deSika:

what if what Alexis wrote is correct, what if that is exactly what is written in the hadith.
1. would you change your position and defend your Muhammad or Allah
2. or would you stick to the highlighted. and by so doing telling us that a. your hadiths and Muhammad just promoted shirk. b. that you know what is shirk but your Muhammad does not know, therefore you lanrexlan is wiser than your Muhammad.

its a challenge from me to you, will you take it.

Let me tell you about Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat;This is describing Allah the Most High and naming Him with whatever He described and named Himself with and with whatever His Messenger(pbuh)described and named Him with in the authentic narrations-and to affirm that for Allaah without resemblance(to the creation) or likening (to the creation), and without (false)interpretation (of any of that) or negation(of any of that).There is nothing like Him and He is the All-Hearer,the All-Seer.What I am trying to explain is that there's no way you have a picture of Allah in your mind without giving the resemblance to one His creature and this will go against tawheed.For example,Allah talked about his shin in the glorious Quran,have we seen it before? No,but we believed Allah possessed this quality and it befits Him alone without giving resemblance to any of his creature or negating its meaning.If you try to think how Allah's shin looks like,you will definitely think and give resemblance of Allah's shin to that of a man and that's against tawheed.There's none comparable to Him.....Peace

callingchristians.com/2013/06/.../refutation-idolatry-and-islamic-worship...




. . . As for the argument we expect – if God does not take a form, as Anthony argues through his application of Christian theology upon Islamic scripture, how can we see God, or how are we to understand that we can ‘behold’ God? We read from Ibn ‘Abd al-Salam’s, “al-Fatawa al-Mawsiliyya“, the following:


. . .We read the following from Shaykh Faraz Rabbani who in response to this question, “Then how can we see Allah? Wouldn’t it entail affirming a direction, body, and form for Allah?“, he states the following:

No, it doesn’t–because the beholding of Allah Most High is “without resemblance [to the beholding of created things] and without encompassing,” as Imam Ibrahim Laqani mentions in his primer on Islamic beliefs, Jawharat al-Tawhid.

It is completely possible for Allah to create beholding in His servants, without there being physical directionality between them and Him.

This beholding is one of the greatest of spiritual favors. May Allah make us of those who are granted ultimate felicity, through true following of the Beloved Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). . . .




. . . “It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah’s permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise.” – 42:51.

This veil according to two ahadith is light, as Shaykh Salih al Munajjid explains:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) on the night of the Mi’raaj (ascent into heaven) did not see his Lord. He was asked ‘Did you see your Lord?’ He said, “I saw Light.” According to another report: “Light – how could I see Him?” i.e., between me and Him there was a great veil of light. According to a hadeeth in al-Saheeh, it is narrated that Allaah is veiled in Light. That appears in the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “His veil is Light and if He were to remove it, the glory of His Countenance would burn everything of His creation, as far as His gaze reaches.” Because His sight reaches everything, and everything would be burned by this immense Light. . . .





“Concerning the vision of Allah Most High in the hereafter, He shall be seen with the light which He created in the eyes in addition to the light of knowledge. For vision unveils what knowledge does not unveil, and if the exalted Lord wanted to create in the heart a light such as the one He created in the eyes so that it could look at Him by means of it, it would not be difficult for Him at all. Nay – if He wanted to create the light of the heart and that of the eyes in the hands and the feet and the nails it would not be difficult for Him at all!”. . . .




. . . . “It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah’s permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise.” – 42:51.

This veil according to two ahadith is light, as Shaykh Salih al Munajjid explains:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) on the night of the Mi’raaj (ascent into heaven) did not see his Lord. He was asked ‘Did you see your Lord?’ He said, “I saw Light.” According to another report: “Light – how could I see Him?” i.e., between me and Him there was a great veil of light. According to a hadeeth in al-Saheeh, it is narrated that Allaah is veiled in Light. That appears in the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “His veil is Light and if He were to remove it, the glory of His Countenance would burn everything of His creation, as far as His gaze reaches.” Because His sight reaches everything, and everything would be burned by this immense Light. . . .






. . . .“Allāh Most High will be seen in the Hereafter. The believers will see Him, while in Paradise, with their own eyes, without any comparison or modality. There will not be any distance between Him and His creation.”

- Imām Abū Ḥanīfa (raḍīAllāhu taʻālā anhu), from ‘Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar’

“The vision of the transcendent holy essence of God, the Sublime and Exalted, without encirclement or direction is true and real for the People of Paradise. However, this vision is not with dimensions or limits, due to God’s transcendence beyond finiteness, descriptions, limits and containment. It is a-modal [bi lā kayf] in it’s nature and has no direction, distance, description or light rays connecting the seer and the seen, nor any distance between the one gazing and the object of his gaze, for all of that is related to the vision to the vision of bodies and substances, and God, the Sublime and Exalted, is not a body contained in dimensions. Therefore, envisioning God, the Sublime and Exalted, cannot be likened gazing upon a body. Vision is in accordance with what is being seen.”

-ʿAbdal Ghanī al-Maydānī [Sharḥ al-ʿaqīdah al-Ṭahāwiyyah al-musammāt bayān al-sunnah wa al-jamā‘ah, p. 71 (Damascus: Dār al-Fikr, 1997)]

lanrexlan: Let me tell you about Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat;This
is describing Allah the Most High and naming Him with whatever He
described and named Himself with and with whatever His
Messenger(pbuh)described and named Him with in the authentic
narrations-and to affirm that for Allaah without resemblance(to the
creation) or likening (to the creation), and without
(false)interpretation (of any of that) or negation(of any of
that).There is nothing like Him and He is the All-Hearer,the
All-Seer.What I am trying to explain is that there's no way you have a
picture of Allah in your mind without giving the resemblance to one His
creature and this will go against tawheed.For example,Allah talked about
his shin in the glorious Quran,have we seen it before? No,but we
believed Allah possessed this quality and it befits Him alone without
giving resemblance to any of his creature or negating its meaning.If you
try to think how Allah's shin looks like,you will definitely think and
give resemblance of Allah's shin to that of a man and that's against
tawheed.There's none comparable to Him.....Peace

pls go back
and read my post again, its a challenge am bringing to you. Will you
take it. What will you do if you see that what Alexis posted is actually
what the hadith said.

deSika:

what if what Alexis wrote is correct, what if that is exactly what is
written in the hadith.
1. would you change your position and defend your Muhammad or Allah
2. or would you stick to the highlighted. and by so doing telling us
that a. your hadiths and Muhammad just promoted shirk. b. that you know
what is shirk but your Muhammad does not know, therefore you lanrexlan
is wiser than your Muhammad.

its a challenge from me to you, will you take it.

.

.

deSika:
pls go back
and read my post again, its a challenge am bringing to you. Will you
take it. What will you do if you see that what Alexis posted is actually
what the hadith said.

Prophet muhammed(pbuh) never told muslims to have a picture of Allah in their minds.If what alexis wrote is right because I am still checking,the hadith is talking about what will happen on the day of Judgement.Having picture of Allah when on earth is shirk and prophet muhammed(pbuh) never endorsed that....Peace

lanrexlan: Prophet muhammed(pbuh) never told muslims to have a picture of Allah in their minds.If what alexis wrote is right because I am still checking,the hadith is talking about what will happen on the day of Judgement.Having picture of Allah when on earth is shirk and prophet muhammed(pbuh) never endorsed that....Peace

simple. will you take my challenge or not

Alexis brought up a hadith that shows where Muhammad said " Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

if the above is true, what will yu Lanrexlan do.
1. will you defend Muhammad and say that Allah will really come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in their minds. this is what Muhammad said in the hadith

2. or will you stick to what you said, that having a picture in their mind is shirk [whereas Muhammad said they will have a picture in their mind, and its the shape nearest to the picture that Allah will appear to them.]

you are not running away from this. take the challenge, then i will bring up that hadith from islamic sites.

deSika:
simple. will you take my challenge or not

Alexis brought up a hadith that shows where Muhammad said " Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

if the above is true, what will yu Lanrexlan do.
1. will you defend Muhammad and say that Allah will really come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in their minds. this is what Muhammad said in the hadith

2. or will you stick to what you said, that having a picture in their mind is shirk [whereas Muhammad said they will have a picture in their mind, and its the shape nearest to the picture that Allah will appear to them.]

you are not running away from this. take the challenge, then i will bring up that hadith from islamic sites.

There's no need taking any challenge,I still stand on what I said.Having a picture of Allah in mind when on earth isn't allowed and prophet muhammed(pbuh)didn't tell anyone to have a picture of Allah in his mind,the hadith is talking about the day of Judgement which hasn't happen.It's the future.

It's narrated on the authority of Abu Huraraih;Allah's messenger(pbuh)said;The first batch of people who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like the moon on a full moon night and those who will enter next will be glittering like the brightest star.THEIR HEARTS WILL BE AS IF THE HEART OF A SINGLE MAN for they will have neither differences nor any enmity amongst themselves..............[Sahih Bukhari 4;3246].

You can see that some things will change on the day of Judgement,if THE believers' hearts is like that of A SINGLE MAN,then it makes sense if THE hadith says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the one they have in their minds,since their HEARTS is like that of a single man.What I am saying is that if everyone has different picture of Allah in their minds,then which picture will Allah appear to them? That's my stand in the first instance,Allah knows best what will happen on judgement day.

I just verified the hadith alexis posted,I mistook it for another hadith of the same narrator with the same context,only what's different is where he highlighted that says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in mind about Him.The hadith I mistook for it is that of sahih Bukhari 9;7439,the place he highlighted says Allah will come to them in a shape other than the one they saw the first time.That's the only difference in both hadiths,my mistakes for not verifying in the first instance,accept my apology......Peace

deSika:
simple. will you take my challenge or not

Alexis brought up a hadith that shows where Muhammad said " Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

if the above is true, what will yu Lanrexlan do.
1. will you defend Muhammad and say that Allah will really come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in their minds. this is what Muhammad said in the hadith

2. or will you stick to what you said, that having a picture in their mind is shirk [whereas Muhammad said they will have a picture in their mind, and its the shape nearest to the picture that Allah will appear to them.]

you are not running away from this. take the challenge, then i will bring up that hadith from islamic sites.

Simple, you seek for understanding of the hadith within Islamic context. This is beyond those who call Sahih Bukhari an Islamic 'Holy Book'.

There is a long sequence of things that will happen on the day of judgement before what that particular hadith talks about happens.

A detailed explanation is given here http://islam1.org/khutub/Events_Judgement_Day.htm

maclatunji:

Simple, you seek for understanding of the hadith within Islamic context. This is beyond those who call Sahih Bukhari an Islamic 'Holy Book'.

There is a long sequence of things that will happen on the day of judgement [size=14pt] before what that particular hadith talks about happens.[/size]

question is will it happen or not.

if it happens, will those people who have pictures in their mind be commiting shirk

if they will be commiting shirk, then why will Allah appear to them in the shape nearest the picture......
doesnt he know that that would be shirk

lanrexlan: There's no need taking any challenge,I still stand on what I said.Having a picture of Allah in mind when on earth isn't allowed and prophet muhammed(pbuh)didn't tell anyone to have a picture of Allah in his mind,the hadith is talking about the day of Judgement which hasn't happen.It's the future.

It's narrated on the authority of Abu Huraraih;Allah's messenger(pbuh)said;The first batch of people who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like the moon on a full moon night and those who will enter next will be glittering like the brightest star.THEIR HEARTS WILL BE AS IF THE HEART OF A SINGLE MAN for they will have neither differences nor any enmity amongst themselves..............[Sahih Bukhari 4;3246].

You can see that some things will change on the day of Judgement,if THE believers' hearts is like that of A SINGLE MAN,then it makes sense if THE hadith says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the one they have in their minds,since their HEARTS is like that of a single man.What I am saying is that if everyone has different picture of Allah in their minds,then which picture will Allah appear to them? That's my stand in the first instance,Allah knows best what will happen on judgement day.

I just verified the hadith alexis posted,I mistook it for another hadith of the same narrator with the same context,only what's different is where he highlighted that says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in mind about Him.The hadith I mistook for it is that of sahih Bukhari 9;7439,the place he highlighted says Allah will come to them in a shape other than the one they saw the first time.That's the only difference in both hadiths,my mistakes for not verifying in the first instance,accept my apology......Peace

you should not apologize to me, you should apologise to Alexis who you called a liar here

lanrexlan: The place alexis highlighted is not in the hadith,he decided to add his own words.

lanrexlan: That means alexis is lieing,that part he highlighted isn't in the hadith.

so i take it that you standby what you initially said here

lanrexlan:
Having a picture of Allah in one's mind isn't allowed in islam.It's shirk,

but Muhammad says Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

now the question is not whether they have different images or single image about Allah. the question is having any image at all about Allah

so what you have just said is that
1. the people who Allah will appear to in a SHAPE NEAREST the IMAGE THEY HAVE OF ALLAH will be commiting shirk

2. Muhammad said some people will be commiting shirk on judgement day, because they would certainly have an image in their mind (whether same image or different images)

3. Allah would be appearing to poeple who are commiting shirk, people who have a PICTURE of him in thier mind. [lanrexlan says having picture of Allah is shirk]

thank you, wiseman lanrexlan. you have just done what the thread asks. you have just taught non muslims that
Allah will be appearing to people who had pictures of him in a shape that is cloosest to that picture, and therefore would be appearing to shirk commiting muslims. Allah loves shirk commiting muslims

#extending handshake......good job, good job, good job

where is Mac, he needs more lectures from Wiseman Lanrexlan.

deSika:

you should not apologize to me, you should apologise to Alexis who you called a liar here


so i take it that you standby what you initially said here



but Muhammad says Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

now the question is not whether they have different images or single image about Allah. the question is having any image at all about Allah

so what you have just said is that
1. the people who Allah will appear to in a SHAPE NEAREST the IMAGE THEY HAVE OF ALLAH will be commiting shirk

2. Muhammad said some people will be commiting shirk on judgement day, because they would certainly have an image in their mind (whether same image or different images)

3. Allah would be appearing to poeple who are commiting shirk, people who have a PICTURE of him in thier mind. [lanrexlan says having picture of Allah is shirk]

thank you, wiseman lanrexlan. you have just done what the thread asks. you have just taught non muslims that
Allah will be appearing to people who had pictures of him in a shape that is cloosest to that picture, and therefore would be appearing to shirk commiting muslims.

#extending handshake......good job, good job, good job

I thought you can think,that's why I explained it to you.Do you even know the meaning of shirk? Will there be worship on the day of Judgement? Why are you thinking like this? You just showed me how ignorant you are,no need telling you anything again.....Peace

lanrexlan: I thought you can think,that's why I explained it to you.Do you even know the meaning of shirk? Will there be worship on the day of Judgement? Why are you thinking like this? You just showed me how ignorant you are,no need telling you anything again.....Peace

oops!

chill Wiseman
this is what you said

lanrexlan: then it makes sense if THE hadith says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the one they have in their minds,since their HEARTS is like that of a single man.

if their hearts become like that of a single man, does it now make what is bad good. if having picture in their mind is bad (shirk) when they are not single, then how will becoming single make the same act of "having picture of Allah(shirk)" good.

point is having picture in thier mind is shirk, whether on judgement day or present day. shirk is shirk

where is Ayenny, and the rest, they need to learn from the Wiseman Lan........good job.

deSika:

question is will it happen or not.

if it happens, will those people who have pictures in their mind be commiting shirk

if they will be commiting shirk, then why will Allah appear to them in the shape nearest the picture......
doesnt he know that that would be shirk

It will not be possible to commit shirk or any other sin on the day of judgement. I said it earlier, the rules would have changed.

maclatunji:

It will not be possible to commit shirk or any other sin on the day of judgement. I said it earlier, the rules would have changed.

Bro maclatunji,don't mind him jare,I thought he will be able to reason but he just proved me wrong.The day of Judgement that everyone will be recompense for his or her deeds,how will worship takes place again? But he can't think

maclatunji:

It will not be possible to commit shirk or any other sin on the day of judgement. I said it earlier, the rules would have changed.

Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in their minds about Him.

my problem is the fact that they will have a picture of Allah, shirk and you say it is wrong now, but it will not be wrong later. on what ground will a serious sin as shirk stop being a sin.

are yu trying to say, that the things that are sin now, will no longer be sin later on.

thats a new one am learning about islam, you guys are really attending to the thread, teaching non muslims what islam is about.

so atleast now i know that
for now shirk is a sin, but later it will no longer be a sin. what about fornication and robbery will they stop being sin too. just asking

lanrexlan: Bro maclatunji,don't mind him jare,I thought he will be able to reason but he just proved me wrong.The day of Judgement that everyone will be recompense for his or her deeds,how will worship takes place again? But he can't think

bring it on Wiseman, why dont you defend your points, instead of "i thought he will be able to reason".

Will Allah appear in a shape closest to the picture in their minds.....YES
Is having picture of Allah in their mind sin/shirk .....YES
So Allah will appear to people having picture, commiting shirk ..... hmm i wonder


part 2

can a sin cease to be a sin? .....YES according to Wisemen Lanrexlan and Maclantunji
for real will all sins no longer be sins, as in muslims will be free to commit them! .....Maclantunji says that the rules will change though he did not explain who will change it and how(maybe he will be part of the commitee for 'change of rules' when that time comes SMH)

olamkas:
friend,I swear it again,there's nothing you can use to describe or justify your trinity.it is FALSE. No where to be found in the holy books.
i don't even know who originated this evil ideology

Your level of understanding has been blinded by your refusal to understand others religious beliefs. The same way you are showing intolerance to others belief is the same way Islam can't co-exist with others. I will say it and keep saying it -

CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN ONE GOD

olamkas:
so you believed the hadith right?did you not read the aspect which says ''Afterwards the Christians will be called upon and it will be said to them, 'Who do you use to worship?' They will say, 'We used to worship Jesus, the son of Allah.' It will be said to them, 'You are liars, for Allah has never taken anyone as a wife or a son,' Then it will be said to them, 'What do you want?' They will say what the former people have said...''

Trying hard to defend Islam huh - your muslim brothers are the ones that said Allah can't be described or attributed to anything - the Hadith above CLEARLY tells us other-wise. Either you don't know how to read or you are to ask your Imam what the above verse means. It surprises me that muslims don't read their Holy Books. Later, they will come here and shout - Allah can't be described, Allah is this, Allah is that.

If you don't understand the above, then you should even post on this thread

lanrexlan: Brother olamkas,don't waste your time with him jare.The place he painted red isn't in the hadith,he decided to add his own words,I am pleading with you bro,don't waste your precious time with him..........Peace

Please refer us to the Hadith so we can read whether it is there or not.

blenble:

there is alot u dnt knw abt Jehovah witness!

Why not answer His question? What do u say abt yourself? Are u three since u r made up of the spirit ,soul and body?

Islam and Jehovah witness have a lot in common - They believe Jesus is a mere man, that is why tintingz loves them so much

maclatunji:

Your ignorance is pathetic and laughable. Sahih Bukhari is an Holy Book? What will you tell us next? Moses (AS) is an angel? #LOL

Stop side-stepping the question Al Bukhari records and statements are part of the Hadith and muslims view it as a holy text and inspired by Allah. Bone is hooking your throat now so you have decided to evade the matter at hand and cherry pick irrelevant statements.

blenble:

well,are u denying ur hadiths again?

Next, he will tell you Mohammed was a Christian

lanrexlan:

[size=15pt]I just verified the hadith alexis posted,I mistook it for another hadith of the same narrator with the same context[/size],only what's different is where he highlighted that says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in mind about Him.The hadith I mistook for it is that of sahih Bukhari 9;7439,the place he highlighted says Allah will come to them in a shape other than the one they saw the first time.That's the only difference in both hadiths,my mistakes for not verifying in the first instance,accept my apology......Peace

First I was called a LIAR but now you are setting the record straight and blaming your READING COMPREHENSION. I applaud you mate, at least you were honest about it

maclatunji:

It will not be possible to commit shirk or any other sin on the day of judgement. I said it earlier, the rules would have changed.

Provide evidence mate. Where would the rules have changed in the Quran or Hadith.

alexis:

Islam and Jehovah witness have a lot in common - They believe Jesus is a mere man, that is why tintingz loves them so much

The jehova withness Jesus(as) doesnt have long hair
[img]http://2.bp..com/_QcjB84-75-0/TSAGK7iI9dI/AAAAAAAAHjI/JyX07O9iHbI/S1600-R/b.jpg[/img]

The catholic Jesus has long blonde hair like a german citizen


The christain image of God??
[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvULEXmxAgJCghiZ-aI8GG4ui2FDoxbEbB8dFrFa5INJJYWGl0wIGV7g[/img]
Subhanallah!! After Jesus(as) said no one(even the angels and him) have not seen God...and Moses(as) only saw the back of God.

Now in the whole pic which one is the real image of God(since Jesus is your God)? Since you dont get what lanrexlan is explaining to you and by the way where is the Holyghost image?

blenble:

there is alot u dnt knw abt Jehovah witness!

Why not answer His question? What do u say abt yourself? Are u three since u r made up of the spirit ,soul and body?

in human what is the role of a spirit and a soul kindly differ??

@ deSika

All I can say is: God bless you in aboundance. More knowledge, more power, more annointing in Jesus name.

Signed: cleanvessel

cleanvessel: @ deSika

All I can say is: God bless you in aboundance. More knowledge, more power, more annointing in Jesus name.

Signed: cleanvessel

[size=13pt]Amen[/size]. thanks