₦airaland Forum

helinues:
Their is possiblity of supernatural being but not in the form of any religion description

well, this is the smartest way to reasons.
We have consistently seen the inconsistencies in the religious belief systems.
They are yet to even understand what the property of a God should be.

spartan117:
The idea that microscopic organisms existed was a big fallacy before a microscope was discovered. But did that negate their existence?

The device with which you used to type this, the software that powers this forum, the Lamborghini's, Bugattis and Rolls Royce of this world were designed by someone right?
So why do you assume that the sun, the moon, the earth, the trees, the continents and the oceans as perfect as they seem don't have a designer?

Looking at the precision in the design of nature itself, the programming of the earth to revolve around the the sun and rotate around it's axis bringing day and night and seasonal changes at a specific period of time is enough to tell you that it was designed by someone. Something can never come from nothing, everything made was made by someone.

I belief it's because of all this that the Bible concluded that it will take a fool to say there is no God

The only thing wrong with your argument is that all the evidence we have today is suggesting that the narratives and books presented by religious people about their God is full of false narratives.

The universe cannot be created no destroyed because its a pool of Enegry. Your phone maker etc in the real sense didn't create anything, they only converted energy from one form to another.

Because we didn't see microbes before microscopes were invented is not sufficient evidence to say your God exist. You are cherrypicking a particular scenario to justify your belief system which has been proven times without number to be false

DeepSight:

mutable
/ˈmjuːtəb(ə)l/

adjective: mutable
Meaning - liable to change.

Can you spot your mistake?

Because, you see, perhaps you dont know the meaning of the word mutable. The universe is constantly evolving. Change is the only constant thing in the universe. Self-existent things do not change. They are absolutely immutable.

Energy is constant, it's immutable and it has always been immutable. Constant means "cannot change". Your argument is flawed in that regard. Whether or not energy is converted to one form or the other, it still remains energy.
Matter is energy in different forms, Energy is immutable and cannot be created.
Stick to that

When you speak about energy and matter being proportional - this does not render the universe immutable - because this does not mean it is not in a constant state of flux. It self evidently is. Matter, being mutable, cannot be self existent.

The universe and everything within is energy and energy is constant, it cannot change. Cannot be "created", that's the law. The universe cannot be created, it's an uncaused cause. Get that

Having said that I would not presume even that which you do because it is still an open question as to whether the universe is an open system or closed system, so you are on a slippery slope here. You really have to think carefully. So long as we have not answered the question as to what triggered the big bang - then much of the scientific presumptions of the present day are still skating on thin ice in this regard. And no, it is not science to say that nothing triggered it. That it just happened, abracadabra. That would be the sort of thing you accuse the religionists of believing in.

The universe is a closed system. I wonder why you have not moved beyond that and still debating it.
Because we have not answered what triggered the hug bang is not the reason why you should make things up from thin air, that's a fallacy of appealing to ignorance. "I don't know yet" is OK for any one who says he's "agnostic".

Why are you guys throwing about terms you dont understand. How does Occam's razor help you. It doesnt.

You are ht person who don't understand occams razor. You manufacture complex answers without evidence to a simple question and then wants everyone to accept your answers. By using occams razor, the universe can equally be the immutable uncaused cause. Since energy cannot be created so why should we created a complicated answer of someone creating the universe when we don't have evidence for that?

I am tired of saying it. If there was no time before the universe, how do you have an event - the big bang - outside of time? If there is no space outside the universe, how is the universe expanding and into what is it expanding.

It's unscientific to say time existed before big bang, it doesn't make sense. Our perception of time within this universe would never have started before the universe. Whether time exist in another universe is still a debate and there's no evidence for that.
Just say "I don't know", we are flinging out. You will be okay rather than making things up

DeepSight:
Because whatever is self-existent is also therefore immutable. Matter and the universe are mutable and as such cannot be self-existent.

According to the law of conservation of energy, the universe is immutable and energy has always remained constant. Going by the theory of relative, since matter is directly proportional to energy, your statement about matter.
Your statement universe being mutable is also not accurate unless the law of thermodynamics hasn't been falsified. So why can't the universe be the first cause if energy cannot be created nor destroyed and it has always remained constant?
What's wrong with usuing occasm razor sticking to what we know instead of creating more problems from thin air?

generally say I dont know. So I dont know what you are on about here. Whatever I put forward is just the limited bit that logic can afford from my humble point of view. I'm generally agnostic.

You are implying that something must exist outside of a universe without so certainty even when it's obvious that you don't know that and there's absolutely not evidence for that. That's appealing to ignorance

DeepSight:
You havent given this quite enough thought. In no event can anything arise from "nothing." If you dwell soberly and properly on the questions here, you should soon enough come to see that the only possible answer is that there is something or the other, or there are somethings or the other, which have always existed.

Such are called self-existent things - philosophers refer to them as fundamentally "necessary" things - as opposed to contingent things. Please take a moment to research "necessary things and contingent things."

Self existent things cannot but exist. They are fundamentally existent by nature and it is with self-existent things that the root of reality can be found.

what do you mean by something cannot come from nothing?
Will this not lead to infinite regress?
You are creating a vicious cycles because you have not applied the occasm razor.

If something created the universe then what created the something that preceded the universe and so on?
If you concluded that there has to be an uncreated creator then you must have committed a fallacy of special pleading.

The final question will now be "if there should an uncreated creator then why can't it be the universe?"

The argument of "something cant come from nothing" always becomes problematic for the proponent because it's impossible to avoid the fallacies it comes with.

Why can't you just stop at "I don't know"? Instead do making stuffs up

A belief in God is a complex fallacy.

Fallacy of appealing to ignorance because believers always see the need to fill their particular God in gaps that we cannot explain yet.

Fallacy of special pleading because believers believe everything must have a creator except their own particular God.

Circular reasoning fallacy because believers think whatever their holy book says is true because it's God's word.

Etc

All these fallacies won't occur only if we had just one evidence to test one of the 4,000ish gods in existence.
It's statistically insignificant to believe in God, the data and figures are clear to us that a God as described by the abrahamic relgion is false and when we combine other gods, it's still not evident that any God exist.

How can we have 4,000ish gods and no single evidence to test any?
That's less than 0. 00001 level of statistical significance. No sane person should bank on that figure

hupernikao:
You are the jury and the judge, so decide. I am only at your service. As you talk am, nah so it is.

But I hopeful hope that this your acclaimed high IQ is beyond paper and test, that you are using it to transform your business, work environment and people around you. The result of IQ is not on nairaland or online test it is found in your impact and relationship with others.

IQ doesn't mean you wont do well in your particular business. If you had an IQ above average, you would figure that out.
Low IQ means you will struggles when matters that has to do with critical reasoning confront you, it doesn't mean that you can't do well in a business you have learned or do well in jobs requiring directives.

You keep proving this study right with every post you make that theists are on the average less intelligent. You don't even know how IQ work

tctrills:
Now to personal insults and rudeness. I was going to read your reference but my job comes first you really should mind how you talk to others

Well, I don't mean to insult you. It's just clear that atheistd are averagely smarter, there are plethora of studies that proves it

hupernikao:
Sorry, it's IQ test you used to come to this your conclusion? What a conclusion

should we use Sunday school class test to reach a conclusion that is meant to measure intelligence quotient?

Ken4Christ:
Keep looking for evidence until the devil receives your soul in hell.

The Jews sought for evidence and Jesus gave them the evidence but they still don't believe him. They didn't know the time of their visitation. Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 on account of this.

Receive Jesus genuinely and you will experience a real transformation that will make you know that Jesus is real. He will change your life.

There's no evidence that the devil exists ken

CoolUsername:
Bragging about IQ is one of the most pathetic things someone can do. You can be intelligent regardless of your religious belief or lack of.

Great minds and great inventors through history studied, and worked super hard to achieve success in their respective fields. What they didn't do was sit around and talk about how smart they thought they were.

It's not bragging, it's reality which is hard to swallow.

It takes an IQ above average to be able to question religion and this doesn't mean that we don't have extraordinarily smart religious people, it only proves that religion is most likely harboring the extremely stupid set of people in the society. We have seen that consistently in their inability to grasp basic concepts.
Religion is also a heaven for conspiracy theories because it harbors the most irrational people in the society.

tctrills:
You did not read it, no one was claiming anything

You didn't go to the reference, don't be lazy. Learn to carefully read. However it doesn't mean that every athiest is smarter than every theists, these studies only proves that "by average", religious people tend to be less intelligent than irreligious people and are less successful in IQ tests and any test that has to do with critical reasoning. I mean, no one should be surprised with these result. Religious people make decisions by intuition then by critical reasoning, that's why they believe religious myths spontaneously.

Open the references

tctrills:
Please point to the studies. Most of the greatest scientific minds from time have been Men of religion. From the priests of Egypt and Babylon to Isaac Newton much of the world's greatest thinkers had a religious background.
So the studies you claim, how many years back do they go? how far-reaching are they? What variables were considered before coming to such conclusions?

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/26/are-religious-people-really-less-smart-on-average-than-atheists/

read through and open all the references to see the studies. Your link is not a study. It's a claim

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

Image123:
This one dey find consolation prize. He's constantly reminded that the FOOL has said in his heart that there's no God. The biggest Fools open their mouth and hand to say and type it.
Look around you, see your parents, siblings, friends, teachers, professors, supervisors, managers and bosses. All of them are theists, but you foolishly play the ostrich believing in some online articles. Use your God given brain man.

lol
You can't argue with well-documented studies

hupernikao:
Can I know the basis (research done) on your argument and the field or areas your specimen were tested that is so comprehensive to capture all minds.

Was the research done in area of
Science
Accounting
Education
Agriculture
Politics
Etc

Or you are reading a research done by your society and like minds.

It's just IQ test, it's not based on any field.
Can't you read?

nopsman1:
Miracle isn't a business. Anybody that says this isn't a MOG. If you know the meaning of business, you won't refer to a miracle as a business.

You are a brainwashed person. Miracles are scams to get people like you with lower ability to reason and question their veracity.
As long as people like you still exist, they will always get patronage.

Tell her that you will cheat if she can't satisfy you. If she doesn't try a therapist, if it continues then start cheating on her.

jesusjnr2020:
Lol! They think they know when they don't.

I'm good oh thanks. I hope you're fine too.

Nice to have you back.

It's funny how someone who believes the ridiculous stories of the Bible thinks he has a working Brain

You can't have an above average IQ and still think the earth was created in 6days, you have to be full of shit peddled by religion to hold such nonsense.

How can you believe that a human can walk on water and expect people to think that you are a smart person?

BRATISLAVA:
Thanks for checking up on me. It means a lot. I am touched.

Let me catch up on everything happening here.

God bless you.

Don't you think that it's people with IQ below average that will instantaneously belive the story of a snake talking to Eve?
Someone with a rational brain would probably ask for evidence for that event.

That's how religious people easily fail IQ tests, they are not smart enough to stuffs

hupernikao:
You must truly be a funny person in real life. Why not start a comedy skit.

If believers were smart enough. Most top scientists won't be atheists.
You can't believe in talking snake/human pathogenesis and expect to do well in biology or in physics. Your low IQ won't allow you excel in science.

hupernikao:
@LordReed we once discussed this. That so called atheist always claim to be higher in intelligence but you said you never read that before on NL. Now you have it. Prof Workch has done it again.

It's not a claim, study upon studies have proven that atheist score higher in IQ tests than average theists.
You can deny it all you want but facts don't respect opinions. You need to be smart above average to disbelief all the nonsense in the Bible.

People below average in intelligence like you are easily swayed to believe without evidence

Ken4Christ:
The greatest evidence is in you and that is your conscience. You are just suppressing just to maintain your preconceived opinions.

People must go to hell. In fact, over 95% of the world population will land in hell. Many are called, but few are chosen. If you want to continue on the wide road that leads to destruction, it's your choice.

conscience is not evidence.
That's not how evidence work Ken

jesusjnr2020:
Yet they're able to produce much smarter persons than the smartest irreligious?

They must be geniuses then!

Smart people like you
Who can't even figure that thay Einstein wasn't a religious person

jesusjnr2020:
I just gave you a few instances to prove how unfounded your phantom idea or research was, but keep basking in your imaginary intelligence if that illusion is what you want to believe.

"Average" relgious people are not smart

jesusjnr2020:
It's because their intelligence doesn't exist...

It's an illusion.

Ask Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein if you doubt this.

You see why we think religious people are less intelligent?
The research said "average".
Albert Einstein believes in the god of Spinoza, you are not mentally strong enough to understand what that means because religion has finished you.

petra1:
Do you know maths more than Adeboye and Kumuyi
Do you law more than Osibanjo .
You need to redefine the word "Inteligence" The world through their study could not find out that they have a creator.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV Strong's)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Christ is the embodiment of ALL KNOWLEDGE. Being born again is added advantage.

Why are you proving the study right?

Zhirinovsky:
There are evidences everywhere.
Pray you experience it.

Believers lack basic understanding of what an evidence is

Ken4Christ:
You are even one of the evidence that Jesus died and rose again. Can you tell us your birthday without making reference to Christ. I know there are other calendars but other calendars still make reference to Christ?History revolves around the greatest man that ever lived. Dates in history are either BC or AD. To tell you the fact. No one can escape Jesus. You either receive him as your Saviour or meet him as your judge. He is the one appointed to judge the dead and the living. Fear the only man who died and rose again. And he is coming back. If the grave could not hold him down, the sky cannot stop him from coming. And he doesn't need a jet to come. He travels with the speed faster than the fastest jet.

do you need A starter pack on how evidence are gathered?

Let me know

suffering:
A zoonotic strain. Okay. Viruses adapt to infect more organisms.

not really, alot of them lose their ability to infect us they mutate.
There are billions of viral species, only a handful can infect humans.

Why can't mumus say that it was made in the lab like covid19?

Several Studies have shown that atheists/agnostics on the "average" always score higher in IQ tests than theists and that more than 90% of affluent science professors are atheists (we can't argue that scientists are the most intelligent set of people in the world)

Some of the studies shows that, theists do badly in tests that involves critical reasoning and logic and that's alot of them don't do well is science hence they really do not understand the world around them. It was suggested that they rely more on intuition in reaching conclusions than critical reasoning and sound logic.

The question is: Does a belief in god make one less intelligent or are the less intelligent people more likely to accept a believe in God?

Ken4Christ:
The first evidence is the evidence of the scripture. Jesus said;

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6.

In another passage he said;

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The second evidence are fulfilled prophecies. There are over a hundred prophecies in the old testament concerning the coming Messiah and all were fulfilled in Jesus.

His lineage was predicted.
His town of birth was predicted.
His manner of birth was predicted.
His betrayal was predicted.
The amount used in betraying was also predicted.
His exact day of death was predicted.
His resurrection was predicted.

The third evidence is his resurrection from the death. His grave is empty. History confirmed he walked on earth. Our calendar is with reference to Christ.

The fourth evidence is the lives that is being changed daily by as many as accept him as Lord and Saviour.

The fifth evidence is me. He lives in me. He has given me his Holy Spirit.

The sixth evidence are the things happening before our very eyes. They are happening just the way the Bible foretold them.

The seventh evidence are those who have had spiritual encounter of both heaven and hell. They came back and told the story. Not every encounter is of God. But the encounters that agrees with God's word is what we believe.

I am amazed that you think that all these are evidence to a sane and rational mind.

Do you need a starter pack for how evidence are gathered, accessed and enumerated?