TheCongo2:


Com'on bro.
How do you know he is making things up.
I am afraid you are the one making assumption.

I'm making an assumption -- a near assertion -- a suspicion as confirmed by many similar cases here on Nairaland, that people claim to have friends who did this and that, when in most cases, these are people they barely know-- stories they barely have verifiable details of -- just merely what they heard from A or B. For example, I know a girl who graduated from a college here in the US, then, moved briefly to Nigeria, and then, to Ireland where she currently resides. However, I wouldn't claim that she is my friend, or that I have verifiable details of the circumstances that necessitated such moves. Many, on here, in my situation, would say, I have a friend who moved from the US to Ireland for so and so reasons. This is often misleading.

Indigbo:


It’s better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you’re stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. Some people was born troublemaker and might as well earn a living at it. This thread is titled "Before you come to Ireland", not "display your immaturity"

If you have very many friends with distinctive characteristics, then, I'm amazed that you do and I do not, and would want you to add to my list: will you be my friend?

Indigbo:


It’s better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you’re stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. Some people was born troublemaker and might as well earn a living at it. This thread is titled "Before you come to Ireland", not "display your immaturity"

You have friends or you just heard some unverifiable information about some people that did this and that. We need to stop making up stuffs on forums.

dotcomnamename:


Exactly, for instance, read oluayebenz encounter in Canada and where he is today, then read this

Can you see now? .. For instance I have friends that moved from Canada and Sweden to Ireland, I have friends that moved from Ireland to Canada and New Zealand. Can we now see that fingers are not equal? What work for Mr A might not work for Mr B, coupled with the fact that it's about choice, determination and grace of God. That's why I said what really matters is that you do what you think is right for yourself, what you believe in. Just pick a goal, a goal you truly want to achieve. As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live.

Wow, you must be a man of many friends. You keep having friends that did this and that.

oloriLFC:
Youths of this country ehn! We always like to promote stupidity. This will soon pass and another nonsense will trend while the old men in power will be exchanging bags of money and laughing at us.

I just tire for Nigerian youth o

agu12000:
Well,This is my first time posting on naija land and is been overwhelming reading people stories and experiences about moving back....I understand that is a very challenging decision for someone that have lived abroad for a while but i want to tell you guys my story maybe that will help convey my point on this

So, did you guys finally move back?

Rayz94:
I have been following this trend and I appreciate everyone's feedback. However, I am currently an international student in Canada. I will be done with my studies next year. I am considering forgoing the ambition of getting the Canadian permanent residency and move permanently back to Nigeria to reunite with family and friends. Also thinking of starting a business while I move back tho.

Hey, how has this worked out for you now?

travelland:
1 doctor out of more than 100,000, dies on duty and without post mortem being carried out to explain the cause of death, Nigerian union of doctors want to use this as a reason for increase in wages? Carry go, after all our presido is not learned so you can easily deceive and have your way, RIP

Don't mind them. Who are they fooling?

NairaMaster1:


So, you think four surgery ain't stressful? Follow me to the theatre, the sight of cuts, organs and blood are enough for you to collapse.

Wow! Nice definition of stress!

Segeshow:
I sympathize with the deceased man's family. The general disregard and callousness exhibited by the average commentator on this site makes me stand firm in my decision not to ever go over and beyond for any patient that is not a relation. See people comparing his work to Okada man that rides bike from 5am to 11pm or engineer that treks under sun. Surgery, you can't take breaks in the middle because longer time operating results in poor outcomes. I advise any surgeon to do the best you can in given circumstances and never try to be a hero and overstretch yourself on account of these ingrates. Once me don tire, na sei gobe be that.

Who you epp before?

NaMe4:


Calm down. It's a known fact that the doctor-patient ratio in our region is the worst in the world.

In organised climes, the welfare of those providing care to individuals, families, etc is of utmost importance.
Healthcare workers are allowed intermittent breaks and leaves during which they take vacations in different parts of the world. A few use such periods for voluntary work.
How many doctors in Nigeria can afford a vacation even in neighbouring African Countries?

Such packages help in the overall physical, mental and social health of the individual.

I know a number of workers from developing Countries may forfeit such breaks and work extra hours or calls in order to earn more income. They can easily do this because such work is child's play compared to what they go through in their home Countries.

A government health institution would require 200 doctors, but you'll find only 50 doctors being employed and overworked.
You can't find such in any sane society!

A lot of doctors, especially residents, work 80 or more hours per day in the US. Some even work when they are sick. The fact that you chose to ignore your health and still operate a private hospital while working in a govt hospital is your choice. Someone just died here, not even an autopsy has been done, yet you have jumped to conclusion on the cause of death because it favors you (I'm not talking about you personally here; I'm talking about the doctors who share your sentiment). If this happened to another civil servant, would you guys be quick to jump to this conclusion? Aren't health workers in Nigeria allowed intermittent breaks and leaves? With 200K a month, can't you take vacations in a nice place in Nigeria? Must it be abroad? What am I even saying- don't Nigerian doctors take vacations abroad? Anyway, I understand; anything to justify a higher paycheck.

thorpido:
There's more to his death than just performing four surgeries.
Perhaps he had a heart condition.

God bless you!

Nbote:
And somebody will ask why Nigerian Doctors and medical personnel are running away from d country

If you knew how much foreign doctors worked, you wouldn't have stated this. You think abroad is for play abi?

sammyuche:
Next time when you see doctors going on strike and some other professions in the medical field come online to rubbish their image or demand same pay.. Let stories like this come to mind. The medical profession is the most stressful and abused profession in Nigeria. Nigeria is a dream killer for medical doctors

Mtcheew, I knew someone would spit this rubbish. Always finding a way to relate it to pay. When people in other professions slump and die, you try to remind people to always check their health, but when it is doctors, you relate it to pay. Smh. So, doctors are the only ones who slump and die in Nigeria abi? Or the medical profession is more stressful than the military, yet doctors are paid more than soldiers. You are seriously sick, you better check your health before you also slump and die.

Beautyaddy:


lol!...Kind of yes/no at the same time.

Yes, depending on the specialties like surgeons and the likes.

No, because now some States are now allowing Nurse Practitioners to take up most of those specialties like family medicine, Psychiatrics, internal medicine and pediatrics. So the need for doctors in these fields are not necessary.

If the answer is yes and no, then, even if there was indeed a shortage, it is not acute as that my brother put it. Something acute is always crystal clear- very obvious- such that there will be no doubts or arguments at all.

Babyvet:


I agree, one has to really research this topic before making such statements. When there was an actual nursing shortage , the government actually made programs to bring nurses from other countries to the U.s. Now the program has been closed but some people keep shouting that there is a nursing shortage but the program has not been reopened. The truth of the matter a lot of people , wants to live in more metropolitan areas compared to rural , which is why there is a shortage of workers in that area.

Exactly my point. In the books we hear that there is an acute shortage, but I don't see this in real life. The shortage does not appear really different from the shortage in other professions like computer science. As a matter of fact, Nursing is the only profession (that I know of at the moment) that is ineligible for an H1B, which contradicts the shortage claim. In a country like Nigeria, you hear that a hospital has only one doctor to hundreds of patients, so patients have to queue for several hours before they can see a doctor. That's a proof of shortage in real life without look at the books. In the US, this is not the case. People still have access to their specialists without waiting too long. We don't hear these kinds of complaints in the US. Even the USMLE process for foreign doctors is getting tougher. In the past, there were three USMLE centers in Nigeria, now there is none. Yet, in the papers, there is the official "noise" that there is an acute shortage. That's why sometimes it's important to experience things for oneself than just reading online and jumping to conclusions.

Mancala:


Good points. But remember, the system also provides options to relieve doctors of debt. For example, a fresh out of training doc has the opportunity to get loan forgiveness if they practice for some years in a rural area. In addition, because there is an acute shortage, many doctors get a signing bonus that will substantially eliminate a large portion of their debt if they choose to pay it off. However, you need to understand the American financial system. Debt in itself is not a bad thing in America. These loans are at very low interest rates and so it makes financial sense to pay them off over a long period of time while investing your income in higher yielding opportunities. Do not be fooled by Drs complainijg about debt. They have made a choice not to pay it off, and a good financial choice too!

Debt is not a bad thing, so is it a good thing? I would say avoid it if you can. If it weren't that serious, there wouldn't be complaints about it by those who are drown in it.

Mancala:


Good points. But remember, the system also provides options to relieve doctors of debt. For example, a fresh out of training doc has the opportunity to get loan forgiveness if they practice for some years in a rural area. In addition, because there is an acute shortage, many doctors get a signing bonus that will substantially eliminate a large portion of their debt if they choose to pay it off. However, you need to understand the American financial system. Debt in itself is not a bad thing in America. These loans are at very low interest rates and so it makes financial sense to pay them off over a long period of time while investing your income in higher yielding opportunities. Do not be fooled by Drs complainijg about debt. They have made a choice not to pay it off, and a good financial choice too!

Leaving the others that you talked about. Let me digress a little on a lighter note. Is there really an acute shortage of doctors in the US or this is just what they want us to believe? Let's leave out what's in the books and focus on the reality: is there currently an acute shortage of doctors? If there was an acute shortage, why wasn't there a Schedule A reservation by Congress like there was for physical therapists and nurses? Too many med schools keep turning down applicants who end up in the Caribbean countries. Several physicians are still struggling to match sef

Mancala:


In defense of the American system, I must mention that these things you mention are a matter of choice. Going to Harvard is a choice you make. Point being that you can also get an equivalent education at less than 20% the cost of Harvard at other schools. The system caters to everyone. The beautiful thing about America is that everyone finds their level and can get ahead. If you want to drive a car, you can choose between a $200 beater and a $100k Mercedes. Both will basically get you from A to B, one choice more comfortably. Both will arrive at the same destination!

I don't think there was ever an argument about this.

sweetmelanin:



Why do you categorize people into rich or poor?

Because originally, what made me dabble into this conversation is that I was trying to prove that if you are rich, you are better off living in Nigeria than in the US.

sweetmelanin:
Majority of us are somewhere in the middle.

Back to what I said earlier, just above.

sweetmelanin:
You cannot compare a rich man in Nigeria to a middle class man abroad

What do you mean? This is very subjective? How is it incomparable? What is the example of your average rich man in Nigeria- are you talking about the likes of Dangote or Omotola? And who is your example of an average middle class in the US? Without clarifying all these, you can't just make a subjective statement like this and claim it's a fact?

sweetmelanin:
.. think objectivly please.

I think I should be the one telling you this.

sweetmelanin:
Compare a doctor in Nigeria to one abroad. A teacher in Nigeria to one abroad etc.. that way, your argument will be more concise and clear.

Really? Is that your definition of an objective claim? Does it take the same process to become a doctor or teacher in the US as it is in Nigeria? Same cost of education, same qualification, same time, same cost of living? How do you just make such a ridiculous comparison and call it "concise and clear"?

sweetmelanin:
Finally, what are you doing in America? When was the last time you experienced home on a first hand basis?

Here we go again. It always ends in personal confrontations.

Beautyaddy:


In that highlighted paragraph you have imbedded a number of very false statements in there.


First of all, your point about the surgeon earning about $500,000 a year and needing to pay very high in taxes is true but do you know there are some loop-holes in the taxes that he can benefit from like earning properties, keeping receipts of what you buy and pay for...the list goes on...which eventually he wont need to pay all that high taxes.

Student loans, there are some legal legal loop-holes that can be used to pay the bare minimum without needing to pay any interest to pay it off.

Now the part where the teacher attended community college and is now a teacher is false. Most teachers are master's degree holders earning the average of $60,000 a year and above depending on the State.[/quote]

I'm truly sorry that I did not start my statement with "As a hypothetical example," as my English teacher warned me years ago. I often think that the tone makes it evident, but with your response, it clearly doesn't. If you study the tone of my words deeper, you'll realize that what it means is that, "For example, a doctor who earns..." That does not mean that I'm using a real-life example of a doctor who earns that amount when there are a lot of doctors who do not earn that. Yes, there are loopholes, but it depends on how you want to exploit those loopholes, in addition to your access to the opportunities to exploit them. It's not all as straightforward as you have presented them, meaning that not everyone can. There are a lot more issues to it, but let's not derail that line at this time. These things are very subjective and do not work for everyone same way.

My statement on a teacher with an associate's degree is also a hypothetical example including the amount, however, I acknowledge that I never knew that you would have to earn a master's to teach at an elementary. I take that back, and thanks for letting me know.
NB: I just asked someone now and she said the minimum is a BA. Well, you said "most"

Beautyaddy:

Even the people that are earning $40,000 a year or below, yes their kids might be able to get more money from FAFSA, but the parents will still have to pay some money out of pocket maybe not a lot. And mind you most of the schools that FAFSA will pay bulk of the tuition payment is with public universities schools and not private universities.

This is not accurate; it depends on the school and the type of financial aid they get. A lot of community college students receive refunds; that is, their entire cost is covered, and they still get a check in refund. Again it depends on the school; that is, their tuition cost, and types of financial aid. Meanwhile, I wasnt only talking about FAFSA, I'm talking about need-based scholarships.

Beautyaddy:
Most of the students that end up paying little to none tuitions payments with schools, such as Harvard and the likes get most of the funding through academic scholarships and not just through FAFSA.

This is entirely wrong; but I spare you because of your tactical use of "most" putting you on the safe side. Top private institutions have need-based scholarships. This has nothing to do with academic/merit scholarships. At these schools, every single student who gets admitted is academically smart, and many of them already have top GPAs. Therefore, if they would use academic scholarships, every single student will qualify. What these schools, such as Harvard, MIT, etc. do is that, they admit you irrespective of how much you have (need-blind). Once admitted, they will meet 100% of your declared financial need. So, how do you declare financial need? What your family earns. If your family earns above a certain amount, you will not qualify. However, if your family earns above a certain amount, 100% of your financial need will be met. This has nothing to do with academic scholarships; it is a need-based scholarship. So yea, while someone whose parents earn $40,000 will not have to pay ANYTHING in tuition, someone who earns above a certain amount stipulated by the school may have to pay the full tuition.

INDUSTRIALFAN:
he had polio as a baby which resulted in the loss of the use of his legs. He's been without the use of his legs all his life. I remember as kids we used to play chase games and we'll let him win cos it made him feel good.

Ok, Polio is a much better condition than the one in this article. It's a spinal injury so they are different.

Babyvet:


I don’t where your base is but in America things can be tough. I work in the health care field. Doctors can suffer here too. Theyre under a lot of pressure . Going to medical school is very long , tough and very very expensive. A doctor here may still be in finiciancisl trouble , you may not know it because of the accessibility to borrow money from a finiancial institution. The doctor , now has to work insane amount of hours to pay off their debt. All those big houses and big cars come at price . I have lived in two countries before moving the U.S and I can say that people in the U.S tend to spend more time at work , only to live pay check to paycheck . I think one can move back to Nigeria successfully if they set realistic goals and excute it properly. I have seen too many people who left good paying jobs and decent lives back home only to come here work low wage jobs and increase their stress levels.

People only think about what you earn; they don't think about what you spend. The doctor in Nigeria spent only six years to get that certificate. if he went to a federal university, it was almost free for him. For the American doctor, he spent a minimum of 8 years to become a physician, including expensive four-year undergrad degree and a more expensive four years of med school. Then, the expensive USMLE steps exams, and then at least 80 hours of work per week in the hospital during residency. By the time he is done, his age is already up, and then the loans and others. No one talks about the challenges both financial and mental, they just see the amount he earns.

sweetmelanin:


Chiamanda lives in America my dear
I appreciate the few names you have dropped here but please speak from your own experience and those around you. are you rich? What opportunities has Nigeria offered you. I am open to learn.

Okay, so when I have conversations such as these online, I don't like people taking them personal and this is why I don't like talking about myself or using my personal experiences. If it gets heated, talking about yourself will become sentimental and personality attacks will start coming up. To keep it objective, it is better to keep the conversations general rather than making it personal.

Now, let's dissect Chimamanda. She is a fiction writer. It is extremely hard to become rich as a fiction writer in Nigeria. Nigeria does not have a large market for that. Therefore, the best place for Chimamanda as a writer is America. If she stayed in Nigeria, she would definitely be poor. In addition, Chimamanda is married to a medical doctor with specialization in Obstetrics and Gynecology in Maryland. Do you expect her to move with her husband who did residency in the US to start practicing in Nigeria, or you want her to move to Nigeria alone? From whatever angle you look at it, Chimamanda is better suited to remain in America.

Now, having said that, the fact that she is in America does not mean that everything is all glamour as it appears publicly. Chimamanda is a celebrity, and several celebrities suffer in silence whilst pretending that all is well. Have you read her article on how she suffered depression and would wake up to cry every morning?

There are several other names I could mention, but I don't want to join the bandwagon of "I have a friend.." which is why I mentioned popular names that everyone knows.

As I stated earlier, if you are poor, America is the best place for you, but if you are rich, it may be a disadvantage. And here is the reason: America as a country works extremely hard to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor, even though this is far from perfect yet. Therefore, if you are rich, America takes away your money, but if you are poor, America gives you money. Let's look at a few examples:

If you make under a certain amount of money in a year, you will qualify for FAFSA and some other need-based scholarships. If you earn above, you don't. Some schools, especially top schools like Harvard, MIT, will give you full tuition scholarships if you earn around less that $60K a year, but if you earn above, you have to pay. So, if you are rich, you keep spending money, but if you are poor, they give you money. This helps to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor.

So, take a look at a medical doctor, for example. He is a surgeon and earns $500,000 per year. He is rich, right? Do you know how much he pays in taxes from that amount? Do you know how much he owes in student loans? Do you know that because he earns that much, his children do not qualify for any need-based financial aid, so if his children gain admission to Harvard, he has to pay over $70K per year on their tuition. Now, compare him with an elementary school teacher in America. She earns only $40K per year. She is poor, right? Do you know that she has no student loans because she only has an associate's degree from a community college? Do you know that her taxes are very low compared to the doctor? Do you know that all of her kids will get FAFSA and other need-based financial aids if they go to college? Do you know that if any of her kids gets admitted to Harvard, she will not have to pay anything in tuition? Do you see the discrepancy between how the government treats the rich and the poor in other to bridge the gap?

Now, let's go to Nigeria. University of Ibadan is Nigeria's Harvard. If you earn 6 million naira a year in Nigeria and someone else earns 50,000 a year, do you know that you both will still pay the SAME amount if your kids go to UI or any other school in Nigeria? Earning less does not mean you pay less. Do you see why the gap between the rich and the poor keeps getting wider in Nigeria? Nobody cares that you are poor; you pay the same as the rich. So, tell me, which place benefits the rich more? Which place benefits the poor more?

Now, note that I only used the school analogy; I have not even talked about other aspects such as public housing, etc.

Babyvet:


I think at the end of the day, people should stay where it’s works for them. Abroad is not going to work for everybody and vice versa.

Exactly.

INDUSTRIALFAN:
my cousin is also disabled and in a wheelchair. Got married last year to a really pretty lady. He actually doesn't have much but the wife loves him regardless. Went to visit when I was in Abuja for a seminar and where they live is a pretty small place( just a room, a parlour and a kitchen with a bathroom and a toilet) but despite that, if you see the way they re, you'll envy the love playing between them. They just had a daughter too. Mumcie was visiting me of how they were trying to make sure the girl was sure she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him and she said if it wasn't my cousin, she doesn't want to get married to anyone else. You'd think it's new love but they've been dating since their university days. Not all Nigerian women re alike. Atleast my cousin is comfortable and has a car to move around with(a Camry) and his wife will happily wheel him to the drivers door, when he hops in the driver's seat, she wheels the chair to the trunk, pops it in and gladly hops in the passenger seat. (Yes he drives too)

What is your cousin's diagnosis? Why is he in a wheelchair?

Babyvet:


Interesting posts from that quora thread , it seems like a lot of people agreed that person coming from a poor developed nation would see the U.S as great . For those who lived in other developed the us was okay or overrated. I agree with their sentiments.

That is what I'm trying to explain to her about being rich, but I hope she reads the thread anyway.

sweetmelanin:



Yes, you pay little to no taxes but money finishes in your hand through endless bribing of police officers, toll gate fees, fuel for generator, transport, school fees, hospital fees, borrow borrow family and friends etc..

Did I read you right? Bribery and Corruption is a benefit?

Let me just pick out the emboldened; if that is what you do, then, let it be you, don't generalize. I lived in Nigeria for more than two decades and I never for once bribed a police officer. The reason many people bribe these guys is either because they don't know their rights, or they have broken the law somehow and just want an easy way out. If what you do is right in standing with the law and you know your rights, why will you bribe a police officer?

And regarding the other fees you are talking about; do you know how expensive it is to live in the US, especially if you don't have a good job or are uneducated? Do you know how much people incur in student loan debts alone, especially those who go to graduate professional schools? How many people incur debts for going to college in Nigeria?

See, both sides have their good and bad. You are better off living abroad if you suffer in Nigeria, but if you are rich...

sweetmelanin:


Mediocrity can never end in Nigeria.
Please my dear, how many people fall into the category of "the rich"?
What you fail to understand is that what people see as luxury in this country is a NORMAL way of life abroad.

Those who settle and acquire their passports have endless opportunities to travel to many parts of the world without requiring visa... just see how you are screaming holiday like its luxury. What a pity.

See, I live in the US so I know what I'm saying; I don't have to argue with you. If it was the way you said it, the rich would choose to live abroad instead. If you have some time, get a copy of AMERICANAH by Chimamanda Adichie, and find out why Obinze chose to go back to Nigeria with his wealth, and why Ifemelu later went back after acquiring US citizenship. If you could afford to buy a range rover and pay for it in cash at once in Nigeria, isn't that wealth? How many Americans can afford that? Is that what you will call "normal" in America. How about the paying of taxes? Do you know how that affects the rich? Why are you intrigued by the visa-free opportunity? First, if you are rich, no one will deny you a visa, so you can still visit the same countries that the visa-free citizen visits, so what exactly is the advantage of the visa-free chance you get? How many countries do you necessarily have to visit if you are rich, is everyone interested in travelling like that? Most times, the rich is going to these countries for one conference or the other which is by invitation, so who will deny them a visa?

Look, I want us to be very objective in our conversation here. There are a lot of things I could say, but I'm at work now. If you have some time, this discussion was already on Quora, it has over 100 answers: Is getting an American citizenship the best thing? Take time and read through, and it will explain a lot of things I wanted to tell you: https://www.quora.com/Is-having-a-child-born-into-U-S-citizenship-the-best-thing-that-could-happen-to-a-prospective-parent-from-another-nation

Don't get me wrong, getting an American citizenship is great; but this is only for the poor and middle-class. If you are rich, you don't need it. If you are Nigerian and RICH, you will rather live in Nigeria than abroad. Have you ever wondered why people like Dora Akunyili renounced their green cards? Or why Wole Soyinka would not apply for a citizenship, and not live in the US? Or why Obasanjo still keeps living in his Ogun State farm even after leaving politics, though he could still be embezzling money for America if he wanted? Or why Davido or Tiwa Savage would rather live in Nigeria even with their US citizenships- do you even think these guys will break through in music if they remained in the US?

sweetmelanin:


I've read most of your posts on this thread. Dude, sorry to say you got your heads in the cloud. Maybe because you've spent so long abroad and you are homesick.

Nigeria is not what you think. I repeat.. NIGERIA IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK! It is a land of hardship, anger and frustration. Don't be decieved by the suffer and smile lifestyle.

Yes there is a better sense of community here but trust me, it's because there's no other option. When there's no light, wont you go out and gist with neighbours? who will sit inside in darkness? We need each other to survive in this decrepit land.. but believe me, the minute Nigeria develops like the western world, all these social whatever will stop.

Regarding opportunities, they are only there for the rich and connected. Someone like you may struggle since you've been abroad for so long. There are many returnees like you regretting their decision to return.

The best option is to live abroad and come home regularly for holidays. A word is enough!

What you don't understand is that Nigeria is the best place to live in for the rich. For the poor, thew West is OK, but for the rich, it is naija. Have you wondered why those rich people only travel abroad for holidays but never live there permanently? And whenever they go for holidays and go for shopping, they can afford what those living there cannot. There is something about being rich in a developing country; you become a king, a god. Your money cannot make you that in America.

wolesmile:
continue dreaming that this is love

simple question you can't answer. You think everyone is like you.