₦airaland Forum

hmm mustay, u for run for politics. Could there be a relationship b/w criticizing and "for them to correct their anomalies"?

Anyways, just checked out business day. Clean as hell (which I like) and well laid out but I didn't quite like the perpetual vertical scroll.

If you want to talk about bad layout, let's go back to Punch Those ads at the top gotz to go! On a 1024x768, all i see are the ads when I go to the site initially.

likewhat,

To me ther is a difference:

Web design to me deals with using photoshop/fireworks et al to produce a creative which someone like me, a developer, slices and dices, combines content (XHTML), presentation (CSS), behaviour (JavaScript) and business logic (PHP, JSP, etc) to produce a website with a good user experience and from which users get value.

This is not to be confused with a software developer who deals solely in backend languages like Java, .net, etc. who can work either on the web or on stand-alone apps.

Make sense?

Mustay,

About a year ago when I was looking for news sites to update my news site with, I stumbled upon that site you provided and went through them all. In the end, I settled down on 8, based on content and how I felt it best applied to my target audience. Of that 8, less than half have RSS feeds which means that each morning, I have to go through those that don't and manually comb for news that I need. Sucks!

IMHO, these are perhaps the worst of the worst.  Gives me nightmares daily ever since I ran into them:

http://www.verbatimnewsonline.com/
http://www.pioneernewsonline.com
http://www.weeklyinsightng.com

By the way, notice the similarities b/w the first 2? That's right, they were done by the same person.

It's one thing to boast of having an online paper but come on, itz totally another to produce something that is visually appealing and that begs me to come back for more.

Here are a couple I actually like:

http://www.vanguardngr.com/
http://www.thenationonlineng.com/default.asp

I would add http://www.independentngonline.com/ to the list but they seem to have a disease which makes them associate the wrong photos with the wrong stories.  Like once, they were talking about football but had the photo of Serena Williams next to it.  Seriously! 

@henen

It's the sharp edges. I don tell am make im dey use rounded corners small. Just small. It wdnt hurt.

lol webdezzi,

The bias is obviously clear. Pankere stick? Sha, it's good that I watch Jet Li's fearless like 3 times a week

xclusiv,

Well said

yeah samir,

In all things that have to do with naija biz, my first question always is how do they intend to deal with unreliable power and water supply.  Sure they can run gens but their economies of scale better be damn strong otherwise like those I know, most of their monies will be used to offset fuel costs, to the detriment of the business.

Having said that, I do wish them luck.

Yet another tutorial for those who say all I do is bash, bash, bash and nothing else

Hv you ever wondered how I go about reviewing websites? One of the techniques I use is the debug technique where I, via FF (u cd also include it in the actual html file)'s "edit css" feature, turn on borders of elements that shdnt be there (images without alt tags, images without titles, empty DIVs, to check whether you are using TABLEs or DIVs, etc).

This css is pretty powerful and was actually written by someone many regard as the CSS god, Eric Meyer. Check it out, play with it, let me know what you think and spread the word:

div:empty, span:empty,
li:empty, p:empty,
td:empty, th:empty {
padding: 0.5em;
background: yellow;
}
*[style], font, center {
outline: 5px solid red;
}
*[class=""], *[id=""] {
outline: 5px dotted red;
}
img[alt=""] {
border: 3px dotted red;
}
img:not([alt]) {
border: 5px solid red;
}
img[title=""] {
outline: 3px dotted fuchsia;
}
img:not([title]) {
outline: 5px solid fuchsia;
}
table:not([summary]) {
outline: 5px solid red;
}
table[summary=""] {
outline: 3px dotted red;
}
th {
border: 2px solid red;
}
th[scope="col"], th[scope="row"] {
border: none;
}
a[href]:not([title]) {
border: 5px solid red;
}
a[title=""] {
outline: 3px dotted red;
}
a[href="#"] {
background: lime;
}
a[href=""] {
background: fuchsia;
}

Nope, I chat to many (many of whom want my ass more than my brains. Could you be one of them? ) and I doubt your YIM name is dual core.

So please send me another email. Thanks,

LOL,

Let the wars begin!

Gotta love it!!

olushola, i probably wouldn't worry abuot ppl turning off flash. If I am correct (I stand corrected), I think at last count, more pple had flash enabled than javascript.

Having said that, sure, there should always be a way to ensure that your sites adhere to progressive enhancement and graceful degradation. for javascript, you would use the NOSCRIPT tag. I don't know what it is in flash though as I don't use it.

Dual_core

do wat? I honestly don't recall. In other news:

That is what I have been saying. No need creating 2 separate pages when you could combine everything onto one form and dynamically display one field or another by passing a name/value pair. Heck, you could even, again dynamically, prefill certain fields based on the name/value pair.

Oh well, as I said, I am not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Abidemi,

I am still of the opinion that they are one and the same thing. However, I was taken to school on this in recent times. Check out https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-172133.0.html and judge for yourself.

For the record, I still think there is no difference between the two but hey, I can't be right all the time.

Abidemi

No disrespect either but 2 wrongs don't and shouldn't make a right. If that were the case, are you telling me that if you found out today that Bill Gates didn't wipe his buttocks after taking a dump, that you wouldn't either just because he is one of the richest men in the world? If so, I tip my hat to you.

Which takes more time:

1) Copying and pasting an email address into your email program and trying to figure out how best to frame your question

2) Clicking the mailto link, waiting for your email program to load and going through #1 above (in part)

3) Filling out a form with all the information that the company expects of you.

You be the judge.

Again, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Otherwise again, drinking urine just because your girlfriend does wouldn't be justified.

By the way, most business sites (I know this from working with such) design their sites *on purpose* in such a way as to confuse visitors so they don't know how or who to contact. Why? because attending to customers (some of which are, letz face it, plain stupid) costs time and time is money. Just thought I should throw that out there.

webdezzi,

A link to that form should please be posted here (note: not the feedback form but the contact form) so that I can stand corrected. Again, I am not knocking the site. As my original post goes, I actually like it. I am just getting frustrated at what seems like a trend amongst us developers in Nigeria which is that many sites don't have contact forms and where they do exist, many aren't validating either on the front or back ends. It needs to stop IMHO.

Thanks,

3 months? na wa o. so let me get this straight - I have a good biz idea, want to use a .ng domain but have to wait 3 months for it? Na wa o!

@idhigbe,

I assume you don't count me as a guru cos I am not. That title to me is reserved to those who have been tried and tested in the theater of coding experience and I am yet still a baby

@Abidemi,

I don't mind contributing but without money, I won't moderate, sorry. As Shina Peters used to say, "Money for hand, back for groooooound" I would also take another line of his to heart, "me i no dey play with women o (alright). I no dey play with women at all o. "

@Dual Core and his ilk
I knew u guys were toasting! I have seen it all and could smell it from 10 miles away.

idhigbe,

i think u need to tell that to whomever's contact info you see on the whois. I am merely reporting

Wat offer? I am chatting with 5 others right now. Too bad u will hv to wait till later as I am about to log off

@Abidemi

1) this post is about CONTACT forms. I only used etisalat's site as a reference. There are CLEARLY many other sites out there WITHOUT contact forms and others have agreed more or less that this is true.

2) I am actually not in a rush.  I clicked 3 levels deep on the contact section.  There is a book called, "Don't make me think" and I suggest you use it.  Users are accustomed to seeing a form when they click "contact us" and not a series of links.  When I see a link, I have to pause, waste precious time and ask, "okay, so what do I do now?  Which should I click?"  Those options could have been rolled into a dropdown.

Lessons of the day:
1) Don't RUSh to ASSUME because it makes an ASS out of U and ME and I don't want the "ME" part in there.

2) READ and UNDERSTAND

Thanks Abidemi.  I wasn't aware of my not knowing the difference b/w the 2.  Sorry about that.  I will punish myself by banishing myself to kirikiri.

Now back to your post.  2 MAJOR flaws:

1) This post is about lack of contact FORMS and not contact us/feedback pages, and

2) I just click both links and NEITHER had a form on it.

Now, who's the dumb one? and on that note, based on your IQ, I won't bother checking your response to my earlier post.

and watz wrong with a template anyways? Don't you mean "boiler plate (which I covered here some months ago)"? Sometimes it actually makes ones work more efficient. Even if it were template, he has done well with it.

Remember, with over 100million websites out there, there is a big chance that even if a site were done from scratch, that it will look like at least 100 other ones out there.

So that I am not accused of looking before I leap or of bashing, please click this link and tell me what you notice. Then report it here. I will then give you the site's history if I get enough responses that I am looking for:

http://www.pioneerng.com/

and who said you need maths, per se? All you need is the ability to think logically. if you have that down, learning a particular language is a matter of syntax.

At the end of the day, there are different types of soup but they are all "soup". How good of a cook you are of any soup depends on your ability to learn how to cook and your ability to try out new things.

In the end, practice makes perfect.

geez! Simple question has turned into some's quest for notoriety thus confusing the poster even more

Dual Core, at least I was right in some sense

Per your "Nigerian sites" comment, look, I love my Nigerian developers but as I have been saying for months, we can't just let things slip by and be partial. I have read some posts on here to the effect that Nigerian developers "suck". I don't agree with that statement but believe we have some ways to go. I was chatting with someone earlier today and told him that our problem isn't coding. Many at times it is the ability to think logically. You don't just read some ebook you got from google and call yourself a "webmaster". Even I don't call myself that. Besides, what does that mean? A good developer is always improving upon him/herself. You may be the greatest coder in the world but if you can't layout a simple solid architecture, of what use is your coding prowess?


Per the tutorials on mail et al, I hereby challenge you, as I have challenged others to go through the webmaster section of NL and do a scoresheet of tutorials I have posted here (including a free ebook) vs tutorials you have posted. When you are done, I expect an apology for the direct/indirect insinuations. I also invite all to contact me privately for my portfolio. I am not all talk. Believe me, all I want is for us to move from the proverbial milk to bones. *Not all* Nigerian-based developers are bad but I think I can make a general statement based on what I see on NL. Some of us have a long way to go.

webdezzi,

I hate that too but I think you might agree with me that you hate this even more: You inadvertently click the email address link and since you don't have Outlook, you have to wait as outlook **slowly** loads up. Then you have to close the window and then click the "don't save this email address" prompt button, all because some "webmaster" didn't put a form on the page. By the time all is said and done, you might have forgotten the reason why you wanted to send the email in the first place

I have heard a lot about Etisalat lately and so I decided to check out their site. On a scale of 1 - 10, I would give it a 7.5. The othe 2.5 isn't a knock. The site's layout is simple (what I like) but I feel it could have been better sha. For instance, i went to the "contact us" page and was shocked to see there was no form on there.

This got me to thinking, maybe not being in the country, there is something I am missing. Perhaps those of us living in Nigeria can help shed better light. Why do many of our Nigerian-based sites not have contact forms? Here are some reasons I have come up with. Feel free to agree or disagree by posting your responses:

1) Developer doesn't know how to layout a form

2) Developer is unable to write the necessary code to validate form fields, both on the front and back ends. So he doesn't even add forms to the site and smartly discourages the client against using one.

3) Developer isn't even aware of the existence of forms.

4) Company can't afford to pay someone dedicated to replying emails and routing them to the appropriate departments

5) Company doesn't want to deal with emails and prefers to be contacted via phone or in person.

6) Developer is so used to using a WYSIWYG tool so much so that if they can't figure out how to get it to layout a form, since they can't code from scratch, they don't even bother learning how.

None of the above are legitimate reasons not to use forms. Having said that, a contact form is a must. Not everyone has the luxury of (not to mention, they may not even be knowledgable) having a calling card handy to start making calls from abroad. Some may not even be aware of time differences. Someone like me hates to be put on hold by customer service. With a form, you fill out the form and don't have to bother about the above, among others. Of course, the company on its end has an obligation to answer such emails otherwise the purpose of the form is rendered useless.

Your thoughts/comments please.

otoidea,

I totally understand.  On a side note, this is how questions are answered, concerns are addressed.  There are some on here who, even if it was the client's request, would have said something like, "this is what the client wants.  I won't change it".  In other words, they would have been harsh in their response as though my commentary were a direct afront on their manhood and performance levels.

Per validation, what I have done in such cases is provide 2 fields, one for area code (usually 4 digits at the most) and then a phone number field (usually 10 digits at the most) with appropriate labels.  I would also include examples so there is no misunderstanding.  I would then validate both fields for integers separately, then combine them before either sending it to someone via email or storing it in a db.

On another note, I feel you should have created a separate thread for this as some ppl will seldom come to a thread that has been going for a while. I am one of them. I guess my clicking to read the post was God's doing

Once again, kudos.  I am very impressed.

Pretty neat kudos.  Awesome!  I must confess this is the first Nigerian-based flash site that I like.

Correct the following though, or at least take them into consideration:

1) reservations form doesn't validate phone number properly (I entered 1234 and it took it)

2) I don't think there is a need to loop the background music.  I found it annoying after the first 3 loops or so

3) I would remove the counter. I think that's 20th century.  Besides, if you get a low count, it might make people think the site isn't credible

4) I think the contact page deserves a form. For example, I probably had some cash to spend and this is the only time (5am GMT) that I have to spare. It is too late for me to go buy a phone card, not to mention, I might not be aware of the time difference so a form would be extremely helpful here. U c where I am going?

That's it from me. Kudos once again.

goldenimp,

My favorite past time is googling. When I am bored, I google 

I have been googling for PDP's website for at least 3 years but came up with nothing, even after going past page 1 of the results page.  Today, I read an article talking about them meeting in Akwa Ibom State for a conference or whatever.  Then I say make I google am again, after about a year.  Then I saw the nightmare on elm street LOL.  I wanted to dismiss it until I saw that the info on the site is current.

We have a long way to go in terms of client education, I swia!

cmon,

EVERYTHING about the site is wrong and that is what happens when you give someone who is unaware of our culture, a job to do.

I am actually in negotiations with a Nigerian client (to do a site about Nigeria) right now where he had the guts to tell me that he has solicited proposals from developers in India. I guess it was his way of saying I should go cheap on the prices. Tell me how an Indian will know anything, even after reading about it, about our culture. What's worse? do you think the average Indian man would give his job to a Nigerian? Tomorrow now, something goes wrong with the site. That is when they remember that you are around. Then to add insult to injury, they still insist of a cheaper price. They forget that it is cheaper in the long-run to pay more now than in the future when all hell breaks loose.

Again, na waiya.