Joavid:
I don enter hot water

In order of your question which might not be quite satisfactory as I am dumb compared to you.


Yes,if it has gotten so worse to the point of breakage,I will go with my ethnic group.
Just like you said,it is good to dream;and hope for better,that's what am doing,it does not make me less realistic or pratical. But then,to make a dream reality,you have to work for it....only a few believe in this dream and the others pessimists.

Realy,you actually believe everything is done based on tribal politics?
Everything is done based on personal interest.
I thought you were good at digging deep. The most selfish and greedy politicians are in Nigerian.
all that "fighting for my tribe interest" is a lie.
e.g If truly the niger deltan millions or elites were fighting for the cause of their people,the land should look like dubai by now. Perhaps they were sincerely fighting for the cause in the begining but as soon as the saw money.... And so many other examples.

What's Nigeria It is country,a federal state(although in truth we know the system is not federal) with 250 tribes.
The Nigerian identity? Just like tensol777 said,it is something of a powerful connection you can only relate to if you grew up in Nigeria
,that is if you look on the bright side.


And when I wrote "you are privileged",I was not talking about your education or the knowledge you have acquired, I meant the country,where the entire system is almost perfect compared to Nigeria.

You saying "typical Nigerian" "average Nigerian" and am asking how many home bred Nigerians have you met?(You are making a generalisation that I don't think its true)

If I should go by the parable in the bible you mentioned, it is completely out of place in this situation because if you read the parable well,you should have known that the king/boss was a good leader and the land;a good and fertile one....now compare?

Do you even know what it is like growing up in an average family and environment
in Nigeria? The struggle and zeal to suceed,but the entire system and government is so fvcked up,then behaving and acting a certain way is a must.
So I do agree that Nigerians need re orientation that is when necessary things are put in place,then the revolution of the "average Nigerian mentality"


Yes, a good friend should advice and give help and support. Not criticise alone.so you tell me who is the good friend?

To me, a true Nigerian is someone who was born and raised in Nigeria,seen and experienced the positives and negatives,a true patriot that sees our potentials,believes in better(the better could be disintegration or one Nigeria) as the eventuality of the case maybe.



Lastly,am not naming any advance country,why can't Nigeria be the first? Why can't we make an example?
And then our motto will be "unity in diversity"


At the end of the day,Nigeria's problem isn't realy ethnicity or tribe,its corruption. It can disintegrate and that does not change the corrupt nature of the people.

Also,how are you more Nigerian than me Am also an eko(lagos) girl, a comfirm lagos citizen with kogi descent and ebira ancesory

Just relax, think and observe how difffidence- inability to beieve in your otentials is driving you crazy over long-proven dysfunctional one Nigeria. You do not seem to beleive that crude oil is not all there is for a country to survive. The country with the best index for well-being for its citizens - Switzerlnd is landlocked and has no oil. So why are you so apparently scared of forming your own country with those that think like you?

tensor777:
It is still very difficult for you and others in your position to grasp that elusive concept as to what it means to be a Nigerian.
Well Nigeria has been invested with the leadership position in Black Africa to lead ,as it were ,the Black Race out of darkness and into the light.
Thus every Nigerian of the leadership class, if you like, has this important role to play to ensure the fiulfilment of this divine destiny and as such has been invested with this authority whether they realise it or not.
This role Nigeria has inherited thus makes any centrifugal ramblings and rantings of the reactionary ethnic supremacists on this forum not just irrelevant but utterly deluded.

However, what should it be "difficult" for the common man to grasp that "elusive" concept of being Nigerian? Why do you need complexity for something that ought to be made simple? Perhaps, the only reason why this "elusive concept" of being Nigerian is shroudded in complexity is because there's no Nigeria. Nigeria just exist for the sake of it. All other nationalities aren't complex. So why's Nigeria different? Only someone who has nothing to offer would hide behind secrecy/complexity, play hide and seek and bit around the bush over something that should be pretty much straight-forward. I put it to you that; there's NO Nigerian identity!

Don't piss me off with that crap about Nigeria leading Africa and the black race. I'm passionate about my black African identity and it's utterly disrespectful to say a country as backward as Nigeria is would lead black people. Cut it off. Nigeriacan't even lead itself out of the doldrums, yet you want that shambles of a country to lead about 1billion people who have been generationally marginalised and dehumanised for more than 400 years. The gods of Africa would curse you for that. Forward ever, backward never. Don't take the black race 53 years back to 1960 when Nigeria was meant to be the leader of the black race. Everyone has moved on and left Nigeria in the doldrums! "I walk slowly, but I never walk backward." - Abraham Lincoln

Lastly, you still haven't answered my questions, brother. I guess you're as "complex" as Nigeria, hence why you keep playing hide and seek with me, no?

DerideGull:

It is unfortunate a poster of your caliber has chosen this cyber medium to spew crap about visionary Diasporas who had contributed immensely to see the cesspit called Nigeria grow.
It is very funny to read from a childish drivel especially at the point you hinted “we shall become great once again” as if Nigeria has ever being great. What a delusion.

Since your idea of vision is calling your country a cesspit and calling for total disintegration without any thought on what your new 'country' will resemble and whether such disintegration would lead to multiple wars and loss of unnecessary lives, then I am a visionless Nigerian, while you people are visionary diasporans.

No one or should I say none of the one-Nigerianists has been able to answer the three question I posted since yesterday. So I guess I would have to be the bigger man and do the "needful" by answering the questions their king posted. Hopefully, one of them would be able to reciprocate the gesture and answer mine as well.

Answers:

(1) There's no democracy in Nigeria. Democracy is government for the people by the people based on principles of social equality and respect for the individuals within a community and it's ideological. Not government based on tribal affiliation and domination.

(2) This is the enlightenment age and like Albert Einstein said, "Insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result." My grandfather tried, it never worked. My father tried, still the same result. I'm not insane, so I want to try a different approach, so as to achieve a different result.

(3) The same form of government isn't applicable to Nigeria due to divided interests. The Northerners are feudalists. Easterners are republicans/conservatives. And the Westerners are democrats albeit still believe in monarchy. The inability to galvanise these three orientations within the Nigerian context for a common goal is why the country is messed up. It's just not possible because they will always be at loggerheads.

tensor777:
It is still very difficult for you and others in your position to grasp that elusive concept as to what it means to be a Nigerian.
Well Nigeria has been invested with the leadership position in Black Africa to lead ,as it were ,the Black Race out of darkness and into the light.
Thus every Nigerian of the leadership class, if you like, has this important role to play to ensure the fiulfilment of this divine destiny and as such has been invested with this authority whether they realise it or not.
This role Nigeria has inherited thus makes any centrifugal ramblings and rantings of the reactionary ethnic supremacists on this forum not just irrelevant but utterly deluded.

It is either you have deliberately turned this into a joke or you're just revelling in the nebulous and grandiose idea of Nigeria being 'invested with the leadership position in black Africa'.

What type of leadership please? How does this affect the masses? Do you want to tell this to the many Nigerians that are working hard at menial jobs in Britain or languishing in the prisons of Thailand? Honestly, inability to face reality is a major problem for many Nigerians.

Another funny idea you have put forward is that the leadership or authority is divine destiny . This is as funny as it is outlandish. And when debates go the way of the supernatural, it is wise to walk away from it.

(1) There's no democracy in Nigeria. Democracy is government for the people by the people based on principles of social equality and respect for the individuals within a community and it's ideological. Not government based on tribal affiliation and domination.

It is safe to say that the government of the USA is one which people use as an example of a democracy. If we go by the definition above, then the USA is not a democracy. Government for the people by the people based on principles of social equality is a non existent ideal, even in the USA. What is practiced in the USA is admitedly close to it. The delusions of many of you diaspora slaves includes believing that you will ever be treated equally where you live. We have moved from millitary governments to what we have today and we will continue to move towards democratic ideals, with or without you people.

(2) This is the enlightenment age and like Albert Einstein said, "Insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result." My grandfather tried, it never worked. My father tried, still the same result. I'm not insane, so I want to try a different approach, so as to achieve a different result.

Every fool knows that our system in Nigeria needs improvement and that is why we have the on going constitutional amendment process, and the national conference. What is stopping you and your friends from contributing? It is not enough to come to nairaland and make noise, its time for you to act or move on!

(3) The same form of government isn't applicable to Nigeria due to divided interests. The Northerners are feudalists. Easterners are republicans/conservatives. And the Westerners are democrats albeit still believe in monarchy. The inability to galvanise these three orientations within the Nigerian context for a common goal is why the country is messed up. It's just not possible because they will always be at loggerheads.

We will end up designing a system which works in our unique situation. What are you going to contribute towards our success. You are not oyibo, you will never be one. Stay with your Oyibo people and espouse their ideals and butt out of our problems if you cannot become part of the solution.

By 2050,Australia's population is currently projected to reacharound 42 million.

The Barossa Valley is a wine-producing region in South Australia.Fewer than 15% of Australians live in rural areas.

Education is the responsibility of the individual states and territories[272] so the rules vary between states

Australia has an adult literacy rate that was
estimated to be 99% in 2003.

Australia has 37 government-funded universities
and two private universities, as well as a number of
other specialist institutions that provide approved
courses at the higher education level.

Population- 2013 estimate 23,261,702,Area
- Total 7,692,024 km2 (6th) 2,969,907 sq mi.

It is the world's sixth-largest country by total area

Australia was inhabited by indigenous Australians,
who spoke languages grouped into roughly 250 language groups.

After the discovery of the continent by Dutch explorers in 1606, Australia's eastern half was claimed by Great Britain in 1770

Australia is a developed country and one of the
wealthiest in the world, with the world's 12th-
largest economy

In 2012 Australia had the world's fifth-highest per capita income

Australia's military expenditure is the world's 13th-largest

Australia is a wealthy country with a market economy, a relatively high GDP per capita,and a relatively low rate of poverty. In terms of average wealth, Australia ranked second in the world after Switzerland in 2013, and the nation's poverty rate increased from 10.2 per cent to 11.8 per cent, from 2000/01 to 2013.

Almost 5.9 million of the total population settled in the country as new immigrants, meaning that nearly two out of every seven Australians were born in another country

In the 2011 census, 61.1% of Australians were counted as Christian, including 25.3% as Roman Catholic and 17.1% as Anglican; 22.3% of the population reported having "no religion" (which includes humanism, atheism, agnosticism and rationalism); 7.2% identify with non-Christian religions, the largest of these being Buddhism (2.5%), followed by Islam (2.2%), Hinduism (1.3%) and Judaism (0.5%). The remaining 9.4% of the population did not provide an answer.

******I'm AS COLD AS THE RUSSIAN WINTER NOW......I CHANGE MY IDEOLOGY ABOUT tHE ONE NIGERIA BUT I DESIST VIOLENCE.*******


My question is why keep a country with so much population and doesn't make any difference in the international world,people calling one nigeria what are your reasons except being kings in africa and being pawns to the world,you want to maintain the giant of africa sh!it,most populous shi!t.......come on let come out of the pretentious shell so this debate can be called a truce......austrailia is just 23million poulation which is not up to the population of lagos,they have more than enough religious populance than nigeria,they have 250 ethnic if I'm correct and they are topping the world chart in all ramifications......why keep a country that's is crawling and crippled!! Why just get big and suffer!! Come on!!!!! Let's think about the future,the unborn generation.....we still in this generation and the level of hate has increased to this level,what do we expect of the coming generations......departion is the best for the african heritage full of vast culture!!!

Here is a typical rural settings in austrailia compare to the shacks we've got here in nigeria!come on!!!!

^^^^^Please don't expect sensible or straight answers to your questions.

Pukkah: ^^^^^Please don't expect sensible or straight answers to your questions.

why youngman

tensor777:
It is still very difficult for you and others in your position to grasp that elusive concept as to what it means to be a Nigerian.
Well Nigeria has been invested with the leadership position in Black Africa to lead ,as it were ,the Black Race out of darkness and into the light.
Thus every Nigerian of the leadership class, if you like, has this important role to play to ensure the fiulfilment of this divine destiny and as such has been invested with this authority whether they realise it or not.
This role Nigeria has inherited thus makes any centrifugal ramblings and rantings of the reactionary ethnic supremacists on this forum not just irrelevant but utterly deluded.

Wow! For real? We can't even do a simple headcount since 1960 - something one Ugandan minister used as a jab few years ago - remember? Most of us haven't forgotten how the Nigerian ambassador to Uganda lodged a complaint after one Ugandan minister asked if his country had become Nigeria that couldn't count how many they were. And you call that "lead Africa and Black race?"

Lead Africa - like have an international passport that instantly subjects you to untold human indignity. Well, I'll accept if by leadership you mean lead in polio, illiteracy, terrorism, almajirism, extremism, tribalism, and all other negative isms.

Its an insult to say Nigeria leads in anything positive or worth copying by other Africans. Try say that to a Ghanaian or South African, or even someone from Benin Republic, Niger, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia - you know, people from small African countries.

In case some folks missed the bus, Nigeria peaked between 1957 and 1963. From 1963 we've been going downhill and in 1966 it accelerated. Today we're just simply stuck - no movement whether in the forward or backward direction and you call that hope and leadership?

Its funny when you ask people what Nigeria problem is and the first thing you hear is "corruption!" I know I extensively wrote on this issue before and perhaps its relevant that say it again - Nigeria's problem is never corruption. People who mistook it for corruption in the beginning did so at their peril - we know how that ended. Our problem comes from our un-detachable adhesion and undiluted loyalty to our respective ethnic groups. This same problem happens in all ethnically diverse nations so Nigeria is not unique. However, the reason ours is very deadly and highly retrogressive as well as eternally counter productive is because we have three big major ethnic groups that cannot influence each other so as to effect a single and clear national direction.

In the US Blacks see things from African American angle just as whites see things from their own standpoint. The only saving-grace is that Whites outnumber Blacks and Hispanics and, therefore, can decide the direction of the country. Just wait in the next 50 years when Hispanic population catches up with Caucasians' and you'd be shocked how unlivable America might become.

Fellas, have we forgotten how GEJ's pilgrimage to Israel riled up many folks in the north, even GEJ's recent indisposition united many in the core-northern enclave. We saw how they prayed for GEJ's death, didn't we? Tell me it had nothing to do with ethnicity. Or have we forgotten how forceful OIC membership aggravated southern Christians? What about Sharia? What about Oduah's case - both for and against - tell me ethnicity didn't play a major role? think about all the arms Lebanese people have been stocking up in the north, oh you think many high caliber northerners, both military and civilians, didn't know it was happening? You think it had nothing to do with ethnicity and religion? Don't forget those Lebanese pilled up those arms during military era. Common people! What about post election violence, killings in Jos, born to rule ideology - you think they had nothing to do with one ethnic group wanting to clear the other from their natural domain?

Nothing is done in Nigeria that is not done with regards to where you come from provided the power or directive comes from Abuja, thats just the simple fact and the earlier we realized the different components of this nation are and will always be like oil and water the better for us.

And for people who're defending their grandfather's estate I ask - how many more souls shall we kill in the name of defending this estate for? Tell us.

tensor777:
But there will never ever be, nor could there ever be such a disintegration. The unity and sovereignty of Nigeria is absolutely, completely and irrevocably non-negotiable.
The sooner you disgruntled elements in the Diaspora get this very salient point the more usefully you would be able to make effective contributions to the polity.

The quote above is simply laughable. Basically you're saying you own me, you own my right to stay or opt out, you own any group that wants out - really? This is a joke because sooner or later you'll realized no one scammed you but you. Usurping another man's right is a declaration of war - who knows, perhaps you're ready for another one.

As a true Igbo son I must say that this Biafra Obsession is now like a disease.
Please try and make South East more attractive to investors, produce good leaders, security and infrastructure
So that people like me will at least come and buy land in alaigbo

@ndu_chucks

Why are you so condescending? Who the fvck are you? I'll spit in your face. Listen, I'm not kats, prof. corruption et al who address you by using "Alhaji" or whatever as a sign as respect. I don't give two fvcks about who you're offline - and I don't respect no freaking ragheaded bum.

If you want to debate, do that and don't talk to me like I'm your slave.

Boll2010:
******I'm AS COLD AS THE RUSSIAN WINTER NOW......I CHANGE MY IDEOLOGY ABOUT tHE ONE NIGERIA BUT I DESIST VIOLENCE.*******


My question is why keep a country with so much population and doesn't make any difference in the international world,people calling one nigeria what are your reasons except being kings in africa and being pawns to the world,you want to maintain the giant of africa sh!it,most populous shi!t.......come on let come out of the pretentious shell so this debate can be called a truce......austrailia is just 23million poulation which is not up to the population of lagos,they have more than enough religious populance than nigeria,they have 250 ethnic if I'm correct and they are topping the world chart in all ramifications......why keep a country that's is crawling and crippled!! Why just get big and suffer!! Come on!!!!! Let's think about the future,the unborn generation.....we still in this generation and the level of hate has increased to this level,what do we expect of the coming generations......departion is the best for the african heritage full of vast culture!!!

Here is a typical rural settings in austrailia compare to the shacks we've got here in nigeria!come on!!!!

Some people are telling you not to expect sensible responses to your questions because they believe that opinions which differ from theirs are not sensible and are inferior - I think you should ignore such small minds.

I share your very reasonable concerns but I disagree that our problems are due to high population. The federal allocation to some states is much more than many countries' GDPs, yet these states are not developed. I think the main problem with us, especially those abroad, is laziness and selfishness. We need people like you who have been to the other side to come home and show us how things should be done and participate fully in the developnment of this country. You cannot split the country up and repopulate the new 'countries' with people other than Nigerians. Think about it.

shymexx: @ndu_chucks

Why are you so condescending? Who the fvck are you? I'll spit on your face. Listen, I'm not kats, prof. corruption et al who address you by using "Alhaji" or whatever as a sign as respect. I don't give two fvcks about who're offline - and I don't respect no freaking ragheaded bum.

If you want to debate, do that and don't talk to me like I'm your slave.

Wonders shall never end, here is a boy who calls Nigerians foolish, senseless, and dumb, accusing someone else of being condescending. You get bent out of shape when confronted with the bitter truth. Your name calling has zero effect and my points have been made, deal with it.

ndu_chucks:
Wonders shall never end, here is a boy who calls Nigerians foolish, senseless, and dumb, accusing someone else of being condescending. You get bent out of shape when confronted with the bitter truth. Your name calling has zero effect and my points have been made, deal with it.

You asked question and I answered them. However, rather than debate the answers I posted logically, you turned into a rabid dog with simplistic and incoherent rebuttals laced with ad hominem attacks.

Anyway, if you want to go down that route - we can get busy. I never disrespected you, so don't disrespect me.

ndu_chucks:

Some people are telling you not to expect sensible responses to your questions because they believe that opinions which differ from theirs are nont sensible and inferior, and I think you should ignore such small minds.

I share your very reasonable concerns but I disagree that our problems are due to high population. The federal allocation to some states is much more than many countries' GDPs, yet these states are not developed. I think the main problem with us, especially those abroad, is laziness and selfishness. We need people like you who have been to the other side to come home and show us how things should be done and participate fully in the developnment of this country. You cannot split the country up and repopulate the new 'countries' with people other than Nigerians. Think about it.

ndu, give it a rest buddy.

We're sane human beings so we know what we want.
If you split the nation today South West will have a nation that, at its core, has a Yoruba outlook, national ideology, cultural similarity, and a blend of Yoruba/British/American government and educational system - I could be wrong for the simple fact that I'm not one of them. I don't assume to know what their system will look like unlike One-Nigerianists that assume to know what everyone wants.

As for Umuigbo ndi m n'eji eme onu, we know what we want which is a system of egbe bere ugo bere, a system of onye ahala nwanne ya, and a system of onye hu uzo oma ya zi nwanne ya. We shall blend our traditional democracy, values, and ideals with what I call reciprocatary foreign policy and anchor it in an export oriented economy. We shall have no business with wahabi or any extremist religion or cult. And any of our citizens that ventures into lands known to be religious hotbeds do so at his/her own peril. Our education shall not be free. It shall be paid for by responsible parents - so no free lunch for men and women who do not want to get some sleep at night.

Lest I forget - no quota system and no unity cut-off sham. You either make the grade or look for a trade. Did I forget that we will put an end to this - Igbo shall not be president, I am born to rule, we shall dip the koran into the ocean, and other nonsensical utterances that I hear everyday.

Most importantly, we shall not be threatened again with pogrom or genocide neither shall we be part of OIC and its derivatives. I want a pure secular country where no special laws apply. I want to live my life without insulting other people's sensibilities neither do I want them to insult mine. I don't have to be nervous for my brothers when a mere cartoon is drawn in far away Denmark or when some loses an election. We shall put an end to this NYSC idiocy that has been taken the lives our well trained and bright youngsters.

Ndu, those and more are what I will enjoy in a free Igbo nation, tell me what yours will be - I'm interested.

shymexx:

You asked question and I answered them. However, rather than debate the answers I posted logically, you turned into a rabid dog with simplistic and incoherent rebuttals laced with ad hominem attacks.

Anyway, if you want to go down that route - we can get busy. I never disrespected you, so don't disrespect me.

I went back over the post which bent you out of shape and found only one word which could be classified as objectionable - i.e. the word "shatap". I did not realize that emotional IQ is an issue and thought you could absorb it. I have changed "shatap" to "move on" and hope it'll make you sleep better.

My suggestion to you is to be respectful when you make negative generalizations about Nigeria or Nigerians because some of us do not take kindly to such hate speech. Devote your energy into finding ingenius solutions to some of the Nigerian problems you get so emotional about, and you may surprise yourself with real solutions which could be submitted to the authorities, or even implemented by you - don't sell yourself short.

Sam_Ikenna:

ndu, give it a rest buddy.

We're sane human beings so we know what we want.
If you split the nation today South West will have a nation that, at its core, has a Yoruba outlook, national ideology, cultural similarity, and a blend of Yoruba/British/American government and educational system - I could be wrong for the simple fact that I'm not one of them. I don't assume to know what their system will look like unlike One-Nigerianists that assume to know what everyone wants.

As for Umuigbo ndi m n'eji eme onu, we know what we want which is a system of egbe bere ugo bere, a system of onye ahala nwanne ya, and a system of onye hu uzo oma ya zi nwanne ya. We shall blend our traditional democracy, values, and ideals with what I call reciprocatary foreign policy and anchor it in an export oriented economy. We shall have no business with wahabi or any extremist religion or cult. And any of our citizens that ventures into lands known to be religious hotbeds do so at his/her own peril. Our education shall not be free. It shall be paid for by responsible parents - so no free lunch for men and women who do not want to get some sleep at night.

Lest I forget - no quota system and no unity cut-off sham. You either make the grade or look for a trade. Did I forget that we will put an end to this - Igbo shall not be president, I am born to rule, we shall dip the koran into the ocean, and other nonsensical utterances that I hear everyday.

Most importantly, we shall not be threatened again with pogrom or genocide neither shall we be part of OIC and its derivatives. I want a pure secular country where no special laws apply. I want to live my life without insulting other people's sensibilities neither do I want them to insult mine. I don't have to be nervous for my brothers when a mere cartoon is drawn in far away Denmark or when some loses an election. We shall put an end to this NYSC idiocy that has been taken the lives our well trained and bright youngsters.

Ndu, those and more are what I will enjoy in a free Igbo nation, tell me what yours will be - I'm interested.

I'm afraid that most Nigerians do not share your views above, and no serious group is suggesting spliting the country within the constitutional review process or the national conference process. I agree with you that the status quo is unacceptable, but I believe that a step towards 3 - 6 regions or states, is safer and would be less bloody.

No one wants to fight the civil war all over again, or start new wars which could kill millions more Nigerians.

ndu_chucks:

Some people are telling you not to expect sensible responses to your questions because they believe that opinions which differ from theirs are not sensible and are inferior - I think you should ignore such small minds.

I share your very reasonable concerns but I disagree that our problems are due to high population. The federal allocation to some states is much more than many countries' GDPs, yet these states are not developed. I think the main problem with us, especially those abroad, is laziness and selfishness. We need people like you who have been to the other side to come home and show us how things should be done and participate fully in the developnment of this country. You cannot split the country up and repopulate the new 'countries' with people other than Nigerians. Think about it.

in as much as I understand your point,that chopping off the head doesn't help cure headache.......but be sincere with yourself,britain colonized us but they are developed today cuz of one language,a dominance of english language,.........check out a nation like nigeria also example india.......is their any difference between the two?nah because they posses the same large number of population compared to the language!!! Imagine india still splitting into three for them to reach the little development they witnessing......yet nigeria don't want to go into atleast 3 to achieve development......no country develops with so much ethnic groups to tell ourselves the fact.......all the western countries speak the same language in the country!!!!

See shun this one nigeria fallacy and face the truth! Can't you see you only rasing point for defence of pride youngman?

ndu_chucks:

I'm afraid that most Nigerians do not share your views above, and no serious group is suggesting spliting the country within the constitutional review process or the national conference process. I agree with you that the status quo is unacceptable, but I believe that a step towards 3 - 6 regions or states, is safer and would be less bloody.

No one wants to fight the civil war all over again, or start new wars which could kill millions more Nigerians.

You're right, no one wants another civil war. We lost 20% of our population in the first one and that's enough to make any sane person lose faith in this project that claims it wants us. And to see that, even as we speak, the same kind of violent provocation is going on in the core north today with fellow Nigerians bellowing in the air and rising as smoke is depressing. Its depressing to me yet you preach that I should help change it when you haven't been able to rein in on your brothers to stop the carnage - a carnage that started in 1945.

If you can't stop the carnage who will?

I'm fed up buddy. Its time for us to pursue our individual interests. If yours is One-Nigeria then good luck.

ndu_chucks:

I'm afraid that most Nigerians do not share your views above, and no serious group is suggesting spliting the country within the constitutional review process or the national conference process. I agree with you that the status quo is unacceptable, but I believe that a step towards 3 - 6 regions or states, is safer and would be less bloody.

No one wants to fight the civil war all over again, or start new wars which could kill millions more Nigerians.

In which National Assembly can you obtain genuine constitutional ammendment, that is, political restructuring and thinning down the overempowered ccentral govt in Abuja? The National Assembly is unduly overpopulated by corenorth legislators deriving from the undue large number of states and local govt areas which IBB and Abacha littered in mostly once rural areas in core north. The corenorth has consistenly spurned every attempt to amend the 1999 constitution to make it acceptable to majority of Nigeria's federating groups. Land mass as used by IBB and Abacha to litter large numbers of states and Lgas all over core north has never been used in any other federation in the world to derive a country's federating units. Corenorth must always use its forcefully assigned false majority in the National Assembly to thwart restructuring the polity. It must continue to resist thining down the big central government system of Abuja that collects oil and VAT revenues and gives north and Abuja more than a larger and unmerited share. NATIONAL CONFERENCE? There is yet no law enabling the proposed National Conference to ensure that whatever system of governance the regions or states asked for in the conference must be respected and allowed the regions or states. And you may never obtain such a law from that National Assembly in which the corenorth that beleives it profits from the exiting structure and system unduly overpoulates. As it is now, whatever the regions want in the conference must be subjected to the same National Assembly for approval. So do you expent the northern legislators to vote to give the southern regions the more authonomy they crave? Do you expect north to let go of the preesent governance system whereby Abuja collects Oil and VAT revenues, share it among the states through which core north gets a lion share? No. So forget restructuring Nigeria in the Natiinal Assembly. In that Assmbly, the best you can have are laws that can only further enrich corenorth politically, financially and religiously, a law permitting underage marriage can easily pass, or even a law scrapping the 13% given to oil producing areas from derivation. Finally, Nigeria is not one country. There are centrifugal - tearing apart - forces coming from mostly the three major ethnic groups. You may present all the bogus arguments to forge ahead and build the country into a nation, it can never work. There are divergent ethnic, and above all, religious interests. Even Yerima Sani told a BBC reporter in 2002 that what separates the north and south of Nigeria is the absence of commonly shared values.

ndu_chucks:

Some people are telling you not to expect sensible responses to your questions because they believe that opinions which differ from theirs are not sensible and are inferior - I think you should ignore such small minds.

I share your very reasonable concerns but I disagree that our problems are due to high population. The federal allocation to some states is much more than many countries' GDPs, yet these states are not developed. I think the main problem with us, especially those abroad, is laziness and selfishness. We need people like you who have been to the other side to come home and show us how things should be done and participate fully in the developnment of this country. You cannot split the country up and repopulate the new 'countries' with people other than Nigerians. Think about it.

You will notice that I've been ignoring you on this thread. I expect you to do the same because I really don't want this thread to be derailed.

Honestly, I hated the condescending, haughty and abusive manner you entered the thread. Anyone who respects others and their opinions won't say all such to a group of people.

So far, you've been evading the issues, throwing other nebulous things into the mix and making condescending remarks about those who don't agree with your viewpoint. Must you always have your way?

You want Nigeria to be one for ever and a significant number of the people who are the human being that make up Nigeria say they are fed up with a country that has been stuck for years. How's that a problem?

The trait you've exhibited on this thread is one of the problems with Nigeria.

shymexx:

You asked question and I answered them. However, rather than debate the answers I posted logically, you turned into a rabid dog with simplistic and incoherent rebuttals laced with ad hominem attacks.

Anyway, if you want to go down that route - we can get busy. I never disrespected you, so don't disrespect me.

I ignored him then because I saw the very disrespectful manner in which he entered the thread.

So far, what fresh angle has he contributed to the debate? Mere platitudes!

Pukkah:
It is either you have deliberately turned this into a joke or you're just revelling in the nebulous and grandiose idea of Nigeria being 'invested with the leadership position in black Africa'.
What type of leadership please? How does this affect the masses? Do you want to tell this to the many Nigerians that are working hard at menial jobs in Britain or languishing in the prisons of Thailand? Honestly, inability to face reality is a major problem for many Nigerians.
Another funny idea you have put forward is that the leadership or authority is divine destiny . This is as funny as it is outlandish. And when debates go the way of the supernatural, it is wise to walk away from it.

It may sound outlandish but nevertheless it is true. Nigeria and by extension the "officer class" of Nigeria has been donned with the mantle of leadership. And yes Nnamdi Azikiwe of blessed memory was the first to recognize the signal role Nigeria has to play as the beacon of hope for the black race. And to be fair even previous military regimes have recognized this by leading the fight against apartheid and colonialism in Southern Africa to the enthronement of democratic dispensations in West Africa which has cost Nigeria much blood and treasure.
We can not in any way shape or form escape this inalienable role that destiny has equipped us to implement by way of
1)population
2)immense natural and human resources and
3)the strategic geographical positioning of Nigeria as a crossroads between East Africa and West Africa but also between North Africa and Central and Southern Africa.

ndu_chucks:
I'm afraid that most Nigerians do not share your views above, and no serious group is suggesting spliting the country within the constitutional review process or the national conference process. I agree with you that the status quo is unacceptable, but I believe that a step towards 3 - 6 regions or states, is safer and would be less bloody.
No one wants to fight the civil war all over again, or start new wars which could kill millions more Nigerians.

Actually I don't think regionalism is the way to go Ndukwe.
We need to take the bull by the horns and fully address the issue of myopic leadership in some states of the South Eastern zone. And NO I don't buy this self serving idea of post-war marginalization.
The main reason why Governance in most of these SE state is so dysfunctional is they have become massive extortion and protection rackets. That needs to be confronted directly by the people in these states.
Yet another constitutional review process or a return to regionalism won't solve that.

shymexx:
- Why's Nigeria the only country in the world where everything is done based on tribal politics and not ideology?
- What's Nigeria and what's the Nigerian identity?
Also, I remember I used to tell my boy (who's also Nigerian) to come on this forum. And his response used to be: "I can't because of clash of civilisation and mentality." I thought he was looking down on Nigerians, yet we're in the same black consciousness struggle together. This is the internet age where information is easily accessible. You know during the Obama election we both used to go on African American websites and blogs like: theGrio, theroot.com, bossip etc.. to discuss politics and black history, and we got along with them perfectly. Different experiences but they can relate to our experience, and we can relate to their. However, with Nigerians, the outlook is based on dreams, make-believe and ideals - rather than realism and practicality. I guess he was right. It's good to dream big but reality is reality - you lot need to start separating the two, if Nigeria is ever going to move forward.

I hear you. However your son is bang on the money there. There would indeed be a clash of mentality if someone is bringing a Western mindset or worldview to play in trying to grasp what Nigeria is and what it stands for.
Even Russia was described by Churchill as a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Well you could describe Nigeria as a multidimensional mystery. Even at the personal level a Nigerian is exhibiting diametric personalities depending on prevailing , existing or even anticipated circumstances. Things are hardly ever what they seem to be. Its a question of removing your Western goggles and shining your eyes to be frank.

tensor777:
Actually I don't think regionalism is the way to go.
We need to take the bull by the horns and fully address the issue of myopic leadership in some states of the South Eastern zone. And NO I don't buy this self serving idea of post-war marginalization.
The main reason why Governance in most of these SE state is so dysfunctional is they have become massive extortion and protection rackets. That needs to be confronted directly by the people in these states.
Yet another constitutional review process or a return to regionalism won't solve that.

Beleve it or not, I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that myopic leadership in many states is the real problem. That is one of the main reasons why I disagree with disintegraton which, by the way, will keep the same people and leaders in place. I do think that there is too much power in the center and the current resource control arrangement is unacceptable.

If we have 3-6 regions or states with 100% resource control of inland resources with the Feds maintaining control of offshore resorces and the ports, we should be better off. Mind you, nothing will work to 100% satisfaction until the leadership problem you mentioned is adressed.

Sam_Ikenna:

You're right, no one wants another civil war. We lost 20% of our population in the first one and that's enough to make any sane person lose faith in this project that claims it wants us. And to see that, even as we speak, the same kind of violent provocation is going on in the core north today with fellow Nigerians bellowing in the air and rising as smoke is depressing. Its depressing to me yet you preach that I should help change it when you haven't been able to rein in on your brothers to stop the carnage - a carnage that started in 1945.

If you can't stop the carnage who will?

I'm fed up buddy. Its time for us to pursue our individual interests. If yours is One-Nigeria then good luck.

The difference between you and several other millions of Nigerians is that you are fed up but they are not. We believe that we must join forces, minds, and resources to jointly solve out problems.

As far as the BH issue is concerned, you need to review Azazi's statements about who is behind BH, while you are at it, do not forget that the President himself stated that there are BH members in his government and that he would expose them - we have been waiting for him to keep his word for almost a year now. The BH issue is much more complicated than what you call a "provocation by the North".

Pukkah:

Honestly, I hated the condescending, haughty and abusive manner you entered the thread. Anyone who respects others and their opinions won't say all such to a group of people.

So far, you've been evading the issues, throwing other nebulous things into the mix and making condescending remarks about those who don't agree with your viewpoint. Must you always have your way?

You want Nigeria to be one for ever and a significant number of the people who are the human being that make up Nigeria say they are fed up with a country that has been stuck for years. How's that a problem?

The trait you've exhibited on this thread is one of the problems with Nigeria.

I don't know what issues I've ignored, please point them out. I simply disagree with the view that disintegration will solve Nigeria's problems.

You accuse me of being condescending, yet you make a very negative and condescending generalization about Nigeria, in your last sentence above. When people respond to you in kind, then you start crying foul and threatening to ignore them. If you want respect, you must respect others as well.

ndu_chucks:
The difference between you and several other millions of Nigerians is that you are fed up but they are not. We believe that we must join forces, minds, and resources to jointly solve out problems.
As far as the BH issue is concerned, you need to review Azazi's statements about who is behind BH, while you are at it, do not forget that the President himself stated that there are BH members in his government and that he would expose them - we have been waiting for him to keep his word for almost a year now. The BH issue is much more complicated than what you call a "provocation by the North".

You've absolutely nailed it with this outspoken riposte to Ikenna.
1)Some exiles say they have given up or are fed up which they have the luxury of doing whilst the overwheming majority in Nigeria and the diaspora still have faith in the Nigerian project and keep on working towards its completion.
2) Another is that some malcontents here have been making cheap political brownie points by trying to pass of the BH menace as a mere sectional uprising whereas in reality it is part of the Al-Quaeda threat across The Sahel region. There is no conspiracy theory.

Pukkah:
I ignored him then because I saw the very disrespectful manner in which he entered the thread.

So far, what fresh angle has he contributed to the debate? Mere platitudes!

I guess it's because a lot of sycophants worship him on the forum. And the few other times I conversed with him - when he isn't talking about money(which I doubt he has), he's spewing some next incoherent junk. What kind of mentality is that? The guy is more or less a troll, to be honest. Lousy, crude and empty. Very annoying as well.

tensor777:
It may sound outlandish but nevertheless it is true. Nigeria and by extension the "officer class" of Nigeria has been donned with the mantle of leadership. And yes Nnamdi Azikiwe of blessed memory was the first to recognize the signal role Nigeria has to play as the beacon of hope for the black race. And to be fair even previous military regimes have recognized this by leading the fight against apartheid and colonialism in Southern Africa to the enthronement of democratic dispensations in West Africa which has cost Nigeria much blood and treasure.
We can not in any escape this inalienable role that destiny has equipped us to implement by way of
1)population
2)immense natural and human resources and
3)the strategic geographical positioning of Nigeria as a crossroads between East Africa and West Africa but also between North Africa and Central and Southern Africa.

Pardon me Sir, I’m not here to advocate for or support Nigeria’s break up or anything else and I must first admit I am not eloquent or wise as the participants of this great debate but I am touched and in the same breath amazed at your insistence of Nigeria being “divinely chosen and destined with the leadership position of leading the Black Africa even the Black Race out of darkness into the light and thus every Nigerian of ruling class having this important divine destiny to ensure of it’s fulfillment”. And since you have stated boldly your Nigeria’s (to me meaning without Nigeria’s leadership role Apartheid would be still here) huge role in the liberation of Southern Africa as part of the affirmation to the divine throne, I would like to inlighten you to my reluctancy ( this should give you an insight to what most Southern African opinions are of Nigeria's over hyped involvement, according to us) to accept such.

I am a South African engaged for a while now to someone who is of Nigerian descent. I am well known on NL of being antagonistic against Nigerians in this forum. Honestly speaking, I never set out to be such (my initial posts would attest to this) but to acclimatize myself with my loved one’s culture and people as not to rely on the South African’s view of Nigerians. To my disappointment I experienced worse, which informed my decision out of frustration or maybe anger even, to make it my responsibility to clear Nigerians of the assumed position or delusion to undermine or underrate any other African country based on their self appointed superiority with nothing to back them on such.. I have made peace with that and am not looking for sympathy just want to ensure that I state my opinion with no pre-perceived attitudes because of the position I have consciously chosen to take on this forum.


Now getting into the matter of concern. I am child of the 80’s growing up and still living in ever changing South Africa from a very bad history of oppression. I, myself coming from a very political family have unwillingly adopted a very radical stance on issues of race and have made my business to fight with all my might the injustice of the past. As you can imagine emotions are part of baggage as I have lost loved ones in infancy. I love politics and always immense myself in issues of politics worldwide which explains why I landed on this thread. South Africans at large have been made ignorant of the outside world prior to our1994 emancipation from the oppressive apartheid government. My first encounter with Nigerians where at this period prior to that Nigeria was a country dealing with its own problems of coups d’état’s to my knowledge. Only to meet people who were coming to my country not to assimilate but to collect what they called a “payback”. In the history of my existence have only known and head about, Russians who were training ANC cadres and supplying arms AK47 and Bazookas come to mind as the remaining masses sang about those in their daily deadly protests against the militant regime, Cuban’s who physically fought the regime in Angola, Mozambique’s President who was killed by the regime for supporting the ANC, Zambian Kenneth Kaunda who was always on the news and was inhibiting the so called ANC terrorist, Tanzania, Botswana, Swaziland where my grandfather and uncle went to help liberate us. Nigerian was never mentioned and I guess to my ignorance I never read newspapers nor was I interested in news for I was only a toddler.

Coming to NL and as in SA I was always insulted about how Nigeria liberated my country to which I was enraged for I never heard of ground shaking involvement by Nigeria for to my knowledge Nigeria never lost a President, or was never bombed by the regime neither did they send troops to fight the regime as Cuba did in Angola loosing thousands of volunteers some professional but I have people I have hardly heard of on my door step collecting payback while Cuban’s Zambian’s, Mozambique n’s et al I have never came to do same, instead Cuba had send hundreds of medical doctors to help the new government and taking more than a thousand black students to train as medical doctors to empower the new black government.

My point, Nigeria being one of the African countries who had a head start on governing themselves and were never involved in a war or struggle against the settlers or colonizers as most of the African continent neither were they subjected to any wars like their counterparts, like the Mau Mau of Kenya, the freedom fighters of former Rhodesia, the Angolans, Namibians and the Zulus and Xhosa’s who fought both the English and the Boers relentlessly for 100 years until they were eventually defeated by their own superstitions more that than the gun that the white man carried loosing thousands and thousand of their people including beheading of the kings their heads being taken to London as trophies and incarcerations of their spiritual leaders, Nigeria had none of that as a head start. But failed its “ divine” mandate as you put it to play the truly expected role of a “divinely destined leadership role” yet it’s citizen are quick to collect (as result of a failing governmental system) on some miner role played by their people from the same fellow Africans they are “suppose” to lead out of darkness. To me that is absolutely not the characteristics of a continent’s leadership especially a continent as big as Africa with it’s social, military, political and economical challenges as Africa has.


Your belief that Nigeria is still to fulfill this divine calling is at least 20 years too late to be honest. And not to sound condescending and insultive, Nigeria has turned rather to be the “shame of Africa” than its messiah centric destiny. I travel a lot and even going to China is a mission, Chinese people are as confined as South Africans were during Apartheid as a result when you tell them you come from Africa, in my case they refuse to believe that because they will tell you are too polite and because I am lighter in complexion they would rather displace you as a French. They will ask if you are Nigerian as to them all Africans are Nigerians, and to them I did not fit their stereotype of an African who is in their minds a Nigerian, which is upsetting for a Pan-African like myself.
At this rate Nigeria is not even moving at a snail pace as all Africans who gained independence towards the end of the millennium are taking strides to move forward and be counted as world players economically and politically e.g. Namibia, Angola, South Africa et al. You know even snails would gather at night but try to find them in the morning they are no were to be found. So many dawns have broken and Nigeria is still at the same position even worse position they were a couple of decades ago. If you are seriously pursuing your “ divine leadership role” you might be too late for Africa has given up on waiting for the giant to awake from its slumber.

I am not sure why the likes of Shymex are receiving unforgiving bashing for not being in Nigeria, while you yourself have declared Nigeria as the savior of the “Black Race”. Is it that wrong for Shymex to be concerned about Nigerian affairs just because he does not stay there? What about Black Americans, Cuban’s, Brazilians of African decent, Jamaican’s, rest of Africans et al? Do you know most African American have decided to make South Africa their African home? Why not Nigeria as most of the African American trace their roots in West Africa? Why is Nigeria not experiencing the same immigration numbers SA is experiencing that include the late International musician Puff Johnson who had to be deported at some point who vowed to make SA her home? How long do you expect the Black Race to wait for Nigeria to get better? You cannot have it both ways it’s either you are Giant of Africa and the champion of the Black Race or you are not, if you are not then its cool but if you insist of being one let not our views be dismissed as your failure represent Africa’s failure according to you.

Lastly, if you don’t have clear plans to fix the “Giant” relinquish the position to others who are eager to lead. The rest of Africa and the Black Race are not as patient as Nigerians are. “With power comes huge responsibility”.


XOXO, SWEETCHEECKS!

..

^^^ I just read some of your posts on NL and all I feel for you is sincere pity. May God punish whoever did this to you.