. Also Switzerland - a mainly rocky mountainous landlocked country with horrible weather and a tiny population to match, is much more developed than us with all our so called resources.


From the beginning of the 20th century Human Resources became the wealth of nations and not Land, and not even population per Se, but highly skilled workers in both technological and managerial sectors. US on realizing this fact encouraged and poached skilled workers from Germany, Israel, Europe, Asia, etc. Even today the western nations are bleeding Africa dry of its only true resource, its manpower, such that we have a shortage of qualified doctors in Nigeria.

Our greatest problem is not corruption per se, but sheer incompetence. That is why why our problem is not financial, because financial problems are easy to solve. But managerial incompetence is very difficult to deal with. You will find out that the management of our most successful companies are Europeans, Indians, Chinese and even Lebanese, while the ones with Nigerian management almost always fail in the long run. Why? - incompetence. Incompetence pervades all sectors, aviation, power, Engineering, Education (heard of the Kwara exams tests for primary school teachers?) etc.

@ Linxon
You allegation that i complain is not founded on facts, on reading my posts i have not seen where i have made even one complaint.

Now I reside in Lagos and Lagos is my home, had been for the last 30 yrs (save from the yrs i spent in university and a brief sojourn in London). Although both my parents were from riverine villages right at the heart of the Niger Delta. I cannot point to the villages on the map even if it is enlarged to the size of a stadium. So most likely i will live and die in Lagos.

Having said that i have very close cousins who lives in London, some have been there for over 40 yrs, some married oyinbo, while some married other blacks - Africans and Caribbeans, and have made London their home. The possibility of them or their children ever coming to reside in the Niger Delta (where their father is from) is very remote.

You said I have inferiority complex, but the reverse is the case. It is you that have inferiority complex. Given that there is some racism in London, there is racism everywhere. In fact the tribalism we experience here is worse than the racism you can ever experience there. In England racism is often restricted to individuals. but in Nigeria it is a National Policy, both Federal and State. You are admitted into a university not just because you score high in JAMB, but also by your state of origin and who you know. In state universities "non indigenes are made to pay up to 3 times what indigenes pay.

You have limitless opportunities in London, the society has developed to a state where merit is recognized and rewarded. So do not feel intimidated by white skins, you can do better than all of them if you go beyond your complexes. You can be mayor of London or even Prime Minister.

People keep howling " YOU ARE AN AFRICAN", without defining who an African is?

Is it about Dark skin color? - Arabs are also Africans, or are they not?
Is is about Cloths? We were mainly shirt & trousers, Even the fabrics of the so called traditional cloths are made in Europe or China .
Is it about religion? - we worship white Gods and white messiahs.
Is it Language? - most 21 century African children cannot speak their mother tongue.
Is it culture? I am sure your children speak with an English accent, init?
Please define AN AFRICAN.


@B118
I did not miss out on the word potential. From your explanation of the word potential, every country on earth has the same potential. But the most important potential is the one we lack - Management and Technological Man power.
It was Management and Technological man power that USA was able to employ to escape colonization by Britain and surpassed her, to become the no 1 nation on earth.

It was Management and Technological Resources that Israel used to turn an open desert into an agricultural exporting country.

It was Management and Technological Resource that made Japan an world industrial power Less that 20 yrs after a devastating war. Same for Germany.

So your use of potentially powerful nation is too general

linxon:
Hmmmm, You are in complete self denial, stop fooling yourself! You know damn well that you are Nigerian and it has to be fixed! You will find out where you are from when you have been bound and gagged and dumped on the first availble flight to Nigeria.  If you reside in the west and you have black skin you will be victimized you know it!  Obama is a coconut who has been chosen by the democratic party to prevent the Clintons from taking power.  He has not mentioned Africa Once and he never will - it dose'nt get votes.  When he talks about his American forefathers you know he's bonkers!  

All the places Nigerians are running to were built based on self sacrifice and determination, I think that this forum exemplifies the reason Nigeria has not developed.  There seems to be a waste of energy over petty issues and a huge lack of self belief! If Nigerian people are the problem - then Nigerian people are the solution.

Mr linxon,

Please read the post carefully. If you say London is not your home then London is not your home, and i will suggest GO HOME and take your children with you if you have some.

But from my memory of history, the English people are a mixture of races from Angles, Saxony, Germany, Vikings, Normandy and lately Jamaica. even the monarchy trace their roots to Germany. So if you cannot make London your home then go home, but i can tell you that the English Society treats you far better than you would be treated by the Nigerian society outside your village.

@ B118

Please stop that propaganda, What makes Nigeria a powerful country?
Is it military power?
Is it economic power?
Do not let that Giant of Africa slogan get into your head. Power is not measured by population or the Arabs nations would be deemed more powerful than Israel. Most powerful societies in history were very small in terms of population and physical size. Rome was a village, even Britain that conquered half the world is a very small place.

POWER IS MEASURED BY TECHNOLOGICAL AND INTELLECTUAL STRENGTH AND NOT BY LAND MASS OR POPULATION OR EVEN MINERAL RESOURCES.

i_laugh:
@RichyBlack

No wonder you are in Somalia.

Who took your bread o - abeg, no extra tooth for sale on NairaLand - if you bark and loose you tooth, no one to help you o.

If you pack 10,000 Nigerian youths to other places like you said, in one year, that country would have been spoilt, go to South Africa, go to Ghana, your youths are the ones spoiling the place - what are you talking about?

Home is home? Nonsense talk! Man's home is the planet earth! Anywhere a man is on this planet is home. After all, many Nigerians are treated much better in places outside Nigeria than in their purported "home".

Hmmm - this statement can never be true even if you become president of your town.


All the things you said about Nigera happens in worse scales in other countries - you are simply barking without saying anything new.

The above statement is not only try, it is what in mathematics you describe as an IDENTITY. Humans are very migratory in nature, they migrate to areas of better food, water, shelter, opportunities. that was why man was able to leave africa and populate the whole world.

Mr. I-Laugh, home is wherever you have settled and have been accepted by the people you meet there. And i must add that, it is that your concept of home that have created the settler / indigene dichotomy that is ruining the country, and it is also a great contributor to our corruption (it is acceptable for an indigene to embezzle, after all it is our money).

Can anyone in this thread tell me that their present so called home is the home of their great grand father. Do they not know that one of their fore fathers left their home and settled somewhere else. Do you know where your great grand children will decide to settle.

This settler indigene problem was started by some earlier settler to exclude others from money or position or political allocations, when Nigeria adopted the method of sharing or Federal Character.

Finally, Most of the people that claim the US as home today had grand parents from elsewhere. Obama's father is from Kenya, but Obama's home is the US of A.

HOME IS WHERE YOU ARE AT.

I am amazed at the falsehood and scare tactics being employed by christians though out the ages to terrorize people to join their religion. How can one compare the relative peace and prosperity we are enjoying now to the chaos of the past, including the time of jesus. The most annoying aspect is that people who had never read any other thing out side their Bible (some do not even read the bible, they rely on the interpretation of their priests), would start talking about events in history from their imagination. You cannot compare famine in the past to famine now, even though population was considerably small. The wars of those days were bloodier and much more brutal than the wars of today. In fact, war was a way of life to the average man in those days. Even almost every book of the old testament dealt with wars, bloody wars. In the time of Jesus the Jews were suppressed by the romans, and the jews revolted many times, The last Jewish revolt was crushed in a most bloody manner, the temples burnt and remaining jews ran into Europe.

So how can someone with a sane mind say we have more wars now, when they themself had never experienced a war.
Also they talk about natural disaster, how can someone in Rome during the time of Jesus know about a hurricane in south America, when the Europeans did not discover America until the 15th century AD. Did we have CNN in Jesus Time?

I am so happy today reading the posts in this thread. It shows that there is a glimmer of hope for the black man to escape completely from slavery.
Although the damage done by physical slavery was great, the damage done by mental and spiritual slavery was even far greater. So much so that my people believes, they had no history, no tradition, no technology, etc before the coming of the white man, and their religions and traditions were demonic (even when the white man's religion was predicated on blood, wars, sacrifices etc ). And i say that we cannot develop if we do not know who we are by throwing away all the legacies of our ancestors and adapt those of foreigners. It was the same thing the white man did to indigenous people of america, they wiped away a whole civilization and almost wiped away the people themself, and today they have completely forgotten their rich religions that served them for thousands of years and replaced it with Christianity.

Most of my people are so enslaved that, their lives would lost all meanings once the prison walls are removed (the lies of the white mans religion removed). These people are afraid to research the way the religion came into our tribes. I can tell you that the people of the Niger Delta were the first to come in contact with the missionaries, but most tribes refused the new religion and had to be converted by force (remember the Bini Kingdom) while stealing our treasures in the process.

Although i am not Yoruba, and I am not even a theist, but I know that Ifa religion gave the Yoruba kingdom stability and peace for hundreds of years unlike Christianity which never gives peace or stability to societies where it is established. So I hope people like omotawede, IDINRETE, denex and co should continue to educate us on Ifa religion, am maybe people will go back to their roots or at least understand their roots.

Truth11:
I think you got the message straight to your heart this time and your argument fell flat just now but you want to continue your argument.

I was not there when any of the things written in the Bible happened, but I love the truth and so I believe it absolutely. So I was there when Genesis 1 tells about creation, I dont have even 0.0001% doubt!! I absolutely believe whatever I read from the Bible, I believe when Daniel was thrown to the lions, I believe when David killed Goliath, I believe when God took his children out of Egypt and all the plagues and the wilderness journey, I believe everything in the Bible and my heart agrees.

Earlier, when I did not receive Christ as my personal saviour I used to doubt everything like you and I could not believe anything from the Bible, it all looked like lies even though I was born in a believing christian home.

God has given me discernment so I can differentiate the truth from lies. You can also have this beautiful nature through Christ.

Blessings,

What is the basis of your 0.0001% belief in the bible. Is it due to your being an eyewithness, is it due to it being collaborated by other sources, is it due to the stories being logical, or is it due to blind faith?

Lets see what else you believe.

Do you believe that man was created out of dust but women out of one rib of man?
Do you believe that Jonah survived in the belly of a whale for 3 days?
Do you believe that the sun stood for three days so that Gods children can win a war (although that would not help nowadays as we have night vision goggles)
Do you believe humans can build a tower that will make God feel threatened?
Do you believe that all of Job's children and wife rose from the dead (first resurrection) after Jobs passing of his tests?
Do you believe that it was only the isrealites that the real God ever interracted with and every other culture on earth was visited by fake Gods?
Do you belief God has a court with a golden throne and his heir (first son) by his right hand (what about the queen), complete with high chiefs (angels), musicians and commoners (ordinary human souls). ?

Lets know which one you believe

This question, along with where did we come from? and how do we predict, understand and contol nature? defines all religions. Since the Homo sapiens sapiens came to the realization of the innevitability of death, and hence his morality. He then began the quest for mortality. But on finding out that it is impossible to defeat death, he then created Gods, demons, Spirits, etc that had the ability to not only defeat death but to bestow immortality on those he favours. eg Roman and greek Gods.
But when those Gods outlived their usefulness (they died), so new concepts had to be fashion. Gods that used to be seen by special people who are the ones allowed into the God's abode became and invisible God, that can only be heard (by special people of couse) and not seen. Then physical immortality became spiritual immortality and all sorts of concepts were spawn arround spiritual immortality. We have re-incarnation (a form of physical immortality) and heaven and hell. So man found the comfort he his looking for in spiritual immortility.

I wander if we can have our pets with us in heaven or hell?

to the real question, when we die, we DIE. Our bodies are used to replenish the earth and half of us live through our genes(offsprings)

to answer the question of whether religion is necessary for morality, i want people to answer the following questions;

1. Which societies or countries are most stable and peaceful today?
2. Which countries fight the least wars?
3. Which countries have the highest vices, like abortions, teenage pregnacies, corruption, discrimination (both racial and women), drug addiction, etc
4. which countries have the largest population of poor people?
5. Which countries have the greatest disparity between the rich and poor?
To these questions you can answer religious or non religious countries (countries where religion is not a state policy)

Toneyb, I pray that which ever God you believe in, will  continue to bless you with more knowledge, so you can shine that knowlegde to people like david and co, who are forever consigned to the darkness of religion (foreign ones for that matter.)

You can show them white as long as eternity, they will continue to see black.

sory for the grammatical errors, i am typing in the dark, thanks to PHCN of course.

If we cannot see that in today,s Nigeria there is everything wrong with a pastor acquiring a jet whichever way, while the bulk of his followers continue to live in poverty, then i think we will slide into the dark ages until the next century.
These things cannot happen in sane countries. If it was the uk, i am sure scotland yard will interogate the source of the funds for the Jet (even the 30% being contributed by the good samaritans). If that 30% was used to set up schools by wealthy members of RCCG (like Ophrah did in SA), i am sure that real prosperity will begin to affect poorer families whose children will be better educated.

I wonder how christainity, which started as a pious religion has now compete with corporate world and corporare practices. You people should remember that the fisrt missionaries that came to africa set up schools, hospitals and houses for their host communities free of charge. And the priests did not live in a differnt class from their followers.

Any way that is the black mans mentality, once we escape "the poverty trap" we are infected with the Look at me now" decease.

Someone says that it is not our money, but I beg to disagree. Churches are registers as a social service and money is contributed by the public (members), that is why the public does not benefit from them in the way of Taxes. So one should think the general public especially members donating this money should benefit something outside prayers, salvation and anointing. The pastors should engage in projects that will benefit the greatest number of people.

I honestly do not understand why the GOs need jet planes, I thought churches are other pastors and the Go does not have to be in every church in every country.Even the British prime minister who i consider has more responsibility does not have a private Jet, he flies on british airways. Also i do not think bill gates who has microsoft office in every major city in the world flies that much.

To me a good rebranding strategy is banning use of generators by all high ranking government officials, having at least one of their children in a Nigerian school, watching Nigerian TV stations as against CNN and cartoon network, using our hospitals for minor illments and going abroad for only major deceases after being refered from our hospitals.

They have to show confidence in your brand before you expect confidence from others

OMO IBO:
what has rebranding Nigeria got to do with where ones children study? i can answer that question for you, . . . . . . . . . .ZILCH!

you cannot deny the fact that we all want the best things in life and studying at the best or better higher institutions is one of them. She could afford to send her children abroad to study even before to became NAFDAC boss. so the question of bringing her children back to Nigeria does not cut it. if Nigerian institutions were any better i doubt she'd have done that. and the same can be said about most of us who are outside the shores of Nigeria.


Why are are we against rebranding NIgeria? This woman single handedly sanitized NAFDAC. why is the Nigerian image any big a deal?
I personallydont give a rats ass what is being rebranded but i'd give her a chance based on her record at NAFDAC

Rebranding has everthing to do with where your childen go to school, where you go for medical check up and where you spend your holidays.

Let me use another example,
Now if you are appointed marketing officer for MTEL and you decide to rebrand MTEL, do you use MTN lines and wear MTN branded yellow tee shirts and use MTN's facilities because they are better and you can afford it? When I was young, i had lots of friends with fathers working for NEPA, and NEPA policies did not allow staff to use generators. So Light was fairly constant where Nepa officials lived.

OMO IBO:
i hope you know dora akunyili was already made even before she became NAFDAC boss and subsequently minister for information. Get your facts right son.

are you implying that our Chief Re-Brander cannot rebrand Nigerian schools by bringing her children to Nigerian universities. Is it a good rebranding strategy to have every for every llocal chairman, commisioner and minister sending their children abroad (i am sure the children of the education minister are abroad). Add to this is the Rebranding of our hospitals by the fact that every headache, Diarrhoea and malaria is treated abroad.

Although i am home based, i can say that the only good brand we have are Nigerians in diaspora, they are the only group giving nigeria a good image. And i am sure a lot of them would have come to make positive contributions at home, if they not frustrated by polititians back home. I know for a fact that Diende Fernandez wanted to make some major contribution to his fatherland, but was frustrated by the last administration.

Nigeria's major problem is that the premium placed on human life depends on status. How can one compare the five years (in theory) that a superstar gets to the life of an unknown doctor. I am sure if the person killed is higher than Ibinabo in status, likewas a governor (fashola is said to some drive himself around), or even a commisioner, (because it could be anybody), we would not be talking of 5 yrs.

I hate the argument of whether she was drunk or sober. I think her being drunk should be a better excuse than her not being drunk. Because if she was not drunk (and i do not think her lawyers pleaded mechanical failure of her jeep), then what do we owe the recklessness of her driving, for her car to leave her lane and crash into a car on the other side of the lane. Was she attempting suicide or she was bent on killing someone. Maybe she was testing the limit of the car, because i we have not heard her excuse.

My problem with the whole issue is not even the accident, but the actions and reactions of Ibinabo, what has she done to pacify the family of the deceased, how has she shown the society her remorse. If such things happens to stars abroad, they would show the society they are sorry by starting a foundation and use their star status to raise funds for victims of man slaughter, or if the accident was achohol induced, start a campaign against drink driving. So what has our super star done. Rumours has it that she is jumping from one night club to the other.

What is the meaning of [b]re-[/b]branding? what is it to [b]re-[/b]brand? to re-brand. you have to first brand, before you can [b]re-[/b]brand. so when was Nigeria first branded, was it after independence? or was it after "The Heart Beat Of Africa Project", whereby Nigeria brand would be The Heart Beat Of Africa.

Can someone please help me answer these questions.

Sorry i made a slight mistake in the calculation for 3 BC.

3BC was actually 2012 yrs ago, so if we deduct that from your 4400 yrs ago, we would have 2388 yrs after the flood.

So the correct figures are;

3 BC (2388 yrs after the flood) - population = 428,789 people.

Mr OLAADEGBU,

Your ignorance is beyond belief. Your deceit is even worse. You bring one argument and when that has been defeated you google and come up with conflicting argument.

Please read, digest and attempt to understand the sites before you cut and paste.

Read my above posts and you will see that your voodoo mathematics and eternally increasing population theory had been defeated.

Now let me debunk your arguments again.

The formula for calculating population increase is N=No *e^(r*t)

So using your growth rate of 0.456%, and starting with Noah's family 4400 years ago , we have the follow figures for each of your dates.

3 BC (2403 yrs after the flood) - Population = 459,145 people.
1800AD (4191yrs after the flood) - Population = 1,595,417,894 people
1985 AD ( 4376yrs after the flood) - Population = 3,708,901,365 people
2000 AD (4391 yrs after the flood) - Population = 3,971,467,623 people
2009 AD (4400 yrs after the flood) - population = 4,137,847,416 People
2109 AD (4500 yrs after the flood) - population = 6,528,490,187 people

So your figures do not add up. you have to tweak your rates and year of the flood better in order to arrive at todays population.

Another fallacy of your argument is that the Romans only carried out a census of the Roman Empire and not the whole world. The population of Rome cannot be the population of the world. Also in the 1800 there was no world census, so there was no way the world population was accurately known.

I have told you that the mathematical equation is just a guide, other factors always reduce the population far below that of the equation. or are you saying that there is no need for actual population census anymore? so we should always rely on the mathematical projection.

I have been reading a lot about quantum physics lately, and i am still not quite at ease with some of its interpretations.

1. That it is we conscious beings that that everything that we look at is in actuality empty space and is only an interpretation by our own consciousness. The problem to me is whose consciousness, is it the consciousness of Homo sapiens only or the consciousness of all living things including Monkeys, ants, bacteria and viruses.

It is said that if there is no consciousness is available to perceive the moon, then the moon will not exist, the problem with that line of argument is what about planets, asteroids and comets we are just discovering, were they not existing before we learnt to perceive them?

Gods were created by priests in collaboration with brutal dictator kings to subdue the masses, by claiming they were representation of Gods or even manifestation of Gods. So their words and actions are therefore unquestionable.

Davidylan,

I know that you are young but that does not excuse your lack of decorum. You spew insults once you feel cornered in an argument, is that what you are taught as a born again?. You are another bad example of someone that claims he has Christ-like attributes (Christian). Now if you continue to churn out insults then i will have to stop arguing with you, because i was of the opinion we came here to share our different view points.

If you say i have limited knowledge about genetics, i would not argue with you, just as you have limited knowledge of Mathematics. But as an evolutionist, my paleontology is extremely strong. Now I will do what i usually do not do (google terms for the sake of arguing on forums, i usually rely on my memory) to find our if the debate on whether we descended from neanderthalensis had been settled once and for all.

Now here is what i came up with .

H. neanderthalensis lived from about 250,000 to as recent as 30,000 years ago. Also proposed as Homo sapiens neanderthalensis: there is ongoing debate over whether the 'Neanderthal Man' was a separate species, Homo neanderthalensis, or a subspecies of H. sapiens. While the debate remains unsettled, evidence from sequencing mitochondrial DNA indicates that no significant gene flow occurred between H. neanderthalensis and H. sapiens, and, therefore, the two were separate species that shared a common ancestor about 660,000 years ago. In 1997, Dr. Mark Stoneking, then an associate professor of anthropology at Pennsylvania State University, stated: "These results [based on mitochondrial DNA extracted from Neanderthal bone] indicate that Neanderthals did not contribute mitochondrial DNA to modern humans… Neanderthals are not our ancestors." Subsequent investigation of a second source of Neanderthal DNA supported these findings.[25] However, supporters of the multiregional hypothesis point to recent studies indicating non-African nuclear DNA heritage dating to one mya, although the reliability of these studies has been questioned.
Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution


The Neanderthals, believed to be a different species from Homo sapiens, evolved in Ice Age Europe, while the latter evolved in Africa before spreading out to the rest of the world around 50-40,000 years ago. Neanderthals are thought to have died out around 28,000 years ago, suggesting at least 10,000 years of overlap and possible interaction between the two species in Europe.
Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080825203924.htm

Neanderthals lived mostly in Europe and the Middle East from at least 200,000 to 28,000 years ago, before disappearing mysteriously from the fossil record just as modern-looking humans moved into those regions. Whether people today owe any ancestry to these earlier folks has roiled paleoanthropology for decades. The goal of the meeting, said NYU anthropologist Terry Harrison, one of the co-organizers, was to look for common ground between scholars on both sides of the debate.
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2005-02-08-skeletons_x.htm

So where did you get this statement from
"Secondly there is NO debate about whether we descended from neanderthals - current hypothesis is that they are our cousins more like it. "

I also like want you to post the source of all your propositions.

Davidylan,

I can speculate that homo sapiens sapiens evolved very slowly because they live in the wild, so their number would be checked by extreme weather fluctuations, availability of seasonal crops and game, deceases, predator, etc. An outbreak of decease alone can wipe out whole populations.

I must confess that i am not so learned in the area of Genetics, so do not think i can argue with you there. But I do know that the human Genome was only decoded about 10 yrs ago, so when did they get and decode the genome of homo erectus and homo Neanderthal.

Where is the evidence we evolved from homo erectus when our genomic DNA or mtDNA bears no resemblance whatsoever to our closest relatives the nearnderthals?

This your statement is senseless, how can you find evidence from homo erectus to compare Neanderthal and you now relate it to us. I just do not understand. There is currently a debate whether we descend from Neanderthal or not and available evidence is pointing in the negative.

About your growth rate of 0.005% with 2 homo sapiens, let me help you.

The equation is N=No *e^(r*t)
=2*2.71828^{(0.005/100*125,000)}

The answer would be 1036 homo sapiens. I hope that helps

Winnergal:
I don't think wirinet was referring to all christians . . .

Of course it can be all christians, i had met a few honest Christians but they are far and in between, I think the doctrine of "you will be forgiven, whatever your sin had been once you confess and repent or it was the work of the devil, witches, demons do not allow a christian to take responsibility for his actions and feel a sense of guilt.

Davidylan, i have met a whole lot of Christians. I come from a large extended family where everybody is a Christian, I was a Christian for the first eighteen yrs of my life, I attended a catholic primary and secondary school where majority of the students and teachers were Christians, I went to OAU where majority of the students are Christians. In fact i can say that over 80% of people i have ever come in contact with in my life were Christians. So if majority of the Christians i had come in contact with are dishonest, i can interpolate that majority of Nigerian Christians are dishonest and deceitful.

The way you appraise Christians, Nigeria should be one of the best countries in the world in terms of character as about half the population professes to be Christian, but the reverse is the case. Our Character is worse than even atheist, hindu and Buddhists countries. So something does not add up here.

Thank you winnergal, Some fundamentalist Christian are to blind to reality.

I am talking of personal experience and of those close to me, not to talk of newspaper and magazine reports.

I am not asking you to take my words for it, conduct your own research. also ask the following questions, Are marriages between Christians more successful than other marriages? are Christians more honest than other people?

Your difference holds mo water. So because Buddhists and sango worshipers call the name pf God in vain should mean Christians and Jews should do the same. I have news for you, it is not a commandment for Buddhists and Hindus but for Jews and Christians. It is following the Laws of a religion that makes one a member of that religion.

I am glad you are not asked to translate the Bible into your language, you will mislead your people greatly. The commandment cannot possibly be more explicit, it says (once more) "Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth". It did not mention anything about worship, and neither did the commandment make room for any exceptions.

We are talking about holiness as regard to keeping the Sabbath holy, as contained in the commandments and not holy as in an individual.

I see you are not in support of following the commandments literally.

My Sister, it is true that in Theory Born Again men do not cheat on there wifes and they are not supposed to have girl friends, BUT in practice you will find the opposite, they cheat , steal and lie more that the average person (in nigeria that is). Please just conduct a survey using your church or the nearest church, the best place to start your investigation is the Choir or group meetings. you will be shocked.

davidylan:
wirinet, what would the answer be if we used billions of yrs like evolution alleges?

Evolution never said humans have been around for billions of yrs, it says homo sapiens sapiens (modern man) evolved out of homo erectus some 125,000 yrs ago.

Also as i said the population of the early homo sapiens increased very very slowly until we were able to understand, control and adapt our environment which is only very recently in addition to advancement in politics. One of our last vestiges of our ancient ways is religion which is modeled on monarchy and dictatorship (God is an absolute dictator king). that God will break down eventually as we enter democracy, we will replace the dictator God with a Democratic God, that allows for variety of opinion and freedom of expression.

@ Noetic,

What do you mean by asking the what calling the name of God in vain has to do with ten commandments, The forth commandment says "thou shall not take the name of thy God in Vain" if you have forgotten go back and read it.

It does not matter what the Cross and Crucifix signify, The second commandment clearly states "Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of [b]anything [/b]that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth". The commandment says any image and that includes Cross, Crucifix or image of the last supper.

Christians and Jews have killed Moslems and Jews in retaliation from time immemorial, it happened in the bible and it is is still happening today. Ask Jos Moslems during the last riots.

In both the new and old testement, holiness means a day you do not engage in any form of commercial activity, social or political activity.

Christians condones stealing and corruption, the modern name for it in the church is called prosperity or blessing. You find someone who is jobless, without a bicycle to his name suddenly buying a jeep. The pastor will make an example of that person as someone whom God has blessed. If the church does not condone stolen money, i am sure corruption will reduce, but then the churches need their share of the loot (tithes).

I do not get your reasoning how you relate the fact that the church condones fornication and adultery to emptiness and holes of atheism. My wife is a born again Christian and her church reeks of sexual immorality that she stopped going for a while.