I understand your persuasions, and agree with some of the things you stated. However, what you infer that a person can see exactly what Paul is saying by "common sense" does not really handle this matter.

Even Paul acknowledged that when he prayed in the spirit, his understanding was unfritful - that is, "common sense" was unable to decode his prayer. However, he sought to both pray and sing in the spirit with a fruitful understanding (I Cor. 14:14-15). I am persuaded that this is the reason he also acknowledged that one speaking in tongues does not necessarily understand it; so such a one should "pray that he may interpret" (vs. 13).

There is no shortcut understanding to the gift of tongues; and I sense that God has a special place for tongues in the Church as for the apostle to have devoted a whole chapter expounding it. Some think that tongues are to be "downplayed" - but my question is, why would God inspire the apostle to devote such a lengthy chapter on something He wished to downplay? I'm rather persuaded that He actually meant for us do the opposite - pay good attention to it.

Tongues are as legitimate as other gifts of the Spirit - for "the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal" (I Cor. 12:7).

@bobbyaf
Posts Well said. Nothing more to add. Sadly there's a lot of ignorance & deception abt this simple bible truth - gleefully masterminded by satan. Christendom needs a purging by the Master Himself.
More time on our knees will help.
Stay blessed

@bobbyaf
Posts Well said. Nothing more to add. Sadly there's a lot of ignorance & deception abt this simple bible truth - gleefully masterminded by satan. Christendom needs a purging by the Master Himself.
More time on our knees will help.
Stay blessed

@Bobbyaf

Nice and truthful posts. These film actors in the churches need to snap out of their demonstrations. Tongues always ment recognizable languages so its kind of strange when people do what they do now. The gift served itz purpose back then.

Let me share an experience with you all.

Some time ago in one of our church services a lady from one of those tongue-speaking congregations decided that she would speak. At first she started out singing praises to which we had no objections, but when it reached the point where she started erupting church services, and the pastor's presentation, with her dancing rituals, she was asked to desist.

For awhile she did, but soon she started all over again, and was asked nicely to desist, but refused. Finally the deacons had to lift her physically from the building.

What happened after the church services was a shock to one and all present. That same lady who uttered some semblance of a language a few hours ago came back with a knife and was using the worst kinds of expletives possible.

My question to those christians who are rallying for something they do not fully understand, is this. How different are her utterances from those in other churches? I recall referring to a young lady who became a friend of mine, who told me that while she was in church she faked the gift. She would do the body jerks as everyone else in order to avoid the pressure from over-bearing members. When I had met her she was back in the world, and she expressed to me, how free she felt.

She is not the only one who has left their congregations. I have met scores of them.

My concern is that these charismatic denominations have carried this tongue-speaking notion too far. They have become highly fanatical, and have literally built a church around a passage of scripture that they have given their private interpretation to, in order to serve their own desires. What faster way to build a church than through working on the emotions of ignorant/uneducated people. This may sound a bit harsh, but it is the truth.

What you don't know, you cannot expound on. The gift of tongues and indeed every other gift of the Spirit (you name them) can be, and have been, faked. So, using one sad occurence of a fanatical display to negate and lump all other tongue-speaking Christians is even sadder. Just one sad incident does not negate the authentic. That scores of people leave one congregation for what they faked is exactly to the point - they were fakes - and one cannot use the fake to cross out the genuine. In just the same way, we all know that many dupes have tried to fake the Christian life - do you connect the dot?

Dare I say that there are many sad incidences even among non-tongue speakers. Would it make sense therefore to lump all other non-tongue speakers as fanatical or extremely legalistic?

Remember that in Acts 16:16-17 a false spirit encouraged the preaching of the Gospel. What does that say - that in just one incident, every missionary work be lumped up with false spirits?

The point is simply this: the gift of tongues is a genuine charismata as every other gift of the Spirit; otherwise none of them is a charisma at all. Thus, if God has given someone any genuine gift, I rejoice all the more; for though I'm well aware there are fakes, it does not stop the genuine from being used for God's glory.

@ Shahan

What you don't know, you cannot expound on.

Well, if my knowledge isn't based on God's words then I stand to be corrected.

The gift of tongues and indeed every other gift of the Spirit (you name them) can be, and have been, faked.

I have to agree with you that other gifts can be faked, just as how people are now faking the true gifts, but that wasn't the main point of my discussion. My emphasis is that, the gift of tongues as its expressed today by certain denominations, isn't the same as when it was first practised back then.

In Acts 2 there is a marked difference in its central motif, and how the gift was manifested. Let us see the point I am making.

In Acts 2 the visiting diasporic jews to Jerusalem all heard the disciples speak in their own language. What they heard spoken was a literal language that they could easily identify with. The gift itself was recognised in both the speaking and the hearing. The disciples recognised the gift as well as those who listened.

God in His mercy gave the gift to His disciples in order to facilitate the gospel commission being carried out. That was the central motif. The central motif was not for me to hear in the 20th century that unless I speak in tongues its an indication that I have not recieved the fulness of God's Spirit.

So, using one sad occurence of a fanatical display to negate and lump all other tongue-speaking Christians is even sadder. Just one sad incident does not negate the authentic. That scores of people leave one congregation for what they faked is exactly to the point - they were fakes - and one cannot use the fake to cross out the genuine. In just the same way, we all know that many dupes have tried to fake the Christian life - do you connect the dot?

One sad occurence you say? Thats a joke!

Well, if people weren't pressured into something that isn't biblical from day one, chances are they would still be in the church today. Not everyone is that easily hypnotised, and when they are not responding the way these congregations would like them to, they are told all sorts of rubbish, including resisting the Spirit.

Dare I say that there are many sad incidences even among non-tongue speakers. Would it make sense therefore to lump all other non-tongue speakers as fanatical or extremely legalistic?

That may be true, but the way that tongue speaking is manifested today its bordering on fanaticism. All you have to do is simply visit one of their tarry services. I recall once when a friend invited me to attend a special weekly service that emphasised the Anti-Christ. They had all these loud systems in place with loud-blasting music. After giving the main presentation a short clip was shown about the secret rapture showing a preacher facing a congregation.

Then all of a sudden I heard this explosion coming from the speaker boxes. It dawned on me afterward that it was one of the series of "Left behind" movies featuring the rapture. The noise that came from the speaker boxes somehow represented the disappearance of the church. What struck me next was even more frightening. The entire congregation went into a frenzy. People started screaming on top of their voices without any control. People hitting over stuff. The benches in which I was seated was being moved because of their movements.

All I am saying is that this typical church format is not what the gift of tongues is all about. That is why Paul made this statement:

I Cor. 12
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The answer to that rhetorical question is an unqualified no. No one can take the place of the Holy Spirit in assigning what gifts they think people should have. Its the Spirit of God who assigns the various gifts, not its members. No amount of emotional mind-influencing tactics will convert people.

Listen once again as to Paul's position on tongues as a gift:

1 Cor. 14
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

What have you gathered from these verses, especially verse 9? Verse 9 qualifies verse 2 that seems to baffle those who choose to isolate one verse in order to build an entire false theology around it. The gift of tongues according to Paul here is not some special prayer tool for the sole purpose of swaying in the Spirit. The gift when it is manifested should be easily understood, otherwise all one is doing is speaking in the air.

Remember that in Acts 16:16-17 a false spirit encouraged the preaching of the Gospel. What does that say - that in just one incident, every missionary work be lumped up with false spirits?

Thats a different topic for another time.

The point is simply this: the gift of tongues is a genuine charismata as every other gift of the Spirit; otherwise none of them is a charisma at all. Thus, if God has given someone any genuine gift, I rejoice all the more; for though I'm well aware there are fakes, it does not stop the genuine from being used for God's glory.

Which biblical reference can you give in support of any gift being a charismata?

@Bobbyaf,

In a friendly way, I'm not one to be caught up in long drawn arguments; but I'll leave you a few remarks in response to yours.

First, my lines didn't sound like you had no knowledge of God's word, and you entirely misread me if that's what you thought. "What you don't know, you cannot expound on" was pointing to experience rather than merely talk. I guarantee you this: the day you experience the supernatural in this aspect, all arguments will cease.

Many times, non-tongue speakers are up in arms against the gift of tongues; and what is amazing is that those who haven't experienced the gift seem to know so much academically and yet have no experience of the Word. I don't infer by this that you're merely only academic; what is of concern to me is that we (yes, you and I) cannot legislate over matters we haven't experienced for ourselves.

The genuine gifts of the Spirit have nothing to do with people being "hypnotised" or "pressurised", or whatever else anyone says - and I think it was rather off the mark to be jocular with smiles about this matter in claiming that people are told all sorts of rubbish. What we are after is not what people say; rather, we're focusing on what God graciously gives His children.

Now, it is very surprising to me that with such knowledge of the word, you haven't come across references in the Bible that speak of charismata? Please bro, check it out again and see if you haven't missed something.

God bless.

Only time will tell, My advice is let the Spirit of God lead into all truth and things will be just fine.

Bless.

Thank God for that - if we let the Spirit of God administer according to His will, what we do not understand now will become evident soon.

I was in a Nigerian church in Brent Cross, London early last year and the pastor was talking about "how to speak in tongues". As usual, my mind was not in his sermons. So prayer time came and dude says, "Begin to speak in tongues"- speaking in tongues is something i believe you dont learn nor begin to do it at will. It is inspired!
So people were busy talking jibberish as usual, calling their local headmaster's name and suddenly i hear the sound "Tunde, Tunde" from Pastor's mouth. I turned and was looking at pastor and i can swear that at least 5 people, including my sister who pursued me to church were starring at the dude.

Pastor, "tunde" na Yoruba person name and no be speaking in tongues, which one be ur own. Later after the tongue wagging and barking, dude was like God told him to give a message to Tunde ( yeah right!).

Summary- 99% of people speaking in tongues is fake. dont fool urselves people. Peace

How did you come to that figure of 99% of fake tongue speakers? Just one church service in one locality in Brent Cross on only one day from only one pastor. . . and quickly you arrive at 99% of all tongue speakers

Or did you mean 99% of the people in that church you attended?

In anycase, at least you warmed my heart to know that tongues are inspired, and not taught or learned. Blessings.

Danmasani,

Ol'boy I don die for laff  Tunde indeed!.

BTW,
I would like to see any experiment where the tapes of Tongue Speaking pastors are played to inspired members and see what kind of interpretations they can come up with.

@MrMayor

flappingwhataloadofabsolutenonsencerhubarbzebrapantspepsicolasprite7upandapintoflagerwithacherryinit.
blablablabeefjerkyandsomesouthafricanbiltongwilldonicelysplatplatplatplat kerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrplunkbigmac,

Now will you believe in tongues?

You guys are killing me, I am in stitches.

i speak in tongues and i gats no regrets WATso EVER

@lioness,

Can you interpret the "Tongues" you speaker if its replayed to you;or can you interpret when you hear someone speaking in tongues?

if the spirit be one ,,, sure

people that are afraid of speaking in tongues are the ones that criticizes it. For those that speak in tongues, they find it edifying, it lifts you up when you are down. it refires you as a christian, it keeps you re-focused, it emboldens you to face challenges squarely, when you pray in tongues devils see you and run to hide cos they see fire. this is something every christian should desire or your christianity would be cold and draggy. you must be hot not just a church goer and a philanthropist. all these are good but your christianity should exceed that, bible says God will spue you out of his mouth if you are nither hot nor cold. I know people desire to speak in tongues but they are afraid they might say the wrong words at the end criticize those who are bold enough to speak. It is a basic ingredent in christianity, infact, its an indication of the new creation. _{(for those who genuinely do)}

A christian that speaks in tongues is never on the same level with the one that doesnt. carry out a survey, i dare u

lysaa:

A christian that speaks in tongues is never on the same level with the one that doesnt. carry out a survey, i dare u

I won't take you up on your dare to carry out a survey, but I will say this, a Christian that speaks in tongues is in no way better than one who does not. If we can be agreed on one thing, it is this, speaking in tongues (known or unknown) is a gift and the Holy Spirit distributes gifts severally as He wills.

There is no call for smugness or discrimination due to gift differentiation amongst believers. It's the cause of a lot of angst amongst brethren.

No shakin' for real

God bless

i didnt say better mind u, i said on the same level. And i know that for sure, there are things a christian that prays in tongue can do that the other can't, its an obvious fact. take 2 christians out to pray for a sick person , observe their boldnessand convictions, i tell u by the time the one that can pray in tongues finishes rattling in tongues, he becomes high and speaks authoritatively. The spirit makes the difference . i'll say again, i didn't say tongue speaking christians are better than the ones that can't speak based on the ground that "to whom much is given much is expected". u can't say a 200L student is better than a 100L student but they can be assessed by what they have learnt. but the 100L one needs to progress into 200L. thats my point, we need to grow and not practise churchianity but real rugged and raw christianity.

lysaa:

i didnt say better mind u, i said on the same level. And i know that for sure, there are things a christian that prays in tongue can do that the other can't, its an obvious fact. take 2 christians out to pray for a sick person , observe their boldnessand convictions, i tell u by the time the one that can pray in tongues finishes rattling in tongues, he becomes high and speaks authoritatively. The spirit makes the difference . i'll say again, i didn't say tongue speaking christians are better than the ones that can't speak based on the ground that "to whom much is given much is expected". u can't say a 200L student is better than a 100L student but they can be assessed by what they have learnt. but the 100L one needs to progress into 200L. thats my point, we need to grow and not practise churchianity but real rugged and raw christianity.

My sister, I'm still not sure we are agreed. Are you saying that tongue speaking is an indicator of "level?". So all other things being equal, tongue speaking is some sort of tie-breaker?

Those at Corinth "came behind" in no gift" but as Christians go they were "yet carnal". The Christian walk is about maturity, devotion and a gaze focused upward where Christ is sat at the right hand of God.

As Christians we can of ourselves do nothing. Whatever we have, we have recieved, so we should not boast as if we did not. This kind of thinking is the very thing that engenders a spiritual caste system and veneration of men.

God bless

There is "speaking in Tongue", which comes naturally but it has been completely basterdised by the Academic pastor and pastor mrs.

Bless you o jare.

When you speak in tongues, do you understand what you are saying

By Alexos

When you speak in tongues, do you understand what you are saying

Good question! In 1 Corinthians 14 Paul addressed the same question. In other words, why should a person not understand when they speak in tongues? I find that notion of it not being a problem if one doesn't understand a problem.

In fact nowhere in scripture does it argue a case for it. So those people who use 1 Cor. 14:2 to support such a case are either being dis-ingenious, or are being ignorant.

i speak in tongues and i love it

mhm, i feel u

I'm surprised no one here who claims to speak in tongues did not give an actual personal account of their experience.

I speak in unknown tongues. This is my testimony. 

When I first received Jesus, I remember walking into the church and hearing these people babbling gibberish like they were going mad. I thought I must have taken a wrong turn into a mental institution.

I'm sure this is why the scripture says it should not be done in the assembly, and if it is it should be done in order, and interpreted for edification.

Anyway, the Holy Spirit in his faithfullnes still showed up.  And I fell at the feet of Jesus.  No regrets to this day. 

The pastor, in another service ,laid hands on me to receive the infilling of the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

I had been very skeptical, especially since I still had the initial impression of lunatics foaming at the mouth and spitting out some kind of bush language in my mind. I certainly didn't want to be like them. 

Everyone else in the line up began speaking in tongues immediately, but I did not! 

And for sure I was not going to fake it!

So eventually he stopped praying for me and told me when God was ready I will receive the gift.

I was so hurt and confused.  Wondering if it was my lack of faith.  But still I prayed and told God that if this speaking in tongues thing was for real and it was of him, then I wanted it.  fullstop.  I left it up to him to prove.

Weeks passed by, nothing. 

Then one night after praying and getting into my bed, feeling especially concerned about this "tongues" thing, something amazing happened.

Lying in my own bed,  I suddenly felt  a burning sensation at the sole of my feet! It was like my feet were on fire!

The heat moved slowly upwards from my feet through the rest of my body, and when it reached my stomach into my chest I felt like something was coming up that wanted to get out! It was like these words pushed themselves out of my mouth from deep inside of me!

It was like filling a cup, it started from the bottom and then overflowed at the brim!   

It's the only way I can inadequately explain it. Sounds foolish I know, but it's true.

It was not coming from my head at all.  At first I was confused and stopped to actually think about what I was saying, and then from my head I tried to do it again.  But when I used my head nothing came out.  Only when I simply focussed on the spirit and just open my mouth did these strange words form into something I had never heard or learned before.

This is how God proved to me personally, that the gift of the infilling of the spirit with the evidence of speaking in an unknown tongue is REAL, and is for the present day church, just as he did on the day of Pentecost.

I am certain that this infilling has protected me from many demons, especially since I had been involved in Wicca and in my curiousity had opened many spiritual doors. 

See my dreams  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-39632.0.html

@GL, I love your work sister keep it up. To the house I will talk abou this later, meanwhile go to my post Religion and Science.

what i can understand from this discussion is that some people think s its fun to just say anything they want.
plz for GOD sake stop it and lets talk about something else.wether is REAL or FAKE i dont think you can fight for GOD let HIM fight HIS fight.

it better not to draw GOD's judgement on yourself.

GOD is GOD, nobody knows why.


P L E A S E STOP THIS MADNESS.

im a xtian and i believe in speaking in tongues but i must confess i do not understand exactly how its supposed to work, the Bible implied in #acts that the early xtian where speaking in other tongues i.e other languages, not random gibberish. how can u reconcile tht with what is witnessed in most pentecostals these days, i'm not sure,,,,,