₦airaland Forum

If the ten commandments are necessary, then;
Why do people call the name of GOD in vain numerous times every day?
Why do the bow at images of cross and revere the cross and crucifix?
Why are Christians and Jews alway eager to kill a Moslem or Arab in retaliation for thtem killing a christian?
Why is no Christian ready to Keep the sabbath day (no matter which day it is) holy?
Why is it children are to obey and honour pastors, priests and reverend fathers more than their parents?
Why are Christian encourage to steal, cheat and commit all other forms of corruption in the name of prosperity (as long as they pay tithes)?
Why is adultery condoned in the churches, you have many unmarried couples as members of a church, sometimes with numerous children or heavily pregnant?

And so on.

Mr OLAADEGBU,

Let me help you with a bit of elementary mathematics since you are mathematically handicap.

The formula for calculating population is N=No *e^(r*t)

N = Future Population

no = Starting population

r = growth rate

t= number of years.

MANY missing variables, like disease, pestilence, war,

If you work out the numbers from Noah (8 people) and using your cooked up rate of 0.456%. But the problem is i do not know the time you place the flood, as the bible does not provide such info.

So we are at liberty us use between 4,000 and 5,000, assuming the flood took place between 2000 and 3000 BC

If we use 4000, yrs we would get 667,761,439.8
If we use 4490 yrs, we would get 6,237,476,570 (todays population)
and if we use 5000yrs, we would get 63,826,962,113
So you see your did what is called "Jomo To Th Answer" in mathematics. You just tweak the rate and number of yrs to arrive at your predetermined answer.

It pains me you refuse to see the folly of your arguments, I still tell you that assuming a constant population rate is deceptive. i tried to explain earlier that population increase can stop and in fact decrease due to the factors i have already explained earlier. The most important determinant of population of any specie is the availability of food,that is why a virus (that can duplicates millions in days) cannot be more than the number of electrons in the universe. We humans only recently learnt to control our environment and shape it to suit our need, therefore human population grew very, very slowly in the beginning. In fact the population of humans was said to have hit the one billion mark, less than 1000 years ago.

MR. OLAADEGBU,
With your mathematics please tell us how long it will take our present population to out strip the number of electrons in the universe.

Your figure of a population increase of 2.45 x 10⁹⁹⁰ in 500,000yrs is simply stupid. Do you have enough mathematical knowledge to know what 10⁹⁹⁰ means? Even if we agree that there are 10¹³⁰ electrons in the universe, then a figure of 10¹³¹ would mean 10 times the number of electrons in the universe and 10¹³² means 100 times the number of electrons in the universe. So 10⁹⁹⁰ is to much of an infinite number to contemplate mathematically. If we are to interpolate using your mathematics, i am sure human population will hit the total number of electrons in the universe (10¹³¹) in far less that 50 yrs using todays population.

Please go back to class 3 and relearn indices. Also read sites properly before you cut and paste.

YES the world will come to an end, the question is how. Different schools of thought have different propositions. Even among christians there are different beliefs, some believe the world will come to an end in some kind of catastrophe, while others believe it will just disappear. I do not know of muslim or jewish beliefs as far as the end of the world is concerned.

But Scientifically, the world will surely come to an end, the real questions are how and when. It could be next year and it could be billions of years from now. The world could come to an end as a result of a natural catastrophe or man made catastrophe.
So here are few of the ways the world can come to an end.

[b]1 Nuclear Bomb: [/b]If a nuclear war breaks out among the US and Russia, in a matter of days, Life as will know it will cease to exist on earth ( except a privilege few that can escape to outer space for about 1 yr or until their supplies run out, then there would be the problem of what to eat and drink when they get back). The US and Russia alone has enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world many times over.

2: A Biological Attack: A genetically engineered virus or bacteria can be made that is extremely deadly, extremely contagious and fast acting and spreading (maybe airborne), Such virus would wipe out human population in a very short time.

3. Ozone Layer disappearance: If an extremely large amount of ozone depleting gas is pumped into the atmosphere in a very short period of time, it could cause the complete disappearance of the ozone layer, causing the earth surface to receive the full impact of ultraviolet rays from the sun, wiping out all life in a matter of days.

4. Stoppage of the earths magnetic field. If the earth should stop spinning, then the magnetic flux around the earth would stop. As it is created by the movement of molten iron at the center of the earth crust. The disappearance of this flux would cause high energy ionized radiation from the sun to hit the earths surface, wiping out all life.

5. Asteroid Impact: If an asteroid one tenth the size of the moon should crash on earth, it will shatter it to pieces, destroying everything on it.

6. The Sun: When the sun runs of of fuel, its surface will expand so much to even cover the orbit of earth, roasting everything on it.


I am sure there are many others but i cannot think of them right now.

I decided to post on this forum again in order to bring back the topic, as other threads are still asking the same question and i do not want us to keep repeated ourselves.

So the questions remain.

ow11:
As far as you are concerned, authors of answers in genesis are incapable of doing no wrong abi? You just copy and paste without trying at least to check if the conclusions derived from the bible by those authors make any valid sense. If I may ask you, how did they arrive at 1.7% growth rate? do you solve maths by trying to make figures arrive at a pre-determined number? As far as you are concerned, the population of the earth grew at 1.7% constantly irrespective of wars, slave raids, plagues, migration, famine and industrialisation that can greatly affect birth and death rates OR maybe you'll say the fluctuations were all taken into consideration before the 1.7% was arrived at. It is possible to prove that TTE is absurd but this population postulation is definately NOT one of them and you should do well to forget about it.

While I admire your continued stance to prove that evolution is incompatible with the word of God, you can do well to leave out some of the absurdities on answers in genesis. I do not think all 'young-earth creationists'_{since you like labels} believe all the twaddle on answers in genesis. Of course, you are convinced answers in genesis and the book of Genesis are one and the same and so disagreeing with Mr Ken Ham's bullchit stories is equivalent to denying the existence of God or His word.

Do not mind OLAABEGBU, I do not understand how he could arrive at a population of 2.45 x 10⁹⁹⁰ from a couple in 500,000 years, that is what you call voodoo mathematics. If you are a little bit more knowledgeable, he will know that It is only recently that we have been able to achieve high growth rate, due to;
1. our ability to control and adapt the environment to our needs.
2. Our invention of agriculture and husbandry and forgery of iron (scientific innovation of those days by scientist and not theologians) , so we are assured of greater food security.
3. Our recent better understanding of diseases and its causative factors and subsequent improvement of medicine. As as example the Plague wiped out almost half the population of Europe.
4. Better political organisations that reduce the incidence of wars, wars was an everyday reality for societies until very recently. wars alone was responsible for greatly reducing the population of men.
5. Natural Disasters like floods, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, etc played havoc on human population in the past. recent ones are the Indonesian Tsunami that killed close to 250,000 people. Just subscribe to discovery channel and you will get an idea of some ancient ones.

So if you add all these factors you will find out that the average life expectancy of a human living in the past was very low, depending on how far back you go in history. Therefore human population grew very very slowly in the past and not the super growth rate that your mathematics threw up, that can not be ascribed to even cockroaches.

Mr Olaadegbu,

You never give up on you obsession with evolution, it is a pity you lack of any shred of scientific knowledge is a handicap to you, so you just Google up any anti evolution site and paste any thing you find there on this forum.

Please just what is the mathematic for arriving at you population census that will produce 2.45 x 10990 people in 6,500 yrs. Do you also have a handicap in mathematics? Please also use your formula to calculate how may Rats we will have in 6500 yrs since an average female rat has more than 6 offspings every 6 months or so. Also apply for formula to cockroaches, ants, algae and finally to bacteria and see what you will come up with.

It still beats my imagination how a reasonable person can postulate that Biblical creation is more logical than evolution.

davidylan:
which is why i specifically was speaking to noetic not you.

Read that post of mine you quote - where did i say you posted from youtube or even viewed it? Get some common sense.

Sorry, for the misunderstanding, i thought you were referring to me when i saw my name.

davidylan:
I'm glad you're begining to realise that EVEN SCIENCE is casting major doubts on the lies that TTE is gradually turning out to be. And this was the same ignorant fool accusing me of being dishonest . . . take your time to read the VERY SCIENCE you worship and tout before posting here next time.

lol shrimps have "not not not" been around for 400 million yrs indeed! The clueless ones like wirinet would simply have lapped up his false claim, assuming because he posts tons of youtube links he must know what he is saying.

Do you have to tell deliberate lies to support your myth. please read my post. I had never posted a youtude link in my life. In fact i have never visited the youtube website. I even avoid youtube links because my server is extremely slow, and i will take too long to open. \so please stop telling lies, it will land you in hell.

davidylan:
noetic, on a sidenote i suggest you ignore Baddriyah. I think she's simply looking for attention.
I'd wager you also ignore wirinet, he hasnt read a biology textbook in 25 yrs yet he is here bleating about what he doesnt know about.

I think you are suffering from youthful exorbitance as you probably only started learning science and you suddenly feel you can challenge almost all establish scientist dating back 3 centuries, especially in the field of paleontology, microbiology and genetics. When i said I have not read Biology since secondary school, I meant general biology, I did not tell you i do not read aspects that is of concern to me. i have studied everything that has to do with evolution, from astronomy to anthropology, from physics to geology, etc.

I made the statement because i was not sure that scientist had agreed that cancer is hereditary, i know the last time i read about it, there were sharp disagreements among scientist as to the degree hereditary plays in cancer and the degree environmental factors plays. That was why i asked you for links or sources. I have read your answer and i will research the veracity when i have time. I have been on nairaland for a while and i never talk of what i do not understand, i will tell you as far as i understand any topic. I never google or cut and past. You can try all my post on all the search engines, you will find my arguments in any website because i write from my head.

You asked a simple question of the origin of life, I answered the way the scientific community understands it, and instead of discussing the merits of my arguments, you simply ran away by saying i do not understand what i am talking about.

If beats me how an educated person can compare a few line of conjecture from the bible, to the myriads of materials detailing the formation and evolution of life by numerous men who devoted their whole life to deciphering the mysteries of life. And someone will tell us that the few assertion of the Bible is more reasonable and sensible than science. That is the first time i am hearing such. Theist usually tell us that the Bible is accepted on faith and not on logic.

huxley:
Yes, the human race is largely ignorant as to the naturalistic origin of life, but that is not to say that we shall for ever remain ignorant. Secondly, the fact that we have no explanation for something or an event does not preclude making further useful prediction/theories about that something

I decided to respond to this thread again because i felt that you cannot squeeze water from a stone no matter how long and hard you try, that is referring to davidylan and co. You can explain evolution to them a thousand times and they would still say you have not answered a single question there are raising.

But i am responding now because of the above statement by huxley whom i respect very much, and a few others. Scientist have very good and sound postulations about the origin of live on earth and the process being repeated on other planets. It had been dealt with extensively by my mentor - Carl Sagan. But for those who do not know here is my explanation.

Before I explain the naturalistic origin of life as generally accepted by scientists, we have to agree on the definition of life. So What Is Life?

I think the problem we have is that different people has a different definition of life. We have spiritual life, biological life, physical life, and so on. The one we are interested in is biological or organic life. I have no definition or understanding of spiritual life.

To me Life is a self contained system of molecules that is capable of duplicating itself from generation to generation. Put in another way it is organic molecules with the potential of forming self reproducing systems. The basic unit of life is The DNA. If you agree with me on the definition of life, we can then move on to its origin, if not then our thought pattern will never cross.

Nucleic acids are the building blocks of life, as they are responsible for life's primary function - replication and growth. Nucleic acids and protein are polymers. Polymerization involves the loss of water. In constructing a nuceic acid, the phosphorous group losses -OH, allowing the phosphate group to link with ribose sugar. The ribose sugar and a base link when the ribose loses an -OH and the base loses one -H. The loss of these two water molecules leads to the formation of a nucleotide. A nucleotide links to the next nucleotide when it loses one -H and the other one loses one -OH. To make nucleic acids out of the original dehydration(loss of water ) is necessary.dehydration is also necessary to polymerize amino acids into proteins. Polymerization of carbohydrates also requires dehydration.

The original components (phospate group, ribose deoxyribose sugars, bases, amino acids, glocose, etc) are readily formed by by action of electrical charges meaning lightening and ultraviolet radiation in the primitive atmosphere of the earth (see Miller's experiment). These compounds are readily dissolved in rainwater and brought down to the primitive ocean. There these compounds are protected from destruction from the same agents (electrical discharges and ultraviolet radiation) that created them. As the ocean accumulated these compounds, it slowly became a dilute "primordial soup" The dehydration process needed for polymerization most likely took place on the beaches and in tidal pools of the ancient ocean.

Experiments have shown that RNA is autocatalytic, which means that an RNA stand once formed by accidental dehydration can catalyze the formation of complimentary RNA chain. Short stands of RNA were probably the first self duplicating systems to come into being on the young earth.

In those viruses that use RNA as genetic material, the RNA strand is protected by a sheath of specific proteins. the association of RNA with proteins may have led to protein synthesis, and eventually to Primordial Life.

Mr Davidylan and co might argue that life could not have evolved on earth because the earth was too young. According to them 4.6 billion years is too short a time to make all the various type of proteins and nucleic acids needed to make even the simplest bacteria. But they forget the extreme power of natural environmental selection. Evolution was also operating at the molecular level: compounds that were not stable would not survive, leaving only the most stable compounds. It happens that nucleic acids are very stable compounds.

Let me give you an example how natural selection works. Imagine you want the entire King James Bible types by a wild monkey. What are the chances that such a monkey, typing at random will come up with the bible neatly typed without any error. The king James bible is said to contain about 6 million letter. The chances of success is almost nil. But if i introduce a control (the environment) what deletes any wrong letter the monkey would type, the probability would certainly be 1. And typing at one letter per second and assuming an average of 13 errors per letter, the monkey would produce the English Bible in 13 X 6,000,000 seconds, which equals 2 yrs and 6 months. That is how evolution by natural selection works.

i hope you people understand the origin of life and Evolution better now as i am exhausted.

@Davidylan,
Although i had not ready any biology book for about 25yrs, some how i do not remember cancer being being caused by mutation. Please as a molecular biologist, provide links where it has been conclusively proven that cancer is hereditary.

I thought cancer is caused mainly by external and environmental factors like smoking, unnatural foods, exposure to increased radiation, both natural and man made. That is why rural dwellers are said to have little incidence of cancer.

I had the impression that cancer is triggered when the genes responsible for regulating division starts malfunctioning, thereby resulting in abnormal cell division in that cell and it subsequent all cells from it.

Please educate me further.

@ 0thello,

I really respect your knowledge of science and evolution in particular, i pray you were home grown, as i was beginning to get worried at the level of science education in nigeria. Please do not waste your fingers on davidylan he will always throw up unrelated arguments flawed arguments. What is most shocking to me is that someone that claimed to be a molecular biologist is asking "How then did those primordial life forms originate? Did they come from thin air?" amazing, wonderment shall never end. If he says he knows the scientific explanation but does not accept it, i will understand, but to claim not to know is simply amazing.

@ neotic,

I hope you will also not claim to be a scientist, like davidylan because you reason the same way. In science a theory almost always start out as an hypothesis, and i repeat that was in our science curriculum in those days. What is happening to our education, we need divine intervention.

Although i consider my self a complete evolutionist (meaning evolution is in every part of our existence), i am constrained to respond comprehensively at you argument. I am shocked when you say you are a scientist( molecular biologist) and you do not understand what a scientific theory means, as opposed to a scientific hypothesis. I learnt the difference between a theory and an an hypothesis when i just started science classes in form3. So for you to give us a literary definition of a theory is quite strange. A theory is an hypothesis that is verifiable and have been reviewed and accepted by your majority of scientists in that particular field. Said in another way it is the explanation that best correlates and explains the observation of an experiment or a phenomenon as accepted by other experts in the same field. So for you to say that the theory of evolution is "still" a theory after 300 years is what i will call nonsense. As long as the theory correlates with evidence, the theory of evolution will remain the theory of evolution for the next 1,000,000 years.

Now let me educate you further on scientific reasoning, a theory is always valid for the conditions of observation, for example people like you will say newton's theory was wrong and that Einstein was right. But newton was never wrong for the condition of his observation. he was studying moving objects and not photons and electrons. If you fire a bullet it will follow newtons laws.

So please do not attempt to argue on evolution, because you just jumble and confuse ever body with unrelated issues like the big bang, Solar formation, earth formation and even bacteriology.

I was watching an interview with an economist this morning on TV, and he alleges that corruption in our banks is higher that those of the police. He said that all bank M.Ds should be in jail. The banks are stealing from the government and its customers. All though i am not so literate (economics wise), but these are what i understood of his arguments.

1. The banks are stealing Withholding Tax from the governments. withholding tax should be paid to State government if the transaction/contract involves an individual and it is to be paid to the Federal Government if it is a corporate organization, all within seven days of its receipt by the banks. But it is alleged that the banks do not pay.

2. The banks are said to collude with banks to steal money from government by collecting deposits from a government ministry at low interest rates and borrow the same money to the same government agency or another parastatal under the ministry at exorbitant interest rates, and keep the difference.

3. The Banks steals VAT from Government by not remitting the VAT payments to government.

4. The Banks are said to steal from customers by overcharging for bank draft. According to CBN rules, the fees for any bank draft should be N300 whatever the amount, but most banks are known to charge N500 or even N1000 according to the value of the draft. Imagine how much they make from exams like JAMB, where over 1million students buy drafts .

5. They also steal from customers in the name of COT (charge on transaction, i think). The COT should only be charge when you withdraw money, but most time arbitrary fees are charged in the name of COT. It is said most times the charges cannot be explained by your account officer. So it is advice to always scrutinize you account statement now and then ( that is if they send you one).

Although there are others i cannot remember now, but these ones are very weighty allegations.

Please can anyone with know educate us if these allegations are true or false. Also lets hear of your experience of sharp practices by Nigerian banks

I find it quite amazing and appalling that someone could come here and defend OBJ even more than his children and immediate family. I know it is not a tribal issue because most Yorubas (both elite and lay men) dislike the man and have NEVER liked him or anything he stands for. It is only a few yorubas who might have benefited from OBJ that tries to blackmail the rest with all sorts of sentiments.

A good person like a shinning star can never be dimmed. If Mandela should appear in the middle of Oshodi all the area boys would pay their respect, see how london celebrated his last birthday with fanfare and not with eggs and tomatoes. Same goes for Gani, where even hardened criminals paid respects to while in prison.

So why do you think OBJ is always stoned with pure water or eggs wherever he goes if as you people claimed did a wonderful job for Nigeria.

The most unforgivable sin of OBJ among numerous others, was to corrupt Nigeria,s electoral system (political corruption is worse than economic corruption)by installing charlatans in all facets of government. Nigeria might require over ten years to get out of the problems caused by OBJ, just as IBB's june 12 problem plagued the country for over 6yrs. His attempt at perpetuating himself in power is still robbing us of credible leaders. Nigeria leaders today is a huge joke, eg, Yaradua, goodluck, mark, (even the much celebrated speaker, i do not know his antecedents).

OBJ has never won an election fairly in his own ward not to talk of his own state. Now if his such a good man as claimed by his fans why is he hated by people closest to him.

lucabrasi:
i dont see anything strange in keeping an experiment which is the first of its kind in that part of the world top secret,have you seen a construction site in nigeria?apart from the health and safety issues,it is totally walled up and covered, same goes for movies talk less of a scientific experiment, the only information we have heard of the whole thing is from one single source , a newspaper journalist, not even an interview from the supposed head of the whole project,so if the guys have not been given a chance to explain things with their own mouth the way and manner they want to,how do we know what the true picture is?for all we know the expose might not have been sanctioned by the scientists,and the journalists might have only gotten a part of the news,

Lucabrasi, i really feel you. You are the average nigerian who is super patriotic beyond reason. But the reality on the ground contradicts your patriotism, so let me bring you back to realism.

1. Your beloved country is so backwards technologically, that we have industrial chemistry graduates that cannot make detergent or soap, we have electrical electronics graduates that cannot use Logic gates and cannot repair ordinary TVs not to talk of LCD TVs or plasma TVs. We have mechanical engineering graduates that cannot make or repair ordinary "i better pass my neighbour generators" not to talk of industrial machines. And you talk of making a rocket.

2. Our universities are just certificate awarding institutions as NO RESEARCH takes place in them, i was in OAU IFE for 7 yrs and did not hear of any breakthrough research in that time and then the education standard was better. The Labs are empty with the equipments outdated. Also the lecturers are teaching outdated technology. And LASU is not known to be a technologically inclined institution.

3. There are virtually no funds allocated to research in our universities, and the general allocation is just enough to pay salaries of staff and just enough for the VC to steal. The lecturers augment their salaries by selling handouts ( which every student must buy if they want to pass.

So i thing there are more important things to make than rockets, our universities should make transformers, design and make mini refineries, make forged metals and metal sheets and plates, make improved seedlings and a host of other badly needed technology. We do not need to send a man to mars.

iReport:
Be careful of what you say about people because your own relation might bring this sort of unfounded ALLEGATION against you and have the whole world hounding you. You don't know what happened between Obasanjo and Moji and should be left at that. Obasanjo is not only a good christian man but a powerful one at that can have as many women as he wanted. His silence over the issue was appreciated by people like me because gbenga was being childish. Ignoring someone is not an evidence of guilt.

The way you talk, you sound as if you are on the payroll of OBJ, or are you his lawyer. You accuse gbenga of being childish, please explain, what is the Adult Thing to do if you wife is spreading her thing around to include your father, so if you suspect your brother of fu.ckin your wife, you feel they shold just ignore you and keep silent (as silence is the best answer for a fool).

Your statement is contradictory, are you saying a good christian can have as many womwen as he wants? also when did OBJ become a christian, was it when he was fighting apartheid with juju. I think you must be too young to know the history of OBJ.

ireport, there is something terrible wrong with your logic and values, a SON accuses a FATHER publicly (in court) that his father is sleeping with his wife, and you some distance away (both physically and relationship wise), says you need more proof, even though the allegation was not denied by the father or the wife. I really suspect your moral values and would not want to let my housegirl near you.

In more morally sane countries such a person would not be able to show his face in public

kevwekofi:
One thing I love about the average Nigerian is his/her opinion on matters of national interest.

I have read all these posts and I am amazed at the issues discussed here.

I would rather like to make the following points

1. OBJ is not the problem of Nigeria. He has never been.

2. There was a time that Abacha was the devil and we all wanted him DEAD. He died and yet we are still where we are

3. Mark my words, in about 2 years from now, the blame will shift from OBJ to Ya'Adua. (Baba Go slow is still having his honeymoon like Obama of USA

4. The Problem of Nigeria is tied to the entire electoral process. if we do things right the first time, all these problems will be gone. (Bush was a result of a flawed process and see what happened to America in the last four years)

5. OBJ committed some blunders and deserves some credit (by Merit or luck)


Nigeria : Good People, Great Nation!!!

I strongly disagree with you on this point. I want to state that 80% of Nigeria's problem started with OBJ. I understand a lot of yorubas would not want to see it that way, i understand, Nigerians are very sentimental people, we think with our hearts and not our head.

If you want confirm this assertion we have to back in history, It was OBJ that created Abacha and IBB. In fact OBJ was the Godfather of Abacha and IBB, and it was he that saw that they gained rapid promotion in the army. Remember Danjuma's advice that Abacha should be retired at the rank of Major which OBJ declined. IBB was alleged to do all OBJ's dirty work while they were at AFRC. Its also known that IBB was paying for OBJ's Godfathership, that he almost single handedly, with danjuma and abulsalami, foisted OBJ on Nigerians from prison.

Also it was OBJ that foisted Shagari ( a school teacher)on Nigerians as against Awolowo. Finally OBJ crowning glory was to foist a sick president on Nigeria (a man about to retire to his village). And some one will say OBJ is not Nigeria's problem?

On the flip side I can say OBJ is the Luckiest man alive, things always seems to work for him, and opportunity for greatness is always thrusted on him. His reigns always corresponds to very high oil prices and as soon as he leaves oil prices always crashes. And that is why we always have the illusion that he has good economic policies. Also international trends always seems to suit his government. In the new millennium, western nations as a policy wanted to write off third word debts, with counties like Ghana getting complete debt forgiveness, but Nigeria got about half our debt forgiven. Also GSM technology was ravaging the planet and counties like benin republic and Sudan quickly joined the revolution, But Nigeria a late comer made the most nice and made tons of dollars selling the license.

The reason why LSE and UN will always honour OBJ is that he sees himself as a world statesman and is ready to dance to their wishes. I cannot imagine any other Nigeria leader (Abacha inclusive) that would give away Bakassi without a fight). The west is just trying to show appreciation to OBJ for that.

Finally, i make bold to say that Nigeria would have been very different without the person of Olusegun Obasanja

huxley:
Hello Wirinet. Nice to see you again. Hope you are well.

It is a shame you are not able to access the links above as I feel the author touches on some very pertinent points. The Pastor's response above misss the mark completely and I would urge you to visit these links to get the picture for yourself.

As per the book you suggested above, I first became aware of it about a month ago when I saw a fellow passenger in a train reading it. I later check the reviews on Amazon, only to discover that it is a blend of science and eastern religion and mysticism. These sort of books are fast becoming fashionable, satisfying a desire for those unfulfilled by traditional religion. It would be presumptious to dismiss it offhand without reading it myself, but I generally do not read such books. Could you oblige me by sharing some of the most cogent lessons you have learnt form this book?

Hello huxley'
Sorry i could not respond earlier, i was out of station for a few days and only got back yesterday.

Although i am only half way through the book, i have not seen it as a science, eastern religion and mysticism. Also i do not agree with some of its assertions and conclusions but it explains perfectly, the link between the material universe and our effect on it.

My friend i have read a lot of books, and i understand physics and the relativistic aspect of particle physics extremely well. and i am coming to terms with quantum physics right now, and it is excitingly mind boggling. Please read more on quantum physics and you will discover that is postulations are in the realm of science fiction, but it has been experimentally confirmed to be the most accurate model of the sub atomic universe. I know you will find it hard to accept (even einstein, a co-discoverer of quantum mechanics disagreed with its conclusions until its death, and is regarded as the greatest mistake Einstein made). Since you said you are studying cosmology, i would urge you to read the book, and on quantum mechanics in general.

Later my friend.

Hello Huxley, Long time no see, i have been busy keeping body soul and family together. I am unable to access your links cause of the terrible connection i have, but from Pastor AIQ's response, i get the drift. And I agree partially with the pastor. Please i want to to get a very good book i am reading right now on the meaning of existence itself from a scientific angle. You will love it.
The title of the book is " The Dancing Wu Li Masters", it tallies with what pastor is trying to say. Also i suggest pastor should read it also.

The problem with Nigeria and Nigerians is that we live wholly on faith and belief and we love to be deceived and deceive others. How can anybody say Nigeria has had a semblance of development in the last 20 yrs or so or do people not know the definition of development?, In which areas have we developed?, infrastructure, human capital? health?. Please someone tell me. Nigeria currently generate less than 2,500 megawatts of electricity for a population of 150 million people and we talk of development.

Some people think we are developed just because foreigners bring their equipments and expertise, pay hefty license to enable them prospect and drill for oil, then share the proceeds from the sale of the crude oil with the government sleeping in Abuja, who go on to call the children{states} to collect their share, who go on to share with the local governments and this is the source of almost all economic activities in Nigeria. No development is taking place. Yes we have a lot of free money, which a lot of brave and greedy foreigner want their share of, so they troop to our airports. Is that a sign of development?.

You people pray that oil goes up to 60 dollars soon of your precious foreign reserve of about 50 billion dollars would be wiped out in a year, then we will really know the meaning of underdevelopment.

Further more i do not consider countires that have huge oil reserve and low population as Libya as developed. I think countries with any iota of development should include South Africa, Namimbia, Botswana and probaly Ghana {they are developming slowly}

@Poster,

Thank you for gradually coming out of the dark ages to which black Africans have been enslaved, mind body and soul, also thank you for raising observations i had seen but no body else is seeing.

Please go back and analyze christ's statement and words and see whether he could have said those thinks. I mean Jesus never spoke personally with anybody in a kind of dialogue, he was always speaking generally in a kind of monologue. For example if a question is asked of christ like what is your name?, he would go on and say something like why do you people of a wasted generation want to know my name, a name is not important but the work that is to be done, it is only yhe father that can know the true name which is pleasing to him , , he would go on and on as if he is talking to an audience, without actually answering the question to the person who asked. Please go back and re-read all christ's statements and words and tell me what you think.

Czarskit:
R u being forced into Christainity?
Who wrote the story on Creation? Was there a 'eye witness' ?. . .

Christainity is a faith-based religion hence no one is forced into it.

We believe in what we want to believe either lies or truth. . .
Proof/Evidence is not what makes us believe, it's the work of faith. . .The former only confirms the function/purpose of the latter.

Please go and read the history of European countries like Poland and Germany (Bavaria), whole communities were killed and taken over because they were Pagans.

Even in Africa Christianity was forced on our forefathers and they did not stand a chance at resisting, the Benin's and the Igbos put up a feeble attempt at resisting.

Now to genesis 1. It says in the beginning God created the universe, the question is what beginning?

correction, genesis never said God created the universe, It says in the beginning god created the heaven and earth. Now how do you think the person/persons who wrote genesis knew the extent of the universe, when they thought you could see the whole round earth from a mountain top. the whole world to them extend to only the middle east and parts of Europe.

Also the earth as a dry land was created later and not in the beginning, also heaven (firmement) was also created later, and mot the beginning.

jacobs123:
@ wirinet & profit$

when you guys claim that Ribadu is a media creation and ask for the name of the FBI director, my simple response is how come we almost know the names of all the bank MD's in Nigeria and most people (even those going on Frank Edoho's Who wants to be a Millionaire) will probably be clueless if asked for the names of CEO's of foreign banks like Citibank, Goldman Sachs, RBS etc and these includes people living in these countries.
It's good you guys have access to the internet and can come online and support the people who have made living a complicated matter in this country against a Ribadu whose actions made Nigeria become a nation where investors are willing to stake their money and some of these money trickling down to those of us who have skills but no relations in government (through Job creation).

Mr Ribadu has done his bit and I'm sure history and God are there to judge him. Mr Yar Adua has now got his own opportunity. Now that he's probably through with reversals and gotten Mr. Ribadu out, i hope we can get on with the business of governance.
It is however important to note that our children and young ones are watching and are forming their opinions. I grew up believing that the triumph of evil over good can only be temporal. I've since seen many things to suggest otherwise but my belief remains yet unshaken.

I do not like the accusations of Jacob123 and others holding his views, that anyone who does not support Ribadu must be supporting corruption or that they are benefiting from this government. I can tell you that I live in Nigeria and I am suffering the effect of corruption every day, in my house (no light or water, and i am struggling to maintain a small petrol generator and no water, as i have to buy water everyday), on the road (bad roads infested with armed robbers, area boys, armed police, Lasma, Lawma, FRSC, KIA, and council boys, i get home with a headache everyday). And there are myriads of other problems to many to mention.

You people should realised that there are three opinions regarding ribadu,

There are those that believe that he was a saint
There are those that believed that he fought corruption sincerely but made some mistakes, and i know a lot of people in this category, Gani falls into this category.
While the third school to which i belong believed he left the fight against corruption and stated using corruption for political purposes, Chief Enahoro belongs to this school of thought also, and i hope you are not saying that Enahoro condones corruption.

We are all here to exchange thoughts and ideas, that is the only way we can grow our sopciety.

@Poster

I would want to welcome you to the real world, being an atheist is not easy, especially in Nigeria. You will be ostracized by your family and the society at large. I have been an atheist for close to 30 years and my family up till date has not come to terms with it. My wife is a born again christian and insist i occasionally follow her to church, she sees me more as an unbeliever. But i make my views of christianity and religion known to her, and i show her the lies and fallacies of religion as a whole.

I think you have two problems here,

First you have not define your beliefs and world view, because when you stop believing in religion, a vacuum will be created in your world view. how will you fill that vacuum. Because if you do not fill it, you will be more confused than when you are religious.

I have to go now, will continue maybe tomorrow.

linususer: Kindly mention those that were picked up and did not loot Nigeria. Five names will survive.

There are dozens of people that Ribadu Locked up, sometimes for up to 6 months without trial. One i can remember was Otumba Fasewe , a loyal ally of Atiku, Just because he was the one that borrowed the 20 Million dollars the PTDF lodged with TIB. It was the courts that freed Fasewe form the Illegal detention. Also it was Ribadu that persecuted Mike Adenuga out of Nigeria without establishing a case against him or taking him to court. Most of the house of assembly members from Bayelsa State were Locked by Ribadu illegally without charging them or taking them to court, until they impeached their governor. The plateau State legislators were on able to function for fear of illegal arrest by Ribadu just because they refused to impeach Governor Dariye. The least of people Ribadu arrested illegally is endless, you just have to browse through newspapers from about 3 years ago.

People forget Ribadu's Job is to Investigate and prosecute if a clear case is established.

i am often very annoyed when i am told that it was Ribadu that stopped Odili from becoming vice president. When did his portfolio include vetting political office holders, we did not even know Ribadu had a case against Odili (he only said he had a case against 31 govs, which till today is only known to Ribadu). Yes if Odili Had a pending court case it would be naturally unappropriated for him to vie for vice president. But he had none. Please do not misunderstand me i am not saying Odili is not corrupt, all i am saying is that you can not punish a man based on Just suspicion, you have to present facts in a competent court of law

What does Ribadu and his fans want?

Does he want to receive full salary and allowance while sleeping in his bed?
Is he prepared to take orders from his superiors?

Does he want to stop work until all his court cases are dispensed with? which might take five years considering our slow legal process.

How can he escape the assassins he says are after him? even if he is reinstated as an AIG? remember a whole justice minister was assassinated.

Finally what does Ribadu want from a Police force and a government that is hostile to him. If he is so honest, brilliant and popular it would be easy for him to get a Job outside the Nigerian Police.

I pray my brothers and sisters in forum can look at the bigger picture, I am bold to say that " RIBADU DID NOT FIGHT CORRUPTION", he was carrying out OBJ's agenda, and he was carrying out his own agenda, he wanted to rise to IG in six years. Look ribadu was a media creation. Look how many Americans know the director of FBI or other similar anti-corruption agencies in the west. Most of Ribadu's convictions were political convictions e.g. Alams did not serve a day in prison ( Alams was in Hospital most of the time), same for Tafa Balogun (Tafa was under EFCC detention - Airconditioned room). They were asked to refund some of their loot and go home after OBJ had removed them from office using Ribadu.

So please who was actually sent to Kirikiri for Looting.

About the five people that was not corrupt among those Ribadu arrested, the question should be which political office holder that was not corrupt during Ribadu's Era. Please how come Alams was able to steal state treasury alone, his vice was not arrested, his accountant general was not arrested, the commisioner of finance went scot free. So Alams was able to do all the looting alone. Same for Tafa and all others Ribadu arrested, how come they had no accomplices, and Ribadu would say he fought corruption.

The most annoying one was vice president Atiku's case, how come with all his so called skills of fighting corruption, the only case he had against atiku was that he placed 20 million dollars of PTDF's money in ETB (Adenuga's Bank and TIB), we all thought Atiku was the most corrupt Nigerian alive (according to Ribadu). It is either Atiku was a saint, or he was far smarter than Ribadu or all his deals also involved Ribadu's Oga , which Ribadu is blind to, and the only deal without OBJ's involvement was the PTDF deal

Fellow Nigeria go back and read George Orwell's Animal Farm. It was the same scene as Ribadu's fight against corruption.

linuxuser:
You know people had accused him of selective justice and I have always said if justice is selective why did it select you? Justice does not select people who have nothing in their closets.

“There must be something you have done wrong that made justice to select you. I have not seen one person among the people this man picked up that didn’t have something to warrant the arrest. Why did justice not select me? Why did it not select you?

Source: Ayo Oritsejafor - Vanguard 29/12/08

I disagree with your assertions, selective justice is worse than no Justice at all. If i know that justice is selective, then all i have to do is just to lick the ass of those in power and i can get away with anything, then i will not care to break the law. Selective justice is usually a tool of establishing a dictatorship.