Ihedinobi:

Would you say that Rebecca deceived Isaac into marrying her? It's an argument I was refraining from using because I do not want to hurt the op anymore than she has been but I can't continue to avoid it because this is a public forum.

First agree that Rebecca never knew about any medical condition prior to marrying Isaac. The difference here is that the husband knew about his medical condition and he never disclosed not even after the wedding but until pressure was mounted. Do you call such an action a godly attitude?
You have to first understand who is a christian before dishing such advice. The fact that someone attends a church building does not qualify him/her as a christian, there must be regeneration to be reflected in actions. All the actions of the husband proved otherwise.

Guitarlife: See the issue with OP is that the said husband disvirgined her. If we carefully read through the bible, we will realise that the disvirginning of a woman represents the actual consummation of marriage not the vows or feasting. Those are just distractions. Exodus 22:16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife" and again Deu 22:28 "If a man finds a girl, a virgin not engaged, and lays hold on her, and lies with her, and they are found, "
Deu 22:29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife. Because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." I do not have the energy to type but the fact that OP was a virgin and the said man disvirgined her as changed everything.
On another note, the OPs husband is not impotent, he is only infertile like some people have already pointed out. That means he is capable and indeed carries out his conjugal duties. The issue here is Ops obssession with children which is probably influenced by her strong African upbringing. To be fair, many Europeans and Americans will not find her husbands case am anomally why ?? Because the dude can perform in bed and THEY LOVE HIM GENUINELY. OP is only practicing the african version of marriage I am truely concerned that most people commenting are missing this fact.

@ Guitarlife, I appreciate the fact that you know I am African....but would crave your indulgence that you don't mix up issues because everywhere in the world, it is important you disclose serious issues before marriage, and an "oyibo" man would not hide issues from his would be spouse before his marriage....meanwhile why would you think the "oyibos" too don't want children and would not mind.....having theirs especially when they can....if not, the IVF, ICSI, TESE, etc would not have been developed by them...rather, these are proofs that they too are humans and need their biological children.
I think its an individual and not a racial thing, as there is no hard and fast rule about it.
you don't generalize as some Africans too would not mind taking your "oyibo" man's option of being just happy and satisfied with just s.ex.
thank you.

debosky:

I respectfully disagree - a bond formed deceitfully doesn't exist in my view and is a lie, even in God's eyes. God who sees everything will not endorse a lie.

She should seek a dissolution of the marriage on the basis that it was only entered into due to the deception of her husband and his family. She is free to re-marry.

+ 2 million likes jare.

Perfect post!

ayans4u:

@ Guiterlife, I appreciate the fact that you know I am African....but would crave your indulgence that you don't mix up issues because everywhere in the world, it is important you disclose serious issues before marriage, and an "oyibo" man would not hide issues from his would be spouse before his marriage....meanwhile why would you think the "oyibos" too don't want children and would not mind.....having theirs especially when they can....if not the IVF, ICSI, TESE, etc would not have been developed by them...rather, these are proofs that they too are humans and need their biological children.
I think its an individual and not a racial thing, as there is no hard and fast rule about it.
you don't generalize as some Africans too would not mind taking your "oyibo" man's option of being just happy and satisfied with just s.ex.
thank you.

Take it easy my dear. DOn't let anyone get you worked up.

Efemena_xy:

Okay, I get where you're coming from and your reasons. So basically, the answer is a 'NO' from your end.

Now this brings me to the second question I asked you regarding your husband. Seeing as it's a no sex from you, what are your expectations of him? Do you expect him to be celibate till December? Or is he allowed to date others / have sex on the outside?

Efe, I think the choice is his......he would have to consider the pros and cons of whichever he decides to take....
thanks for the questions.

bellong:

First agree that Rebecca never knew about any medical condition prior to marrying Isaac. The difference here is that the husband knew about his medical condition and he never disclosed not even after the wedding but until pressure was mounted. Do you call such an action a godly attitude?
You have to first understand who is a christian before dishing such advice. The fact that someone attends a church building does not qualify him/her as a christian, there must be regeneration to be reflected in actions. All the actions of the husband proved otherwise.

@OP: Sorry for the slight digression here but I've gotta ask... Bellong, are you a pastor / rev. father??

Efemena_xy:

@OP: Sorry for the slight digression here but I've gotta ask... Bellong, are you a pastor / rev. father??

Far from it, I only happen to be a disciple of Jesus by His grace.

ayans4u:

Efe, I think the choice is his......he would have to consider the pros and cons of whichever he decides to take....
thanks for the questions.

No worries.

But have you discussed the bolded bit with him? Or left it on the assumption that he should be aware of these pro's and con's? I already have a good guess what one of the cons here would involve.

See, it's not my intention to nag you, but just making sure you've considered the implications of living apart and what could happen, so nothing comes as a 'shock' to you... The situation as it is, is messy enough, and I'm sure you wouldn't want any unnecessary or added complications.

Tgirl4real:

Sincerely, I agree with u. Unfortunately, it is not a biblical grounds for divorce. If OP doesn't wanna live or address this issue on biblical grounds, I will be the first to tell her to take a walk cos it is only God that can sustain someone in such a situation.

@Tgirl4real......don't forget my "walking out" of this marriage could be premised on my "fear of God" as remaining in it could mean being susceptible to sexu.al sin.....so for God's sake...I may walk out so that I don't commit "adultery" which is the ground "recognized" by the Bible....in the name of wanting to make babies......

ayans4u:

@Tgirl4real......don't forget my "walking out" of this marriage could be premised on my "fear of God" as remaining in it could mean being susceptible to sexu.al sin.....so for God's sake...I may walk out so that I don't commit "adultery" which is the ground "recognized" by the Bible....in the name of wanting to make babies......

Wow!

Now this is really twisted

bellong:

We need to understand the context and cultural practice of Isreal about union before we can categorically talk about a divorce not being biblical or not.

For all the godly unions I have read in the scripture, there was none associated with deceit. Sincerity and truthfulness are the first step to a godly union. Whatever is laid on the foundation of lies and deceit is not laid on the foundation of God. The fact that somebody got married inside a church building does not make it a godly union unless God's standard about the process are fulfilled.

I believe that deceit is enough to annul the union without attraction of God's wrath. If the husband is godly in himself, he would have opened up during the courtship knowing that there is nothing God cannot do. He would have proved himself overtime and earned the undying love of his wife to stand by him during this trying times.

@ Bellong...Thank you soooooo much!

bellong:

First agree that Rebecca never knew about any medical condition prior to marrying Isaac. The difference here is that the husband knew about his medical condition and he never disclosed not even after the wedding but until pressure was mounted. Do you call such an action a godly attitude?
You have to first understand who is a christian before dishing such advice. The fact that someone attends a church building does not qualify him/her as a christian, there must be regeneration to be reflected in actions. All the actions of the husband proved otherwise.

Alright then. Here's my full argument.

1. If marriage were solely for the purpose of bearing one's own biological children, then deceiving one's potential spouse as to one's ability to procreate is unforgivable and nullifies the marriage contract. So, the question here is: is marriage solely for procreation?

2. Can anyone give solid evidence, not circumstantial which may be explained in more than one plausible way, but solid evidence that the man in question lied about his fertility?

3. Considering the nature of the marriage contract and assuming that procreation is so big a deal to the parties involved, it behoves the concerned parties to make doubly sure that their potential partner is fertile. Did the op do everything within her power to ascertain the potential hubby's fertility? If she did not, she's partly responsible for the deceit that she complains of.

4. As for the husband's actions, I do not know enough about him to judge whether he may be a Christian or not.

Oh I should add that I don't see any reason to agree that Rebecca never knew of any such medical condition. I do not know what the medical science of their days was like, do you? How are you so sure that the husband knew?

Please o bible newbie here

When did rebecca deceive isaac as relating to marriage

The only one I know was the food issue

Efemena_xy:

Wow!

Now this is really twisted

I think so too.

biolabee: Please o bible newbie here

When did rebecca deceive isaac as relating to marriage

The only one I know was the food issue

Anyone say she did?

Ihedinobi:

Alright then. Here's my full argument.

1. If marriage were solely for the purpose of bearing one's own biological children, then deceiving one's potential spouse as to one's ability to procreate is unforgivable and nullifies the marriage contract. So, the question here is: is marriage solely for procreation?

2. Can anyone give solid evidence, not circumstantial which may be explained in more than one plausible way, but solid evidence that the man in question lied about his fertility?

3. Considering the nature of the marriage contract and assuming that procreation is so big a deal to the parties involved, it behoves the concerned parties to make doubly sure that their potential partner is fertile. Did the op do everything within her power to ascertain the potential hubby's fertility? If she did not, she's partly responsible for the deceit that she complains of.

4. As for the husband's actions, I do not know enough about him to judge whether he may be a Christian or not.

To clear a part, I did not and will not judge the husband. I only pointed out something based on what the poster narrated that his actions do not show godly attitude.
Procreation may not be the only reason why someone should marry but it is ONE of the reasons why people marry that cannot be overemphasized nor overlooked.
The man in question did not lie but hid the truth about his condition. The condition is not something you can play down in relationship, its very important such is disclosed to the agreement of parties involved. Hiding it is deception.

The guy dodged the test when the poster went for tests, she trusted him enough not to push him in doing his. He was supposed to repay the trust by opening up.

Ihedinobi:

Anyone say she did?

I an referring to this post

Ihedinobi:

Would you say that Rebecca deceived Isaac into marrying her?. It's an argument I was refraining from using because I do not want to hurt the op anymore than she has been but I can't continue to avoid it because this is a public forum.

bellong:

To clear a part, I did not and will not judge the husband. I only pointed out something based on what the poster narrated that his actions do not show godly attitude.

Do Christians show godly attitude all the time?

Procreation may not be the only reason why someone should marry but it is ONE of the reasons why people marry that cannot be overemphasized nor overlooked.

If procreation is not the sole purpose of marriage, then marriage is not frustrated by the failure of procreation. If it is not, then deceit as to one's ability to procreate does not render marriage invalid. As for why people get married, there are all kinds of subjective reasons, but we cannot judge the validity of a marriage contract by them because none of these people instituted marriage. Only the One Who did has the right to say what the Purpose of Marriage is and where that Purpose has been frustrated thus rendering the contract fraudulent, don't you agree?

The man in question did not lie but hid the truth about his condition. The condition is not something you can play down in relationship, its very important such is disclosed to the agreement of parties involved. Hiding it is deception.

It's all the same to me. I just asked how you're so sure. That's all I'm interested in.

The guy dodged the test when the poster went for tests, she trusted him enough not to push him in doing his. He was supposed to repay the trust by opening up.

Let me accept for the sake of argument that he deceived her. Now, did he realize that child-bearing was a make-or-break factor in the alliance?

biolabee:

I an referring to this post

Did I say that she deceived him?

@ihedinobi

Are you saying having kids or not should(not) be a make or mar factor

Moreso I'm still waiting for your response on how rebecca deceived isaac

So what's the isaac - revecca rationale in this ladie's scenario


The david - bathsheba one was clear but you brought this new angle up

Ihedinobi:

Did I say that she deceived him?

biolabee: @ihedinobi

Are you saying having kids or not should(not) be a make or mar factor

Moreso I'm still waiting for your response on how rebecca deceived isaac

You tell me, is it? If you think it is, let me know why. I've already offered an argument for why it is not.

I don't know how to asnwer your q

For someone who it is not important to.. It is not

For someone whom a child is important to, it is important to..

It's the person's choice

The important thing is two cannot walk together except they are agreed

The man knew he could not or at best hoped he may one day walking with a woman who wants a child

They are not in consonance

Chikena

I no wan argue o

Ihedinobi:

You tell me, is it? If you think it is, let me know why. I've already offered an argument for why it is not.

biolabee: So what's the isaac - revecca rationale in this ladie's scenario

Isaac prayed for Rebecca his wife when he found her barren. Did she know that she was before she got married to him? We don't know. We've got reason to say that she may not have known but there's a slight possibility that she may have suspected but neither matters. My interest is simply in Isaac's example. That was why I brought it up initially.

Marriage makes one person's problem two people's. I don't get mad at my wife and divorce her because she fails to meet a subjective expectation I have of her if I'm a Christian. I take the problem to be mine and address my powers to it. As long as God's foundation for marriage exists in our relationship, every other subjective issue can be worked out. If she lied to me to get me to marry her, as long as the lie does not attack God's foundation, I can forgive her and we can heal together and grow.

That I can say all that does not mean that I think it is easy.

biolabee: I don't know how to asnwer your q

For someone who it is not important to.. It is not

For someone whom a child is important to, it is important to..

It's the person's choice

The important thing is two cannot walk together except they are agreed

The man knew he could not or at best hoped he may one day walking with a woman who wants a child

They are not in consonance

Chikena

I no wan argue o

Lol @ you no wan argue! Why you come chook head?

Marriage as an institution has a purpose. That purpose is not subject to individual preference. As long as that purpose is served, no individual preference invalidates it, do you get that? That is my argument.

Ihedinobi: If we're talking according to Christianity here at all, the op has no grounds for a divorce. The fact that she was deceived into this covenant is not sufficient for a divorce. If she chooses to get one, it is contrary to the Faith she professes. So, you can only proceed with a divorce by excluding your faith, ma'am.

I am not unsympathetic however. I know that God rewards faithful endurance and He will in this case. If you stay true, you will be rewarded for your steadfastness. There are those in the Scriptures who married not knowing that their spouses were unfruitful but upon finding out they travailed in prayer for them until God heard and granted their plea.

But if you would prefer to indulge in today's "rationalism" and act as though God has gone silent and is no longer capable of overruling natural laws then go ahead and disobey the Lord. I assure you that He's still the same God that gave Isaac twins when he cried to Him for his barren wife.

As for the wicked deceit that you suffered from your husband, the command to forgive has not been repealed. He did you a terrible wrong but you have got more reason now to forgive him than to hurt him. Who knows? It may be by this that you will win a soul to your Lord, perhaps more than one soul.

Finally, your marriage and its troubles are more God's problem than they could ever be yours. If you appreciate that then you'lk know that He's invested in your tears and is not at all tardy about wiping them away. Trust your God and let Him come through for you and give you a testimony that will turn the hearts of many to Him.

God bless you, sis.

@bolded,

maclatunji:

@bolded,

Well?

Ihedinobi:

You tell me, is it? If you think it is, let me know why. I've already offered an argument for why it is not.

@ ihedinobi.....if its not, why would I need children that display my character, have my lips, eyes, nose, walk and talk like me?
don't you think anybody would want an offspring to take care of them when they are old and not rely on relatives etc....have you ever imagined what life would have been for your parents now....without you or your siblings (if any).....so what's your point?
why wouldn't procreation be an integral factor that can make or mar any union?
....don't you know that most marital issues/solution have their roots embedded on the disability/ability to procreate?
or haven't you seen couples who got seriously offended but wholly forgave as a result of the offspring/children produced by the union?

Ihedinobi: If we're talking according to Christianity here at all, the op has no grounds for a divorce. T[b]he fact that she was deceived into this covenant is not sufficient for a divorce.[/b] If she chooses to get one, it is contrary to the Faith she professes. So, you can only proceed with a divorce by excluding your faith, ma'am.
^^^
WRONG: The fact that she was deceived is an enough reason to ANNUL the covenant: Jacob was deceived to marry Leah, He insisted that it is a FRAUD, I ain't gonna settle for LESS, I know what I want, Give me RACHEL, he later married RACHEL.

Ihedinobi:

Lol @ you no wan argue! Why you come chook head?

Marriage as an institution has a purpose. That purpose is not subject to individual preference. As long as that purpose is served, no individual preference invalidates it, do you get that? That is my argument.

haha,,, funny guy,,, u make some points but dont use that as a means of downplaying the importance of children which is God ordained
Moreover Rebecca was childless not that she has had countless abortions which destroyed her womb

Non-parellel examples

Can I ask what you mean by this

Ihedinobi: If she lied to me to get me to marry her, as long as the lie does not attack God's foundation, I can forgive her and we can heal together and grow.

- what kind of lie do you think attack's God;s foundation
- Do you the omission of this truth invalidates this union (the lie in the Op's case)

kind.way:
Ihedinobi: If we're talking according to Christianity here at all, the op has no grounds for a divorce. T[b]he fact that she was deceived into this covenant is not sufficient for a divorce.[/b] If she chooses to get one, it is contrary to the Faith she professes. So, you can only proceed with a divorce by excluding your faith, ma'am.
^^^
WRONG: The fact that she was deceived is an enough reason to ANNUL the covenant: Jacob was deceived to marry Leah, He insisted that it is a FRAUD, I ain't gonna settle for LESS, I know what I want, Give me REBECCA, he later married Rebecca.

I think you mean Rachel