₦airaland Forum

here here pie1.

I personally foresee a day when a whole new business in Nigeria springs out the need to test. We need it big time.

In the US, some testers get paid major bucks.

JJYOU
It depends. It's all about quality of service and branding. If I am treated well, I don't mind paying extra. Of course, in the end, market forces will determine the price, granted Nigeria tends not to follow the normal models.

This might be an article u could write for a popular newspaper there. I for one never even heard of this and wouldn't had I not been a member of NL.

@webguru
Yeah, I was thinking more of a design as in actual redesign too. I havent checked out the site in full but I dare say it lacks certain things like providing online services. Wouldn't it be cool if you could fill out some form online and get a printed pdf from it? Also, some functinality needs to be stripped or rethought. Example: I clicked on "photo gallery" then i had to click a radio button to choose. Then the page reloads with a gallery that i had to scroll horizontally to see. Sucks big time.

@likewhat
Like email me.

seton

That is what you get when ppl, even if they choose to agree to disagree talk in a civil manner as opposed to a "do you know who i am?" manner. In the end, we all learn a thing or 2.

send me an email

@Yolu
Sorry for the miscommunication. Having said that, I have never gotten the issue that you point out. Just do the math well and you shouldn't have it. I have never had to do special hacks for IE6/7 with respect to floats. Perhaps a code sample would help?

@IBEX
Problems in IE? Are your surprised?

@Python
List the issues, or at least a few. Let's discuss and see how we can help with respect to AJAX

uv gotta give it to him - excellent marketing technique. If he were being paid per click, he would be an instant millionaire, he he

Yeah Omni, it can get a little hairy for the uninitiated.  Perhaps my FREE ebook could help.  Email me for it if you want.  It deals with all the CSS hairy areas in less than 20 pages

It took a lot to come up with it and I should honestly charge for it but for my brothers/sisters, I decided to give it out for free with no strings attached.

not to mention, someone put up a post on this 2 or so wks ago and I gave the same answer

@webmonk

I assume by the time IE8 rolls out, you will be adding another conditional for that and then for 9, 10, etc? 

I guess my point here is that sooner or later maintenance will become a bitch.  Can you imagine updating the width of one block of CSS code in 5 places?  Not to mention, suppose I get hired by your company and am assigned to do maintenance on jobs you did before I came in, if I don't understand what you did chances are that I might forget to update a file or 2.  Another scenario: What happens when eventually all browsers (I pray this happens some day) become truly w3c compliant?  Those conditionals might throw off stuff on prior sites which could lead to angry clients 

Don't get me wrong, I have used this technique myself but I limit it to IE7 and at the most, it has only 2 or 3 blocks of code.

@Yolu

the box-model exists in ALL browsers, not just < IE5.5.  It is a feature of CSS and not the browser.  With respect to floats, it exists even in FF.  The problem is that (and I am assuming here) you don't quite understand the box-model.  Here is why one of your DIVs floats to the bottom:

Suppose you have this scenario (and I have this in my FREE ebook):

<div id="container">
    <div id="a">blah left</div>
    <div id="b">blah right</div>
    <br class="clear" />
</div>

Note the BR tag. I could have used a DIV, but again, I try to avoid DIVITIS (similar to using TABLES, TRs and TDs).  Code for CLEAR would look like so: clear: both.  If you don't do this, in FF and other standards-compliant browsers, content will bleed through your DIVs.

If CONTAINER is width: 100px, and A and B are floated LEFT and RIGHT respectively and have widths of 50px each, no problem. Now, suppose you wanted to add a margin of even 5px to A (all sides).  B will drop to the bottom.  Why? You got it - box-model.  Explanation:  The width of A has changed from 50px to 50px + 5px (left) + 5px (right) = 60px.  Now remember - your CONTAINER is width 100px but both of your floated DIVs have a combined width of 110px.  So how do you solve?  Read on.

You have to reduce the width of A or B by 10px to account for the 10px of margin you added otherwise, B will drop to the bottom.

Don't take my word for it though, copy my code and try it out for yourself.  You might want to take my word though.  Why? I put up my first 99% CSS site using floated DIVs (I have to reserve 1% because I use tables where tabular data is present ) in 2005 and haven't looked back since 

he he, my pleasure.

See, I am not that bad after all

It plays a huge part in whether or not I choose to stay at a particular company. Due to (dirty) office politics, I left a comfortable job that I held for 4 years. Everyone was always trying to one-up you and trying to make you feel like you were dumb while climbing to the top of the corporate ladder, using your back for support. Now, I work for a company which, though there is politics (it exists everywhere by the way), it isn't as profound as it was at my former employer's.

Having said that, I am now like a cat with its ears perked up and roaming for faint sounds. Any nonsense, and I am out the door. I am happy that I am in a profession where at least for now, you can pretty much get another job if you wanted it within a week or two, as long as you can prove to your interviewers that you have marketable skills.

@poster
Follow this thread and your problems should be solved; https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-190515.0.html

Lesson of the day:
If you knew how to hand code, you could develop your site in notepad and have more control over what you are doing. Reliance on WYSIWYGs can usually lead to such frustrations on your part with you not knowing how/where to start.

@Don4Life
Go learn AJAX.

@omni
One way could be to either email whatever email address is on the site or do a whois and contact the developer/admin directly. I did this with my state's website and I am currently talking with the guy who did the site. Chances are he won't pay for anything that is why I am giving him theories and not actual code but at least there is communication going on.

Another way could be to target some magazine/newspaper that is highly read in the industry and write an article (make it a nice, diplomatic one ) on this very topic and not only lay out the problems but offer solutions.

@josy
nice one. I did say you should send me an email and/or chat with me. I won't post anything on a public domain. Sorry. So the ball is back in your court.

@gamine
Yes, this is a VERY BIG ISSUE. Most of the crap we see out there today is because of a lack of understanding of CSS and it's power.

@yolu
I would steer clear of divs within divs. That is a serious disease called divitis. Yes, you can use padding and margin at the same time. If you remember what I said earlier about box-model, it can get very tricky. Just remember the order from "box" or content in question: P(adding), B(order), M(argin). In other words, padding is the distance b/w the block and its content, border is what it is, a border and margin is the space b/w a block and blocks surrounding it. An example:

I will use inline styles for this which isn't advisable. Plug this into a browser:

<div style="margin: 10px 10px; padding: 10px 10px; background-color: #000; border: 1px solid #00f;">Content for Block 1</div>
<div style="margin: 10px 10px; padding: 10px 10px; background-color: #f00; border: 1px solid #ff0;">Content for Block 2</div>

@omni
Before implementing anything given by the YUI, make sure you check their "Graded Browswer Support" section. This lists what they have tested their code on. I would stick with the A+ and A grade browsers. I bring this up because this block of code may not work on IE6 and/or 7 and/or 8. I stand corrected though:

q:before,q:after {
content:'';
}

Uhmmmm, CSS isn't a problem.  It is THE solution

The problem is that most people don't understand it.  What gets people the most about CSS is the box-model.  If you can't grasp this, you won't get 90% of CSS.

Another problem is that some are not aware of the reset.css technique as set for by the YUI (Yahoo User Interface) group.  This is where (and they provide this code for you free of charge) EVERYTHING is set to zero (margins, paragraphs, lists, etc).  This will make all browsers behave alike.  At that point, what you then do is, via IDs or CLASSES, you redefine your margins, which will at that point behave the same on ALL browsers.  Check out the YUI reset.css or make one of your own.  At the very least, you should have * { margin: 0; padding: 0; } as the first line of your code.

Yet another problem is setting heights in CSS. In Firefox, content in blocks with a set height overflow whereas in IE, the blocks automatically adjust.  Yet another tricky issue is floats.  If you don't clear your floats, you get the same problem.  I wrote a whole FREE ebook on this available on request.  The last time I advertised it, I got maybe 5 responses at the most.  Tomorrow you say all yawa does is cause trouble 

Testing-wise, as you have said, test for IE6/7 and Firefox.  You have pretty much covered I would say 80% of the population.  Then do a quick spot check on Safari.  If you code to web standards though, covering the first three pretty much takes care of itself.  I speak from experience.

So remember folks, CSS isn't the problem - it's the solution.

Let's read the last part of my last post, herein reproduced (now you are making me feel like a lawyer ):

Frequency of updates:
Wasn't updated even once till July. After that, it was updated once a week, then 3 times a week. 3 weeks ago, it started having "bandwidth exceeded" displayed on the home page. Now, the site says, "address not found".

Note the bolded portion

kehers:
If you weren't sure, why not ask instead of making assumptions?

here, here Omnipotens

You observed well that I didn't say "site review" or "what is wrong with these people?" or whatever along those lines.  I simply asked, how would we make the site better.  NL is a pretty popular site.  You never know who is reading it.  

I can tell from experience that I am a member of a Yahoo group hosted by my state indigines in the diaspora.  It has over 1000 members.  There were rumors amongst us that even the state governor is a member but since he or anyone in his council never responded, we had no reason to believe this.  In August, we had our annual convention in the states and he was invited and was there.  One of the first things he said was he was aware of the forum and that we should ignore most of what was written on there and that if we had questions, to ask him.  Go figure.

Back to this site.  Again, you never know who is reading this.  Supposing someone came up to you and asked, we have a budget of so and so.  We saw your post on NL.  Since you claim to have the silver bullet, here is the budget.  Put your money where your mouth is.  Besides, what is wrong with using a site to learn better?  By the way, I am not asking for how the site would be redesigned.  I am asking for your input in terms of how you would make the site better, as-is.

kehers:
I would steer clear of the "what will they do anyways?" mentality.  Not good.  In fact, don't even look at it from that angle.  Just imagine this were another country's site and I was seeking the same answer.  For example, www.usa.gov/ is not the best in the world but compared to our site, there is no competition.  It's not about being flashy or design or whatever.  It's about a good user experience ours unfortunately doesn't give you that.

So since no one wants to jump first into the deep end of the pool, here I go:

1) They need to get rid of the horizontal scroll
2) The nav section at the top needs to be more lively.  That background is making the items invisible.
3) Those 3 bars below the nav have to go
4) If you select a city under "weather report", you get a broken link - it needs to be fixed.
5) The site needs to be spruced up with more (positive) images of Nigeria, preferably, tourist attractions.

There you have it.

Kehers and all those who think like him with respect to my posts:
No need to ignore my posts o.  I don't know it all but do know a thing or two.  I am just trying to help.  Rather than ignore, I suggest you read them, learn from them and most importantly, correct me where I am wrong so that we can all LEARN something  

Omnipotens, newsflash: Punch is the most read, at least based on stats on Alexa. I think it's just a marketing punchline.

In other news:

Here's another - www.pioneerng.com

Date Launched:
March, 2008

Frequency of updates:
Wasn't updated even once till July. After that, it was updated once a week, then 3 times a week. 3 weeks ago, it started having "bandwidth exceeded" displayed on the home page. Now, the site says, "address not found".

here, here goldenimp.

Besides, I am not here to compete with anyone or to one-up anyone. I am here to learn.

Sun news online: why is that site up and running for what it seems only half the time? Sometimes, I visit and the site just hangs? Very discouraging. Could someone in the know explain what is happening? Is it that they didn't get enough bandwidth for the traffic they get or what?

@gamine,

I feel ya sister. At times you don't reply and your credibility is at stake. This is one of them. As you noted, no one (well a few have actually) has taken me up on it. My email address is in the public domain here. I personally don't seek to see others work unless they ask for a review. I am not here to say, "do you know who i am?" or "I know 100 programming languages" or to basically one-up anyone here. I am here to learn that's all.

tumfulu,

Apparently, your favorite past times are ad hominem attacks and a lack of english comprehension. If you are out of school, I would like to know how you did in English. If you aren't, I would like to know who will be marking your english paper(s) cos I need to sign him up for some overdose of paracetamol.

Please read post #3 above to answer your request, you twit.

Mustay, dare I ask if you have something against BDay?

You post over 20 links yet all you seem to talk about is BDay?

Nothing dey o. Just curious.

As I have stated ONE THOUSAND AND ONE TIMES!!!!   

You won't see it here.  If you do want to see it, email me. IT IS THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!

Surprisingly, NO ONE has ever taken me up on the challenge.

Now, back to the topic at hand: How would you make the site better? 

Here is the website of your beloved nation:

http://www.nigeria.gov.ng/

I won't bother going into a critique.  Simple Question:

how would you make it better?

note: No need writing the best essay ever written. An unordered list will suffice

You guys might want to pull up a chair and sit down because it might be a while, with respect to all browsers implementing any spec in its entirety. Believe me, I know - I have been coding since the days of HTML3.2 and when you had to use javascript to sniff various ".x" versions of a browser and had to sniff various OS versions to boot

and what do you propose as a first step. Me? i joined www.webmastersofafrica.com - based on conversations with the owner, we might be at a point where we will be meeting face-to-face very soon

I personally look forward to it. For one, I am sick and tired of using different syntax for embedding flash when I have to deal with flash movies on a page where I have form fields and the fields bleed thru the movie

Omni, I believe the info you seek is here, just in case you haven't seen it already: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/

Me? I no go send any articles until I see it in action. I have too much in my head as it is

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10302008/business/frugal_google_cuts_perks_136011.htm

Google is going on a diet when it comes to spending on a smorgasbord of food perks for employees living high on the hog in its New York office.

The online search giant issued a memo to its Big Apple workforce earlier this week noting slimmed-down cafeteria hours and food selection as part of an effort "to find areas where efficiency can be improved."

The move, first reported by the tech blog ValleyWag, comes as Google has seen its stock sink more than 48 percent, or $333.48 per share this year.

The advertising business is expected to be hit hard by the ongoing credit crunch and Google CEO Eric Schmidt said earlier this month that the company would be operating more carefully as ad budgets come under pressure.

The belt tightening also takes some of the shine off the company's reputation for perks that have been the envy of media and tech employees across the city.

Gone are exotic treats like afternoon tea on Tuesdays, which has been suspended indefinitely. However, the company said there still may be "occasional surprise 'snack attacks' in the future" - similar to what employees get in Google's Mountain View, Calif. offices.

The company also is creating new rules for feeding guests and discouraging employees from taking meals to go.

"Please note that dinner is provided for those working late in the office and is not intended to be taken home," the memo said.

Meanwhile, the variety of snacks New York staffers can munch on in office "micro-kitchens" - areas designed to make it easy for workers to grab food while working long and/or odd hours - is getting slashed. Employees will soon be getting a questionnaire asking them to vote on their favorite snacks.

Additionally, Google is shaving a half-hour off the dining hours for breakfast, which has been scaled back from 90 minutes to an hour, as well as lunch and dinner which have been trimmed from 2 hours to 90 minutes.

Google shares closed down 2.9 percent yesterday at $358.

kehers,

Thanks for your link. I have bookmarked it. Hopefully you don't delete it anytime soon