Bidam:
BTW, have you considered who is greater between Melchi and Ab? Who gave the wine and bread? Who blesses? Who is King of righteousness and peace? Who is a priest forever?

Christ is priest forever. Melchi na counterfeit.

Bidam:
I hold onto the belief that Jesus is the incarnate Word of God and by expression God.With God all things are possible. So far you guys have been unable to tell us who Melchizedek is, you've just been dancing around in circles.

you've been the one telling us the OT is a shadow, so why the belief that Melchi is the real deal? Secondly, I don't understand how and why you want us to reveal Melchi's identity. I can only tell you he is not Christ. For other info, you need to see baba God.

Bidam: You should know my stand by now that i am not in support of reincarnation. I only support what the bible says. I hold onto the belief that Jesus is the incarnate Word of God and by expression God.With God all things are possible. So far you guys have been unable to tell us who Melchizedek is, you've just been dancing around in circles.

you don't support reincarnation and you've been praising doubleDx, you see ya self na? Supporting posts you don't understand you don't even know if the guy is an apostle of ABD-RU-SHIN

birdman:
which verse? you didnt quote any. Happy new year to all btw

meaning you did not read my post. Go back one page to see references I gave to support my post/claim.

happy new year to you my brother.

birdman:
Note I am not getting bogged down in man, or whatever you want to define as man.

Glad to read you are not arguing this bit.

birdman:
The Word was made flesh, ie Jesus. Haven't angels appeared as men before? And why wouldnt the Word be able to take on this form on the earth too. Or do you have specific scripture stating that this cannot be the case?

birdman:
Becasue all the verses you guys have been quoting have not shown me why God could not do this.

The verse quoted was not meant to show that angels cannot appear as men. with God everything is possible. The verse quoted was to show that Melchizedek cannot be Jesus.

Bidam:
I actually don't know anything concerning King Melchi apart from what Apostle Paul shared in Hebrews, and that is why i am silent where scripture is silent. If you know His genealogy please tell us.

..Good. it best you stay silent especially when Paul himself did not consider Melchi & Christ one and same.

doubleDx:
Seeing as many of you do not accept or believe in reincarnation, it's going to be difficult for us to agree on this one. Lemme just stop here!

a quick search for definition of reincarnation.....

Bing Dictionary
re·in·car·na·tion[ r in kaar náysh'n ]
rebirth of soul: in some systems of belief, the cyclic return of a soul to live another life in a new body
body in which somebody is reborn: in some systems of belief, a person or animal in whose body somebody's soul is born again after he, she, or it has died
appearance in new guise: a reappearance of something in a new form

....so you are saying Jesus Melchizedek (body) died and his soul came back in a new body? and Bidam & co been telling us Melchi lives forever. Bidam come and explain ya self you've been supporting doubleDx posts.

Bidam:
I don't get his fixation on Man,Angels are also called Men in the OT. Let's see how he could wriggle out of this one..

King James Bible Genesis 18:2
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Genesis 19:1
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

....you don't know anything. Abraham and Lot recognized/knew the 'men' were not really 'men'. what was Abbie's reaction on sighting the men?........"he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground".....and how did Lot react? same manner...."he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground"

...and what was Abbie's reaction the time he met Melchizedek?........Abram gave him a tenth of everything (a.k.a.10% of war booty)

You don't know anything

MEILYN:
To you Melchizedec is not Christ fine. But to me he is Christ and i strongly believe he is without any doubt.......

.....the bible shows melchizedek as resembling Jesus but you don't read bible saying Melchizedek is Christ. So is your belief based on what you read or what you think? or maybe it's based on some revelation; God told you in a dream.

Even the Hebrews 7 chapter we all love to quote suggests Melchizedek is not Christ.....

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.

To say Melchizedek is Christ is to say Christ been priest even before Abraham. what type of priesthood was that? if Christ was already a priest before Abraham why was there still need for the levitical priesthood? and the bible indicates Christ only became our mediator when he offered himself (as sacrifice) once for all. Zechariah spoke of a priest to come.....but Melchi was already king-priest in Abraham's time.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (NIV)
12 Tell him this is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord. 13 It is he who will build the temple of the Lord, and he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And he will be a priest on his throne. And there will be harmony between the two.

birdman:
Sure he is a man. But a man without end or beginning. Obviously not a man like you or I. So, what would be your point of stressing the manhood here?

a man without a beginning? How is that possible? even Jesus as man had a beginning.

doubleDx:

Having no Father, Mother, beginning or ending of days clearly shows that he wasn't of this earth....which was why he was said to be "made like unto a Son of God"!

where is he from? planet Mars? if you say he is an angel, then you are saying there are currently in existence two high priests (Christ & Melchizedek). Bible says there is only one high priest and his name is Jesus. Melchizedek can only be priest forever if he is Christ, but scripture did not at any time say Melchizedek was Jesus.

Bidam:
Jesus is the Melchizedek of OLD and He did receive tithes.

Bidam Bidam..na wa o! are you saying Jesus and Melchi are one and same so Jesus been around before? and for the purpose of collecting tithe?

Bidam:
Tithing is a form of giving......

..and i was thinking tithing is a form of payment.

Bidam: T
As for the other ones they are rather dishonest, they still attack Christians who tithe by Faith, they say there is nothing like that.

am yet to meet the tither that gives 10% by faith.

faith in what BTW? that you go 'hammer' after giving ya pastor 10% of ya loot?

anukulapo:
Bidam, You have been webbed into the mosaic law argument as regards the discussions obviously.
If your tithing position is not in the mosaic "law",I advice you stop responding to comments about mosaic tithe (agric produce, farm produce, eat your tithe..., give the levites...sell them and bring the money to jerusalem...and the related points).

This will be difficult as Bidam is tithing according to Moses. Bidam is empty without the mosaic law.

Bidam:
And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it; or if the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD your God has blessed you:
25 Then shall you turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go to the place which the LORD your God shall choose:
The purpose and principle behind the tithes is the bolded which again you deliberately omitted.

Lol!

You just like to embarass ya self sha.

Bidam:..

Bidam:
here is a scripture to ponder on.

"Yea, The Lord will answer and say unto His people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for The Lord will do great things." (Joel 2:19-21 KJV)

So because corn, wine and oil is found here should we use your definition and say they are agric produce shey? Do you see your folly in giving scriptures, your own private interpretations? someone might see this scripture and also tell you they do fall from the sky. Is it not God that sends them according to that passage?

Zikkyy...

Zikkyy:

Bidam, God saying he will send corn, and wine, and oil does not change anything. corn wine and oil still obtained from agricultural activities, natural products from plants.

Whether the thing fall from heaven or came out of the ground does not change anything.

Bidam....

Bidam:
But it changes everything oooo.. This is your definition of agric.

"Merriam-webster: the science, art, or practice of cultivating the soil, producing crops, and raising livestock and in varying degrees the preparation and marketing of the resulting products."

So are you telling us here that there is SOIL in the sky

This agric produce that was suppose to grow in soil actually changes everything,

Bidam, i still don't understand what you looking for in the sky. if God told his people he will "send corn, and wine, and oil".. and you assume the corn, wine and oil will fall from the sky abi? you should have taken some time to read verses 22-26 of the (Joel) bible reference you quoted...

"Do not be afraid, you wild animals, for the pastures in the wilderness are becoming green. The trees are bearing their fruit; the fig tree and the vine yield their riches. Be glad, people of Zion, rejoice in the Lord your God, for he has given you the autumn rains because he is faithful. He sends you abundant showers, both autumn and spring rains, as before. The threshing floors will be filled with grain; the vats will overflow with new wine and oil. “I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten— the great locust and the young locust, the other locusts and the locust swarm[b]— my great army that I sent among you. You will have plenty to eat, until you are full, and you will praise the name of the Lord your God, who has worked wonders for you"

When God says he was going to send corn, and wine, and oil, he was going to send rain and also send the locust packing. Mr. Bidam corn, wine and oil and products of agric activities.

You can continue to embarass ya self sha. no wahala

Bidam: Maybe you did not get the import of those things i posted. Let me repeat them again for emphasis.
Notice. God says, “For all the earth is Mine” (Ex. 19:5) and “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord’s your God, the earth also, with all that therein is” (Deut. 10:14) and also “whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine” (Job 41:11). King David wrote, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein” (Psa. 24:1). I Corinthians 10:26 repeats his words.

God also says, “For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills...If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof” (Psa. 50:10, 12). Finally, the prophet Haggai wrote, “The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, says the Lord” (Hag. 2:8 ).

We are just custodians of the things on earth, so if He demands a tenth of the land,it is His.

You see ya self? see what ya bible reference says....."If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof”

Anyways God did not ask for a tithe of heaven, he did not ask for a tithe of every beast of the forest, he did not ask for a tithe of the cattle upon a thousand hills and he did not ask for a tithe of God and silver.

This was God's request......"A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord" you see that? whether grain from the soil or fruit from the tree. he did not say a tithe of crude oil........."Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord."....God says tithe of herd & flock, the tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod. "shepherd" means he is not expecting you to tithe bushmeat, so if you be hunter forget about tithing.

If you have difficulty understanding the above, you can continue to embarrass ya self

Bidam: This are your lies and ideologies,scripture in no way says tithes are converted into traveling money and food.. let's stick to what the bible says abeg..Here it is for your perusal.


DEUTERONOMY 14:22-25
22 You shall truly tithe all the increase of your seed, that the field brings forth year by year.
23 And you will eat before the LORD your God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of your corn, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks; that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it; or if the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD your God has blessed you:
25 Then shall you turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go to the place which the LORD your God shall choose:

The tithes were to be brought to the place where God chose "to put his name there" (Deuteronomy 12:5), "to cause his name to dwell there;" (Deuteronomy 12:11), "to place his name there," (Deuteronomy 14:23). In those days this specifically referred to the Temple in Jerusalem (1 Kings 9:3; 2 Kings 21:4; 21:7; 2 Chronicles 33:7).

verse 22 says tithe the increase of ya seed that the field bring forth. Did you read that? God did not say tithe the increase of ya gold & silver. Verse 23 says the tithe of ya corn, wine & oil, again no gold and silver. Verse 24 & 25 says if the way is too far & ya tithe is too heavy for you to carry, turn ya tithe to money so ya load will be light. Bidam if ya money is too heavy for you, do you turn money into money?

Bidam:
here is a scripture to ponder on.

"Yea, The Lord will answer and say unto His people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for The Lord will do great things." (Joel 2:19-21 KJV)

So because corn, wine and oil is found here should we use your definition and say they are agric produce shey?

Bidam, God saying he will send corn, and wine, and oil does not change anything. corn wine and oil still obtained from agricultural activities, natural products from plants.

Bidam:
Is it not God that sends them according to that passage? Even manna( coriander seeds) fell from heaven for the children of Israel, should you now foolishly label agric produce? You see ya lyf. Another scripture to consider, to show you the futlity of your folly is "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." (Amos 9:9 KJV) so you can see that the corn here is not talking about agric produce.

Whether the thing fall from heaven or came out of the ground does not change anything. The fact that God sent quails does not change the fact that quails are birds. why is it so difficult for you to understand?

Bidam:
Notice. God says, “For all the earth is Mine” (Ex. 19:5) and “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord’s your God, the earth also, with all that therein is” (Deut. 10:14) and also “whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine” (Job 41:11). King David wrote, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein” (Psa. 24:1). I Corinthians 10:26 repeats his words.

God also says, “For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills...If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof” (Psa. 50:10, 12). Finally, the prophet Haggai wrote, “The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, says the Lord” (Hag. 2:8 ).

Nobody is saying the God is not the onwer of heaven and earth. What we are saying here is that God did not demand for a tithe of heaven and earth

Bidam:
You are trying hard to justify your folly here, you can quote a dictionary to tell us what agric is which in no way is found in scripture but you cannot quote the same dictionary to explain what WHETHER means

wheth·er (hwr, w-)
conj.
1. Used in indirect questions to introduce one alternative: We should find out whether the museum is open. See Usage Notes at doubt, if.
2. Used to introduce alternative possibilities: Whether she wins or whether she loses, this is her last tournament.
3. Either: He passed the test, whether by skill or luck.

so whether here is a conjunction word used to introduce an alternative possibility. The society at that time was majorly agrarian, not many owned silver,gold, no miners etc. So whether was used to qualify the majority of the populace.That did not stop others that are not farmers from tithing.

Makes no difference. God gave his alternatives; "A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord". everything comes from agricultural practice. He did not even say the fruit of ya labor, he said fruit from the trees. So if you like dig for Gold it will not come under God's definition.

Bidam:
The society at that time was majorly agrarian, not many owned silver,gold, no miners etc. So whether was used to qualify the majority of the populace.That did not stop others that are not farmers from tithing.

Tithing when you are not a farmer amounts to what we call 'over-sabi'. it does not change God's definition of his tithe. Maybe that's the reason armed robbers, prostitute are tithing these days. Based on you peeps understanding, tithing can be anything, sourced from anywhere and pastors are smiling to the bank

Bidam:
The leviticus can't be used by you to define the tithes amidst so many glaring scriptural evidences that it is not agric produce, i have shown you other scripture,so you don't define God's tithe that way, it is just like saying Jesus is God, MAN, Prophet, Apostle,priest, King, so can you define who Jesus is?

This is exactly why most tithers have problem determining what their tithe should be, and this is why armed robbers and prostitute pay tithe; because they think like you.

God is not a God of confusion. every instruction to the Israelite was clearly stated so they understood the requirements of the Law. If any Jew want to know what was expected of them they go Leviticus 27 (for the nature/definition of the tithe), Numbers 18 to know the beneficiary of the first tithe and Deuteronomy to know the beneficiaries of the second tithe. other instances you find in the bible has to do with tithing practices (actions) by men which cannot be interpreted as God's definition of tithe. even if some people decides to interpret the law to suit their needs, their action does not constitute a modification of the written law. My brother you will find the tithe instructions only in Leviticus for definition, Numbers and Deuteronomy for beneficiary and mode of implementation.

Bidam:
it is just like saying Jesus is God, MAN, Prophet, Apostle,priest, King, so can you define who Jesus is?

you are not in a position to define Jesus.

Bidam:
Tithes is not your so called agric produce. It can be oil,wine,corn..etc to describe is not to define wrong analogy.

Bidam, oil wine & corn comes from agricultural practices. I just hope you know you are embarrassing ya self

anukulapo:

Ok. I'll proceed to scriptural reference after a satisfactory straight answer to the question below.

What is your position on tithing?
A) anti christian tithing
B) pro christian tithing
C) ______________________

am indifferent. Its your money.

am only against the teaching (based on mosaic law).

anukulapo:
Yes,if you have a scripture that says "do not pay tithe"

why request that i provide scripture that says "do not pay tithe" when i don't belong to that group that says people should not tithe.

So please do you have scriptures that supports the saying "the priesthood of Jesus receives tithe"?

anukulapo:
What I know for sure is that the priesthood of Jesus receives tithe contrary to the belief because the mosaic law is lifted off the people,

Do you have scripture for this?

Bidam:
No it isn't my concoction..last time i checked the bible the priestly function wasn't abolished in the new covenant, there was a change of priesthood not a change of tithing,

There was no need to change the tithe. It belonged to the levites as an inheritance. The tithe practice went with them (levites), that was why the apostles never bothered to teach tithe.

That is not to say you cannot practice the pastoral version of tithe today. Just note that you are not paying God's tithe, that's all.

Bidam:
Even the levites,Moses,Aaron,etc Paid tithes to Melchizedek a type of Christ in the OT,

so we can also say even Jesus paid tithe to Melchizedek na, abi?

Bidam:
so there is no where that it was remotely mentioned that the tithes was abolished.

Tithe (i.e. the giving of a tenth or 10% in ya language) was never abolished. what been abolish is God's tithe. you can still practice ya personal/pastoral version of tithe, no wahala.

Bidam:
this is a lie and you know it..Everyone including the levites were not exempted from the tithe, at least you saw the widow i quoted in luke giving her ALL to the temple treasury.If a widow( a beneficiary of the tithes) could do that, how much more others.

Kindly show from scriptures where God gave the command to tithe salary.

Bidam:
As for the redeem it means to buy back. It is used of someone buying back his possessions which he had sold for a debt (Leviticus 25:26), or a close relative buying it back for him (Leviticus 25:25).

It is also used of God buying his people back from the slavery of Egypt (Exodus 6:6; Isaiah 51:10; 63:9). An example of this with tithes would be if a person decided not to pay his tithes at the appropriate time, but to pay it at a later date. Whatever tithe he did not pay at the correct time, he should then add an extra one fifth to the tithe when he does pay it.

How does buying back equate to delaying the tithe from one season to another. You don't know tithe by Israelite was seasonal? The bolded is very very much unscriptural.

Bidam:
Like i showed you from scriptures..Gifts can be offerings,tithes..

you did not show scriptures where tithe was seen as gift o! haba! Bidam, why you dey talk say you show me na?

Bidam:
Even a trading pharisee pays tithe to the treasury in the temple. Now watch this:

I fast twice a week and [size=16pt]tithe on all my income.’[/size] msg.Luke 18:12

Weymouth New Testament
I fast twice a week. I pay the tithe on all my gains

International Standard Version
I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.'

Lol! you are relying on 'tales by moonlight' as evidence that tithe can be in cash form na wa for you o Bidam! where is the evidence that story story was a true event?

Just in case you don't know, income is not strictly cash. income comes in various forms, it can be in kind. Your harvest of farm produce can be income back in da days o! we don't know the nature of the income here so we cannot conclude it is cash.

Bidam:
Hear Jesus talking to the pharisees on money matters(tithes and offerings).
Matthew 23:23

The Message (MSG)

23-24 “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get,. So it is a gross error on your part to tell us here that tithes God mentioned is agric produce. It can actually be anything, money inclusive.

Na wa for you o Bidam! you don't know this bible version was specially designed for American and Nigeria pastors?

Definition of Nickel: 1. A U.S. coin worth five cents, made of a nickel and copper alloy (Free dictionary). 2. North American a five-cent coin; five cents (Oxford dictionaries). 3. a U.S. or Canadian coin that is worth five cents (Merriam-webster)

Definition of Dime: A coin of the United States or Canada worth ten cents (free dictionary). 2. a coin of the United States worth 1⁄10 dollar (Merriam-webster). 3. a ten-cent coin (Oxford dictionaries)

Bidam are you saying the pharisees were using American currency back in the days? or are you saying the pharisees were tithing 5/10 cents back in the days? and i thought the tithe was suppose to be a tenth part of harvest (10% in ya language). you see why you should run away from that bible version.

see correct version below jare.....

Matthew 23:23 (KJV)
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

you don see am abi? tithe na chop-chop

Bidam:
Even Jesus validated this fact when he saw people bringing there tithes and offerings to the temple and a widow bringing her ALL(copper coins).It was never your so called agric produce to start with. Tithes and offerings like i have shown from scripture were always brought to the temple and the scripture records them as GIFTS.......

Luke 21:1-4

New International Version (NIV)

21 As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. 3 “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”.

gifts is now tithe abi? i provided the definition of gift last time on request. e be like you no read am...

Zikkyy:

Gift:

Merriam-Webster - something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

Oxford dictionaries - a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present: wedding gifts

Macmillan Dictionary - something that you give to someone as a present
e.g. He bought generous gifts for all his family.
The camera was a retirement gift from colleagues.
She made a £50,000 gift to charity.

You see am say tithe cannot be defined as gift. afterall na 'pay' you dey pay tithe