peteregwu:

SO CHUKWUDI, YOU SELF DON DEY SPEAK GREEK TO TURN THE TRUTH INTO LIES. WHEN DID YOU LEARN HOW TO SPEAK GREEK. SO MAKE WE DEY CALL YOU GREECIAN NOW?

Why don't you do a little research and stop embarrassing yourself.

chukwudi44: THE SAMEBTHING REPEATED HERE. THE HIBLE IS THE INTERPRETER OF ITSELF. MARY IS THE MOTHER OF JAMES AND JOSES. THIS IS THE SAME MOTHER OF JESUS. THIS A PROVE THAT MARY ALSO IS A CREATURE AMD A MERE MORTAL THAT DO NOT DESERVE TO HE WORSHIPPED.

This is simply ridiculous!! The mother of James and Joses suddenly becomes the mother of Jesus!! This would be the 8th wonder of the world.

Now let us examine that narrative three gospel writers Mattew,Mark and John narrated this same event.



Matthew 27:56 KJV
"Among which was Mary
Magdalene, and Mary the
mother of James and Joses,
and the mother of Zebedee's
children."

Mark 15:40

"Some women were there looking on from a distance.Among them were Mary magdalene,Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses and Salome

John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene".

Even the dumbest student would see from this three narratives that Mary the mother of James and Joses is the same as Mary thhe wife of cleopas the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus through whom Jesus and James are related.

HMMM...CALL ME WHATEVER U LIKE. NOW U SAID THE MOTHER OF JAMES AND JOSES IS THE WIFE OF CLEOPHAS. WHERE DID U GET THAT FROM...THE BIBLE NEVER SAID DAT. PLS SEARCH WELL AND STOP QUOTING TO SUIT YR MISCONSTRUED TEACHING. U ARE WRONG FRIEND. READ BELOW;


Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

ANOTHER UNDENIABLE PROVE THAT JESUS HAD BROTHERS AND SISTERS. AND THAT MARY IS THEIR MOTHER AND NOT THE WIFE OF CLEOPHAS. NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE TRUTH, NOT EVEN SATAN.

^^^^ good job bro, hopefully some shall dispose the images and come to Christ through the thread.

shdemidemi: ^^^^ good job bro, hopefully some shall dispose the images and come to Christ through the thread.

Good prayer, and i say amen to that..

peteregwu:

HMMM...CALL ME WHATEVER U LIKE. NOW U SAID THE MOTHER OF JAMES AND JOSES IS THE WIFE OF CLEOPHAS. WHERE DID U GET THAT FROM...THE BIBLE NEVER SAID DAT. PLS SEARCH WELL AND STOP QUOTING TO SUIT YR MISCONSTRUED TEACHING. U ARE WRONG FRIEND. READ BELOW;


Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

ANOTHER UNDENIABLE PROVE THAT JESUS HAD BROTHERS AND SISTERS. AND THAT MARY IS THEIR MOTHER AND NOT THE WIFE OF CLEOPHAS. NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE TRUTH, NOT EVEN SATAN.

The hollowness of your point is left for all to see.The cousin of Jesus James is clearly seen by the juxtaposing of the three gospel narratives.personally I don't care what you believe or want to believe am only posting because of the ignarant ones who may be led astray.

You have already made up your mind because of your hatred for the RCC even in the face of incontrovertible evidence you are still blabbing!!

shdemidemi: ^^^^ good job bro, hopefully some shall dispose the images and come to Christ through the thread.

We are on the 14th thread and you are yet to convince even a donkey!! I really feel for you.

Go and ask your brother frosbel.After more than 400 threads and 4000 posts against the RCC he is yet to convert even an ant.His level of frustration after all this years are driving him mad.You think the RCC is like all this mushroom and apron wearing churches whoose members lack conviction of their faith.

chukwudi44:

We are on the 14th thread and you are yet to convince even a donkey!! I really feel for you.

Go and ask your brother frosbel.After more than 400 threads and 4000 posts against the RCC he is yet to convert even an ant.His level of frustration after all this years are driving him mad.You think the RCC is like all this mushroom and apron wearing churches whoose members lack conviction of their faith.

Is it my job to convert anyone?

My job as an an ambassador of Christ is to share the gospel bro, its left for God to convict people''s mind. I believe in the doctrine of election, therefore , it does not matter how convincing the gospel is, some would still choose the son of perdition.

Boomark: Abraham's seed. Sarah is his wife. They are husband and wife. Sarah is the woman not Mary.

Those who think otherwise should prove it otherwise from the scripture. Waiting...

This goes to show that they have been believing a lie for more than 1000 years.

I also debunked their claim that Mary is ark of the covenant. Another lie of more than 1256 years 3 months.

Smh!!!

chukwudi44:

We are on the 14th thread and you are yet to convince even a donkey!! I really feel for you.

Go and ask your brother frosbel.After more than 400 threads and 4000 posts against the RCC he is yet to convert even an ant.His level of frustration after all this years are driving him mad.You think the RCC is like all this mushroom and apron wearing churches whoose members lack conviction of their faith.

delusion unstoppable. That is what it is.

shdemidemi: James that wrote the book of James is Jesus' step brother, Stop defending what is not.

How did you come about this conclusion.

Sal C: How did you come about this conclusion.

I responded to the question already bro.

Those who are arguing if Jesus had other brothers or not should consider the following Bible portion, hopefully it will give us an insight into our quest.

Matt13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren James and Joses and Simon and Judas?
The above verse shows that the four people mentioned are Jesus' brethren or say brother.

Another verse of the bible to look at is..

Gal1:19 But other of the apostles saw I non, save James the Lord's brother.

This shows that James the Lord's brother is also an apostle of Jesus Christ.

Now a quick glance at the list of the 12 apostles to confirm who is actually the Lord's brother.

Mark3:16-19 And Simon he surnamed Peter.

17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James, and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is The sons of thunder.

18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Mathew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite.

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Here we can easily observe that there are two apostles named James. One is the son of Zebedee and the other the son of Alphaeus, surprisingly non is mentioned as the Lord's brother.

Now the question is, Which apostle James is the Lord's brother and how?

shdemidemi:

So, Paul made a mistake calling him the Lord's brother?

No you made the mistake of interpreting that to mean blood brother.

Now let's consider this Bible verse;
Gen 29:15 And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother, shouldest thou therefore serve me for nought? Tell me what shall thy wages be?KJV

Can you confidently say that Jacob is Laban's blood brother because the word brother appeared here.

We all know that Laban is Jacob's uncle.

The greek word Adelphos which is here translated brother, can also be cousin as in the case of Jacob and Laban or kinsmen or relatives.

peteregwu:

HMMM...CALL ME WHATEVER U LIKE. NOW U SAID THE MOTHER OF JAMES AND JOSES IS THE WIFE OF CLEOPHAS. WHERE DID U GET THAT FROM...THE BIBLE NEVER SAID DAT. PLS SEARCH WELL AND STOP QUOTING TO SUIT YR MISCONSTRUED TEACHING. U ARE WRONG FRIEND. READ BELOW;


Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

ANOTHER UNDENIABLE PROVE THAT JESUS HAD BROTHERS AND SISTERS. AND THAT MARY IS THEIR MOTHER AND NOT THE WIFE OF CLEOPHAS. NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE TRUTH, NOT EVEN SATAN.

It really does not matter what you choose to cling unto, wether a straw or cobweb. The truth is tha the bible made it clear that mary the mother of james and joses is "the other mary", as I have shown earlier. I do not know why we prefer ignorance to learning. Why do we behave as if english was the language of scripture. Even in aramaic spoken by most of the evangelists, (aha) is used for close relations. But my worry here is that all the evangelist call the blessed virgin mary " Mother of Jesus" each time they mentioned her, why do you think they will confuse the reader with mother of james and joses? They said following from afar, but we know that mary the mother of Jesus was there at the foot of the cross. Her relative mary wife of cleophas was mentioned by John, identifying that the children will be relatives of christ. (aha) in aramaic could be used for them. You may read again the opening line of jude's letter.

[/quote]
Now the question is, Which apostle James is the Lord's brother and how?[quote]

James the just was not actually one of the twelve.Paul actually used that term apostles to describe himself,James,Barnabas and some few others but they were not really part of the twelve.

James the just was actually very influential in the first century christainaity,Himself Paul and Peter were the most influential christians that lived in the first century.He was eventually killed in AD 62 by the jewish high priest.

Sal C: Those who are arguing if Jesus had other brothers or not should consider the following Bible portion, hopefully it will give us an insight into our quest.

Matt13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren James and Joses and Simon and Judas?
The above verse shows that the four people mentioned are Jesus' brethren or say brother.

Another verse of the bible to look at is..

Gal1:19 But other of the apostles saw I non, save James the Lord's brother.

This shows that James the Lord's brother is also an apostle of Jesus Christ.

Now a quick glance at the list of the 12 apostles to confirm who is actually the Lord's brother.

Mark3:16-19 And Simon he surnamed Peter.

17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James, and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is The sons of thunder.

18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Mathew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite.

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Here we can easily observe that there are two apostles named James. One is the son of Zebedee and the other the son of Alphaeus, surprisingly non is mentioned as the Lord's brother.

Now the question is, Which apostle James is the Lord's brother and how?

Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Boomark:
Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

are you sure you have been following this thread? Kindly read up posts contained in the last two pages as i don have time repeating myself again

^of course. See more proof here.

Matthew 1:25
New International Version (©2011)
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. AndJoseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version (©2001)
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

You must not believe everything in the bible cos you were coached not to believe the truth.

What we are doing is for those that might not know before they enter. Those who are there already, man cannot help. I have proffered solution and a way out for them. Dissociate yourselves from all man made idols and God may be merciful.

Boomark:
Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

This is still thesame as Matt13:55, and it doesn't answer my question.

Boomark: ^of course. See more proof here.

Matthew 1:25
New International Version (©2011)
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. AndJoseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version (©2001)
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

You must not believe everything in the bible cos you were coached not to believe the truth.

What we are doing is for those that might not know before they enter. Those who are there already, man cannot help. I have proffered solution and a way out for them. Dissociate yourselves from all man made idols and God may be merciful.

!


Do compare with this and see the use of until

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, [b]until[b] I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Does it mean Jesus will cease to be at the Father's right hand after the enemies are made His footstool?


Also look at:

Genesis 8:7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, [b]until[b] the waters were dried up from off the earth.

The raven never came back, which led to the sending of the dove in verse 8.

Syncan:
!


Do compare with this and see the use of until

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, [b]until[b] I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Does it mean Jesus will cease to be at the Father's right hand after the enemies are made His footstool?


Also look at:

Genesis 8:7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, [b]until[b] the waters were dried up from off the earth.

The raven never came back, which led to the sending of the dove in verse 8.

What on earth is this! Must you twist and use semantics to make a lie become true.

chukwudi44:
Now the question is, Which apostle James is the Lord's brother and how?


James the just was not actually one of the twelve.Paul actually used that term apostles to describe himself,James,Barnabas and some few others but they were not really part of the twelve.

James the just was actually very influential in the first century christainaity,Himself Paul and Peter were the most influential christians that lived in the first century.He was eventually killed in AD 62 by the jewish high priest.

I tried reading about James the just on net, most scholars seem to agree to him being the same as the son of Alphaeus. Though what I was trying to point out is that he is not the son of Mary the mother of Jesus. Thanks for the insight.

shdemidemi:

What on earth is this! Must you twist and use semantics to make a lie become true.

The man showed you Bible passages showing the manner in which "until" was used...

And he asked a simple question in his post.

Are you capable of answering it with honesty and clarity?

I think not...

shdemidemi:

What on earth is this! Must you twist and use semantics to make a lie become true.

Why is it your duty to bias the mind of people against my post. Please which of the two passages I quoted did you call semantics? Or was it not "until" that was used in both passages?

[b]One popular prayer in Mary’s honor is the Hail Holy Queen, which is known in Latin as the Salve Regina. It is traditionally included as part of praying the rosary.

For Catholics who are reading this, please try to overcome your familiarity with this text and really look at the words. Doesn’t this sound like worship?

“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.”

CATHOLIC DOCTRINES ABOUT MARY COMPARED WITH WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS

My sources for this section are the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which has numbered paragraphs. For the sake of simplicity and brevity, I will just say Catechism plus the number of the paragraph(s). For example, “Catechism 411, 493” means “Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs numbered 411 and 493."

For each doctrinal category, I will indicate the Catholic doctrine, followed by the appropriate references from the Catechism. I will follow this with quotations from the Bible which relate to the doctrine. For the sake of clarity, I will emphasize some portions of Biblical quotations by using boldface type. The last book in the Bible is called “The Book of Revelation” in Protestant Bibles and “The Apocalypse” in Catholic Bibles. I will refer to it as “Revelation."

IMMACULATE CONCEPTION -- Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception. (Catechism 490-492).

In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Mary knew that she needed a savior.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first introduced by a heretic (a man whose teachings were officially declared to be contrary to Church doctrine). For centuries this doctrine was unanimously rejected by popes, Fathers and theologians of the Catholic Church. [13]

ALL HOLY - Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life. (Catechism 411, 493)

Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Revelation 15:4 says, “Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For thou only art holy." Romans 3:10 says, “There is none righteous, no, not one."
Jesus is the only person who is referred to in Scripture as sinless. Hebrews 4:15 says, “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 1 Peter 2:22 says, "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

In contrast, Mary said that God is her Savior. (Luke 1:47) If God was her Savior, then Mary was not sinless. Sinless people do not need a Savior.
In the Book of Revelation, when they were searching for someone who was worthy to break the seals and open the scroll, the only person who was found to be worthy was Jesus. Nobody else in Heaven or on earth (including Mary) was worthy to open the scroll or even look inside it. (Revelation 5:1-5)

PERPETUAL VIRGINITY - Mary was a virgin before, during and after the birth of Christ. (Catechism 496-511)

Matthew 1:24-25 says, “Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” “Till” (until) means that after that point, Joseph did “know” (have sexual relations with) Mary. (See Genesis 4:1 where Adam “knew” Eve and she conceived and had a son.)
Jesus had brothers and sisters. The Bible even tells us their names. Matthew 13:54-56 says,

“And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hatch this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us?”
Other Scripture verses which specifically refer to Jesus’ brothers are: Matthew 12:46; John 2:12; John 7:3; Acts 1:14; and Galatians 1:19.

Catholics are taught that “brothers” and “sisters” were general terms that really could refer to any kind of kinsman, including cousins. This is true in the Hebrew language. However, the New Testament is written in Greek, which is an extremely precise language. It makes a clear distinction between the words used to describe family relationships. There is a Greek word which refers to people who are relatives but not of the immediate family, such as aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces and cousins. There are other Greek words which refer specifically to a person’s brother or sister within a family. [14]

MOTHER OF GOD - Because she is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God. (Catechism 963, 971, 2677).

The Incarnation means that Jesus was both fully God and fully man. Mary was only the mother of Jesus as man, and not the mother of Jesus as God. According to the Bible, the world was created through Jesus. This was long before Mary was born. Hebrews 1:1-2 says,

“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."
Colossians 1:16-17 says,

“For by him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things [including Mary] were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things [including Mary] , and by him all things consist."
John 8:58 says, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.” Jesus existed before Abraham was born. That means that He also existed before Mary was born. In John 17:5, Jesus says, “And now O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” So Jesus existed even before the world began. Jesus came first - not Mary.

MOTHER OF THE CHURCH - Mary is the Mother of the Church. (Catechism 963, 975).

Acts 1:13-14 gives a picture of a group of people praying together. Mary is mentioned as one of them, but nothing indicates any special prominence.

“And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Phillip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.”
Mary was probably in the Upper Room when the tongues of fire fell upon the 120 disciples. However, she is never mentioned again in the Book of Acts, which is our only historical record of how the Church was born. She is also not specifically identified in the epistles. Paul did send greetings to “Mary”, but that was a common name. (In the Gospels and in the Book of Acts, she is referred to as “Mary the mother of Jesus” to distinguish her from other women named Mary.)

It is notable that John, who took Mary into his home after Jesus was crucified, does not mention her in his epistles, and he only mentions her on two occasions in his Gospel (the wedding at Cana and the crucifixion of Jesus). John mentions Mary Magdalene more than he mentions Jesus' mother.

ASSUMPTION - At the end of her life, Mary was taken up (“assumed”) body and soul into Heaven. (Catechism 966, 974)

There is no biblical reference to the assumption of Mary. The Gospel of John was written around 90 A.D., which is more than 100 years after Mary was born. (Surely Mary was more than ten years old when Jesus was conceived.) If Mary had been supernaturally assumed into Heaven, wouldn’t John (the disciple that Mary lived with) have mentioned it? When Enoch and Elijah were taken up to Heaven, the Bible recorded it. With Elijah it was recorded in some detail. (See Genesis 6:24 and 2 Kings 2:1‑18.)

The Assumption of Mary was officially declared to be a dogma of the Roman Catholic faith in 1950. This means that every Roman Catholic is required to believe this doctrine without questioning it. However, as we will see, the teaching of the Assumption originated with heretical writings which were officially condemned by the early Church.

In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation. Here we have “infallible” popes declaring something to be a heresy. Then in 1950, Pope Pius XII, another “infallible” pope, declared it to be official Roman Catholic doctrine. [15]

CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions. (Catechism 968-970, 2677)

There is only one mediator and that is Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 says, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” Hebrews 7:25 says,Wherefore he [Jesus] is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.” Ephesians 3:12 says, “In whom [Jesus} we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.”
If Jesus is constantly interceding for us and He is able to save us “to the uttermost,” (utterly, completely) then He doesn’t need Mary’s help. If we can approach God with “boldness” and “confidence” because of our faith in Jesus, then we don't need Mary’s help either.

QUEEN OF HEAVEN - God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and earth. (Catechism 966) She is to be praised with special devotion. (Catechism 971, 2675)

Psalm 148:13 says, “Let them praise the name of the Lord: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.” This makes it quite clear that only God’s name (not Mary’s) is to be exalted. (In Catholic Bibles the numbering of the chapters and verses of some of the Psalms is slightly different.)
When people tried to give Mary special honor and pre-eminence because she was His mother, Jesus corrected them.

“And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke 11:27-28)
In chapters four and five of the Book of Revelation, we are given a quite detailed picture of Heaven. God is seated on the throne, surrounded by 24 elders and four living creatures. The Lamb (Jesus) is standing in the center of the throne. Thousands upon thousands of angels circle the throne, singing God's praises. And Mary is not in the picture at all.[/b]

Syncan:
!


Do compare with this and see the use of until

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until[b] I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Does it mean Jesus will cease to be at the Father's right hand after the enemies are made His footstool?


Also look at:

Genesis 8:7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, [b]until[b] the waters were dried up from off the earth.

[b]The raven never came back, which led to the sending of the dove in verse 8.

Did you not see that it goes "to" and "fro"(going and returning). That was even when the water have not yet dried up. Did it drown? Smh This has canceled you reason.

concerning Heb1:13 read my favourite, 1Cor 15:28. God will be all in all. For now He has a representative who mediate between Him and men, who ask for the forgiveness our sins. By that time all these thing will no longer be there cos there will be no sin etc. This has canceled your reason cos you never proved that he will continue to sit at His right hand after his enemies have been defeated.

It still stands that Joseph had intercourse with Mary after the birth of Jesus.

italo:

The man showed you Bible passages showing the manner in which "until" was used...

And he asked a simple question in his post.

Are you capable of answering it with honesty and clarity?

I think not...

that twist can bamboozle an honest man. He did not fully understand the passages he quoted.

She was a virgin untill they had intercourse after the birth of Jesus. You can't twist it.

Boomark:

Did you not see that it goes "to" and "fro"(going and returning). That was even when the water have not yet dried up. Did it drown? Smh This has canceled you reason.

concerning Heb1:13 read my favourite, 1Cor 15:28. God will be all in all. For now He has a representative who mediate between Him and men, who ask for the forgiveness our sins. By that time all these thing will no longer be there cos there will be no sin etc. This has canceled your reason cos you never proved that he will continue to sit at His right hand after his enemies have been defeated.

It still stands that Joseph had intercourse with Mary after the birth of Jesus.

You talk as if you were there when the marriage was consumated!! Do you have any prove to that?

chukwudi44:

You talk as if you were there when the marriage was consumated!! Do you have any prove to that?

And do you have any proof that it did not? Oh I forgot that you just might answer by refering to your so called church fathers and the other books which were not included in the bible.

Dude the proof is right there in your bible! Ask he Holy spirit to reveal the truth to you. That is why Christ gave us the Holy spirit so we can be led into all truth.

chukwudi44:

You talk as if you were there when the marriage was consumated!! Do you have any prove to that?

Look at the geneology in Mathew 1:1-16 and also verse 20. You may not believe it but the bible at a point always refered to your blessed virgin mary as either the other mary or as mary the mother of james, joses and simon.

4everGod:

And do you have any proof that it did not? Oh I forgot that you just might answer by refering to your so called church fathers and the other books which were not included in the bible.

Dude the proof is right there in your bible! Ask he Holy spirit to reveal the truth to you. That is why Christ gave us the Holy spirit so we can be led into all truth.

So the holy spirit is now the exclusive preserve of protestants abi? U never cease to amaze me.

4everGod:

Look at the geneology in Mathew 1:1-16 and also verse 20. You may not believe it but the bible at a point always refered to your blessed virgin mary as either the other mary or as mary the mother of james, joses and simon.

I have just looked @ it and did not see anything like that.Perhaps you might help me with that.

Matthew 1:1-20

King James Version (KJV)

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.