macof:

Spirituality is meant to be progressive like science.

Some stories which are told to help understand these forces better have been lost, some have been updated, some have been retained.

Science as a part of life is wat spirituality has exposed but with deeper insights and much symbolism

So, why has spirituality not exposed the cure for HIV/AIDS with deeper insights.

Let me tell you what I feel. Long ago when our forefathers knew nothing about some obviously natural phenomenon, they called it whatever they wanted and attached myths and folktales to them.


It is science that is now exposing us to the intricacies and working principles of mother nature.

Ishilove:
Jesus is the anglicization of the hebrew 'Yeshua'.

Madam. Abeg explain this

Lemme explain mine

Yeshua/Yahshua/Y'hoshua (depending on your understanding of Hebrew alphabets and pronunciation)
Was the same name of Joshua.

Now tell me how and why the above name(Yeshua) was turned to Joshua in English for the Israeli Messiah who led Israel against Canaan

But the same name(Yeshua) was changed to Jesus. Pronounced "hey-zeus" by many

Hail Zeus The God of Christians

rationalmind:

I need you to clarify something before I reply. Are you actually saying for example what we call lightening in English is what yorubas refer as sango.

Oyo language Lightening is called Mona or Mona Mona
could be literally transliterated as "Light bringer"

Which is one of Sango's praises

Sango is the force that brings lightening

rationalmind:

I need you to clarify something before I reply. Are you actually saying for example what we call lightening in English is what yorubas refer as sango.

I am really sorry for been late. Just getting some power on my battery here.

Like I said on this thread, Sango is the electrical charge which cause lightening and lightening is what brings about thunder storm. I explained everything as simple as I can through analysing of oriki sango.

Furthermore on the point I had up there, we people make a big mistake when we clamour on usage of a term instead of what the term really points at.

Let me use three cases so that you can understand me better.

1. Yoruba people are found of using metaphor and symbols when describing their points. And when they want to explain a phenomena, they mostly employ personified symbolism in the best form they understand it. Lets use a drum for example.

Expression : 'Gangan fo un, o wipe...' meaning 'Gangan voiced, *it said' (*o could mean it/he/she)

Freethinker : who is Gangan?

Me : Gangan is a drum

Freethinker : When did drum got mouth that it begins to talk? This is fallacy...drum cant talk.

Me : It is metaphoric. Talking truely as defined is to communicate with spoken words. And this include mouth. Also gangan as yoruba people agree talk...they understand it.

Freethinker : You are sounding like Obadiah777 with this symbolism crap. There is nothing like drum talking. This is fairies and junk.

Me : *silent and quit*

The analogy above explain how some people think when you present them with your point.

2. Let me use Ogun the deity of Iron for another example.

If you are a yoruba, you will agree with me as Yoruba people use to pray to Ogun before travelling by car. They will say Ogun should spare them and not bath with their blood. But when there is accident....they will say Ogun bath with the person blood. One thing you should understand here is that what they are refering to Ogun is the motor itself.

In the oriki of Ogun, it is said that Ogun works whole day clearing a path through the bush. His food is sap that comes out of plant. What you should understand here is that Ogun is cutlass.

During a fight...when they struck a sword or spear into opponent body, they will say Ogun drank the opponent blood. Ogun here is the sword or spear used.

In the creation story, we learnt that Ogun shaped living being after Obatala created them. And it is also said that Ogun was clothed with blood. In science, Iron is present in blood.

Now add up the four analogies I gave together. Motor, sword, cutlass and the iron in blood are all chemical element called Iron. So in real sense, if Ogun is mentioned in spiritual sense, it mean chemical element called Iron in science sense.

3. I can proceed from here and say Ishilove have received a warmth hug from Olokun. This does not mean half human- half fish creature is hugging her. Olokun represent body of water, beauty, womanhood, motherhood, arts, culture, poetry, love, marriage, femininity and fertility. There Ishilove is very good in writing poem, without seeing her, I sense she is beautiful....and everybody wanna marry her. I can list them.....lol.

Now, if any atheist (christians and muslims got a long way to go) come up without understanding a concept that the Orisa I listed are myth and fairies. I will just shook my head and blast them. I expect them to understand this deity concept from pantheism angle.

And I think God is not the best translate for Orisa. When you mention God, most people are driven toward a monster that walk behind the wind with a big belly who kill people around. Orisa are not skydaddy. In english...Orisa mean Selected Consciousness. So I still find it difficult to see Consciousness as monster.

It is said that the king are deputy of Orisa....yet, twins are Orisa. It is even believed that ones mother is Orisa. And most of, your own consciousness is your Orisa.
- Kings cant bow for twin because they are regarded to as Orisa.
- Ones mother is not a skymama.
- and am not transcending because am Orisa.

Yet, everything in universe including the universe itself is conscious. So if it within, Orisa are natural forces/energy. The tangible thing around us are energy. Therefore, it nothing wrong if they personified this force to explain to other in the simplest way.

Conclusively, like I explained using the Oriki of Sango and it patakis, Sango is the electrical charges that produces lightening. The same electrical charges is what spark thunder storm and what keeps our body alive.

And as per your quest....some people call Sango when lightening appear or Thunder strike. Thunder is Ara in Yoruba which Lightening is Mona-mona.

I think I answer you right?

FOLYKAZE:

I am really sorry for been late. Just getting some power on my battery here.

Like I said on this thread, Sango is the electrical charge which cause lightening and lightening is what brings about thunder storm. I explained everything as simple as I can through analysing of oriki sango.

Furthermore on the point I had up there, we people make a big mistake when we clamour on usage of a term instead of what the term really points at.

Let me use three cases so that you can understand me better.

1. Yoruba people are found of using metaphor and symbols when describing their points. And when they want to explain a phenomena, they mostly employ personified symbolism in the best form they understand it. Lets use a drum for example.

Expression : 'Gangan fo un, o wipe...' meaning 'Gangan voiced, *it said' (*o could mean it/he/she)

Freethinker : who is Gangan?

Me : Gangan is a drum

Freethinker : When did drum got mouth that it begins to talk? This is fallacy...drum cant talk.

Me : It is metaphoric. Talking truely as defined is to communicate with spoken words. And this include mouth. Also gangan as yoruba people agree talk...they understand it.

Freethinker : You are sounding like Obadiah777 with this symbolism crap. There is nothing like drum talking. This is fairies and junk.

Me : *silent and quit*

The analogy above explain how some people think when you present them with your point.

2. Let me use Ogun the deity of Iron for another example.

If you are a yoruba, you will agree with me as Yoruba people use to pray to Ogun before travelling by car. They will say Ogun should spare them and not bath with their blood. But when there is accident....they will say Ogun bath with the person blood. One thing you should understand here is that what they are refering to Ogun is the motor itself.

In the oriki of Ogun, it is said that Ogun works whole day clearing a path through the bush. His food is sap that comes out of plant. What you should understand here is that Ogun is cutlass.

During a fight...when they struck a sword or spear into opponent body, they will say Ogun drank the opponent blood. Ogun here is the sword or spear used.

In the creation story, we learnt that Ogun shaped living being after Obatala created them. And it is also said that Ogun was clothed with blood. In science, Iron is present in blood.

Now add up the four analogies I gave together. Motor, sword, cutlass and the iron in blood are all chemical element called Iron. So in real sense, if Ogun is mentioned in spiritual sense, it mean chemical element called Iron in science sense.

3. I can proceed from here and say Ishilove have received a warmth hug from Olokun. This does not mean half human- half fish creature is hugging her. Olokun represent body of water, beauty, womanhood, motherhood, arts, culture, poetry, love, marriage, femininity and fertility. There Ishilove is very good in writing poem, without seeing her, I sense she is beautiful....and everybody wanna marry her. I can list them.....lol.

Now, if any atheist (christians and muslims got a long way to go) come up without understanding a concept that the Orisa I listed are myth and fairies. I will just shook my head and blast them. I expect them to understand this deity concept from pantheism angle.

And I think God is not the best translate for Orisa. When you mention God, most people are driven toward a monster that walk behind the wind with a big belly who kill people around. Orisa are not skydaddy. In english...Orisa mean Selected Consciousness. So I still find it difficult to see Consciousness as monster.

It is said that the king are deputy of Orisa....yet, twins are Orisa. It is even believed that ones mother is Orisa. And most of, your own consciousness is your Orisa.
- Kings cant bow for twin because they are regarded to as Orisa.
- Ones mother is not a skymama.
- and am not transcending because am Orisa.

Yet, everything in universe including the universe itself is conscious. So if it within, Orisa are natural forces/energy. The tangible thing around us are energy. Therefore, it nothing wrong if they personified this force to explain to other in the simplest way.

Conclusively, like I explained using the Oriki of Sango and it patakis, Sango is the electrical charges that produces lightening. The same electrical charges is what spark thunder storm and what keeps our body alive.

And as per your quest....some people call Sango when lightening appear or Thunder strike. Thunder is Ara in Yoruba which Lightening is Mona-mona.

I think I answer you right?

Well, you tried your best but there are still several questions left unanswered. Your answer is similar to that of christians whom without a single shred of evidence, claim God produced this or produced that.

And you they try with these long messages o. How do you manage to type them

macof:

Oyo language Lightening is called Mona or Mona Mona
could be literally transliterated as "Light bringer"

Which is one of Sango's praises

Sango is the force that brings lightening

Rationalmind. Let me add up to what Macof wrote there.

Excerpt of Oriki Sango:

Sango Oko Oya
Onibon Orun

Translation :

Sango the husband of Oya
The gun man of heaven (sky)

Sango is electrical charge. Oya is a cloud or wind.

Modern science today tells us that lightening is produced by static electricity in the clouds caused by the friction of the water vapor blowing past it's self. When the static charge is great enough to arc from cloud to cloud or from the clouds to the ground, lightening is produced. Simply put, negative and positive surges meet at the clouds which form lightning. Thunder on the other hand is just the super loud noise created when the lightening rapidly super heats the air around it causeing the air to expand creating a localized area of low pressure, when the force of the atmospheric pressure slams this low pressure area closed again the air crashes aginst it's self causing loud vibrations.

'Gunman in the sky' refers to thunder sound. It deafening just a gun.

Oya is cloud personified as marrying Sango. Do you find any relativeness and or does it make sense now to you? I will like to read your thought on this.

Ok, I think I get your point. The electrical charges is what you call sango

rationalmind:

Well, you tried your best but there are still several questions left unanswered. Your answer is similar to that of christians whom without a single shred of evidence, claim God produced this or produced that.

And you they try with these long messages o. How do you manage to type them

lol. I can do anything...no matter how boring it is when am listening to fela song. I dont know why it always him.

Lets start with this question. How did my answer indicate anything like 'God produces' or you just feel to add that up here?

The premises of my argument or point should be where question you ask sprang from. I cant be answering on a subject and you move me to another one. Mehn that will be boring I swell.

To answer your question. I will advise you read the link I gave you. Yoruba Spirituality is a classic naturalistic pantheism. I explain Eledumare there as Cosmo singularity. I am God. You are a God. Everything in the universe is God. Nature is God. You cant go beyond nature. So firstly, I need to clarify what you mean by God before I can answer your question. If you mean sky daddy or imaginary beings, abeg I dont have answer. But if you mean Nature.....yes God produces thing. Everything we do are allowed because we are self-conscious nature and are in the matrix of natural laws. If you do something here, it because nature allow it. So in this case, God produces is correct and make sense to me. And am sorry, I cant help on skydaddy or monsters living in the wind if that is what you refer to as God.

rationalmind: Ok, I think I get your point. The electrical charges is what you call sango

There are more to this o. I only give naturalistic side of it. My AA friend will proceed beyond this explanation because she is more versed and initiated. I remember she once told me Sango is the electric flow transmitting signals from the brain to other body system. She called brain heaven and stomach earth. Lol.

If Okanran meji appeared when you are divining, are you going to say the person should be careful of electric shock or thunder strike because that Odu speaks of Sango? Lol

So there are more to it. I only gave the naturalistic explanation. I wish I have visited Igbodu where all Orisa would manifest before my consciousness. I will know what is what by then.

See...been an Ifa priest is not a joke.

rationalmind:

So, why has spirituality not exposed the cure for HIV/AIDS with deeper insights.

Let me tell you what I feel. Long ago when our forefathers knew nothing about some obviously natural phenomenon, they called it whatever they wanted and attached myths and folktales to them.


It is science that is now exposing us to the intricacies and working principles of mother nature.

Wrong. There are 'Alo' myth separate. And there are facts.

Science evolved out of Spirituality. If you understand the concept of spirituality, you would know that spirituality is greater than science. Spirituality is infinte while science is a finite boundary which give a clearer picture to the infinity.

Let me use numbering for my analogy.

1 2 3 4 5
when you count 1, 2 follows.
But if you look within.... There is 1.100012359...till eternity and 1.987519.....till eternity both between 1 and 2.

Figure 1 and 2 is the finite boundary which picture the infiniteness between them. This explain spirituality and science. You cant lie on this, most of the invention of today were built on old layout and nature. Am wrong?

HIV medicine on production from spirituality which you asked for shows how you are close and weak minded. Is spirituality a person or act of investigation and connectedness with environ? Yoruba people says....ogun ti o shise, ewe re ni ko pe meaning the medicine that doesnt work implies that the leaf added together is not complete. I believe HIV cure is in the bush....who is going to find it?

Maybe we should consult Osanyin...the deity who owns herb and plants lol. But I know the remedy is there. You go and search or encourage Onisegun so that you work together on it. If you want to sleep at home expecting Spirituality to bring medicine...am sorry, Oyo lowa

In one of the stories told by Ife people

Aramfe: ancient Ife name for Sango, as Oyo called him Jakuta

Aramfe was the brother and companion of Obarese

Obarese is the Orisha of Rain

lightening is the companion of rain.

These are not myths but facts

macof: In one of the stories told by Ife people

Aramfe: ancient Ife name for Sango, as Oyo called him Jakuta

Aramfe was the brother and companion of Obarese

Obarese is the Orisha of Rain

lightening is the companion of rain.

These are not myths but facts

Guy....I really love this. I got much to learn from you. Serious

Most Atheist here get their point about Orisa from movie and general tradition which is condensed. They claim to REASON....they would have seen this if truely they reason. But like the brainwashed beholder of Abrahamic faith, they only see Monsters walking around town. Lol

@atheists, food for thought.
"Newton's scientific
work may have been of lesser
personal importance to him, as he
placed emphasis on rediscovering
the occult wisdom of the ancients. In
this sense, some [1] believe that any
reference to a "Newtonian Worldview"
as being purely mechanical in nature
is somewhat inaccurate."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies

hunter2,1:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies

Hmmmm. Have been reading into Occult science since yesternight. This is eye opening.

Qualification of many posters with this word DELUSION and it's derivatives like DELUSIONAL, DELUDE, DELUDED, DELUSORY etc.

FOLYKAZE: Atheism - Especially the professionals 'bark at' set. They never see anything good back home. They always want to live like Americans and Europeans who enslaved their ancestors. They are quick to call their ancestors dump folks. Hardly can you see them arguing without reference to white men who have changed his own history and identity. They accept Evolution but cant see the Intelligence inferiority evolution portray about blacks.

Christianity - This only applies to the extremist and fanatics. Foolishness starts when a person connect his History with Israel. They curse their ancestors and flow with the current cooked fantasy by jewish teachers. How can African claim to be the heir of Abraham? Another set claimed life start from middle east. They bond their ancestors, brothers and sisters to hell because they dont believe in Jesus (hail zeus). The ideology of hating your family for taking different doctrine. Hmmm

Islam - What more can I say about person that admit he is a slave? This madness covers the whole Nigeria. Hausa history has been eradicated and replaced with Arab proportion. The Yoruba among them are now claiming they are from mecca. The bloodiness, discrimination against women (they are first class animal). In the same land, they curse their ancestors and lost their identity.

In fela voice : when are we going to free from every form of slavery?

The three listed religion and secular movement is a Kolonial Mentality


Moving out with Fela - Why Black Man Dey Suffer

Why Blackman dey suffer today
Why Blackman no get money today
Why Blackman no go for moon today
This is the reason why (tell me now; tell me again)
We dey sit down for our land jeje
We dey mind our business jeje
Some people come from far away land
Dem fight us and take our land
Dem take our people and spoil our towns
Na since then trouble starti o (hun, hun; one more time)
Our riches dem take away to their land
In return dem give us their colony
Dem take our culture away from us
Dem give us dem culture we no understand
Black people we no know ourselves
We no know our ancestral heritage
We dey fight each other everyday
We’re never together; we’re never together at all
That is why Blackman dey suffer today

This is simply the truth..

This shows that atheism are no different from the other religious sect in the aspect of slicking the white mans as.ss..

joel lala:



This is simply the truth..

This shows that atheism are no different from the other religious sect in the aspect of slicking the white mans as.ss..

lol, that awkward moment when a Christian agrees with folykaze

Mr Troll: lol, that awkward moment when a Christian agrees with folykaze

And you can say that to rationalmind who agrees with a christian rapture-ready. Lol.

FOLYKAZE:

And you can say that to rationalmind who agrees with a christian rapture-ready. Lol.

FOLYKAZE:

And you can say that to rationalmind who agrees with a christian rapture-ready. Lol.

But seriously guy, do you understand what atheism really means?

Mr Troll:

But seriously guy, do you understand what atheism really means?

Disbelief in foreign gods.

aManFromMars:
Disbelief in foreign gods.

aManFromMars:
Disbelief in foreign gods.

craze man.

Mr Troll:

But seriously guy, do you understand what atheism really means?

Disbelief in God/gods. Then the question that should follow is what concept of God/gods are you holding your disbelief on? This thread deals with that https://www.nairaland.com/1457170/atheist.....what-concept-god-disbelief and you might tell us here too.

FOLYKAZE:

Disbelief in God/gods. Then the question that should follow is what concept of God/gods are you holding your disbelief on? This thread deals with that https://www.nairaland.com/1457170/atheist.....what-concept-god-disbelief and you might tell us here too.

all. All supernatural omni omni beings irrespective of religion and place.

Mr Troll: all. All supernatural omni omni beings irrespective of religion and place.

The Irunmole are not beings
They are Energies that manifest as forces of universal existence

Mr Troll: all. All supernatural omni omni beings irrespective of religion and place.

I am sorry, I dont belief in that. Yoruba Orisa are not beings but energies.

macof:

The Irunmole are not beings
They are Energies that manifest as forces of universal existence

I just tire for mr troll o. He only wants to see the false knowledge he had been feed.

FOLYKAZE:

I just tire for mr troll o. He only wants to see the false knowledge he had been feed.

What are you saying?

Mr Troll:

What are you saying?

Firstly there is nothing like omnis among Orisas
Secondly, they are not supernatural beings
Thirdly, I dont see yoruba spirituality as Religion.

The supernatural and omni beings you want to see are what you either watched in movie or the oral tradition which are condensed and what I called false knowledge. How many time do you want me to explain Sango as Electrical charge or Yemoja as Icy comet? I purposely do that on a thread yet you all want to see a tall guy that breathe fire abi na half fish half human?.

FOLYKAZE:

Firstly there is nothing like omnis among Orisas
Secondly, they are not supernatural beings
Thirdly, I dont see yoruba spirituality as Religion.

The supernatural and omni beings you want to see are what you either watched in movie or the oral tradition which are condensed and what I called false knowledge. How many time do you want me to explain Sango as Electrical charge or Yemoja as Icy comet? I purposely do that on a thread yet you all want to see a tall guy that breathe fire abi na half fish half human?.

I see you like fighting.

First, I wasn't referring specifically to the Yoruba traditional religion. I said ALL and then put being in bold.

Secondly, many ifa adherents will disagree with you considering that they worship whatever it is they consider orisa to be. It will be quite absurd to worship, say, gravity.

So what exactly do pagans like macof do?