trustman:

Only the Bible gives the final word on any matter or issue, therefore the Christian must ‘test every spirit’ with the Word of God. Only then can he hope to escape error or outright deception.

mbaemeka:

Beware of Dogs! For they are not outside the church but inside.

trustman:

What are the characteristics of dogs?
Who best exemplify such today?
Do the WoF proponents best fit into these?

trustman:
Can godly Christians fall sick? –
Philippians 2: 25-26 “But for now I have considered it necessary to send Epaphroditus to you. For he is my brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. Indeed, he greatly missed all of you and was distressed because you heard that he had been ill.”

Does God have the sole prerogative to heal? –
Philippians 2: 27 “In fact he became so ill that he nearly died. But God showed mercy to him—and not to him only, but also to me—so that I would not have grief on top of grief.”

Is the motivation to give to God to be tied to reaping financial rewards? Is seed-faith in the Bible? –
Acts 20: 29-30 “I know that after I am gone fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Even from among your own group men will arise, teaching perversions of the truth to draw the disciples away after them.”
2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one of you should give just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, because God loves a cheerful giver.”
2 Corinthians 8:8 “I am not saying this as a command, but I am testing the genuineness of your love by comparison with the eagerness of others.”

Can miracles be fake or be from the devil? –
2 Thessalonians 2:9 “The arrival of the lawless one will be by Satan’s working with all kinds of miracles and signs and false wonders”

Is “making heaven” less important than physical wellbeing? –
Mark 9:45-47 “If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off! It is better to enter life lame than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out! It is better to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell”

On God and abundance –
1 Timothy 6: 6-10 “ Now godliness combined with contentment brings great profit. For we have brought nothing into this world and so we cannot take a single thing out either. But if we have food and shelter, we will be satisfied with that. Those who long to be rich, however, stumble into temptation and a trap and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.”

On speaking evil against authorities and breaking ranks
- What is evil?
- Should ‘works of darkness’ be exposed?

Evil is first and foremost the policy (the overall plan and definite course of action) of Satan. Legalism, (excessive conformity to law or rules – dos and don’ts), socialism, communism, etc fall into this. It is the thinking of Satan as opposed to the mind of Christ – the Bible truths about God’s own policy.
Colossians 2: 8 – “Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.”
On the other hand God’s policy toward man is always GRACE.

The Bible enjoins Christians to take hard stance on occasions –
2 John 1: 10-11 “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting, because the person who gives him a greeting shares in his evil deeds.”
Jude 3b – “that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”

What are the characteristics of dogs?
Who best exemplify such today?
Do the WoF proponents best fit into these?

Image123:
So after your test, Are you against fake healing schools or against healing school? They are two different things i think. Or it's simply the name it is called that bugs you?

John Graham Lake (March 18, 1870 – September 16, 1935), usually known as John G. Lake, was a Canadian–American leader in the Pentecostal movement that began in the early 20th century, and is known as a faith healer, missionary, and with Thomas Hezmalhalch, co-founder of the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa. Through his 1908–13 African missionary work, Lake played a decisive role in the spread of Pentecostalism in southern Africa, the most successful southern African religious movement of the 20th century.[1]:98[2]:34 After completing his missionary work in Africa, Lake evangelized for 20 years, primarily along the west coast of the United States setting up "healing rooms" and healing campaigns, and establishing churches. Lake was influenced by the healing ministry of John Alexander Dowie and the ministry of Charles Parham.

Lake was born in St. Mary's, Ontario, Canada and moved to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan with his family in 1886.[4] He was born into a large family of 15 siblings (eight of whom died young).[5] He graduated from high school in St Mary's shortly before the move to Michigan, and claimed to have been ordained into the Methodist ministry at the age of twenty-one.[4] The seminary he claimed to have attended, though, never existed,[6]:53, and census records show he had less than ten years' education.[7] Lake, then, had no formal theological training.

Lake moved to a suburb of Chicago, Harvey, in 1890, where he worked as a roofer and construction worker before returning to his hometown in 1896. According to Lake, he became an industrious businessman and started two newspapers, the Harvey Citizen in Harvey, Illinois and the Soo Times in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan,[4] before beginning a successful career in real estate, and later, becoming a millionaire in life insurance dealings. Historian Barry Morton found no evidence that Lake ever owned the two newspapers, citing sources which indicate the Harvey Citizen was founded by the Harvey township,[8] and the Soo Times was started by George A. Ferris and owned by Ferris & Scott Publishers.[1]:103[9]:394[10] Morton further alleges that Lake exaggerated his business career, and that "clear evidence" shows Lake instead worked as a small-scale contractor, roofer and "house-flipper".[1]:103. In the 1900 Census, Lake's occupation is listed as "carpenter".[11] In February 1893, Lake married Jennie Stevens of Newberry, Michigan, and the two had six children and adopted another before her death in 1908. During the 1890s Lake and many members of his family began appearing regularly in Dowie's services, where they were invariably healed and allegedly brought back from death's door. In 1898 Lake opened a small chapter of Dowie's Christian Catholic Church in Sault Ste Marie and held meetings in the attic of his parents' home. In 1901 he relocated his family to Zion, Illinois, where he worked in the theocratic town's construction department.

After massive retrenchments affected ever-bankrupt Zion City,[12] Lake found new employment around 1905. He later claimed that he maintained relationships with many of the leading figures of his day including railroad tycoon James Jerome Hill, Cecil Rhodes, Mahatma Gandhi, Arthur Conan Doyle, and others.[13][14] When he began his preaching career he claimed to have walked away from a $50,000 year salary (around $1.25 million in 2007 US dollars[15]), as well as his seat on the Chicago Board of Trade. Lake's biographer, Burpeau, reported no evidence outside of Lake's own assertions that Lake was connected to these wealthy financiers and industrialists.[6] According to Morton, contemporary records show Lake never left Zion City at the time Lake was said to be making his name in Chicago; he instead worked in nearby Waukegan as an "ordinary, small-town insurance salesman". Lake does not appear in contemporary newspapers until 1907 where he gave an account of his experience of speaking in tongues.[1]:105 In 1907 Lake was converted to Pentecostalism when Charles Parham staged a tent revival in Zion in an attempt to woo Dowie's supporters. After Parham's departure a group of several hundred "Parhamites" remained in Zion, led by Thomas Hezmalhalch—a recent arrival from the Azusa Street Revival. As 1907 wore on, Lake grew in stature among this group, and was usually listed as co-leader. After Parham's arrest for pedophilia in the summer of 1907, the Parhamites descended into a collective frenzy. Believing that many had been possessed by demons, a number of brutal exorcisms began, in which at least two deaths occurred.[16][17] In the face of arrests and potential mob violence, the Parhamites were forced to flee en masse from Illinois. Lake and Hezmalhalch left for Indianapolis. Once there, they raised $2000 to finance a Pentecostal mission to South Africa.
Missionary work in Africa

With Thomas Hezmalhalch, Lake founded the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa (AFM) in 1908 and carried on missionary work from 1908-13. Lake and Hezmalhalch would appear to be the first Pentecostal missionaries to South Africa, and introduced speaking in tongues. Many of those who joined their church had previously been Zionists allied to Dowie's organization who believed in faith healing. Morton writes [1]:98, "Lake was instrumental in spreading this fusion of Zionism/Pentecotalism that is unique to southern Africa... about half of southern African Christians today [2012] are adherents of it... Lake played a decisive role in the spreading of this 'second evangelization'." Lake's movement attracted many of the early Zionists led by Pieter L. Le Roux of Wakkerstroom[18]:15. Due to the segregationist impulses of the AFM's white membership,[19] the majority of its African members eventually seceded, forming many different Zionist Christian sects.[citation needed]

Just six months after Lake's arrival in South Africa, his first wife, Jennie, died on December 22, 1908.[3] Lake recorded that she died of a stroke. He continued his work in Africa for another four years, raising his seven children with the help of his sister Irene.[3]

Lake's ministry in South Africa was not without controversy. Morton writes[1]:114–15 that Lake was accused of: misappropriating the AFM's funds, particularly that funds did not flow to poor rural areas but were concentrated with Lake and his party; acting dictatorially; exaggerating the effectiveness of the revival movement he led; and staging miraculous healings through audience plants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Lake

nora544:

a real christian need no healing school,

Why you need a healing school.

This comes only from this fake movment to make money not more

mbaemeka:

[size=5pt]Should a Godly Christian heal the sick? If yes, where are your healings? If No, did Jesus lie?

Why can't you pray and watch a sick person get healed like Paul and all the other believers did?



You should do well to show me where Jesus taught us to Pray to God to heal the sick. When you fail to do so I will show you 3 instances where he told us (by Us now I mean Christians) to heal the sick. Afterall, he said Speak to the mountain and not speak to God about the mountain so that it will move.



There are many reasons in scripture for giving and each and every one of them ends with the same outcome- that there will be a harvest/reward. I didn't say so- God said so himself. It is by FAITH that we understand that God is a REWARDER of THOSE that seek him DILIGENTLY.

Whether I give out of love for God or love for people's praises there would still be a reward- the former by God and the latter by men. The keyword is "reward" and it is inevitable.

When Elijah asked the widow of Zarephath to "sow" her last meal into his life did he do it to-

1. Steal from her?
2. Prosper her?

Remember God was already feeding him before he sent him to her. Now, interestingly Jesus refers to the same story and adds another caveat: That there were many other "suffering" widows (Emphasis mine) in Zarepath but to only her was Elijah sent. Care to know why? Because she was the only one sure to respond. I am sure to you and your ilk Elijah was a thief feeding on the poor widows mite.



There are 2 schools of thought to this:

- The miracles are fake/ stage-managed
- They are wrought by evil powers.

When school one has been refuted they jump to school two. (They- Dogs!)

Has the "lawless one" arrived?

How could Peter, John and co discern if Paul was the prophesied "lawless one", after all he performed alot of signs and wonders?

I put it to you that there is a greater probability we would find more fake christians and evilworkers amongst those who do not have the necessary signs that Jesus said should follow those that believe than otherwise. Or is Satan more powerful than God?

Jesus called himself The Resurrection thereby letting us know that The resurrection is not a day or an event but a Person. That is why whenever he showed up at any funeral it changed to a celebration. He specializes in raising dead things (Dead cells, dead bones, health, Bodies etc.) So if Jesus is present at your gatherings these things ought to be happening regularly.

Since they don't, we can safely conclude that Jesus is never at any of such gatherings. What a gathering!



You should have gone to heaven immediately you got saved. Why are you still here? I mean, it is this type of selfish mentality that should be done away with in Christianity. One man died for all so that they that live should live for others and not for themselves. What have you done about the sick and poor around you (assuming you are not one of them)?



Thank you for telling us about contentment but your version is garnished with self. I am kingdom minded- I give for the expansion of God's kingdom on earth via evangelism: TV, Radio, Internet etc., I give to the poor as well and I am prospering on all sides without even praying for it. The money that you worship I treat like exactly what it is- my slave. They don't print bibles with the blood of Jesus- they are printed with money!

Please be satisfied with only your food and shelter and maybe for those of your immediate family. You are such a godly christian.



I will tell you what deceitful philosophy is as well as "elemental spirits of the world". It is any teaching that glorifies worldly principles over God's word. "Scientific attachment of detached ears, artificial eyes and so on is what Jesus meant by Believers will do greater miracles than he". We can prosper anyhow we like without God, he has nothing to do with it. We can call ourselves any names we like; say what we feel like saying irrespective of what God's word says;Christians can fall sick anyhow they choose- it is normal; Jesus didn't die for our diseases etc.

You make reference to Paul and Jude but these 2 will deny you when the time comes. Paul is the one who warned us about dogs that speak evil against authorities- Paul disrespected the high priest once and as soon as he was informed about the man's status he quickly apologized and gave a reason for doing so (Go and find out what his reason was). Jude taught us about how archangel Micheal couldn't disrespect even Satan while "contending" for the body of Moses. He respected the higher authority Satan had at the time.

Whether your cause is just or not God expects you to follow due process.

I believe any one who can use his tongue to count his teeth should be able to answer such now.[/size]

DrummaBoy:
1

Candour:
2

trustman:
3

BabaGnoni:
4

mbaemeka:

Should a Godly Christian heal the sick? If yes, where are your healings? If No, did Jesus lie?

Why can't you pray and watch a sick person get healed like Paul and all the other believers did?

You should do well to show me where Jesus taught us to Pray to God to heal the sick. When you fail to do so I will show you 3 instances where he told us (by Us now I mean Christians) to heal the sick. Afterall, he said Speak to the mountain and not speak to God about the mountain so that it will move.

There are many reasons in scripture for giving and each and every one of them ends with the same outcome- that there will be a harvest/reward. I didn't say so- God said so himself. It is by FAITH that we understand that God is a REWARDER of THOSE that seek him DILIGENTLY.

Whether I give out of love for God or love for people's praises there would still be a reward- the former by God and the latter by men. The keyword is "reward" and it is inevitable.

When Elijah asked the widow of Zarephath to "sow" her last meal into his life did he do it to-

1. Steal from her?
2. Prosper her?

Remember God was already feeding him before he sent him to her. Now, interestingly Jesus refers to the same story and adds another caveat: That there were many other "suffering" widows (Emphasis mine) in Zarepath but to only her was Elijah sent. Care to know why? Because she was the only one sure to respond. I am sure to you and your ilk Elijah was a thief feeding on the poor widows mite.

There are 2 schools of thought to this:

- The miracles are fake/ stage-managed
- They are wrought by evil powers.

When school one has been refuted they jump to school two. (They- Dogs!)

Has the "lawless one" arrived?

How could Peter, John and co discern if Paul was the prophesied "lawless one", after all he performed alot of signs and wonders?

I put it to you that there is a greater probability we would find more fake christians and evilworkers amongst those who do not have the necessary signs that Jesus said should follow those that believe than otherwise. Or is Satan more powerful than God?

Jesus called himself The Resurrection thereby letting us know that The resurrection is not a day or an event but a Person. That is why whenever he showed up at any funeral it changed to a celebration. He specializes in raising dead things (Dead cells, dead bones, health, Bodies etc.) So if Jesus is present at your gatherings these things ought to be happening regularly.

Since they don't, we can safely conclude that Jesus is never at any of such gatherings. What a gathering!

You should have gone to heaven immediately you got saved. Why are you still here? I mean, it is this type of selfish mentality that should be done away with in Christianity. One man died for all so that they that live should live for others and not for themselves. What have you done about the sick and poor around you (assuming you are not one of them)?

Thank you for telling us about contentment but your version is garnished with self. I am kingdom minded- I give for the expansion of God's kingdom on earth via evangelism: TV, Radio, Internet etc., I give to the poor as well and I am prospering on all sides without even praying for it. The money that you worship I treat like exactly what it is- my slave. They don't print bibles with the blood of Jesus- they are printed with money!

Please be satisfied with only your food and shelter and maybe for those of your immediate family. You are such a godly christian.

I will tell you what deceitful philosophy is as well as "elemental spirits of the world". It is any teaching that glorifies worldly principles over God's word. "Scientific attachment of detached ears, artificial eyes and so on is what Jesus meant by Believers will do greater miracles than he". We can prosper anyhow we like without God, he has nothing to do with it. We can call ourselves any names we like; say what we feel like saying irrespective of what God's word says;Christians can fall sick anyhow they choose- it is normal; Jesus didn't die for our diseases etc.

You make reference to Paul and Jude but these 2 will deny you when the time comes. Paul is the one who warned us about dogs that speak evil against authorities- Paul disrespected the high priest once and as soon as he was informed about the man's status he quickly apologized and gave a reason for doing so (Go and find out what his reason was). Jude taught us about how archangel Micheal couldn't disrespect even Satan while "contending" for the body of Moses. He respected the higher authority Satan had at the time.

Whether your cause is just or not God expects you to follow due process.

I believe any one who can use his tongue to count his teeth should be able to answer such now.

therealMcCain:

Sincerely speaking u guys are confusing me!!

Question 1:How then can a Christian act on those verses?? It's usage & application

I wasn't there when the bible was written, after careful study I find that all those who gave to the poor, gave to the prophets got blessed or received supernatural interventions

Based on these cases, I then decide to be a giver because I found out that all those that gave got blessed, are u saying God almighty will frown upon this

I know In Christianity there is always a more excellent way, so u can tell me that the more excellent way is to give out of love but to tell me that the man who decides to act on these scriptures is doing wrong or it's not going to work for him, is something I'm finding difficult to come to terms with

Note: i also know in the bible, There were cases of those who got supernatural intervention without giving

Question2: Act 10 talked about Cornelius, whose prayers & alms went up to God

I'm yet to see a very rich unbeliever who doesn't give to the poor & needy, you think it's becos of agape love? It's becos they have found out that there is something about giving

Even occultist gives, why do they give?

So what can a Christian glean from the above?

therealMcCain:


Sincerely speaking u guys are confusing me!!

Question 1:How then can a Christian act on those verses?? It's usage & application

I wasn't there when the bible was written, after careful study I find that all those who gave to the poor, gave to the prophets got blessed or received supernatural interventions

Based on these cases, I then decide to be a giver because I found out that all those that gave got blessed, are u saying God almighty will frown upon this

I know In Christianity there is always a more excellent way, so u can tell me that the more excellent way is to give out of love but to tell me that the man who decides to act on these scriptures is doing wrong or it's not going to work for him, is something I'm finding difficult to come to terms with


Note: i also know in the bible, There were cases of those who got supernatural intervention without giving

Question2: Act 10 talked about Cornelius, whose prayers & alms went up to God

I'm yet to see a very rich unbeliever who doesn't give to the poor & needy, you think it's becos of agape love? It's becos they have found out that there is something about giving

Even occultist gives, why do they give?

So what can a Christian glean from the above?

Image123:

okay you're against a healing school? i don't get your John Lake quote, are you saying that he started healing schools?

After a year of itinerant preaching, Lake relocated to Spokane, WA by September 1914 and began ministering in "The Church of Truth". He started an organization called The Divine Healing Institute and opened what he called "Lake's Divine Healing Rooms". Lake ran the "healing rooms" from 1915 until May 1920, at which time he moved to Portland, Oregon, for a similar ministry that lasted for another five years. He continued to found churches and "healing rooms" down the California coast and eventually to Houston, TX in 1927, before finally returning to Spokane in 1931. Upon his return to Spokane he purchased an old church and began his final church and healing room

trustman:
1. Miracles were not everyday occurrences in the time of Elijah. What does this tell you?
2. Read the book of Acts. Miracles were performed majorly by the apostles to authenticate their calling. What does this tell you?
3. Is Philippians 2: 25-26 true? "But for now I have considered it necessary to send Epaphroditus to you. For he is my brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. Indeed, he greatly missed all of you and was distressed because you heard that he had been ill."
Here is: a brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. And he was sick. With the apostle's knowledge. What does that tell you?
4. No one here is saying that we should not pray for the sick. The Bible has examples and instructions on praying for needs including healing from sickness.
5. The promise of rewards for Christian service is not necessarily tied to the here and now - Matthew 5: 11-12 "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way".
Luke 6: 35 "But love your enemies, and [size=13pt]do good, and lend, expecting nothing back[/size]. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to ungrateful and evil people."
6. When the Bible is rightly put in context and you still scorn it then you pitch yourself against it and not man.
7. The Scripture gives this command - "Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them".(Ephesians 5:11)
Exposing that which is not of light or the truth is enjoined by the Word of God. Paul exposed Peter's error openly. error does more harm to the body of Christ than anything else. So i hope by your 'higher authority' and 'due process' you do not mean that if a "MoG" propagates a wrong teaching every other 'ordinary' Christian should just keep quiet so as to respect 'higher authority' and by so doing is following 'due process'. Higher authority and due process should be as the Bible declares them. In the Jude passage it is reference to angelic order. Many of you today still go against this. Due process as far the Bible is concerned is what the Word of God says, not what man says. Man is fallible, only God's word is infallible.

A study in the British Medical Journal investigated spiritual healing, therapeutic touch and faith healing. In a hundred cases that were investigated, no single case revealed that the healer's intervention alone resulted in any improvement or cure of a measurable organic disability.[55]

A Cochrane review of intercessory prayer found "although some of the results of individual studies suggest a positive effect of intercessory prayer, the majority do not" the authors concluded, "We are not convinced that further trials of this intervention should be undertaken and would prefer to see any resources available for such a trial used to investigate other questions in health care."[56] A 2006 study found that intercessory prayer had no effect on complication-free recovery from heart surgery, but curiously the group certain of receiving intercessory prayer experienced higher rates of complications.[57]

A group at Johns Hopkins published a study in 2011 reporting no significant effects on pain, mood, health perceptions, illness intrusiveness, or self-efficacy, but a small improvement in reported energy in a double-blind study to test the efficacy of spiritual exercise in chronically ill adults

.. available scientific evidence does not support claims that faith healing can actually cure physical ailments... One review published in 1998 looked at 172 cases of deaths among children treated by faith healing instead of conventional methods. These researchers estimated that if conventional treatment had been given, the survival rate for most of these children would have been more than 90 percent, with the remainder of the children also having a good chance of survival. A more recent study found that more than 200 children had died of treatable illnesses in the United States over the past thirty years because their parents relied on spiritual healing rather than conventional medical treatment.

nora544:

http://www.ascleiden.nl/sites/default/files/devil_who_heals_published_version.pdf

one of this WOF pastors write a book about him Copeland, Kenneth

Candour:

That is the crux. God answers prayers and Christians must pray at all times. However, a Christian who knows God is sovereign like Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego affirmed and Paul also found out, will know God reserves the right to do what he deems fit whether you think its convenient for you or not.


Daniel 3:16-18 KJV
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. [17] If it be so , our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. [18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 KJV
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. [9] And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.



Did these heroes of faith lack 'faith'? Would you have done better if you were in their position?





So through whom do you 'heal' the sick? Your name?

How many EVD cases have you commanded to go out so far? Or you've not heard about it?

Biodun Kumuyi died of cancer
Paul Crouch died from heart disease
Kathryn Khulman died on an operation table
A. A Allen died from disease
John G Lake died of disease, his wife died of stroke

Would you done better than these giants?






1 Kings 17:13-14 KJV
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.

Elijah was hungry asked her to make a little cake out of what she had and make the rest for herself and her son unlike the crooks of today who like the rulers of the temple in the time of Jesus have no conscience and would have taken everything the poor woman had even when they don't need it.

Elijah was a needy man and got the required help from a kind hearted widow who also got blessed in the process. Unlike your full pastors who like the grave never seem to have enough. That is greed and covetousness in case you don't know and that is what this thread seeks to expose and correct.





How many weeks did the lame man at the beautiful gate spend at 'the healing school' before he got healed?

Of course the miracles you tout are fake like Jack Coe and Peter Poppof before you. So many false christs and false prophets like those you promote are already here and Christ warned us before hand

Matthew 24:4-5, 11, 24 KJV
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The big one hasnt come yet but your heroes are the puppets preparing the ground for his emergence. Even Peter had to deal with some of the sorcerers claiming miraculous power like those you promote today

Acts 8:9 KJV
But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

Paul's arrival was validated by Ananias the Jew and of course the miracles wrought through him were real and true unlike the healing school scams of today. Also the man could have profited nicely from it if he wasnt called and if he so desired after all your daddies are trying to outdo each other in the hedonism and materialism departments with the cash they rake in from their rackets.

God still does miracles and doesn't need a charlatan's help to tell the world that





See the mentality of a Christian who knows God is sovereign over his life and desires.

Romans 14:8 KJV
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

1 Thessalonians 5:10-11 KJV
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

In life or death, God takes glory every time. Whenever he says its time, no mortal can argue, not even you.

Also we know it's part of the 'Christianese' you speak that make you tout yourself as having arrived. We might never know if you beg for a living. This is a faceless forum and no one's status can be verified. Just keep your 'riches' in that little obscure corner of NL where you are. You might not be worthy enough to lace the shoes of those you chat with here so let us rest.





No one I know here has said money is bad. The issue has and will always be the greed, covetousness, insatiability and discontent being propagated under the guise of Christianity.

You are the slave to money when you think having plenty money validates not only your Christianity but also your life on earth. There are many rich miserable people and an African proverb says poverty has been destroyed in the life of a man who can afford food, shelter and raiment. That's the guarantee Christ gave in scriptures. Any thing more is jara and signifies nothing.

If you give to the poor, Praise the Lord for you. That's what we hope you remember to do instead of the showmanship and obscene arrogance and flamboyance going on in Christiandom today.





Of course the high priest Paul insulted had as much authority as the governor of your state and you wouldn't insult him if you're before him. There was nothing spiritual about him, the position of high priest had been politicised long before Paul met him.

Its a different kettle of fish when a crook claims immunity because he can afford to buy a bible, wear a suit and have weak minded people call him 'daddy in the lord'

Only a thief will collect from the poor in the name of the Lord's work while he has millions and billions lying fallow in his own personal account or is he forbidden from following in the spirit of the widows mite?

There are true and honest pastors and there are mere crooks calling themselves pastors





Of course we know the dogs. They are the ones being exposed on this thread.

mbaemeka:

1. Elijah declared rainlessness to Israel. Moved away to a Brook in Cherith and was fed everyday by Ravens (the greediest birds known to man). God sends him to Zarephath and he feeds a broke widow for many days before he prays for rain to come back. He outruns kings chariots; he calls fire from heaven; he teleports; he is flown in a chariot of fire to heaven; he doesn't taste death; he appears to Jesus; he is destined to return.

This same Elijah or are you referring to another?

2. Everyone can see how your flawed your reasoning is: we are to emulate the sickness of the early disciples but not their miracles and it is what God taught you from the scriptures? Not my God.

We are to taught to Emulate their faith and patience so as to obtain the same promises that they did (Hebrews 6:12)

3. What Special calling did Stephen and Phillip have? Did Jesus lie when he said: "these signs shall follow the believing ones"?

Are you part of the believing ones? Where are the signs?

4. How many sick have you prayed for? Did they receive their healings? We need proof to ascertain your responses to these questions.

5. Did Jesus say the rewards where only going to be in heaven? Did he not say "In this world they would receive a hundred fold"?

Again did Jesus lie?

Paul said the "Givers" will have ALL grace abounding towards them in all sufficiency and that they would always have an abundance to do more good works. Did Paul mean in HEAVEN?

What good works will I need to do in heaven? Lol

Don't hide behind the curtain of heaven: we know about rewards in Heaven. But Jesus also told us about the one's on earth and it would never be taken away from us.

6. Is persecution now a substitute for giving? You are quoting verses saying there's a reward for those that suffer persecution in heaven. Please show us instances where Jesus said givers will be rewarded in heaven. Afterall at the mouth of 2 or 3 bible witnesses a truth can be established.

7. You talked about reading scriptures in context and I laughed my head off. I haven't seen a larger group of "out-of-context" readers in my life.

Paul had his own church in Galatia and Peter visited him there. Of course, Paul is allowed to correct Peter in his own church. When Paul visited the Jerusalem church headed by James why didn't he refute James there or scold him publicly? Even when it was clear that Paul didn't agree with some of the Judaistic requirements stipulated by the council he kept his cool because he understood what I am showing to you now.

1 Thesselonians 3: 2 Paul admonished us to recognise those who labour amongst us and are over us in the work of the ministry. He said we are to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.

It would have been fine if he just said esteem them or esteem them highly. Instead he said ESTEEM THEM VERY HIGHLY in LOVE.

Interestingly he added that we are to WARN those who break ranks and speak evil. Maybe Paul didn't know what he meant when he said so.

I trust Paul better. FYI

DrummaBoy:

This document is quite revealing. I wish Nora could paste its content here. It's a well researched work that proves its theses beyond every doubt.

This is the same John G Lake that has become the prototype healer for Ebola by Nigerian faith healers, including our own Nairaland Joagbaje; I wish them the best.

Candour:
Hmmm...this is getting interesting. Is it the same Elijah that couldn't stand the threat from a woman, ran away and started begging God to kill him before Jezebel did him in?
The prophet remembered and realised he was human after all and only did all those miracles and wonders at God's pleasure. When God was ready again, he got reenergised. He wasn't deluding himself claiming a non existent 'godhood'. God is sovereign and would not share that priviledge with any mortal. Wish you guys could stop dwelling in fantasy sometimes and tell yourselves some truth.
If trustman asks anybody to pray to be sick like the apostles, I must have missed it and I'll tell him here that he's wrong if indeed he advocated that.
When Paul and co were being led to their deaths, their faith in God and his righteousness never failed. To the world, they lost out, but to God, they were victors. This was the same faith Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego displayed before the king when, even though they didn't know God would deliver them, they refused to compromised.
That is the faith we are asked to emulate. Not this counterfeit one that only has $$$ as its objective.
How many signs have been associated with you? How do we ascertain you're not simply making up the stories like the usual suspects? After all I can also claim to have cured 100 Ebola patients in bayelsa and you won't be able to refute it.
Nigeria needs your help to combat EVD. How many have you done so far?
Jesus told the apostles that, can you tell us how many houses and farmland Paul had as at the time of his death? They all survived on charity by the church and even Paul had to do a menial job. Did Jesus lie?
You should explain how the 100 fold return didn't work for them since you're the prophet of prosperity. In fact see the testimony of Paul
2 Corinthians 11:25-27 KJV
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.
Did Paul's faith fail? Is there something you know now that he didn't?
Do you know Christians who are raptured will only spend 7 years in heaven before coming back to the earth with the Lord for the millennial reign?
How come the givers of acts 2 & 4 became the objects of gentile Christian charity during Paul's ministry? Did they sow wrongly?
No wonder oyaks, oyedepo, Joshua all have their individual churches now. What was the name of Paul's church? What about Peter's and John's?
No wonder every body feels called today to open a church. Its never about God but about themselves and their ego.....and the $$$$$.
If only those causing the harm to God's children are actually labouring for the flock and not their pockets and bellies, we could have seen them in the class of those Paul was talking about but alas they're greedier than death.
Meanwhile, the reference is 1Thessalonians 5:13.

Candour:
2

In life or death, God takes glory every time. Whenever he says its time, no mortal can argue, not even you.

Elijah was hungry asked her to make a little cake out of what she had and make the rest for herself and her son unlike the crooks of today who like the rulers of the temple in the time of Jesus have no conscience and would have taken everything the poor woman had even when they don't need it.

Of course the high priest Paul insulted had as much authority as the governor of your state and you wouldn't insult him if you're before him. There was nothing spiritual about him, the position of high priest had been politicised long before Paul met him.

mbaemeka:

1. Please show us where God said he reserves the right to heal a man and juxtapose it with him reserving the right so save anyone. What I mean by this is- If I ask God to come and live in me (salvation) can he say to me "I am sovereign, I will let you be saved if I want to"? Now compare it with receiving healings because the scriptures that tell us about his salvation also tell us about our healings.

I am waiting.

2. Can we just achieve the results of the Heroes of faith before we can also share in their 'perceived' failures? Paul told the church in Philippi to focus on the aspects that are of good report; true; praiseworthy; pure etc. So it is only wise that I celebrate those aspects.

Where are your signs? GOD confirmed the words that the disciples preached with signs and wonders.

3. I have not seen any where that I suggested that the healings were to be wrought by any other name save Jesus' and I have testimonies to back my points.

Anyone who cursorily reads my post and is of God's spirit can tell that I have tasted of the Power from on High so I can tell you. If anything at least my convictions in my posts are evident.

what is rather strange is how the minority that dispute all aspects of acting on the word will now claim they act on the same word. If you have seen a miracle wrought by your hands it will be difficult to criticise another person's. Iron sharpens Iron.

4. Elijah was in no way needy! He was being fed bread and meat by God almighty by Ravens (during a famine). God decided to bless a cheerful-prompt-to-do-it giver whose heart was in her giving so he sent the MOG to go to her.

Elijah asked her for 'seed faith'. He said give the last meal that you have and I assure you you will not lack. The widow responded and was blessed. Elijah didn't steal from her. . .he was sent there to bless her. That's what Jesus taught us! 2 Chronicles 20: 20 says if we believe God's prophets we will PROSPER.

Oyedepo was big before you and will always be big. When you stopped sowing into the work of his ministry he didn't call you over the Phone. He doesn't need you to prosper him it is you who needs him.

Paul told us his church that they were PART-TAKERS of his grace.

5. Jesus passed through that beautiful gate on occasions but he didn't heal the man (obviously the man didn't believe in Jesus and he didn't ask Jesus for help). Now the same man asks Peter and John for help and instead of giving him money. . They healed him.

That's what a healing school is about: People go there expressing faith in God's ability to heal and then God responds by giving it to them. The 'school' in the appellation only formalizes it.

Secondly, please spare us the talk about false prophets and false miracles. We are aware of such. You can show us the real one's yourself so that we can believe you.

It is a lie from the pit of hell that anyone will wrought a miracle in Jesus' name and be evil. Satan can not hear that name without bowing. Demons flee when the name is mentioned.

I personally believe it is easier to perform a miracle in Jesus name than it is to fake one. And I see no reason why anyone will create a school to fake miracles when they don't charge you; don't ask you for your help; feed you themselves; give you shelter; and use the name of Jesus.

Try another lie we are not buying this one. Or better still refer us to your own miracles. Let me see you ask a man on a wheel chair to get up from it and walk in the name of Jesus.

6. If I live and die for Christ my money should live and die for him. My money should go to his work, my money should be channeled to his work. It is an open and shutcase. We don't need to quibble over words.

The irony of it all is that the people who will not let a dime go God's work will in the same breath talk about how they support the help of the poor. The brethren of Judas'.

Of course, NL is faceless so I am left to judge you and your ilk by your words. On that authority I can put it to you that if I was to compare what I give out to the sum total of you and your ilk you lot will not measure up.

I don't see how the 5K you didn't give towards LFCs church project affected the completion of it or Oyedepos networth. You exaggerate your importance alot that is what I can gather.

8. MONEY moves the gospel in this day. Pristine door-to-door evangelism is effective but it's far-reaching capabilities isn't. The time is short and the lord is soon to come. This message has to get to every nuke and cranny of the world before the Master returns. Jesus said the harvest is plenteous but the labourers are few and I don't expect Dangote to use his money to propagate the gospel so I have to do it myself.

If this sort of conviction is above your pay grade it is understandable. It is not above mine. God in response to his word keeps making all grace abound toward me so I am always having enough to give at every opportunity. I have the mind of christ who said his kingdom is spread abroad through the prosperity of his citizens. I don't ask for prosperity it is already mine. And I am not contented with just me, myself and I (like you non-greedy christians are)

I would rather desire to have more so I can help more than to be satisfied with the mediocrity that you and your ilk have accepted.

Jesus said where a man's treasure is that is where his heart will be.

9. You want to help Paul explain himself and Paul said that is a lie. Paul didn't know who Ananias was he thought he was just another man and so he called him a whitewashed wall. Someone said to Paul "you revile the High Priest" and Paul apologised saying "We are not to speak evil of Dignitaries". Paul is christian and Ananias a Jew yet Paul did not call him a charlatan.

That same Paul in almost all his writings admonished his members to imitate him in that regard. David after having learnt about Sauls death said to his soldiers " tell it not in Garth" in other words, don't say it amongst the heathen.

These men are wiser than your entire clan. You should do well to learn a thing or two from them.

therealMcCain:

Firstly I think we all have to settle with what Paul said about us knowing in parts
1cor13:9


you said the following in response to mbaemeka post



I beg to differ, hezekieh did & got an extension

isiah 38:1-5
1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
2 Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD,
3 And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years

Looking at it from a physical view with no spiritual undertone, it was wicked for Elijah to have made such request.

1kings17:12
12 And she said, As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

Here was a woman who said she didn't have enough food, she even said she & her son will eat it and die, meaning she didn't have anything to eat after that meal

But the prophet still requested for a piece of that meal, that wasn't enough. Pls isn't that selfishness & wickedness(coming from a physical stand point)

If this were to happen in present day, all the media will go agog & give that pastor unprintable names

But there was a spiritual undertone to it & thank God the woman act accordingly(she had physical reason not to obey)

So based on this story, who was supposed to give to who

The prophet to the woman or the woman to the prophet??

Acts 23:1-4
1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.
2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?
4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest?
5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Paul apologized because it was written & not becos of any politics!!!

trustman:

I want to trust that candour has sufficiently addressed your concerns.

nora544:

Yeas he is the one who start this when you have time read this about him it is from an University and shows the right face of this liar.

http://www.ascleiden.nl/sites/default/files/devil_who_heals_published_version.pdf

one of this WOF pastors write a book about him Copeland, Kenneth

Candour:
Also I wish to ask you. If God didn't grant His request, what could he have done? Who determined the extra 15 years? God or Hezekiah?

mbaemeka:

1. Please show us where God said he reserves the right to heal a man and juxtapose it with him reserving the right so save anyone. What I mean by this is- If I ask God to come and live in me (salvation) can he say to me "I am sovereign, I will let you be saved if I want to"? Now compare it with receiving healings because the scriptures that tell us about his salvation also tell us about our healings.

I am waiting.

2. Can we just achieve the results of the Heroes of faith before we can also share in their 'perceived' failures? Paul told the church in Philippi to focus on the aspects that are of good report; true; praiseworthy; pure etc. So it is only wise that I celebrate those aspects.

Where are your signs? GOD confirmed the words that the disciples preached with signs and wonders.

3. I have not seen any where that I suggested that the healings were to be wrought by any other name save Jesus' and I have testimonies to back my points.

Anyone who cursorily reads my post and is of God's spirit can tell that I have tasted of the Power from on High so I can tell you. If anything at least my convictions in my posts are evident.

what is rather strange is how the minority that dispute all aspects of acting on the word will now claim they act on the same word. If you have seen a miracle wrought by your hands it will be difficult to criticise another person's. Iron sharpens Iron.

4. Elijah was in no way needy! He was being fed bread and meat by God almighty by Ravens (during a famine). God decided to bless a cheerful-prompt-to-do-it giver whose heart was in her giving so he sent the MOG to go to her.

Elijah asked her for 'seed faith'. He said give the last meal that you have and I assure you you will not lack. The widow responded and was blessed. Elijah didn't steal from her. . .he was sent there to bless her. That's what Jesus taught us! 2 Chronicles 20: 20 says if we believe God's prophets we will PROSPER.

Oyedepo was big before you and will always be big. When you stopped sowing into the work of his ministry he didn't call you over the Phone. He doesn't need you to prosper him it is you who needs him.

Paul told us his church that they were PART-TAKERS of his grace.

5. Jesus passed through that beautiful gate on occasions but he didn't heal the man (obviously the man didn't believe in Jesus and he didn't ask Jesus for help). Now the same man asks Peter and John for help and instead of giving him money. . They healed him.

That's what a healing school is about: People go there expressing faith in God's ability to heal and then God responds by giving it to them. The 'school' in the appellation only formalizes it.

Secondly, please spare us the talk about false prophets and false miracles. We are aware of such. You can show us the real one's yourself so that we can believe you.

It is a lie from the pit of hell that anyone will wrought a miracle in Jesus' name and be evil. Satan can not hear that name without bowing. Demons flee when the name is mentioned.

I personally believe it is easier to perform a miracle in Jesus name than it is to fake one. And I see no reason why anyone will create a school to fake miracles when they don't charge you; don't ask you for your help; feed you themselves; give you shelter; and use the name of Jesus.

Try another lie we are not buying this one. Or better still refer us to your own miracles. Let me see you ask a man on a wheel chair to get up from it and walk in the name of Jesus.

6. If I live and die for Christ my money should live and die for him. My money should go to his work, my money should be channeled to his work. It is an open and shutcase. We don't need to quibble over words.

The irony of it all is that the people who will not let a dime go God's work will in the same breath talk about how they support the help of the poor. The brethren of Judas'.

Of course, NL is faceless so I am left to judge you and your ilk by your words. On that authority I can put it to you that if I was to compare what I give out to the sum total of you and your ilk you lot will not measure up.

I don't see how the 5K you didn't give towards LFCs church project affected the completion of it or Oyedepos networth. You exaggerate your importance alot that is what I can gather.

7. MONEY moves the gospel in this day. Pristine door-to-door evangelism is effective but it's far-reaching capabilities isn't. The time is short and the lord is soon to come. This message has to get to every nuke and cranny of the world before the Master returns. Jesus said the harvest is plenteous but the labourers are few and I don't expect Dangote to use his money to propagate the gospel so I have to do it myself.

If this sort of conviction is above your pay grade it is understandable. It is not above mine. God in response to his word keeps making all grace abound toward me so I am always having enough to give at every opportunity. I have the mind of christ who said his kingdom is spread abroad through the prosperity of his citizens. I don't ask for prosperity it is already mine. And I am not contented with just me, myself and I (like you non-greedy christians are)

I would rather desire to have more so I can help more than to be satisfied with the mediocrity that you and your ilk have accepted.

Jesus said where a man's treasure is that is where his heart will be.

8. You want to help Paul explain himself and Paul said that is a lie. Paul didn't know who Ananias was he thought he was just another man and so he called him a whitewashed wall. Someone said to Paul "you revile the High Priest" and Paul apologised saying "We are not to speak evil of Dignitaries". Paul is christian and Ananias a Jew yet Paul did not call him a charlatan.

That same Paul in almost all his writings admonished his members to imitate him in that regard. David after having learnt about Sauls death said to his soldiers " tell it not in Garth" in other words, don't say it amongst the heathen.

These men are wiser than your entire clan. You should do well to learn a thing or two from them.

mbaemeka:

1. Ye are gods- GOD said. The Glory I have I have given those that believe in me- God said. If they're fantasies I would rather live in them than accept the poison that you would rather drink to your own detriment.

Also, leave Elijahs shortcomings and discuss his achievements or are you scared?

2. God is a deliverer and a rescuer Nebuchadnezzar said. I love that! If he doesn't deliver you he can rescue you. Please read with the eyes of the spirit.

3. Make up stories? Try another joke. It is easier to heal in the name of Jesus than it is to fake one.

You are talking about Ebola and I am asking you if you have seen an accidented leg whose bones had been crushed to pieces put together by the anointing of God's spirit. This anointing split the red sea; caused Quales to come to the desert; made a decomposed body regenerate. This is God's power we are talking about o! Come on!

4. Pharisees of Jesus day asked him same questions and he gave a fitting reply: wisdom is justified by her children.

Paul said I know how to Abound and I know how to Abase. I too know how to Abound and how to go hungry. August 1st-3rd I went without food because I was fasting and praying for lost souls amongst other things. Yet I had alot of food to eat in my house. That's how to be hungry.

God's children should stop converting their poverty to a fast!

4. God told Paul he was to suffer for the gospel. God didn't tell mbaemeka that he was to suffer for the gospel. God told me to prosper for the gospel. Amen.

5. I can write a book on the rapture and the second coming- just so you'd know. What I am yet to know is if when we return to the new earth we would still have poor people to help.

Can you answer that in light of the above discourse?

6. Joses whose name was changed to Barnabas because of his LARGE SEED became a Pastor and Prophet.

The little boy who sowed his 5loaves and 2 fish became a distributor of bread afterwards abi who do you suppose they gave the remnants to? (Bible quiz)

7. Paul's churches where situated in Gentile regions. He was the one who started a church in Galatia amongst other places and so he was the resident Pastor and father of the church. I cannot for example go to LFC and tell them not to use anointing oil (even if I do not believe in it). But if I was a pastor in my own church I can teach my church that. That's the due process that God expects from his church to avoid strifes.

8. I don't know why money makes you cringe and have sleepless nights. Some of us don't value it the way you do. The money someone else is praying for to pay his house rent might be my monthly contribution to a church. Let each man give as he desires. He that is trusted in little is trusted in much.

9. Thank you for the correction on the scripture verses. I have been meditating on Paul's prayer about God delivering us from wicked and unreasonable men who don't have faith. Maybe that's probably why I mixed the verses.

A greedy man is the one who would rather prosper away from God's guidance and grace so that he would not be responsible for the work of God.

God is the Lord of my life and money. I endeavour to put him first...always! If you see me prospering or talking about it, it is because it is a bonus. The word said God will give me all those things that selfish (myself myself christians and bloggers crave) as ja ra in yoruba parlance- extra.

Praise God!

therealMcCain:

If God didn't grant his request he would have gone ahead to put his house in order as he was previously instructed

God determined the 15yrs

What did David do after his son died despite the fasting?

Anyone that disputes the sovereignty of God or takes God for a on & off switch is deluded

I hear people in their prayer, commanding God & I shudder at that

so I strongly know & believe that at the end of the day, Gods sovereignty rules

therealMcCain:

Looking at it from a physical view with no spiritual undertone, it was wicked for Elijah to have made such request.

1kings17:12
12 And she said, As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

Here was a woman who said she didn't have enough food, she even said she & her son will eat it and die,
meaning she didn't have anything to eat after that meal

But the prophet still requested for a piece of that meal, that wasn't enough.

Pls isn't that selfishness & wickedness(coming from a physical stand point)

If this were to happen in present day, all the media will go agog & give that pastor unprintable names

But there was a spiritual undertone to it & thank God the woman act accordingly(she had physical reason not to obey)

So based on this story, who was supposed to give to who

The prophet to the woman or the woman to the prophet??

mbaemeka:

1. Elijah declared rainlessness to Israel. Moved away to a Brook in Cherith and was fed everyday by Ravens (the greediest birds known to man). God sends him to Zarephath and he feeds a broke widow for many days before he prays for rain to come back. He outruns kings chariots; he calls fire from heaven; he teleports; he is flown in a chariot of fire to heaven; he doesn't taste death; he appears to Jesus; he is destined to return.

This same Elijah or are you referring to another?

2. Everyone can see how your flawed your reasoning is: we are to emulate the sickness of the early disciples but not their miracles and it is what God taught you from the scriptures? Not my God.

We are to taught to Emulate their faith and patience so as to obtain the same promises that they did (Hebrews 6:12)

3. What Special calling did Stephen and Phillip have? Did Jesus lie when he said: "these signs shall follow the believing ones"?

Are you part of the believing ones? Where are the signs?

4. How many sick have you prayed for? Did they receive their healings? We need proof to ascertain your responses to these questions.

5. Did Jesus say the rewards where only going to be in heaven? Did he not say "In this world they would receive a hundred fold"?

Again did Jesus lie?

Paul said the "Givers" will have ALL grace abounding towards them in all sufficiency and that they would always have an abundance to do more good works. Did Paul mean in HEAVEN?

What good works will I need to do in heaven? Lol

Don't hide behind the curtain of heaven: we know about rewards in Heaven. But Jesus also told us about the one's on earth and it would never be taken away from us.

6. Is persecution now a substitute for giving? You are quoting verses saying there's a reward for those that suffer persecution in heaven. Please show us instances where Jesus said givers will be rewarded in heaven. Afterall at the mouth of 2 or 3 bible witnesses a truth can be established.

7. You talked about reading scriptures in context and I laughed my head off. I haven't seen a larger group of "out-of-context" readers in my life.

Paul had his own church in Galatia and Peter visited him there. Of course, Paul is allowed to correct Peter in his own church. When Paul visited the Jerusalem church headed by James why didn't he refute James there or scold him publicly? Even when it was clear that Paul didn't agree with some of the Judaistic requirements stipulated by the council he kept his cool because he understood what I am showing to you now.

1 Thesselonians 3: 2 Paul admonished us to recognise those who labour amongst us and are over us in the work of the ministry. He said we are to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.

It would have been fine if he just said esteem them or esteem them highly. Instead he said ESTEEM THEM VERY HIGHLY in LOVE.

Interestingly he added that we are to WARN those who break ranks and speak evil. Maybe Paul didn't know what he meant when he said so.

I trust Paul better. FYI

If trustman asks anybody to pray to be sick like the apostles, I must have missed it and I'll tell him here that he's wrong if indeed he advocated that.

mbaemeka:

4. God told Paul he was to suffer for the gospel. God didn't tell mbaemeka that he was to suffer for the gospel. God told me to prosper for the gospel. Amen.

DrummaBoy:
To tell you the truth: I can hardly read through your posts. They reek with such much ignorance one begins to wonder where to start the "fixing" from. You should have taken to the advice of Joagbaje and the "disciple whom WOF loves", nlmediator, and not have bothered coming to this thread. But alas you are here and what do we have: Paul suffered... mbaemeka would not. Nonsense!
My guy, there is no other way of saying it: you have been deceived; having believed a lie for so long.
That lie being Word of Faith, and you just cannot bear the truth being shown to you... a pity.

therealMcCain:

no he hasn't answered this

Question 1:how then can a Christian act on those verses, it's usage & application

As a Christian what do I do with those verses, what lessons can I glean from it