Logicboy03:


When you and your Quran condemn unbelievers, you expect me to take it on the chin but when it is your turn you keep malice and treat us atheist as lepers.


How many times does the Quran state that the unbeliever will suffer? How many times have atheists been abused as immoral fools by muslims? Do I keep malice against you guys? I dont take these things too seriously because I see the human before the religion, just like many christians here.

You guys better change this your hostile attitude

y
you keep talking of knowing what the Qur'an says whereas you will only understand it by reading the tafsir of it. Have you ever tried that?

deols:

You should have listened to me when I told you long ago that you need to change your name. it just doesn't suit you. Unfortunately you have a load of the likes of wiegraf telling you to keep it up. I mentioned those things to counter your point on suggesting that my love for Allah is what makes a terrorist. I was making it clear that only the love for him and his commands make me leave out alcohol drinking,e.t.c.



no. don't even start to think I am like you


this is a good thing only to an atheist. God forbid that an atheist starts to like the kinda Muslim that I am. it is the pull them down syndrome or become-as-Iav-become kinda thing and that isn't going to happen with Islam and true Muslims




once again, the point I was making is, I wldnt waste my time helping your cause by talking when he wrongs you even though I disagree with his method. When did it become important that people get others's back on this forum?


No. you are highly opinionated. You wouldn't give a thought to what others have to say. You only see those things in line with what you want to think. As a Muslim, this attitude would have to change. As an atheist, anything goes and that is the reason you would more likely be an atheist with your personality. gerrit?











Here we go again. You say there's intellectual bankruptcy among Muslims. Mind you, your topic differentiates an average Muslim from an average christian. The Muslim section isnt even a true representation of who Muslims generally are. But even if Nairaland could suffice as the avenue for the comparison, it would be very bias of you to conclude on how intelligent anyone is, by what their interests are on a section without giving a holistic approach to it.

I cant be bothered with you. You engage in a crude form of "Anonyism" ( ) You dont follow the logic of what I am saying and then you project your confusion and straw men statements unto me.


In summary, I am not talking about muslims, I am talking about the average nairaland muslim. This thread is by no means trying to apply itself to all muslims in the real world.

Furthermore, Maclatunji is a a tyrant and I gave you two options

a) Shut up when atheists/christians are complaining about him if you feel that it is none of your business

b) Tell the truth when asked about him


No one is forcing you to fight maclatunji.

Logicboy03:
You seemed not to belief on the supernatural , don't you think their is something supernatural about
the initial existence of the universe? do not the initial existence of the universe and all creatures contradict natural laws ?

tip999: Logicboy03:
You seemed not to belief on the supernatural , don't you think their is something supernatural about
the initial existence of the universe? do not the initial existence of the universe and all creatures contradict natural laws ?

Well, there is the science of the big b.ang to explain the beginning of the universe for now.

There has never been evidence for the supernatural. The consistent pattern is that the religious will claim something, only for science to debunk it

Logicboy03:



I cant be bothered with you. You engage in a crude form of "Anonyism" ( ) You dont follow the logic of what I am saying and then you project your confusion and straw men statements unto me.

so, because I mentioned that your statements defy logic, you have to claim same? smh for you..you berra change ur name b4 u embarrass urself the more. you can imagine pple expecting logical reasoning to an issue, you come along, they , u talk and they become

In summary, I am not talking about muslims, I am talking about the average nairaland muslim. This thread is by no means trying to apply itself to all muslims in the real world.

whatever the case might be, it just doesnt add up still. You would even need to compare how many Nairaland Muslims there are, with how many you find on each section with what their contributions have been before making a statement of how bankrupt anyone is or is not.

Furthermore, Maclatunji is a a tyrant and I gave you two options

a) Shut up when atheists/christians are complaining about him if you feel that it is none of your business

b) Tell the truth when asked about him

and I ask, who are you to give me options? You are in no position to tell me what I should or should not do. Deal with ur maclatunji defect. It is not mine or any other person except you's problem

No one is forcing you to fight maclatunji.

No one dares!!

Logicboy03:
What? Are you kidding? The same Quran that calls unbelievers "blind", "fools", "wicked", "damned" and so on?

Is there anything really worse than believing that someone else will burn forever? Have you ever thought about burning for just one minute, not to taqlk of forever?

yes, but should it matter to you?!! you dont believe in God, or hell.

take me for instance, i will never accept Jesus the Christ as anything other than what the Qur'an says he is and for that many a chriastian has condemned me to hell. it doesnt bother me why should it bother you?

except....you having doubts, logic?

Logicboy03: Furthermore, Islam and some other religions deserve mockery because of their vile and archaic doctrines. Atheism only asks for evidence...

tell you what, give me a specific exmple, show me how it's so, and give me atheism's credible alternative.

Logicboy03: Can you see yourself? You dont care because your religion has made you heartless to the unbeliever. There is a reason why many Westerners refer to some muslims as sadistic animals."

your westerners have long lost the right to call anyone sadistic.

Logicboy03: It is not a threat. Just a recommendation. It is a bad pr for your religion to be hostile

gotcha..........but it sounded like a threat.

Logicboy03:"Well, there is the science of the big bang to explain the beginning of the universe for now.

There has never been evidence for the supernatural. The consistent pattern is that the religious will claim something, only for science to debunk it"
Ok big bang explained how the universe came into being . If matter cannot be created neither be destroy how does it came
into being , if that does not contradict natural laws ? what do you say?

deols:

so, because I mentioned that your statements defy logic, you have to claim same? smh for you..you berra change ur name b4 u embarrass urself the more. you can imagine pple expecting logical reasoning to an issue, you come along, they , u talk and they become



whatever the case might be, it just doesnt add up still. You would even need to compare how many Nairaland Muslims there are, with how many you find on each section with what their contributions have been before making a statement of how bankrupt anyone is or is not.


and I ask, who are you to give me options? You are in no position to tell me what I should or should not do. Deal with ur maclatunji defect. It is not mine or any other person except you's problem




No one dares!!

As usual, you misunderstand. Maybe we should discuss something more intellectually challenging like Haram vs Halal swimwear or men's clothing?

tip999: Logicboy03:"Well, there is the science of the big bang to explain the beginning of the universe for now.

There has never been evidence for the supernatural. The consistent pattern is that the religious will claim something, only for science to debunk it"
Ok big bang explained how the universe came into being . If matter cannot be created neither be destroy how does it came
into being , if that does not contradict natural laws ? what do you say?

The big b.ang is an expansion of space- space is something.

F00028:
yes, but should it matter to you?!! you dont believe in God, or hell.

take me for instance, i will never accept Jesus the Christ as anything other than what the Qur'an says he is and for that many a chriastian has condemned me to hell. it doesnt bother me why should it bother you?

except....you having doubts, logic?


tell you what, give me a specific exmple, show me how it's so, and give me atheism's credible alternative.


your westerners have long lost the right to call anyone sadistic.


gotcha..........but it sounded like a threat.

I am not afraid of hell, what I am afraid of is the people who believe in hell so much that they use it to abuse young children who dont know any better into nightmares. Its the people that believe in hell that are dangerous. Imagine someone refusing to work with others because he believes that they are associates with the devil because of their disbelief.



An example of where islam is vile and fails is in the area of inheritance. If I follow Islam, I deserve twice of what my rich father leaves behind while my sisters get half of what I get. This doesnt make sense because my sisters are older and have taken care of my dad for a very long time. All I do is blow his money. A better non-islamic solution is to share the inheritance according to who has worked for it the most. simple

"The big b.ang is an expansion of space- space is something."
How does space came into being, if space is something ? When did it came into being ,until it started expanding ?
There is something therein which contradict natural laws ?

tip999: "The big b.ang is an expansion of space- space is something."
How does space came into being, if space is something ? When did it came into being ,until it started expanding ?
There is something therein which contradict natural laws ?

Well, we dont know and scientists are trying to find out.

However, you engage in god of the gaps argument to jump from "we dont know" to "god did it"

logicboy03:"Well, we dont know and scientists are trying to find out.

However, you engage in god of the gaps argument to jump from "we dont know" to "god did it"
But you also jump into conclusion that "no god did it". Until you bow to the supernatural creation of the universe
you can never find the mystery behind its creation.

tip999: logicboy03:"Well, we dont know and scientists are trying to find out.

However, you engage in god of the gaps argument to jump from "we dont know" to "god did it"
But you also jump into conclusion that "no god did it". Until you bow to the supernatural creation of the universe
you can never find the mystery behind its creation.

We could be in an oscillating universe. There is no evidence for god. I didn not jump into any conclusion. I started from what we know- the big b.ang. You jumped into a conclusion that god did it.

Religious people like you said that Adam and Eve was a true story until scientists understood evolution. God has been shrinking rapidly since the 19th century.

"We could be in an oscillating universe. There is no evidence for god. I didn not jump into any conclusion. I started from what we know- the big b.ang. You jumped into a conclusion that god did it.

Religious people like you said that Adam and Eve was a true story until scientists understood evolution. God has been shrinking rapidly since the 19th century."
I know you will not belief an aircraft coming into being without being made but you will want to belief the existence of
a universe with perfect sequences which came into being by chance, without being created by an intelligence being ?

tip999: "We could be in an oscillating universe. There is no evidence for god. I didn not jump into any conclusion. I started from what we know- the big b.ang. You jumped into a conclusion that god did it.

Religious people like you said that Adam and Eve was a true story until scientists understood evolution. God has been shrinking rapidly since the 19th century."
I know you will not belief an aircraft coming into being without being made but you will want to belief the existence of
a universe with perfect sequences which came into being by chance, without being created by an intelligence being ?

Design of an organic thing is quiet different from an inorganic thing

Logicboy03:
An example of where islam is vile and fails is in the area of inheritance. If I follow Islam, I deserve twice of what my rich father leaves behind while my sisters get half of what I get. This doesnt make sense because my sisters are older and have taken care of my dad for a very long time. All I do is blow his money.

well, if you are a no good, irresponsible, selfish, spoilt brat it doesnt mean we all are. (hypothetically speaking of course)

Islam builds a cohesive society starting with the family unit. in our system who gets what isn't the most important thing. though i know that may hard to accept from your materialistic and individualistic standpoint.

Logicboy03: A better non-islamic solution is to share the inheritance according to who has worked for it the most. simple

fine.
who determines the inheritance?

what will constitute "worked for it"?

if he leaves an infant child who hasn't "worked for it" does he get nothing?

what happens when a man dies suddenly and didnt need any care?

and, where is this system of yours being practiced that's working better?

F00028:
well, if you are a no good, irresponsible, selfish, spoilt brat it doesnt mean we all are. (hypothetically speaking of course)

Islam builds a cohesive society starting with the family unit. in our system who gets what isn't the most important thing. though i know that may hard to accept from your materialistic and individualistic standpoint.


fine.
who determines the inheritance?

what will constitute "worked for it"?

if he leaves an infant child who hasn't "worked for it" does he get nothing?

what happens when a man dies suddenly and didnt need any care?

and, where is this system of yours being practiced that's working better?

If only Vedaxcool and LagosShia could be reasonable like you.................




Okay. I like your questions. Understand that I was relating inheritance laws to my family. There are no infants in my immediate family

If you want a general rule better than islam, then let me give it to you.



The first base that has to be covered is that every child should get equal share of their father's (or parents) wealth if there is no will.
-If all the children were infants this would easily apply
-The wife (or husband) as the next of kin gets the control of the estate if she is alive
-This is the fairest method rather than subjective measures by age or favourite child!


The default position for inheritance is the will of the father (or mom)
-It is his money/property and he will share it as he damn pleases.



Having a will simplifies things. This is what Western countries normally do.


I wonder how Islam works with numerous wives and chidlren

logic, you raise more questions than you give answers.

Logicboy03:
-The wife (or husband) as the next of kin gets the control of the estate if she is alive

what happens if he had more than one wife?
and dont tell me you dont know non muslims practice polygamy.

Logicboy03:
-This is the fairest method rather than subjective measures by age or favourite child!

you said a will was the default position, and so it is subjective. he can favour one child to the detriment of other children. will there be no protection for heirs in such cases in your system?

Logicboy03: The default position for inheritance is the will of the father (or mom)
-It is his money/property and he will share it as he damn pleases.

so if a man decides to leave to the girls a quarter of what he leaves to the boys that should be alright then?

Logicboy03: I wonder how Islam works with numerous wives and chidlren

oh, we do just great!

our system "comprises beyond question the most refined and elaborate system of rules for the devolution of property that is known to the civilised world." - prof. rumsey, Moohummudan Law of Inheritance. (1880) Preface iii

F00028: logic, you raise more questions than you give answers.


what happens if he had more than one wife?
and dont tell me you dont know non muslims practice polygamy.


you said a will was the default position, and so it is subjective. he can favour one child to the detriment of other children. will there be no protection for heirs in such cases in your system?


so if a man decides to leave to the girls a quarter of what he leaves to the boys that should be alright then?


oh, we do just great!

our system "comprises beyond question the most refined and elaborate system of rules for the devolution of property that is known to the civilised world." - prof. rumsey, Moohummudan Law of Inheritance. (1880) Preface iii

1) Polygamy is not allowed in any civilized western country. We arent savages. So your question goes out the window. Polygamy is something your inheritance law will have to face since it is legal in muslim countries


2) The will is the will. A man has the right to spend his money how he feels like. That is why it is in all cultures that parents must be respected. I'm an atheist but I dont go around debunking my christian pops like how I debunk religious peeps here.

Only a sick parent would want his child to suffer. The kind of parent that will disown his or her child because she marries a kaffir

Logicboy03:
1) Polygamy is not allowed in any civilized western country. We arent savages....

well, look who's a uppity lil' negro?!
(sorry. but you asked for it)

is the west all you care about and can cater for. cant your atheism provide universally applicable, practicable solutions??

you mean say nothing for your black, traditional, polygamous atheist brothers? abi dem must all come live for england?

Logicboy03:
2) The will is the will. A man has the right to spend his money how he feels like. That is why it is in all cultures that parents must be respected. I'm an atheist but I dont go around debunking my christian pops like how I debunk religious peeps here.

Only a sick parent would want his child to suffer. The kind of parent that will disown his or her child because she marries a kaffir

yeah well, what happens in the case of "sick parent" who leaves evetything to his dog? is there any recourse in your better system open to his human dependants?

what if he leaves the bulk of his etate to his mistress and leaves poor wifey and the kids with peanuts? would that be okay?

F00028:
well, look who's a uppity lil' negro?!
(sorry. but you asked for it)

is the west all you care about and can cater for. cant your atheism provide universally applicable, practicable solutions??

you mean say nothing for your black, traditional, polygamous atheist brothers? abi dem must all come live for england?

What nonsense are you talking about? Polygamy is backwards. Ciivilized societies do not engage in such. Sorry.

The black traditional people that are polygamous nowadays are muslims and pagans.

F00028:
yeah well, what happens in the case of "sick parent" who leaves evetything to his dog? is there any recourse in your better system open to his human dependants?

what if he leaves the bulk of his etate to his mistress and leaves poor wifey and the kids with peanuts? would that be okay?

Laws are made for rational people. A sick muslim can also burn all his money before he dies and leaves the family with no money. T


Furthermore, the law is that the husband and wife split the estate 50/50 (without a prenuptial agreement). He cant will everything to his mistress as long as he doesnt sign a prenuptial agreement. There is also child support for underage children etc.


Lets look at your islamic law.

Disadvantages of islamic inheritance


1) The numbers dont add up
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Add_up.html

2) Female children are guaranteed to be cheated

3) Forces a man to share his money which might not be according to his will

tpia1: as per the rest of your post, well, they are muslim.

religion comes first, unlike with christianity where many can place their secular lives ahead of theological considerations [not saying anything's wrong with that].

agreed

Logicboy03:

For once I agree with you!

most muslim hardly display there faith unless u ask them. While christians assume everybody to be christian.

larrymoore: most muslim hardly display there faith unless u ask them. While christians assume everybody to be christian.

hmmm....

Logicboy03:
What nonsense are you talking about? Polygamy is backwards....

SAYS WHO?! by what objective standard do you declare it so? or is it 'cos white people don't like it ?

Logicboy03: Laws are made for rational people...

laws are also made to protect the weak, deter mischief and remedy wrongs. obviously your better system is failing in that department.

Logicboy03:
Furthermore, the law is that the husband and wife split the estate 50/50 (without a prenuptial agreement). He cant will everything to his mistress as long as he doesnt sign a prenuptial agreement. There is also child support for underage children etc.

so, to leave wifey out of it i just need a prenup?

well, thats reassuring.

Logicboy03:
Lets look at your islamic law...

why according to you, you have a better system.

mazaje: The main difference between christians and muslims every where is indoctrination. The christian religion indoctrinates the average christian in a very different way islam indoctrinates the average muslim. I was both a christian and a muslim so i can say a word or two about it. Islam indoctrinates with excessive fear. It makes you believe if you doubt anything the religion teaches you will die immediately or some kind of evil will befall you. Islam says you are allah's slave and the relationship that exist btw muslims and allah is the master slave relationship, you are to accept the laid out commands and fully obey them with out complain. Allah says and that's all that matters. Allah is not your father, he is your master and you are his slave and that's all. Fear allah or be doomed that's all what islam teaches, fear fear fear and that's all. . .Everything begins and ends with fear. If allah says kill the infidels then they must be killed because allah is the master and as muslims your only duty is to worship allah and do what he says as the master. Slave are not supposed to have an opinion because only the opinion of the master counts. That's why muslims cry when allah or mohammed are ridiculed or insulted. They have been indoctrinated to believe that they are the ones that are supposed to fight when allah or mohammed are insulted. Allah is way to powerful and too big for people to insult him according to the way they were indoctrinated. He is the ultimate master and should never be joked with in any way. When i was a muslim even as a kid i was way too afraid. I was told my duty as a human being was to do all of allah's command. What ever is written in the koran is the untimate and as slaves we are just to obey without asking questions.

For christianity it is very different. The fear also plays a part but christianity comes with the fact that we are all yahweh's children and as such we have a "personal relationship" with him, the bible uses words like "comes let us reason together says the lord" in some parts so christians use that nuance to do many things like interject their personal opinions and interpretations. The relationship is not predicated on the master slave relationship like in islam which makes it not so rigid. Christians are always evolving on their positions because of the personal relationship they feel they have with their god unlike muslism who have no personal relationship with allah. The character of yahweh is also very contradictory that christians can easily cherry pick which character they want to go with and be very comfortable. If you want the violent fire and brimstone god who is a master the bible will provide you with that. . If you want the meek and fatherly type of god the bible will also provide you with it. Yahweh has no definite character based on the bible, its very easy to make out of him what ever you want to. Christianity like islam is also about serving yahweh or facing doom but due to the fact that there is this element of father child relationship it allows people to do what ever they want while still claiming that they are christians. The excessive fear factor does not exist in christianity the way it does in islam. Muslims must put islam first before themselves. . Christians on the other hand normally put their christianity and themselves on the same level.

also, christianity admits modification in faith while lslam doesnt.

F00028:
SAYS WHO?! by what objective standard do you declare it so? or is it 'cos white people don't like it ?


laws are also made to protect the weak, deter mischief and remedy wrongs. obviously your better system is failing in that department.


so, to leave wifey out of it i just need a prenup?

well, thats reassuring.


why according to you, you have a better system.

You are just arguing for argument sake.

maclatunji: Awwwwwww, what a cute thread by my regular "banee". I am sure your ego has been well-massaged.
#LOL

Reyginus: You're intellectually bankrupt. Go back to your sharia section please.

Logicboy03:
dont mind the animal.

Abeg, make you leave our very own MORSIlatunji alone o! D

@ MORSIlatunji
How our MORSIkinatu sef? I haven't seen her since she binned the 'prophet says God told him to have s:e/x with your child' thread. D

seyibrown:





Abeg, make you leave our very own MORSIlatunji alone o! D

@ MORSIlatunji
How our MORSIkinatu sef? I haven't seen her since she binned the 'prophet says God told him to have s:e/x with your child' thread. D

Morsi? How befitting

larrymoore: also, christianity admits modification in faith while lslam doesnt.

Over time muslims will have to accept modifications in their faith to survive, muslims have gradually started doing that in the west. . .

i wonder how Islam is modifying itself in the west? is there a verse changed from the original or abrogated in the west while in the east you ill find it as it was originally?

Lets look at your islamic law.

Disadvantages of islamic inheritance


1) The numbers dont add up
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Add_up.html

if i buy a middle size pizza from Papa John because there were just 3 of us that were going to eat it while watching New England patriot being crushed by New York giants the crust sliced in six pieces from the store. If by the time the delivery knocked, 2 other friends showed up, make us 5 people to munch on this pizza now. is there anything wrong if we take a pizza cutter and make 6 slices into slices where if we are to have equal amount each will have 1/5 of the pie, instead when each of the original 3 will have a 1/3. since we had 6 slices before, what is normal is that we can slice each slice into 5 smaller slices and each takes a slice from each new 5 slices fro each of the 6 original or we can just take 1 slice each of the original 6 and the 6th slice divide it equally into 5 smaller sizes as the last portion for each of us. That is equity.

if on the other hand, there are beautiful women among us who eat like birds, you can expect them to less than their husbands. lets say the husbands eat double what they women eat. We know that women will still make men pay.

This is the reality of life. and since one person paid for the pizza, what everyone else got in portion is a freebee.

this is what inheritance is and it distribution because the total is always a whole pie. slicing is is distributing it appropriately according to position, gender and group. but it is always a freebee.

2) Female children are guaranteed to be cheated

female children are retired even before they started any job. they are wards of their father, maybe their brothers, but definitely their husbands. even if you become a neurosurgeon, you may decide not to do anything. how is she cheated when somebody is paying through the noses to upkeep her?

3) Forces a man to share his money which might not be according to his will

men take it as badge of honor to care for their women folks. I do. I dislike any of my women to work.