afam4eva: @Chukwudi
Thanks for providing those bible passages. But don't you think that what those passages are saying is that you should confess your sins to anybody and not just a priest?

I think Pastors should stop habit of condemning other people's belief system.

To get things started the priest has no power to forgive on His own accord. Jesus the Church gave this powers to the 1st Pope (Peter). The priest is unda a priestly oath neva to divulge anything heard at the confessional. It is God that forgives, 'confession' is just a process to complete it. You must have settled with God before going for confession.

honeric01:

I answered, read backward, they are all there.

my questions are also all in my previous posts.

I have but can't find it.

chukwudi44: James 5:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

@op

I am sure this passages are explicit enough.The protestants should first remove the log from their eyes before trying to remove the supposed pegs in the RCC.

Adeboye should first stop the practice of compulsory tithing and first fruits obsrved in his church which are contrary to the new order.

The definition of 'elder' is superior to another in age....Priest are not the most superior people in the church. There are many priests who graduated senior seminary at say age 25 and in a few years thereafter they are ordained priest and 75-80 yrs old elders would be required to make confession to them contrary to the passage you quoted above.

...why doesn't the church also allow confessions to be made to the elders in the church?

honeric01:



All these are faults finding, rather than handle the matter on ground.
Btw, commandment is different from commission. Go into the word and preach the gospel is our obligation as the light of the world. Jesus came to preach the gospel, same is expected of Christ-likes

There's nothing wrong with presuming, if there's, show me.

Lastly, you still didn't tell me what you meant by that statement.

There is something wrong with presuming.

What befell the Israelites when, having reached the promised land, they attempted to fight against the Canaanites without God's consent?
"But they PRESUMED to go up unto the hilltop: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and Moses departed not out of the camp, Then the Amalekites came down, and the Canaanites which dwelt in that hill, and smote them, and discomfited them, even unto Hormah." Num. 14:44, 45.
How does God look upon presumption, as indicated by His dealing with ancient Israel?
"But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people." Num. 15

Mostly over zealousness is the major cause of the sin of Presumption. And its grave.

It was also the reason for Saul been dethroned.

David prayed against it too.
"Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me; then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression." Ps. 19:13.

I've only given you a quarter quotes. I expect you to find the rest.

God4moi:

I wasn't finding fault. Like you said you want to teach / learn. In teaching you need to pass the right info. Those statements were in erorr. Safe you say you're averse to corrections tho.

And did you correct me with scriptures if they were wrong?

God4moi:

There is something wrong with presuming.

What befell the Israelites when, having reached the promised land, they attempted to fight against the Canaanites without God's consent?
"But they PRESUMED to go up unto the hilltop: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and Moses departed not out of the camp, Then the Amalekites came down, and the Canaanites which dwelt in that hill, and smote them, and discomfited them, even unto Hormah." Num. 14:44, 45.
How does God look upon presumption, as indicated by His dealing with ancient Israel?
"But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people." Num. 15

Mostly over zealousness is the major cause of the sin of Presumption. And its grave.

It was also the reason for Saul been dethroned.

David prayed against it too.
"Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me; then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression." Ps. 19:13.

Hehehe, so because i predicted what you meant, now i am sinning? meaning predicting is now a sin? LOL you need more than this. trying to do God's work is sin but not when i feel i know the tides my fellow man is about taking.

I was not thinking for God, rather i was presuming for you and not God. spot the difference.

honeric01:



All these are faults finding, rather than handle the matter on ground.
Btw, commandment is different from commission. Go into the word and preach the gospel is our obligation as the light of the world. Jesus came to preach the gospel, same is expected of Christ-likes

There's nothing wrong with presuming, if there's, show me.

Lastly, you still didn't tell me what you meant by that statement.

Okay o. I've given presumption above.

I never said commandement and commission are thesame.

And Matthew 28:16-20 is known as The Great Commission and not 'greatest commission'.

You asked and I've answered yet you've not answered my own q. Hmm

honeric01:

Hehehe, so because i predicted what you meant, now i am sinning? meaning predicting is now a sin? LOL you need more than this. trying to do God's work is sin but not when i feel i know the tides my fellow man is about taking.

I was not thinking for God, rather i was presuming for you and not God. spot the difference.

You didn't predict. You presumed. And that was born outa overzealousness which is the major source of the sin. The source is thesame jst that this time the target maybe different.

linearity:

The definition of 'elder' is superior to another in age....Priest are not the most superior people in the church. There are many priests who graduated senior seminary at say age 25 and in a few years thereafter they are ordained priest and 75-80 yrs old elders would be required to make confession to them contrary to the passage you quoted above.

...why doesn't the church also allow confessions to be made to the elders in the church?

At times I wonder if people just argue for arguing sake? What's the import of. That thrash you just wrote? Do you reason @ all

God4moi:

Okay o. I've given presumption above.

I never said commandement and commission are thesame.

And Matthew 28:16-20 is known as The Great Commission and not 'greatest commission'.

You asked and I've answered yet you've not answered my own q. Hmm

The issue here is what exactly? is there anything else Christ asked us as Christians to do apart he departed earth? of what purpose is our calling into him for?

I have answered your questions before, incase you are waiting for something else, nothing else is coming apart from the answer i gave you about the elders and when you're to consult them.

God4moi:

You didn't predict. You presumed. And that was born outa overzealousness which is the major source of the sin. The source is thesame jst that this time the target maybe different.

Predict and presume, is there any difference in my case? i presumed based on your past comments on this thread?

What is the title of this thread again because i can see that we are deviating.

honeric01:

The issue here is what exactly? is there anything else Christ asked us as Christians to do apart he departed earth? of what purpose is our calling into him for?

I have answered your questions before, incase you are waiting for something else, nothing else is coming apart from the answer i gave you about the elders and when you're to consult them.



Predict and presume, is there any difference in my case? i presumed based on your past comments on this thread?

What is the title of this thread again because i can see that we are deviating.

And for the third time I didn't ask you about 'elders' I asked about the condition you put there. You're so big on 'quoting scripture' so I asked quote where its writen that "after you have prayed and God doesn't seem to be answering call elders" who you said could be 'anyone'and that is my q u've refused to answer.

James 5:14 :New International Version (©1984)
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord.

I still didn't see your asertion of "after you have prayed and God doesn't seem to be answering call. There so

chukwudi44: James 5:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

@op

I am sure this passages are explicit enough.The protestants should first remove the log from their eyes before trying to remove the supposed pegs in the RCC.

Adeboye should first stop the practice of compulsory tithing and first fruits obsrved in his church which are contrary to the new order.

Why r u so myopic,everyone has an opinion neither our church or oastor/priest will take us to heaven..(He bible said confess "one to another" not confess to the priest however I'm sure confession to the priest is done for orderliness sake...Abt Adeboye wish u knew that he's head pastor by appointment,he's nt d founding pastor,as for the jet,during a forbes investigation he was exempted from dat list cos it belongs 2 d church and not in his name as some others...We have ppl like Father Ede who is 1 of d richest clergy men in dis country too,do I critisize him cos I'm not catholic?we need 2 stop being catholic,pentecostal,baptist etc and start being christians with our focus on God not church

All these pastors should mind their buisness,how is it your buisness how one chooses to worship God.Thats why i like the catholics they don't give a damn about what any attention seeke says.

realkendy: All these pastors should mind their buisness,how is it your buisness how one chooses to worship God.Thats why i like the catholics they don't give a damn about what any attention seeke says.

They are only insecure. They're like a woman who doesn't know and trust her husband. Every woman becomes a threat. But a woman who knows and trusts her husband is not threatened by any woman. So it is with we Catholics...and Christ is the bridegroom; the Church the bride.

elbulk:


Why r u so myopic,everyone has an opinion neither our church or oastor/priest will take us to heaven..(He bible said confess "one to another" not confess to the priest however I'm sure confession to the priest is done for orderliness sake...Abt Adeboye wish u knew that he's head pastor by appointment,he's nt d founding pastor,as for the jet,during a forbes investigation he was exempted from dat list cos it belongs 2 d church and not in his name as some others...We have ppl like Father Ede who is 1 of d richest clergy men in dis country too,do I critisize him cos I'm not catholic?we need 2 stop being catholic,pentecostal,baptist etc and start being christians with our focus on God not church

I think adeboye is the one being myopic here and your 'advice' should directed to him

God4moi:

And for the third time I didn't ask you about 'elders' I asked about the condition you put there. You're so big on 'quoting scripture' so I asked quote where its writen that "after you have prayed and God doesn't seem to be answering call elders" who you said could be 'anyone'and that is my q u've refused to answer.

James 5:14 :New International Version (©1984)
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord.

I still didn't see your asertion of "after you have prayed and God doesn't seem to be answering call. There so

I gave you the conditions already.

Now let me ask you, you mean as a christian, we're not permitted to pray for ourselves when sick unless we go to the elders? why then am i a christian if i can't pray for myself? "let the weak say i am strong", "behold i have given you power to thread upon serpents and scorpions". every christian ought to pray and not faint". the only time i'd recommend any christian to go for others to pray for them is when their own faith is not enough to move God.

It not a bad thing for you to read daily devotions..... how do you read your Bible and understand it? what does your catechism tell you, the catechism is also derived from the Bible( like breaking the laws and teachings of the Holy scriptures). The Catholic has the Bible, they brought it to the world even after the reformation of the church.... am a catechism teacher from Port Harcourt.....just in case....... do not contradict the word of God.... i have more about confessing your sins.....in protestant churches they call it COUNSELING (when u are being counseled you are ask too air or confess your sins.... am @ work now..... u can mail me dave481@hotmail.com more passages coming..... Below are what you may need to enlighten yourself and also visit your local parish for more..... don't condemn other faiths....peace be with you.........

honeric01:
the only time i'd recommend any christian to go for others to pray for them is when their own faith is not enough to move God.

This is in contradiction to St. James' opinion...and I am sure he knows more than you. He think we should have others pray for us when we are sick. No mention of "enough faith to move God" or not. That one is your own addition.

DonHummer: Catholics shouldnt waste deir tym arguing wit dis pentecostals were a man can jst wak up one day nd cal hm sef a bishop compared to catholic priest dat studied 4 more dan 8 years to get ordained...stil forfeiting a woman....choi....

forfeiting a woman indeed, very funny.

italo:

This is in contradiction to St. James' opinion...and I am sure he knows more than you. He think we should have others pray for us when we are sick. No mention of "enough faith to move God" or not. That one is your own addition.

I am talking about Jesus and not James, i don't follow James, i am following Jesus.

Men ought to pray and not faint.. i hope you know what that means? i don't need anyone to pray for me when i can do the praying myself. if my faith is not enough, i simply join it with that of other believers i trust. (be it my pastor, my brother, wife, choir master or anyone who's got root in Christ).

honeric01:

I am talking about Jesus and not James, i don't follow James, i am following Jesus.

Men ought to pray and not faint.. i hope you know what that means? i don't need anyone to pray for me when i can do the praying myself. if my faith is not enough, i simply join it with that of other believers i trust. (be it my pastor, my brother, wife, choir master or anyone who's got root in Christ).

This is ridiculous!! I can 't believe what I am reading.A cristian would bring ridicule to a scriptural writing just because he wants to get back at catholics!!! So the letter of James is no longer scripture?

chukwudi44:

This is ridiculous!! I can 't believe what I am reading.A cristian would bring ridicule to a scriptural writing just because he wants to get back at catholics!!! So the letter of James is no longer scripture?

Who cares about Catholics? i don't care about any religious body be it penticostal, baptist or anglican, i am only concerned about what Jesus taught us his followers. did Jesus say we should go to others to pray for us when we are sick? Paul and peter didn't agree on alot of teachings because the man in them kept taking over them. Jesus that even taught all his disciples how to pray won't tell any of his followers to go to others to pray for them when they haven't even prayed on their own.

honeric01:

Who cares about Catholics? i don't care about any religious body be it penticostal, baptist or anglican, i am only concerned about what Jesus taught us his followers. did Jesus say we should go to others to pray for us when we are sick? Paul and peter didn't agree on alot of teachings because the man in them kept taking over them. Jesus that even taught all his disciples how to pray won't tell any of his followers to go to others to pray for them when they haven't even prayed on their own.

LMAO!!! My eyes have seen a new one today. See what anti-Catholicism can do to a so-called Christian!

The letter of St. James is not Scripture.

Meaning it wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit. That's why he could teach error.

The only thing that is Scripture is what Jesus said.

And what Jesus said was relayed to us by mere men like St. James...

So we cannot trust them to be correct.

To summarize: There is no Scripture at all.

This is the gospel according to the Honeric01

Wonders shall never end!!! So mr honeric how do we get to learn from Jesus in view of the fact that even the gospels were written by mere mortals like mattew,mark,luke and John? Can we really rely on them?

italo:

LMAO!!! My eyes have seen a new one today. See what anti-Catholicism can do to a so-called Christian!

The letter of St. James is not Scripture.

Meaning it wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit. That's why he could teach error.

The only thing that is Scripture is what Jesus said.

And what Jesus said was relayed to us by mere men like St. James...

So we cannot trust them to be correct.

To summarize: There is no Scripture at all.

This is the gospel according to the Honeric01

What was the essence of Jesus teaching all his disciples how to pray if we are not to pray for ourselves in the first place?
What then is the use of the lord's prayer?
who are to pray and who are not to pray?

Sometimes i wonder why some people are Christians sef.

Now let me help you, that passage's got more to do with the newly converted Christians who knew nothing about prayers and how to pray, if you don't know how to pray, it's okay to go to others who can pray. but if you know how to pray, why then should you still go to others without praying on your own first?

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

honeric01:

What was the essence of Jesus teaching all his disciples how to pray if we are not to pray for ourselves in the first place?
What then is the use of the lord's prayer?
who are to pray and who are not to pray?

Sometimes i wonder why some people are Christians sef.

Now let me help you, that passage's got more to do with the newly converted Christians who knew nothing about prayers and how to pray, if you don't know how to pray, it's okay to go to others who can pray. but if you know how to pray, why then should you still go to others without praying on your own first?

How do we believe anything we read from the Bible? Afterall, according to you, they were written by mere men and so cannot be trusted. There are no scriptures. How then can we even know that Jesus taught anybody to pray? The Apostles that wrote that he taught us to pray were mere men and so they could have been telling lies, or just mistaken, abi?

italo:

How do we believe anything we read from the Bible? Afterall, according to you, they were written by mere men and so cannot be trusted. There are no scriptures. How then can we even know that Jesus taught anybody to pray? The Apostles that wrote that he taught us to pray were mere men and so they could have been telling lies, or just mistaken, abi?

No time for bush-dancing.

Whose's report are you as a christian suppose to follow? that of Jesus or that of Peter?

You don't know if Jesus taught anyone to pray? who taught the disciples how to pray? Mohammed or Gandhi?

Choose now bro.

honeric01:

No time for bush-dancing.

Whose's report are you as a christian suppose to follow? that of Jesus or that of Peter?

You don't know if Jesus taught anyone to pray? who taught the disciples how to pray? Mohammed or Gandhi?

Choose now bro.

But it was you who said we cannot trust mere men, not me. So going by your reasoning pattern, how do we know what Jesus actually did or didn't say or do, since we have no writings of Jesus and we were not there to listen to him, we only read what MERE MEN wrote.

@honeric01

Did Jesus write any of the scriptures? How do we get to hear directly from him?

italo:

But it was you who said we cannot trust mere men, not me. So going by your reasoning pattern, how do we know what Jesus actually did or didn't say or do, since we have no writings of Jesus and we were not there to listen to him, we only read what MERE MEN wrote.

Stop trying to be over-smart. did Jesus teach his disciples how to pray or not? "is Men ought to pray and not faint" in the bible or not"? is "behold i have given you power over serpents and scorpions not in the bible"? did Jesus say "go into the world, preach the gospel,heal the sick, raise the dead" or not?

I said i would take Jesus's words to that of peter because both peter and paul even disagree on some beliefs.

And lastly, the "he that is sick should go to the elders for prayers" part of the chapter, was it talking to all Christians or those who can't pray?