Dede1:


If I did not know the cradle of the bases of your plank, I should have quit reading at the first epistle you posted as introductory. Believe me, you could have spared us the exigencies of skewed formation of political parties in the amalgamated Nigeria and stress sociopolitical interests of concerned principal players such as British and ethnic nationalists in the protectorate. Nigeria\Biafra civil war, Bakassi and retrogressive nature of Nigeria are foremost examples of the ills brought about by the 1914 amalgamation of the protectorates.

At least, you did me proud.

Katsumoto:

LOL

Judge Coogar, please go and read it all. Don't be lazy.

Andre Uweh:
Dude you clearly won the debate. Forget the favouritism exhibited here. I saw it coming.

Tony Spike: This is an extraordinary debate and I followed it since yesterday when the thread started. It's simply awesome! However, I do have soul-searching comments for Kats, Obinoscopy and all other Nairalanders.
1. Nations are mainly built on principles, core values and cultural (and social) construct of the societies that make up the nation-state. For example, America was founded based on the mutual and collective revolution of the people against the King of England's obscene taxation policy. Today, the core value is mainly centred on equality for all irrespective of who or what you are. This can be seen in the declaration of independence document. Do we have any core value at the onset of the amalgamation of 'Niger-Area'? What were the motives? Did the different ethnic nationalities have similar aspiration(s) back then? Do they still have the same aspirations today?

Let me tell remind us that the name, Nigeria, means different things to different ethnic groups today.

2. Today in Nigeria, some ethnic nationalities are at home with looting government funds, some justify the importation of 'killer' drugs as a sign of commercial adventurism, some see nothing wrong in slashing the throats of people with different religious (and genealogical) affiliation, and, some even go as far as arming rebels (their people) to 'fight' against the government. I could list as many ills in Nigeria which appears as a norm to different ethnic group and taboo to others. Aren't these signs of different core value(s) in the same nation? Isn't this purely an obvious case of amplified cultural mind-set and values at play in our nation?

I need answers to my questions from as many people as possible. Please, let us not feel offended by my frankness, I needed to drive home the point. Thanks all.

Tony Spike: Kats and Obinoscopy, I still await your humble responses to my earlier comment. I think I am now running impatient refreshing my browser since morning .

9jacrip: @Kats: I have a question, a trivial one at that - are you a historian?

Tony Spike: Kats and Obinoscopy, I still await your humble responses to my earlier comment. I think I am now running impatient refreshing my browser since morning .

Jarus:
Don't mind him. He has Johnson's book of history on his head. One day I will ask him to specially lecture my lazy self on the kiriji war

ortopazz:


even If I cudnt reply I felt that too, the debaters where actually impressive with facts, Katsumo, Obi great jobs homies.


But just Like I will tell anyone interested,America today is not together cause of bunkery of weapons, it is not their size rather they have a developed a national spirit which has made them look beyond the bounds of annexation of other groups, or the different groups that make them up, if Nigeria must go forward we must look inwards and understand that 1914 happened and it happened, I mean together we've acheived what I believe we could nt have achieved if we were independent of ourselves, so we must develop that sense of love and nationalism towards a greater Nation than a Hood for dispirited souls wishing lugard never did what he did.

ortopazz:


even If I cudnt reply I felt that too, the debaters where actually impressive with facts, Katsumo, Obi great jobs homies.


But just Like I will tell anyone interested,America today is not together cause of bunkery of weapons, it is not their size rather they have a developed a national spirit which has made them look beyond the bounds of annexation of other groups, or the different groups that make them up, if Nigeria must go forward we must look inwards and understand that 1914 happened and it happened, [b]I mean together we've acheived what I believe we could nt have achieved if we were independent of ourselves, [/b]so we must develop that sense of love and nationalism towards a greater Nation than a Hood for dispirited souls wishing lugard never did what he did.

Dede1:


If I did not know the cradle of the bases of your plank, I should have quit reading at the first epistle you posted as introductory. Believe me, you could have spared us the exigencies of skewed formation of political parties in the amalgamated Nigeria and stress sociopolitical interests of concerned principal players such as British and ethnic nationalists in the protectorate. Nigeria\Biafra civil war, Bakassi and retrogressive nature of Nigeria are foremost examples of the ills brought about by the 1914 amalgamation of the protectorates.

At least, you did me proud.

nitlad: Followed the debate yesteday, and I've gotta say it was awesome, (kudos to the debaters Obinoscopy and Katsumoto. Top blokes they are). And it was an excellently executed exercise too(give the kudos to Jarus for that). A few things could be done better though.
I thought Obinoscopy came out as the more spontaneous debater in light of his arguments and responses to rebuttals and questions while Katsumoto was well loaded for this (dude sure knows his onions).
Obinoscopy's perfomance is all the more surprising given that his was a side that on the face of it (at least that was my thinking before this debate) you would be hard pressed to find valid points. Yet he gave a masterclass from what presumably should be a doomed corner. Your reference to Somalia was particularly striking!
Kats inspite of your eggheadous perfomance (lol if there is anything like that), I'm not sure you succeeded in undeniably tying any of the problems bedevilling this nation to the 1914 Amalgamation throughout the duration of the debate. I stand to be corrected on this, perhaps I missed it.
I personally believe amalgamating the Northern and Southern Protectorates is/was a historical tragedy, but this debate made me realise that the problems in this country didn't necessarily stem from amalgamation.
All in all, it was an insightfully knowledgeable and exhilaratingly brilliant exercise!

Negro_Ntns:

Obi is yet to associate the human factor with his narratives of brotherhood and progress.

In 1914 certain ethnic groups in Nigeria, Yoruba is a good example, were already far evolved above and beyond the stages of development in East or North and the amalgamation was a retardation on the natural abilities and destiny of their sociocultural evolution.

While certain groups may have been helped into enrichment and evolution by the resulting aggregation if lands and peoples, the opposite is true for theYorubas. Amalgamation promised sovereingty and shared pool or joint ownership. Joint ownership of what, I ask? How can you be promised sovereingty over a land whose ownership has not changed hands?

To those who before amalgamation had never tasted sovereingty or had no social ideals and a robust philosophy and creed for moving their people forward, yes those people today have what they otherwise wihout the aid of the 1914 contract would ever have. Those who had it ended up loosing it and their momentum in the resulting madness and chaos of Nigerian nationhood.

Lets separate the corn from the chaff......the bottom line of SNC rests on that dissatisfaction with the loss of self identity for substitution with joint identity.

nitlad: Followed the debate yesteday, and I've gotta say it was awesome, (kudos to the debaters Obinoscopy and Katsumoto. Top blokes they are). And it was an excellently executed exercise too(give the kudos to Jarus for that). A few things could be done better though.
I thought Obinoscopy came out as the more spontaneous debater in light of his arguments and responses to rebuttals and questions while Katsumoto was well loaded for this (dude sure knows his onions).
Obinoscopy's perfomance is all the more surprising given that his was a side that on the face of it (at least that was my thinking before this debate) you would be hard pressed to find valid points. Yet he gave a masterclass from what presumably should be a doomed corner. Your reference to Somalia was particularly striking!
Kats inspite of your eggheadous perfomance (lol if there is anything like that), I'm not sure you succeeded in undeniably tying any of the problems bedevilling this nation to the 1914 Amalgamation throughout the duration of the debate. I stand to be corrected on this, perhaps I missed it.
I personally believe amalgamating the Northern and Southern Protectorates is/was a historical tragedy, but this debate made me realise that the problems in this country didn't necessarily stem from amalgamation.
All in all, it was an insightfully knowledgeable and exhilaratingly brilliant exercise!

Tony Spike: This is an extraordinary debate and I followed it since yesterday when the thread started. It's simply awesome! However, I do have soul-searching comments for Kats, Obinoscopy and all other Nairalanders.
1. Nations are mainly built on principles, core values and cultural (and social) construct of the societies that make up the nation-state. For example, America was founded based on the mutual and collective revolution of the people against the King of England's obscene taxation policy. Today, the core value is mainly centred on equality for all irrespective of who or what you are. This can be seen in the declaration of independence document. Do we have any core value at the onset of the amalgamation of 'Niger-Area'? What were the motives? Did the different ethnic nationalities have similar aspiration(s) back then? Do they still have the same aspirations today?

Let me tell remind us that the name, Nigeria, means different things to different ethnic groups today.

Tony Spike: 2. Today in Nigeria, some ethnic nationalities are at home with looting government funds, some justify the importation of 'killer' drugs as a sign of commercial adventurism, some see nothing wrong in slashing the throats of people with different religious (and genealogical) affiliation, and, some even go as far as arming rebels (their people) to 'fight' against the government. I could list as many ills in Nigeria which appears as a norm to different ethnic group and taboo to others. Aren't these signs of different core value(s) in the same nation? Isn't this purely an obvious case of amplified cultural mind-set and values at play in our nation?

I need answers to my questions from as many people as possible. Please, let us not feel offended by my frankness, I needed to drive home the point. Thanks all.

adewaleafolabi:

I totally agree with the part in bold. We've been able to do more damage, achieve world records for alarming rates of corruption, maternal and infant mortality, wide spread of epidemics and pandemics, countless avoidable loss of lives and properties, wide spread lack of trust, stupidity and senseless policies and lies from leaders, world record of clueless leaders, record for most oil dependent economy, alarming levels of brain drain and decadance of health, education, achieving infamy status of terrorism, the list is endless.

We couldn't have done it without your support and would just want to say thank you!

omoolutl: really,
i say a big "well done" to Obianoscopy cuz he really was diadvantaged by d motion. Anyone supporting d amalgamation would naturally lack points, bt he stillfound a way to generate points - d somalia thing- kudos to him
katz wz also wonderful d way he arranged his "stuff". nt many pple would av been dis good. respect man u'v earned it.

Negro_Ntns:

Obi is yet to associate the human factor with his narratives of brotherhood and progress.

In 1914 certain ethnic groups in Nigeria, Yoruba is a good example, were already far evolved above and beyond the stages of development in East or North and the amalgamation was a retardation on the natural abilities and destiny of their sociocultural evolution.

While certain groups may have been helped into enrichment and evolution by the resulting aggregation if lands and peoples, the opposite is true for the Yorubas. Amalgamation promised sovereingty and shared pool or joint ownership. Joint ownership of what, I ask? How can you be promised sovereingty over a land whose ownership has not changed hands?

To those who before amalgamation had never tasted sovereingty or had no social ideals and a robust philosophy and creed for moving their people forward, yes those people today have what they otherwise wihout the aid of the 1914 contract would ever have. Those who had it ended up loosing it and their momentum in the resulting madness and chaos of Nigerian nationhood.

Lets separate the corn from the chaff......the bottom line of SNC rests on that dissatisfaction with the loss of self identity for substitution with joint identity.

Obinoscopy:

That was the motive behind my volunteering to argue against the motion that it was a historical mistake. I know it would be difficult to argue against the motion but I chose to do it nevertheless. I did it not to win, after all even if I had won the debate that won't make Nigerians believe me, neither will it make 1914 amalgamation not to be a historical mistake. If you ask me, whether its a historical mistake or not is purely subjective. Its a thing of the mind. We are what we chose to believe.

I know Nigeria is really backward and I know one of the reasons is due to ethnic bigotry and nepotism. However I'm of the view that these ethnic bigotry is masterminded by corrupt leaders whose sole aim is to cling to power either by hook or by crook.

I believe Nigeria can work if we choose to make it work despite our ethnic diversities. If our leaders can give us good governance and enshrine social justice and if tolerance can be preached among Nigerians, Nigeria will be great. We need to be progressives and not retrogressives. The earlier we begin thinking in this direction, the better for all of us.

ortopazz:




Well I would not refuse to accept ur thanks because If you Look into the country I used as an ANALOGY, you will see its bad parts too.
My brother if your from the north blame those infrastructural problems on ur past leaders,, they had years to perfect your inadequacies for whatever reason, they Just dint do it.


If East Or West, we cant blame government for everything, I believe that they are rich individuals who spend 15ok on drinks every friday club nite etc, who just love being flamboyant, they too can do better for their brothers, buh they east have merchants who could in my opinion, come together and turn the fortunes of the east around, but they prefer to go under one umbrella to clamour for a president. They West have individuals too.

Now if you're from the south, will I tell u to scream for lack of inadequate welfare, no, I wont, but there is some one up there who does not come from a region where there is just one ethnic group buh plenty, his efforts are being thwarted by our stubborn brothers in the north, so do u blame him?

Well the bottomline is, Yes we've been known for terrible stuffs buh dont we have persons from diff. parts of the country who has brought us recognition, if In doubt check out the person with the highest CPGA in the worjd, though from the West the glory came to a collective people, NiGERIA NT YORUBAZ, if we look past boundaries we can achieve more brother.