₦airaland Forum

@logica, hence your NL username. If you didn't surface here, I would have been surprised

@rancetech, I accept your apology.

To Answer the question:
Simple - it's in the bell hop's pocket

But ah! If it is that simple to answer, then it isn't so simple right? Nothing is at it seems. Let me take a crack at it. To me, it is more about how you think and not whether you get the answer correct. In fact, this would make a good interview question. He he, na so bobos go dey sweat. "I thought I was here for a JAVA position. Dis one wey dem dey ask me question about bell hop, na wa o!" :

The room initially cost $30 so they paid $10 each. Boss says room is actually $25. Therein lies the trick party of the question. They get $1 each back from the mgr so it is true that they paid $9 each but a ha! Isn't there a law out there that say matter can neither be destroyed more created but simply transferred? The money is still in existence. Other than being in the hop's pocket (obviously), the 3 guys paid $25 for the room, got $3 back as a discount and $2 is "stolen" by the hop. So you have:
$25 + $3 + $2 = $30.

The riddle is definitely worded wrongly. How would I phrase it? I don't even know myself, he he.

I would like to see a website for our country that is "with the flow" with respect to the latest web technologies and that also offers various online services.

Oh yes, it goes both ways pie but speaking for myself, I wanted to stay on point. I can also give you all a recent experience:

A friend let's me know that his friend who runs an NGO needs a website. I meet with the friend and terms are agreed upon. Because of the nature of the NGO, though the terms said 50%, i accept 20% but do the work of 50%. Client emails/calls me at this point pretty much at least 3 times a day. Then all of a sudden, dead silence. No matter the calls or emails to the friend, I get no response back. Yep, the site is still up as I have a weak conscience. Having said that, I am waiting for Dec. 31 to shut it off.

so yes, it goes both ways.

and on some realy dry months I am the friggin client!!!

How is that? LOL. You just made my day tomX

here, here pie1ct.

I like your style dayo. Perhaps you should be in public relations as opposed to web dev?

Yep it was the one that had to do with them being hacked:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-164883.0.html

Afam, you brought up a good point. It reminds me of how angry I felt when I heard that execs of the phone companies were flown in from their respective countries, as opposed to those companies using local talent. when I asked, i was told, "wat else do you expect from us nigerians? na we do ourselves"

pitiful!

So many dudes on this section are fond of making noise about logical thinking, and how you need it if you really want to be a freaky programmer, so here it is

I have seen this somewhere and was just about ready to give an answer until I saw the above. I personally consider this an insult to all who have said something about logical thinking and will personally not answer the question.

Others are free to do so but I won't. I am happy that at least you said it might sound childish, cos it really does.

I am happy I waited for at least one more response.  BINGO!  Thanks kehers, you hit the nail on the head and answered it the way that I would have.  I would have said, "not that you would, but you could".  I will try to combine all the answers given into one big response:

Using ULs as opposed to DIVs is as pure as CSS can get.  You can also style UL/LIs the same way you style DIVs (float, margin, padding, width, line-height, etc).  Also, I agree that DIVs are easier to maintain and read but disagree that DIVs load faster (I could be wrong and stand corrected but I disagree nonetheless).

When I said efficiency, I was going for fewer keystrokes.  On this ground, there is really no difference. So the answer boils down to semantic mark up.  Use UL/LIs for stuff that needs listing just like you would use tables for tabular data.  Obviously, "gridding" out a layout couldn't be termed as a list.

I brought this up because of a seminar a few of my co-workers attended recently:
http://aneventapart.com/events/2008/chicago/

This event is basically an annual gathering of the "gods" of css/xhtml, etc.  They posed the same question.  Everyone said it could only be done with DIVs.  Then the presenter re-did a site in front of them with ULs/LIs.  According to my co-workers, everyone after that presentation were like, "we feel so dumb.  of course it can't be done".  The presenter did go on to say though that from a semantic point of view, it didn't make sense.

So there you have it folks.  Thanks for participating.  I will think up more though that shouldn't stop you from doing same.  Note: Some questions I pose don't necessarily have a right or wrong answer. I ask them strictly to see how we all, including myself think and approach problem-solving.

By the way, wouldn't it be great if in 2009 moving forward, we only had posts such as these (as opposed to "site review", "web design vs graphic design", "FP vs DW", etc)?  In 2009 moving forward, I have decided to scale back my presence on the forum, based on some of the posts and unprofessionalism I have seen.  Should topics such as this become more common, I will be here every day.  In fact, I have chatted with many "undercover" members who have voiced the same sentiment.  many haven't posted for months.  I have combed through many African webmaster forums and I can safely say that even based on current posts here, none come even close.  Why not turn it up a notch?  Why settle for the same old stuff?

Remember, we should be here to learn and not to puff our chests.  Once again, thanks to all who participated.

dayotee2,

Based on your professionalism, I know you will succeed, if you haven't already. The last time I alerted the forum of problems with Punch (having to do with punchng.com and punchontheweb.com serving the same files as well as the former being flagged for a virus by FF), I almost got chewed by one of the "developers". In fact, the person even went as far as saying that uploading the same content to 2 separate urls, as opposed to redirecting traffic from one to the other, wasn't a big deal.

Thanks once again.

Exactly Yolu.

I do all my work exclusively based on word of mouth though I am thinking of advertising come next year.

I don't have time to waste when it comes to clients and pricing. Thank God I have a regular job. I stayed from January to August this year before landing a job on the side but since then, it has been one after the other. I have even had one who I turned down initially, call me back a month later to say, "I know you are a professional and have standards to maintain but a discount would be appreciated". Go figure!

I didn't see the issue as a BIG problem

Maybe not BIG but definitely ANNOYING

Am not sure am suppose to do this

I think you should. It letz them know that ppl are actually visiting the site. I would too

happy to tell you the problem has been fix

Yes, I forgot to update the post. I haven't seen the issue again. Sorry about that. Considering you helped them fix it as a non-employee, perhaps they should hire you as a consultant

Thanks for following up this issue on my, and perhaps others, behalf.

Very good responses from all so far.  I will allow for one more before I jump in.

Wow! don't you all just feel so good posting to this? Don't you all just love the professionalism in the answers?

hanen:
yes, it is "some kind of weird trick question" 

Seun:
Thanks

Others:
Keep them coming.  I will add my own 50 kobo here very soon.

Sorry for any confusion. Another attempt at explaining:

I have "an entire web page" consisting of 3 columns - left, center and right. What would be the best way to lay this out using CSS? DIVs or ULs and OLs/LIs?

Better?

The next time this happens, make una take advantage o!

http://odili.net/news/source/2008/dec/8/412.html
By Stanley Opara

In a bid to encourage youths to be self-reliant and information and communications technology compliant, the Lagos State Government, through the Ministry of Science and Technology, is set to empower 2,000 young people.

The ministry disclosed this on Friday.

The Commissioner for Science and Technology, Dr. Obafemi Hamzat, according to the statement, stated that the 2,000 people would be empowered via an ICT-based hands-on workshop on Personal Computer assembling/software installation and website design.

He said the training for the two courses would run concurrently for two weeks starting from December 15.

Hamzat identified the youths as constituting a major part of the increasing population of the state, which is currently about 18 million based on the 2006 census.

He added that a large number of the youths were school leavers with little prospects of securing employment or gaining admission into higher institutions of learning.

He said the Governor Babatunde Fashola administration took up the initiative to assist the youths in the 20 Local Governments and 37 Local Council Development Areas as part of the government's youth empowerment programme.

 The commissioner explained that at the end of the courses, the youths would each be given reference materials/web software for web design and PCs kits as well as onetime take-off grants.

He explained that the rationale behind the onetime take-off grant was to assist the grandaunts to start off in their chosen fields.

Hamzat said, "The funds are meant to be used in making business cards, flyers and to advertise their new skills to potential clients. The Lagos State Government is aware that some will spend the grants unwisely, but it is committed to assist the youth as the effort is geared towards the numbers that will have their lives changed by this initiative."

MT,

Speaking for myself, my comments were an indirect and nice/subtle way of saying that he needs to go back to the drawing board, scrap all he knows right now and start from the beginning, as in "hello world" - XHTML, CSS, JavaScript, Graphic Design. The works.

Sorry Wale, but MT made me go there. You have him to blame for any anger generated as a result of this post.

he he, Yolu, I have pretty much heard it all. Here is another story, in reference to your remarks about "sub-standard" work above (for those who have heard this story before, forgive me in advance for the repetition):

A friend of my in-law's was visiting the states and stayed with them while she was here. She mentioned she needed a website for her fashion boutique biz back at home. Naturally, my in-laws give her my number. She calls and the first things she says is (excerpts), "Hi. I need a website but please do something mediocre as I don't have that much money to pay". That pretty much said it all to me and I told her it would take me more time to do something mediocre than it would to do it right. Obviously, I didn't get the job.

It is one thing for a developer to develop a mediocre site. It is another when the client asks for one. As sad as it was for me to here, I must confess, that episode cracked me up.

Not to discourage you Yolu but, I have said it all, as far as sales techniques go and I can say that when it comes to most Nigerian clients in particular, it is like the proverbial female goat who, if you don't hit the breasts really hard, she won't produce any milk (it is better expressed in my language, sorry ).

Generally speaking, both on the developer and client side of things, we have a long way to go.

Here is another, by a fellow NLer: http://www.webpromag.co.uk/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/05/new_dnschanger_hijacks/

Researchers have identified a new trojan that can tamper with a wide array of devices on a local network, an exploit that sends them to impostor websites even if they are hardened machines that are fully patched or run non-Windows operating systems.

The malware is a new variant of the DNSChanger, a trojan that has long been known to change the domain name system settings of PCs and Macs alike. According to researchers with anti-virus provider McAfee's Avert Labs, the update allows a single infected machine to pollute the DNS settings of potentially hundreds of other devices running on the same local area network by undermining its dynamic host configuration protocol, or DHCP, which dynamically allocates IP addresses.

"Systems that are not infected with the malware can still have the payload of communicating with the rogue DNS servers delivered to them," McAfee's Craig Schmugar writes here of the new variant. "This is achieved without exploiting any security vulnerability."

The scenario plays out something like this:

* Jill connects a PC infected by the new DNSChanger variant to a coffee shop's WiFi hotspot or her employer's local network.

* Steve connects to the same network using a fully-patched Linux box, which requests an IP address.

* Jill's PC injects a DHCP offer command to instruct Steve's computer to rout all DNS requests through a booby-trapped DNS server.

* Steve's Linux box can no longer be trusted to visit authoritative websites. Although the address bar on his browser may show he is accessing bankofamerica.com, he may in fact be at an impostor website.

The only way a user might know the attack is underway is by manually checking the DNS server his computer is using (e.g. by typing "ipconfig /all" at a Windows command prompt). There are several countermeasures users can take, Schmugar said, the easiest being hard-coding a DNS server in a machine's configuration settings.

(In Windows, this can be done by going to Start > Control Panel > Network Connections and right clicking on Local Area Connection and choosing properties. Scroll down to Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) and click the Properties button. Then type in the primary and secondary for your DNS service. We're partial to OpenDNS, whose settings are 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220.)

In an interview, Schmugar said the DHCP attack doesn't exploit a vulnerability in either user machines or network hardware, allowing it to work with a wide variety of home and enterprise routers. It involves a ndisprot.sys driver that is installed on the infected box. Once there, it monitors network traffic for DHCP requests and responds with bogus offers that contain the IP address to the rogue DNS server.

DNSChanger has already been viewed exploiting router weaknesses to change DNS settings, but the ability to poison other machine's DHCP connections appears to be new, said Eric Sites, VP of research at Sunbelt Software. For the moment, the new variant doesn't appear to be widely circulated, but the prospect of a trojan that can poison other machines' DHCP connections suggests this one is worth watching.

So I have been thinking lately of how to make my code more efficient. I think I have the answer but in attempt to learn and be taught, I have decided to throw the question to you all:

Which is best for css layout? Using DIVs (floated) or ULs/LIs? State your reasons please.

As always, I will initially recuse myself from this debate until I get a few answers.

Based on what I see, your price range makes sense. What you coud do to improve? Study up on Photoshop/Fireworks or even consider outsourcing

LOL dammy, you took the words right out of my mouth

Please add the following to my list above:

7) probably because we don't code to specs ( I say this in light of kay's post.  Kay's post has "kay" leg  )

dammytosh, I don't know about the professional part of your statement although i will agree with you that it is better. Also, DIVs come up "cleaner" on 100% of browsers if you know how to use them. How do I know? I have been using DIVs since 2005 and my sites, without testing, come up okay even on PDAs

Per your browser testing, I wouldn't probably say go to hell though for those you don't test on. I would say go with what your logs say. Personally, I would say test for IE6+, FF1+ and Safari. If you can get ur sites showing on those, you are pretty much covered. Chrome? I haven't checked my sites on chrome but I am pretty sure it shows up well there too. Until it becomes more mainstream, I will probably do spot-checks on chrome at the most.

and that is the point mr moderator

Some questions aren't meant to be answered or answered correctly at that. Some questions are meant simply to see how you react when put on the spot, or under pressure. If you start sweating, crying, looking at the ceiling or scratching your head cos of an imaginary itch, sorry, but I can't work with you. Period!

This is why, when asking questions, you start light and easy to soften them up. then gbosa! you hit them with a random hard question out of nowhere

It's all about separating the wheat from the chaff man

1) Possibly because of 419 issues.

2) Could also be that unlike in other countries, we have laws *that we don't enforce*. In other words, why risk giving the job to a local person who might bail on you when for a little extra, I could have someone else do it elsewhere for me?

3) Maybe because it is cheaper. Many jobs have left the US for India, China and even Nigeria on account of this

4) Possible tax incentives

5) Maybe because they don't feel the local guys are professional enough

6) Maybe because we have more "companies (as in individuals whose offices are in their briefcase)" as opposed to companies.

The list goes on and on

How about this?

I pull out a folder with a stack of paper, then I ask him/her, "There are 100 other people applying for this same position. Why should I hire you and not them?"

Na so bobos go dey sweat

feyisara,

and indeed, some people will. All I, speaking for myself, am saying is what any business person, or even a bank, assuming you wanted a loan, would ask - what unique thing would your site offer? As you have said, you will be offering books that aren't currently free online, right? Go for it.

I am now afraid that if I ask if such postings will violate any copyrights, you will get turned off together, so I won't ask

Just as in everything in life, you don't judge a book by its cover.  Sure, there are bad apples out there but that doesn't mean that everyone is a certain way.

I have heard numerous complaints about unreliability but from my experience, it seems the clients concerned, though they complain, are willing to overlook such because, in my opinion, they are cheaper than say, me.  I have heard it all from disappearing with money, to lack of communication to outright incompetence yet again, such clients would rather, in my experience anyways, stick with such than switch to me.  An example: I once had a conversation with someone who complained that the "webmaster" he chose was not heard from in 3 weeks.  This was in spite of paying the person 50% up front.  When the "webmaster" finally appeared, she claimed to have had malaria.  Mad as hell, the client asked me to turn in a proposal, which I did.  He even went as far as telling me he liked my price.  Make we do job now? Na wey yawa com burst.  No deal.  After about a month, while doing what I do best (googling pplz information), I find out that lo and behold, he had another person do the site for him (I know because I saw the first version of the site which the other "webmaster" had done, albeit partially).

Per #2, I outsource to a fellow NL/WOA member.  I am at a point now where I would rather do the backend coding not to mention, I am not exactly the best when it comes to graphics design.  I have received numerous requests from others but I settled on the person I work with now based on: Integrity, looking at his code (from which I derive how he thinks, how he approaches problem-solving and how efficient his code is), his ability to communicate and keep me abreast at all times and (note this because this is important.  I don't mind paying 1 million naira to someone who is capable.  Why not?  All I have to do in turn is transfer the same cost to my clients ) lastly, his pricing.  In fact, when it came to the last factor, he mentioned and I didnt' even bother negotiating because in my opinion, he is worth it.  In fact, if I could, I would pay him more.  In fact, the trust b/w us is so great that, even after the first client we worked together with didn't pay on time, he trusted me enough to work on another site I outsourced to him.  In the end, I paid him a bit extra.

Bottom line, clients need to realize that generally speaking, you get what you pay for.  If they want to go cheap, hey, I am all for saving money and cutting cost but they risk running into the aforementioned issues.  It's a given.  The good ones are out there.  The clients just need to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff. More importantly, when the proverbial wheat is separated, such wheat needs to be treated well so as to show appreciation and to encourage such to do even better.

Finally, in a country like Nigeria where the law practically doesn't exist, not to mention enforcement of existing laws, until we are at a stage where dubious ppl are brought to justice and not just let through the cracks, in general, it will be more of the same.

uspry1,

What I mean is this: take someone who does just front end work and then go with them to someone who knows nothing about the web then both of you should describe what you do. Chances are the front end guy will say, "just visit www.whatever.com". Person checks it out and has an idea of what he does. How would you explain what you do to such a person? That's my point.