Maybe boomark or one of the other anti-Catholics will see it. They have a way of seeing what is not there...and not seeing what is there.

chukwudi44:

You talk as if you were there when the marriage was consumated!! Do you have any prove to that?

I believe the word inspired by the Holyspirit. if you don't, its not my fault. This is the English meaning, if that is the problem.

Main Entry: until
Function:conjunction
Date: 14th century
:up to the time that:up to such time as
<play continued until it got dark>
<never able to relax until he took up fishing>
<ran until she was breathless>

preposition&conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
[as preposition]:
the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents
he held the office until his death
[as conjunction]:
you don’t know what you can achieve until you try

Up to the time of his birth, they never had intercourse but they(Mary and Joseph) did it after his birth. God did not prevent them from enjoying their marriage.

It still stands as truth.

italo: Maybe boomark or one of the other anti-Catholics will see it. They have a way of seeing what is not there...and not seeing what is there.

See what? Syncan failed with his proves. Do you have any other one? What is written is very clear.

chukwudi44:

I have just looked @ it and did not see anything like that.Perhaps you might help me with that.

Matthew 1:1-20

King James Version (KJV)

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

So you did not see in verse 16 " AND JAC0B BEGAT JOSEPH THE HUSBAND OF MARY" did it say the behroted of mary or the fiance of mary? The word use there is HUSBAND which shows tha Joseph wifed her. Now unless she was barren or Joseph was impotent then they did not have other kids but because the bible said she had Jesus this makes mary fruitful. So was Joseph impotent? I laugh in Hebrew

4everGod:

So you did not see in verse 16 " AND JAC0B BEGAT JOSEPH THE HUSBAND OF MARY" did it say the behroted of mary or the fiance of mary? The word use there is HUSBAND which shows tha Joseph wifed her. Now unless she was barren or Joseph was impotent then they did not have other kids but because the bible said she had Jesus this makes mary fruitful. So was Joseph impotent? I laugh in Hebrew

Has anyone ever contested the fact that Mary was married to Joseph.The consumation or not of the marriage is another thing but how on earth does that phrase "Joseph husband of mary" simply translate to mary been the mother of James and Joses? Did you study logic @ all in school? Your premises are just so baseless and has notting to do with the conclusion.You never cease to amaze me.

Boomark:

I believe the word inspired by the Holyspirit. if you don't, its not my fault. This is the English meaning, if that is the problem.

Main Entry: until
Function:conjunction
Date: 14th century
:up to the time that:up to such time as
<play continued until it got dark>
<never able to relax until he took up fishing>
<ran until she was breathless>

preposition&conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
[as preposition]:
the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents
he held the office until his death
[as conjunction]:
you don’t know what you can achieve until you try

Up to the time of his birth, they never had intercourse but they(Mary and Joseph) did it after his birth. God did not prevent them from enjoying their marriage.

It still stands as truth.

Boomark:

I believe the word inspired by the Holyspirit. if you don't, its not my fault. This is the English meaning, if that is the problem.

Main Entry: until
Function:conjunction
Date: 14th century
:up to the time that:up to such time as
<play continued until it got dark>
<never able to relax until he took up fishing>
<ran until she was breathless>

preposition&conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
[as preposition]:
the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents
he held the office until his death
[as conjunction]:
you don’t know what you can achieve until you try

Up to the time of his birth, they never had intercourse but they(Mary and Joseph) did it after his birth. God did not prevent them from enjoying their marriage.

It still stands as truth.

Bros leave that matter for mathias.You are merely speculating.The fact of the matter is that the bible did not tell us whether that marriage was consumated or not.

chukwudi44:

We are on the 14th thread and you are yet to convince even a donkey!! I really feel for you.

Go and ask your brother frosbel.After more than 400 threads and 4000 posts against the RCC he is yet to convert even an ant.His level of frustration after all this years are driving him mad.You think the RCC is like all this mushroom and apron wearing churches whoose members lack conviction of their faith.

The Holy Spirit is d only one dat convert anyone and not man.

Boomark:

Something that is not real. Shadow of something: something that is not the real thing.

I hope you will not sing love songs to me like syncan as we proceed?

a shadow is the imitation of a particular reality. It is not the real thing but it gives us an a replica of the reality. The old is a shadow of the new.
Can you now figure it out?

Boomark:

I believe demi saw it and he is also waiting for you people to say the truth of the matter.

So for now, this is the truth. Sarah is the woman not Mary.

hehehe, so sarah is the young woman prophesied in genesis, isaiah, jeremiah, to bring forth the son of God?
You disappoint me.

chukwudi44:

Bros leave that matter for mathias.You are merely speculating.The fact of the matter is that the bible did not tell us whether that marriage was consumated or not.

And your church went about spreading false belief that she remained a virgin. Where did they get that one? That was why Mathias told me that you have been believing a lie.

Do you want the bible to explain HOW their marriage was consumated before you believe they did what God prepared for the enjoyment of husband and wife?

Una dey tight corner, no escape.

Ubenedictus: a shadow is the imitation of a particular reality. It is not the real thing but it gives us an a replica of the reality. The old is a shadow of the new.
Can you now figure it out?

So how is this different from what i wrote above or is it because i used the word "something"...that is not the real thing.

Go for the real thing, that is where we are now not the shadow. The real thing came in its fullness(Christ fulfilment of the old) not half half or with some missing part that you can patch with the shadows.

Ubenedictus: hehehe, so sarah is the young woman prophesied in genesis, isaiah, jeremiah, to bring forth the son of God?
You disappoint me.

Your brothers could not confidently correct me. They don't like things that comes with questions.

The woman in Rev 12 is what i desire to know from you. Have you been able to know who she is?

Have you read Gal 4:21-31? It solved the issue of the woman in Genesis and Rev.

peteregwu:


The Holy Spirit is d only one dat convert anyone and not man.

This only goes to proove that your rantings does not have the support of the holy spirit and that is responsible for your catastrophic failure to convert any one

Boomark:

And your church went about spreading false belief that she remained a virgin. Where did they get that one? That was why Mathias told me that you have been believing a lie.

Do you want the bible to explain HOW their marriage was consumated before you believe they did what God prepared for the enjoyment of husband and wife?

Una dey tight corner, no escape.

dont mind them.

NOW THE CATHOLIC CLAIM MARY REMAINED VIRGIN AFTER THE BIRTH OF JESUS. SO, TO THEM MARY HAD NO OTHER CHILDREN.

WHAT HAPPENED TO JOSEPH...DOES IT MEAN THAT JOSEPH TOO REMAINED VIRGIN AN DID NOT HAVE CHILDREN? BODY NO BE FIREWOOD. HMMM....CHEAP LIES!

peteregwu: NOW THE CATHOLIC CLAIM MARY REMAINED VIRGIN AFTER THE BIRTH OF JESUS. SO, TO THEM MARY HAD NO OTHER CHILDREN.

WHAT HAPPENED TO JOSEPH...DOES IT MEAN THAT JOSEPH TOO REMAINED VIRGIN AN DID NOT HAVE CHILDREN? BODY NO BE FIREWOOD. HMMM....CHEAP LIES!

they should try and understand the bible better.....all these are just mere speculations. Jesus said no one comes to the father except through him....i think thats self expanatory

Boomark:

And your church went about spreading false belief that she remained a virgin. Where did they get that one? That was why Mathias told me that you have been believing a lie.

Do you want the bible to explain HOW their marriage was consumated before you believe they did what God prepared for the enjoyment of husband and wife?

Una dey tight corner, no escape.

I have already told you we do not practise bible alone doctrine of martin luther.We existed before the bible and had the privilege of hearing from some of the people who witnessed this events.

chukwudi44:

I have already told you we do not practise bible alone doctrine of martin luther.We existed before the bible and had the privilege of hearing from some of the people who witnessed this events.

If you have the privilege of listening to those that Paul described as false teachers during his time, you will be in trouble, not to talk of those who live long after his death.

I don't know Martin Luther. By reading the bible you will understand the importance of basing your doctrine on bible alone. That is why everything goes in catholic. They cannot separate falsehood from the truth and they believe everything that comes their way.

Boomark:

See what? Syncan failed with his proves. Do you have any other one? What is written is very clear.

I decided to leave you with your conscience after saying that Jesus stay at the right hand of the father is temporary. Just as I left you with that terrible lie that a woman who laughed at Gods promise of a son, a woman who Abraham had to hide his intention on isaac from, etc, is your woman of Gen3:15. I state my points and discuss when people talk honestly. I have gone through pages with you in honest discussions, not when cheap lies come to play, just for the purpose of argument.

Syncan:

I decided to leave you with your conscience after saying that Jesus stay at the right hand of the father is temporary. Just as I left you with that terrible lie that a woman who laughed at Gods promise of a son, a woman who Abraham had to hide his intention on isaac from, etc, is your woman of Gen3:15. I state my points and discuss when people talk honestly. I have gone through pages with you in honest discussions, not when cheap lies come to play, just for the purpose of argument.

You just labeled me a liar when you don't have any fact to back up what you believe in and i have not even started to off load what i have.

Truth is light and cannot be covered. Should i give you a hint of what you would have been up against because of your believe that the woman is Mary. Erm! No. I really want to see how the woman is Mary.

Reasoning from the scripture, that is my style.

This is why I took a break from Naira land. The same argument everyday. Honestly it is of no use explaining to someone who has made up his mind on what to believe about the Catholic Church.

Lovethywilbedon: This is why I took a break from Naira land. The same argument everyday. Honestly it is of no use explaining to someone who has made up his mind on what to believe about the Catholic Church.

The reason I argue with them is not to change the minds of those who have blocked their minds. It is to strengthen the faith of weaker Catholics and demonstrate to non-Catholics who are open-minded that the arguments against Catholicism are almost always as a result of close-mindedness.

I agree, it can be tedious and seemingly fruitless... I get tired too... but perhaps that is part of the cross I have to carry for this most holy faith of ours.

Who know which innocent soul will be drawn to the truth. Even one is worth the stress.

chukwudi44: THE SAMEBTHING REPEATED HERE. THE HIBLE IS THE INTERPRETER OF ITSELF. MARY IS THE MOTHER OF JAMES AND JOSES. THIS IS THE SAME MOTHER OF JESUS. THIS A PROVE THAT MARY ALSO IS A CREATURE AMD A MERE MORTAL THAT DO NOT DESERVE TO HE WORSHIPPED.

This is simply ridiculous!! The mother of James and Joses suddenly becomes the mother of Jesus!! This would be the 8th wonder of the world.

Now let us examine that narrative three gospel writers Mattew,Mark and John narrated this same event.



Matthew 27:56 KJV
"Among which was Mary
Magdalene, and Mary the
mother of James and Joses,
and the mother of Zebedee's
children."

Mark 15:40

"Some women were there looking on from a distance.Among them were Mary magdalene,Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses and Salome

John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene".

Even the dumbest student would see from this three narratives that Mary the mother of James and Joses is the same as Mary thhe wife of cleopas the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus through whom Jesus and James are related.

hehehe i was suprised he didn't notice that mary the mother of jose and co was not the wife of joseph and isn't the mothe of christ.
Peter you read scripture without understanding.

Boomark: ^of course. See more proof here.

Matthew 1:25
New International Version (©2011)
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. AndJoseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version (©2001)
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

You must not believe everything in the bible cos you were coached not to believe the truth.

What we are doing is for those that might not know before they enter. Those who are there already, man cannot help. I have proffered solution and a way out for them. Dissociate yourselves from all man made idols and God may be merciful.

in greek the word until has no effect on the future.
Go and learn at least a little greek if you will ever excel in biblical studies.

shdemidemi:

What on earth is this! Must you twist and use semantics to make a lie become true.

it is simple knowledge that "until" in the language the bible was written has no effect on the future unlike in english. That is what syncan was showing you with those quotes.

Boomark:

I believe the word inspired by the Holyspirit. if you don't, its not my fault. This is the English meaning, if that is the problem.

Main Entry: until
Function:conjunction
Date: 14th century
:up to the time that:up to such time as
<play continued until it got dark>
<never able to relax until he took up fishing>
<ran until she was breathless>

preposition&conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
[as preposition]:
the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents
he held the office until his death
[as conjunction]:
you don’t know what you can achieve until you try

Up to the time of his birth, they never had intercourse but they(Mary and Joseph) did it after his birth. God did not prevent them from enjoying their marriage.

It still stands as truth.

the bible wasn't written in english my dear! So go and learn a little greek.

Boomark:

So how is this different from what i wrote above or is it because i used the word "something"...that is not the real thing.

Go for the real thing, that is where we are now not the shadow. The real thing came in its fullness(Christ fulfilment of the old) not half half or with some missing part that you can patch with the shadows.

have you seen the real thing without it shadow before? I bet you have a shadow too, right?
Christ fulfilled the old covenant and rendered it void, but the new covenant will be an illusion if it was something without a shadow. That is why you have both old and new covenant in your bible.
If the old covenant had images i'm not shocked the new covenant has both images and a better understanding of it.

Ubenedictus: the bible wasn't written in english my dear! So go and learn a little greek.

I don't practice lawlessness. Adding, remove and making things null and void as it pleases me.

Boomark:


Your brothers could not confidently correct me. They don't like things that comes with questions.

The woman in Rev 12 is what i desire to know from you. Have you been able to know who she is?

Have you read Gal 4:21-31? It solved the issue of the woman in Genesis and Rev.

unfortunately galatians doesn't has any reference to genesis 2.
Sarah isn't the woman who gave birth to the messiah. Sorry she of genesis nor of jeremiah or isaiah.

Ubenedictus:
have you seen the real thing without it shadow before? I bet you have a shadow too, right?
Christ fulfilled the old covenant and rendered it void, but the new covenant will be an illusion if it was something without a shadow. That is why you have both old and new covenant in your bible.
If the old covenant had images i'm not shocked the new covenant has both images and a better understanding of it.

I am actually shocked that the images have different/random faces which you guys refer to as one person.

In God's standard, things are made to His specification not by human imagination. Besides in the new covenant, Christ said true worshipers must worship God in spirit and in truth. Don't you know that?

Boomark:

I don't practice lawlessness. Adding, remove and making things null and void as it pleases me.

neither do i, it is a fact that the bible wasn't written english, it is another fact that the greek word for until doesn't have the same meaning as the english.
The fact that you are ignorant of those facts doesn't make me lawless it simply means you need to to learn more.

Boomark:

I am actually shocked that the images have different/random faces which you guys refer to as one person.

In God's standard, things are made to His specification not by human imagination. Besides in the new covenant, Christ said true worshipers must worship God in spirit and in truth. Don't you know that?

Thats where you miss it. We dont refer to the images as one person. We refer to them as images of "one person."

An image is not the person and is not supposed to be the person. It is only made to resemble the person as much as possible.

The same way your pictures are not you and can look different from one another. They are only pictures of you, not you.

Also using images does not mean that we are not worshipping in spirit and truth. Otherwise the woman with issue of blood could be said to worship Jesus' garment.