Re: Doctors Begin Nationwide Strike Today by harmonyedwards(m): 3:14am
timowale: Its quite amazing how majorities of respondents who are doctors on this topic have expressed such hieght of amateurish reaction to it.
i mean how possible is it for a so called professional in a specific discipline to have expertise also in virtually all other affiliated discipline
The claim by all doctors and the pro-doctors on this issue that all the other health workers are half baked is fallacious.
Each profession within the health team has its context and curriculum of study different from another health profession.you can only show expertise in a specific profession you have chosen
Next time you want to rubbish a practitioner in another discipline,do come up with more credible points instead of just typing to satisfy your egos

A horrible display of ignorance!
Kindly purge yourself of it by doing a lil' homework!
Go and research into medical training...
You would be shocked!

[quote author=harmonyedwards]

On the contrary,its obvious you are the one playing ignorance on this issue and I do not need your so called medical training cos I belong to one already where am presently displaying maximum expertise.I put it to you that you are the one that needs to study more and get more knowledge in your field.this would get you more committed in your field and you won't have time to distract others who are committed to their duties from doing so.nonsense!

in nigeria right now the senior nurses earn far higher than resident doctors. let the truth be told.

phantomm: in nigeria right now the senior nurses earn far higher than resident doctors. let the truth be told.

I dunno why dey just lie plainly.what shall we gain from lies.dey say anything in d name of hate.imagine pharm akintayo saying consultants take home 2million naija monthly.that ll be nice but it's nowhere near that

Comment from Punch newspaper Anthony Okpunwa • 4 hours ago

DOCTORS MUST USE ACTIONS AND NOT WORDS!!!

If doctors are really the head of the health sector and owners of the hospitals as they claim, they must act now or never. I can see water washing off sand under their feet.

When JOHESU go on strike, they lock up the hospitals and completely ground activities in the clinics. Government responds by granting their demand ASAP.

When NMA go on strike, they most times exclude consultants and house officers to render skeletal services. This usually makes their strike ineffective with eventual poor outcome.

Since this same GEJ's FG has decided to alter the existing hierarchy in the health system, the doctors may have no option than total withdrawal of their services which I think most Nigerians no longer need in the tertiary hospital going by the comments I read here. Let us meet at the private clinic. A welder most not be employed by government. Doctor must not be under government. Let us see who wins.

If teaching hospitals are abolished, most the nurses, lab men, radiographers, etc will run to private hospital to ask for job. I may sound wicked but this is the truth. If other health workers can comfortably work under doctor in private hospitals, health centres, general hospitals cottage hospitals and even some state teaching hospitals, why is it that the same group of workers wants to equal doctors in federal government hospitals? The truth must be told.

treasuredbytemi:
Thats what u think but my facts are as right as they can be. “Sections 4e and 19d of the Medical Laboratory
Science Council Law Act 11, 2003 (Cap M25, LFN
2014) specifically mandates the MLSCN to
“regulate the production, importation, sales and
stocking of diagnostic reagents and chemicals
and make rules for the maintenance of good
standard of medical laboratory practice and
services.
This is “with respect to regulation and control of
private practice, including statutory inspection,
approval and monitoring of all medical
laboratories, including those adjoined to clinics,
private and public health institutions.” Doctors have left what they should do they just running after name, fame abd money. spending more time on strike than they do inside a hospital

"...........reagents and chemicals........"

Doctors are the best hospital managers, study reveals | Society | The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/19/doctors-best-hospital-managers-new-research

drobadebayo:
So who should decide when other members come in.lets use a case of someone that presented to the emergency room with stroke.dat person is admitted by d doc on call,resuscitated.now dt doc decides wen he needs CAT scan(radiology),blood analysis(labs),drugs(pharms),regular turng,odas(nursing) nd den rehabilitation(physio),in some cases psychiatrists.not all patients need all dese people,so it's d doc that dictates wen every oda person comes in.#teamwork led by d doc.Our problem is that we r not working as a team,becos we think someone is superior nd one is inferior.

Dem no dey hia word!!!!!

joker5180: "...........reagents and chemicals........"

I wonder oo!

otokx:

No work no pay will not affect them, they are not lazy lecturers.

the same lecturers who made u are lazy? hope u recalled in that ur good head that some doctors are also lecturers.

10 FACTS YOU DID NOT KNOW ABOUT MALARIA-

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=251593471631115&id=160172984106498&refid=17

Doctors are the best hospital managers. As shown by a new study.


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/19/doctors-best-hospital-managers-new-research

In my opinion...NMA demands is just a truckload of crap. Its nt even patient-focussed...just adminstrative battle between them and JOHESU. So, its the patient that will suffer in this whole brouhaha...and they are jus too greedy to see that.

For starters...what the heck is a Surgeon General of the Federatn and hw does it better the lives of patients...if nt that its simply a political position and one more bragging claim over other health professionals

Secondly, why are the fighting to head over all the units in the hospital. Imagine a doctor that just graduated and did masters in maybe...say Nursing, would come and be the Chief Nursing Officer in a unit that has matrons with over 25years experience...imagine the disparity.

I think the major reason why there is so much decay in the health sector is because all the units have always been headed by medical consultants that are ill-trained for the field they are heading. Let the Nurses, lab scientists other health workers man their own unit if they are duly qualified to do so.

NMA cant survive on their own and neither can JOHESU. What is a doctor without a lab test result...NATIVE DOCTOR.

They should stop all this admistrative war and put aside all ego to work together for the benefit of the patients...which is their primary purpose of being health workers.

Slimchy09: In my opinion...NMA demands is just a truckload of crap. Its nt even patient-focussed...just adminstrative battle between them and JOHESU. So, its the patient that will suffer in this whole brouhaha...and they are jus too greedy to see that.

For starters...what the heck is a Surgeon General of the Federatn and hw does it better the lives of patients...if nt that its simply a political position and one more bragging claim over other health professionals

Secondly, why are the fighting to head over all the units in the hospital. Imagine a doctor that just graduated and did masters in maybe...say Nursing, would come and be the Chief Nursing Officer in a unit that has matrons with over 25years experience...imagine the disparity.

I think the major reason why there is so much decay in the health sector is because all the units have always been headed by medical consultants that are ill-trained for the field they are heading. Let the Nurses, lab scientists other health workers man their own unit if they are duly qualified to do so.

NMA cant survive on their own and neither can JOHESU. What is a doctor without a lab test result...NATIVE DOCTOR.

They should stop all this admistrative war and put aside all ego to work together for the benefit of the patients...which is their primary purpose of being health workers.

the bolded shows you shouldn't have commented.

Slimchy09: In my opinion...NMA demands is just a truckload of crap. Its nt even patient-focussed...just adminstrative battle between them and JOHESU. So, its the patient that will suffer in this whole brouhaha...and they are jus too greedy to see that.

For starters...what the heck is a Surgeon General of the Federatn and hw does it better the lives of patients...if nt that its simply a political position and one more bragging claim over other health professionals

Secondly, why are the fighting to head over all the units in the hospital. Imagine a doctor that just graduated and did masters in maybe...say Nursing, would come and be the Chief Nursing Officer in a unit that has matrons with over 25years experience...imagine the disparity.

I think the major reason why there is so much decay in the health sector is because all the units have always been headed by medical consultants that are ill-trained for the field they are heading. Let the Nurses, lab scientists other health workers man their own unit if they are duly qualified to do so.

NMA cant survive on their own and neither can JOHESU. What is a doctor without a lab test result...NATIVE DOCTOR.

They should stop all this admistrative war and put aside all ego to work together for the benefit of the patients...which is their primary purpose of being health workers.

OK let's start from here,doctors don't become chief nursing officers!!it's solely reserved for nurses. Secondly not all ailments require tests in fact a good doctor should be able to get a diagnosis from just talking to u nd examining u. 3rdly doctors r not fightg to head all units in the hospital,cos dey don't nd wont. Soo pls read nd understand d info well wherever u got it from.#peace

armadeo:


the bolded shows you shouldn't have commented.

Lol.lets just correct dese stuffs so people who read dem don't just belive dem blindly. some people dunno which is which.

Slimchy09: In my opinion...NMA demands is just a truckload of crap. Its nt even patient-focussed...just adminstrative battle between them and JOHESU. So, its the patient that will suffer in this whole brouhaha...and they are jus too greedy to see that.

For starters...what the heck is a Surgeon General of the Federatn and hw does it better the lives of patients...if nt that its simply a political position and one more bragging claim over other health professionals

Secondly, why are the fighting to head over all the units in the hospital. Imagine a doctor that just graduated and did masters in maybe...say Nursing, would come and be the Chief Nursing Officer in a unit that has matrons with over 25years experience...imagine the disparity.

I think the major reason why there is so much decay in the health sector is because all the units have always been headed by medical consultants that are ill-trained for the field they are heading. Let the Nurses, lab scientists other health workers man their own unit if they are duly qualified to do so.

NMA cant survive on their own and neither can JOHESU. What is a doctor without a lab test result...NATIVE DOCTOR.

They should stop all this admistrative war and put aside all ego to work together for the benefit of the patients...which is their primary purpose of being health workers.

very shallow reasoning based yet again on sentiments. why don't you go through the demands of nma and critically analyse each one no matter how obnoxious they may be. study them then come and ask us sensible questions.

drobadebayo:
OK let's start from here,doctors don't become chief nursing officers!!it's solely reserved for nurses. Secondly not all ailments require tests in fact a good doctor should be able to get a diagnosis from just talking to u nd examining u. 3rdly doctors r not fightg to head all units in the hospital,cos dey don't nd wont. Soo pls read nd understand d info well wherever u got it from.#peace

i used CNO...as a plain example...in reality, what abt radiography and lab units...who heads them?

Secondly...u cannot give a definitive diagnosis without proper medical lab tests...cos ur medical suspicions are simply conjectures and never used as a basis for treatment in a 'proper' setting.

Thirdly...i got my facts straight. I jus didnt feel like typing them all..but since u are challenging my source, let me indulge you.

But firstly...lemme ask u this... The major focus of your strike...Is it honestly patient-focussed or adminstrative control-focussed

phantom: very shallow reasoning based yet again on sentiments. why don't you go through the demands of nma and critically analyse each one no matter how obnoxious they may be. study them then come and ask us sensible questions.

and why dont u go through JOHESU issues wt NMA and evaluate for yourself

Slimchy09:

i used CNO...as a plain example...in reality, what abt radiography and lab units...who heads them?

Secondly...u cannot give a definitive diagnosis without proper medical lab tests...cos ur medical suspicions are simply conjectures and never used as a basis for treatment in a 'proper' setting.

Thirdly...i got my facts straight. I jus didnt feel like typing them all..but since u are challenging my source, let me indulge you.

But firstly...lemme ask u this... The major focus of your strike...Is it honestly patient-focussed or adminstrative control-focussed

1st bolded very wrong example lets overllok that.

2nd bolded. Yes a diagnosis can be made without any investigation ( not in all cases ) then there are the Differentials. investigative results act to complement the initial diagnosis and in most cases treatment has already begun before the results return.

3rd bolded IMHO in a setting where everyone bears the same title CONSULTANT (and knowing Nigerians ) who is finally responsible for the patient. Its a case of too many cooks in one pot. Only anarchy can ensue.
We all know that the johesu consultants will flex thier consultancy muscles trying to prove the dr wrong or show importance or whatever and ultimately the patient will suffer for it. so i say its patient oriented.

For this to work the dr needs administrative control neh.

[center][/center]

Slimchy09:

i used CNO...as a plain example...in reality, what abt radiography and lab units...who heads them?

Secondly...u cannot give a definitive diagnosis without proper medical lab tests...cos ur medical suspicions are simply conjectures and never used as a basis for treatment in a 'proper' setting.

Thirdly...i got my facts straight. I jus didnt feel like typing them all..but since u are challenging my source, let me indulge you.

But firstly...lemme ask u this... The major focus of your strike...Is it honestly patient-focussed or adminstrative control-focussed

Am sure u dunno much abt how federal hospitals are run.u used a plain example dt was wrong.nd yes u cn diagnose some ailments wdaot lab tests,u need it to confirm ur diagnosis in others.if u still wanna argue dat kindly tell me the definitive lab diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia nd tests to distinguish it from other types,dont sweat,there is none.
Thirdly,anything dt is hospital admin focused is patient focused.d hospital is Dere for patients bro,so nma's cause is administered focused nd hence patient focused.

phantom: very shallow reasoning based yet again on sentiments. why don't you go through the demands of nma and critically analyse each one no matter how obnoxious they may be. study them then come and ask us sensible questions.

ok
1. Why shouldnt the National Health Bill be passed?

2. Why must only Doctors be CMD?

3. Whats ur beef wt the salary structure of JOHESU?

4. NMA is nt even a trade union just an association...y did Industrial court throw out ur injunction and then u sought to blackmail FG wt strike action.

5. Why is NMA clamoring to have entry level doctors in govt hospitals @ GL14 when they were previously @ GL13...two levels higher than other health professionals nt minding the fact that it takes up to 10years to move to a single level?

Can u answer that...?

armadeo:




1st bolded very wrong example lets overllok that.

2nd bolded. Yes a diagnosis can be made without any investigation ( not in all cases ) then there are the Differentials. investigative results act to complement the initial diagnosis and in most cases treatment has already begun before the results return.

3rd bolded IMHO in a setting where everyone bears the same title CONSULTANT (and knowing Nigerians ) who is finally responsible for the patient. Its a case of too many cooks in one pot. Only anarchy can ensue.
We all know that the johesu consultants will flex thier consultancy muscles trying to prove the dr wrong or show importance or whatever and ultimately the patient will suffer for it. so i say its patient oriented.

For this to work the dr needs administrative control neh.

I cant make 'bold' some atrocious comments u made up there so jus figure where my point is headed at in ur line of reasoning.

Why shouldnt they feel important...is it because they didnt spend 6 years + 1 studying medicine. A lot of them have tens of years of experience in their field so y cant they become consultants...because they arent doctors... Ho will that resort to anarchy when everyone has a defined role they play in the hospital.

Your reasoning is stereotypical of the arrogant Nigerian doctors...

drobadebayo: [center][/center]
Am sure u dunno much abt how federal hospitals are run.u used a plain example dt was wrong.nd yes u cn diagnose some ailments wdaot lab tests,u need it to confirm ur diagnosis in others.if u still wanna argue dat kindly tell me the definitive lab diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia nd tests to distinguish it from other types,dont sweat,there is none.
Thirdly,anything dt is hospital admin focused is patient focused.d hospital is Dere for patients bro,so nma's cause is administered focused nd hence patient focused.

4gt abt what i said wt CNO..its irrelevant...but u carefully sidestepped other units forcefully headed by doctors

schizo is a pysch problem...not ur regular case. Am talking abt lab tests and routine procedures so dnt give me crap like u can function effectively without the help of other health professionals.

Adminstrative issues is one thing...going on strike and denying patients access to medical care jus because u want to lord it over other health professionals in a long-standing battle as old as the medical profession itself speaks volumes of where ur ideals and morals lies...

Slimchy09:

4gt abt what i said wt CNO..its irrelevant...but u carefully sidestepped other units forcefully headed by doctors

schizo is a pysch problem...not ur regular case. Am talking abt lab tests and routine procedures so dnt give me crap like u can function effectively without the help of other health professionals.
Adminstrative issues is one thing...going on strike and denying patients access to medical care jus because u want to lord it over other health professionals in a long-standing battle as old as the medical profession itself speaks volumes of where ur ideals and morals lies...

My broda,i hereby give up on u, U no go kuku hear.i wasn't arguing,i was educating you.if u think schizophrenia is nt routine,tell dt to psychiatrists

eaglechild: Those clamouring to become consultants should please look at the way residency program is structured.

I hope they realise that they will need to do the following.

Establish colleges for different fields.

Establish faculties for different subspecialties.

Have trained "consultants" in different subspecialties.

Cease to become permanent members of staff of hospitals, and have their appointment terminated at the time of expiration of the program.

Undergo training a minimum of 4 years equivalent to at least a post PhD.(almost impossible given that their first degrees are not at par with MBBS). Involving novel clinical research.

Be ready to have their appointments terminated if they fail to pass college exams.
This is not Wat johesu wants,dey want to become consultants because dey v sat in one place for years.thats not how it's done.

drobadebayo:
My broda,i hereby give up on u, U no go kuku hear.i wasn't arguing,i was educating you.if u think schizophrenia is nt routine,tell dt to psychiatrists

Am nt ur 'broda'... And i retain the opinion dt nma's demands are selfish and egoistical. Quote me however u like... It wont change the honest truth.
G'nyt

Slimchy09:

Am nt ur 'broda'... And i retain the opinion dt nma's demands are selfish and egoistical. Quote me however u like... It wont change the honest truth.
G'nyt

Oh really didn't know u were a chick,unfortunately ur opinion doesn't amount to a pinch of salt.sweetdreams

Slimchy09:

I cant make 'bold' some atrocious comments u made up there so jus figure where my point is headed at in ur line of reasoning.

Why shouldnt they feel important...is it because they didnt spend 6 years + 1 studying medicine. A lot of them have tens of years of experience in their field so y cant they become consultants...because they arent doctors... Ho will that resort to anarchy when everyone has a defined role they play in the hospital.

Your reasoning is stereotypical of the arrogant Nigerian doctors...

everybody is important to somebody.




quote author=drobadebayo]eaglechild: Those clamouring to become consultants should please look at the way residency program is structured.

I hope they realise that they will need to do the following.

Establish colleges for different fields.

Establish faculties for different subspecialties.

Have trained "consultants" in different subspecialties.

Cease to become permanent members of staff of hospitals, and have their appointment terminated at the time of expiration of the program.

Undergo training a minimum of 4 years equivalent to at least a post PhD.(almost impossible given that their first degrees are not at par with MBBS). Involving novel clinical research.

Be ready to have their appointments terminated if they fail to pass college exams.
This is not Wat johesu wants,dey want to become consultants because dey v sat in one place for years.thats not how it's done.[/quote]



the above comment is why despite 100yrs of being in the same place doesn't entitle you to being a consultant. even now with well defined protocols do johesu members stick to them talk off establishing them as consultants and now defining protocols again. It will result in anarchy and the patient will suffer.


i am also entitled to my opinion which to you is now arrogance

Slimchy09:

ok
1. Why shouldnt the National Health Bill be passed?

2. Why must only Doctors be CMD?

3. Whats ur beef wt the salary structure of JOHESU?

4. NMA is nt even a trade union just an association...y did Industrial court throw out ur injunction and then u sought to blackmail FG wt strike action.

5. Why is NMA clamoring to have entry level doctors in govt hospitals @ GL14 when they were previously @ GL13...two levels higher than other health professionals nt minding the fact that it takes up to 10years to move to a single level?

Can u answer that...?

okay let me indulge you.
1.when did NMA say that the national health bill shouldnt be passed? they just want grey areas ironed out.simple

2.google 'cheif medical director' .i hope you know there is a positon of director admin open to all.besides new research indicates hospitals run by doctors run better than those with out a doc at the head.

3.no beef with CONHESS. nma is only advocating that relativity be maintained.

4.is ASUU a trade union??

5.entry level for HOs is grade level 10. if you illegally skip a level for johesu,you erode the relativity.

drobadebayo:
Oh really didn't know u were a chick,unfortunately ur opinion doesn't amount to a pinch of salt.sweetdreams

neither do yours.