tiarabubu:

i find it amusing that you can lie so unashamedly. The Catholic Encyclopedia was reporting discredited documents as part of an academic inquiry. The encyclopedia said so its self at the beginning of that section.

For you to use that to claim that the Encyclopedia was making an authoritative statement is intellectual dishonesty. You have been debunked several times on this forum and you still bring it up? LOL

Am not surprised, I have caught you many times lying thus (Altaquiyya?)

I was shocked when I saw tbaba confidently telling lies. . .Altaquiyya indeed. .

Yes? Lies is all they mutter,imagine qouting ahmadi site as source plus discredited report..most of them need dico. Cos the earlier the better for them to know the truth(CHRIST)

mazaje:

I was shocked when I saw tbaba confidently telling lies. . .Altaquiyya indeed. .

But you are not shocked that they could not provide evidence to back up their claims
Or is it just enough to say that what they are saying is true
BTW what is attaqiya?
Did women not lie in the Bible to save Moses?
Did Rahab not lie to save the spies in the bible?
Alexander the Great deceived his enemies in order to achieve conquests. Christians quote him approvingly
America always attack its enemies before the president comes out to inform Americans (not the enemy) of the commencement of hostilities
So where arises this idea that a muslim should endanger his life just because it is forbidden to lie
So what would a christian who is as "wise as serpent" do?

mazaje:

I was shocked when I saw tbaba confidently telling lies. . .Altaquiyya indeed. .

There is no such as Altaquiyya, it only exists among shias.

Apparently you guys did not read the whole thing.

Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated. All this agrees well with the language of the Evangelists. St. Luke (1:27) calls Mary "a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph"; St. Matthew (1:18) says, when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost". As we know of no brother of Mary, we must suppose that she was an heiress, and was obliged by the law of Numbers 36:6 to marry a member of her tribe. The Law itself prohibited marriage within certain degrees of relationship, so that the marriage of even an heiress was left more or less to choice.

According to Jewish custom, the union between Joseph and Mary had to be arranged by the parents of St. Joseph. One might ask why Mary consented to her betrothal, though she was bound by her vow of virginity. As she had obeyed God's inspiration in making her vow, so she obeyed God's inspiration in becoming the affianced bride of Joseph. Besides, it would have been singular among the Jews to refuse betrothal or marriage; for all the Jewish maidens aspired after marriage as the accomplishment of a natural duty. Mary trusted the Divine guidance implicitly, and thus was certain that her vow would be kept even in her married state.

Also it seems you did not read this:

From the age at which Hebrew maidens became marriageable, it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Now this is the conclusion of the encylclopedia based on what was common practise at the time. Of course, they don't have her actual age but if it was common practise then their conclusion makes perfect sense.

The point is this: IT WAS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL

Before accusing me of lying, read the entire thing first.

Montesquieu, the French Philosopher whose works heavily influenced the Founding Fathers of the American Constitution said this:

Women were marriageable in hot climates at eight, nine or ten years of age; thus, childhoof and marriage almost always go together. They are old at 20, thus reason with women is never found with beauty there.... Therefore when reason does not oppose it, it is very simple there for a man to leave his wife and take another and for polygamy to be introduced. Book 16 Montesquieu, The spirit of laws, pg 264-265

http://books.google.com.au/books?output=html_text&id=-3OssKQ_bSoC&q=265

Women were considered OLD at 20. Interesting, isn't it?

There is more interesting reading about mary in Dale c. Allison' s Matthew the shorter commentary:

http://books.google.com.ng/books?id=m_OShrBh0I0C&pg=PA12&lpg=PP1&output=html_text

Read pages 11 and 12.

For bible students, please read good bible commentaries.

I enjoyed reading parts of dale allison's work

tbaba1234:

There is no such as Altaquiyya, it only exists among shias.

Apparently you guys did not read the whole thing.

Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated. All this agrees well with the language of the Evangelists. St. Luke (1:27) calls Mary "a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph"; St. Matthew (1:18) says, when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost". As we know of no brother of Mary, we must suppose that she was an heiress, and was obliged by the law of Numbers 36:6 to marry a member of her tribe. The Law itself prohibited marriage within certain degrees of relationship, so that the marriage of even an heiress was left more or less to choice.

According to Jewish custom, the union between Joseph and Mary had to be arranged by the parents of St. Joseph. One might ask why Mary consented to her betrothal, though she was bound by her vow of virginity. As she had obeyed God's inspiration in making her vow, so she obeyed God's inspiration in becoming the affianced bride of Joseph. Besides, it would have been singular among the Jews to refuse betrothal or marriage; for all the Jewish maidens aspired after marriage as the accomplishment of a natural duty. Mary trusted the Divine guidance implicitly, and thus was certain that her vow would be kept even in her married state.

Also it seems you did not read this:

From the age at which Hebrew maidens became marriageable, it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Now this is the conclusion of the encylclopedia based on what was common practise at the time. Of course, they don't have her actual age but if it was common practise then their conclusion makes perfect sense.

The point is this: IT WAS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL

Before accusing me of lying, read the entire thing first.

It does NOT say Mary was 13 and Joseph was 90 any where, that is your own making. . .Pls stop making things up. . .It also says the age of the brides varies. . . It does not say any where that Mary was 13 and Joseph was 90, that remains your own false assumption. . .

@tbaba, these BIBLE verses didn't say mary was 12yrs or girls was engage to their spouse at 12yrs..this just shows how confused u're..imagine ahmadi site(muslim.org) saying Aisha was 14yrs are they wiser n knowledgeable than the Khalifas who lives with her then..u ppl are prepare to say any lies,that is why ur religion is dwindling in middle east even here in 9ja..ur claims are false,lies,lair

^Hebrew girls at the time were married at about 12.5 years... Mary was hebrew wasn't she?

Given that fact, they made the conclusion that Mary probably had Jesus at 13.

Perfectly logical. It was perfectly normal.

This is also confirmed by the commentary i pasted above.

It seems even scholars agree that she
was most likely that young, It was perfectly normal.

I think the age of Joseph is found in some history books.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Joseph_the_Carpenter

We have little knowledge of Jesus before he was 12.

Let's assume the information on Joseph is inaccurate. It does not change the facts on the ground.

Many christian scholars still think that mary was probably married at 12 in line with hebrew culture.

The point is that it was perfectly normal.

That is why we have to show respect to the history and cultures of people.We can't even compare the 21st century to 200 years ago, much less to over a thousand years ago.

Which Christian scholar? Ur imam or sheik..repeating the same things when all u point to is baseless..imagine u even using 'likely n maybe'..if u're defending someone for court lyk this, d person go get lengthy jail time

Msgamble u are still arguing ? After about seven days u are yet to make a single sensible qoute with proof? No sites nor books or qoutes to either show us r true age of mary or aisha (may Allah be plsd with them both)!!!

Nothing a neutral minded person can hold on to. No explanations not even ur bible verses!

U re just completely filled with hate n ur hatred cannot be helped by anyone but urself!

@tosin, my bro..ur claims 4rm discredited report n ahmadi(not considered muslim by indonesia,pakis.) site make me sick, u can't urgue baselessly..u ppl brought the issued up,so u ought to defend it credibly not on 'logic(this no be maths)' or maybe lyk my bro tbaba point out..now u're asking me to defend ur claims, haba

tosin2013: Msgamble u are still arguing ? After about seven days u are yet to make a single sensible qoute with proof? No sites nor books or qoutes to either show us r true age of mary or aisha (may Allah be plsd with them both)!!!

Nothing a neutral minded person can hold on to. No explanations not even ur bible verses!

U re just completely filled with hate n ur hatred cannot be helped by anyone but urself!

usually in nl when people. don't have evidence to support. their claim s they brand their opponents liars nd sleep well with the thought that Paul's ministry is afloat. unfortunately for gamble,this. sort of trick only works where. children r gathered, so gamble ur tactics shld be reserved for the play ground.

@vedax, are u so daft to know ur ppl brought the issue up so u're expecting me to defend it for u? Total gibberish..earlier in the session ppl back their arguement of ur 7yrs old union with ur book as their source..u can't even qoute a BIBLE verse or anything reasonable buh muslim.org n discredited report n word lyk 'logic' 'maybe' as ur claims(not suprised by ur standard),u expect me to believe it,BIG JOKE ..STOP BEIGN CHILDISH or u will compelled by cane

Msgamble: @vedax, are u so daft to know ur ppl brought the issue up so u're expecting me to defend it for u? Total gibberish..earlier in the session ppl back their arguement of ur 7yrs old union with ur book as their source..u can't even qoute a BIBLE verse or anything reasonable buh muslim.org n discredited report n word lyk 'logic' 'maybe' as ur claims(not suprised by ur standard),u expect me to believe it,BIG JOKE ..STOP BEIGN CHILDISH or u will compelled by cane

maybe if you knew what common sense means and how to reason, you would have known that when refute a person argument, you do so with evidence, if you say Obama is a woman, then i disagree, It is your right to ask for evidence supporting the alternative, now being an individual that uses common sense and is able to reason, I would post pictures of Obama clearly showing that Obama is a male, then I will further support it with evidence such as write ups that identify Obama of being such, . . ., I hope you understand the simple commonsense101 lesson i have just showed, offcourse being who you are, I know you would still score zero if set an exam on this lesson e.g.

tosin2013: Msgamble u are still arguing ? After about seven days u are yet to make a single sensible qoute with proof? No sites nor books or qoutes to either show us r true age of mary or aisha (may Allah be plsd with them both)!!!

Nothing a neutral minded person can hold on to. No explanations not even ur bible verses!

U re just completely filled with hate n ur hatred cannot be helped by anyone but urself!

I believe if you had any atom of reasoning left in you, you would say you have not evidence to back your claims! But we know what to expect from gamble . . .

Common sense 101!!!

Msgamble pls learn this course by heart it may b of immense help in d future.

After all, there is a saying that, common sense is not COMMON!!!

U haven't present any credible source to back up ur claims(am nt a fool lyk u,i won't qoute disgracing source as my evident)so there is no need for me to counter u,all u point to as evident are discredited report n muslim.org(am sure u won't expect me to believe that)..it is equivalent to me qouting maybe celestial.(?) that ur leader is born in Agege..while ppl are point to ur book as their source all u daft make up is an ahmadi sites(lies) who most sunni cleric in indo,pakis don't considered muslim,if this mess are ur evident too bad 4 u..U're a real mess..SHM

Chai!! u re really a slow learner msgamble.

Don't worry keep trying eh! One day u ll get there!

For starters try reading the parargraph below very slowly

vedaxcool:

maybe if you knew what common sense means and how to reason, you would have known that when refute a person argument, you do so with evidence, if you say Obama is a woman, then i disagree, It is your right to ask for evidence supporting the alternative, now being an individual that uses common sense and is able to reason, I would post pictures of Obama clearly showing that Obama is a male, then I will further support it with evidence such as write ups that identify Obama of being such, . . ., I hope you understand the simple commonsense101 lesson i have just showed, offcourse being who you are, I know you would still score zero if set an exam on this lesson e.g.




I believe if you had any atom of reasoning left in you, you would say you have not evidence to back your claims! But we know what to expect from gamble . . .