Weah96:

He knows this.

I like the fact that you can cite instances, what about the explanation given by Paul in Galatians 4?

The truth of the matter here is that you see people practicing religion and you conclude that it is what the Bible tells them to do and the actual Bible you never try to examine it for yourself. Or you just regurgitate what you read or hear others say; you need to critically examine things for yourself, bro. That way, you can make an informed decision.

BraveGuy:

I guess you are either too lazy to check your dictionary or can't Google it. Here it is:

al·le·go·ry
ˈaləˌgôrē/Submit
noun
a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
"Pilgrim's Progress is an allegory of the spiritual journey"
synonyms: parable, analogy, metaphor, symbol, emblem More
a symbol.

And also read this:
Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.
Galatians 4:23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.
Galatians 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

True stories but with hidden meanings.

Abegi

When a bible story is pointed out to be false, it becomes an allegory.


However, christians contradict themselves


Adam and Eve story
-British Christains; it is an allegorical/metaphorical story of creation. Deeper meaning.
-Nigerian Christians; It happened. I am a descendant of Adam (despite being a black man).
-American Evangelists; It is literally true. Jesus believed in Adam...I believe it too





Confused souls

TheBigUrban2:

Abegi

When a bible story is pointed out to be false, it becomes an allegory.
However, christians contradict themselves

Adam and Eve story
-British Christains; it is an allegorical/metaphorical story of creation. Deeper meaning.
-Nigerian Christians; It happened. I am a descendant of Adam (despite being a black man).
-American Evangelists; It is literally true. Jesus believed in Adam...I believe it too



Confused souls

No bi beggin matta now, everythin dey for Scriptures.

I like the fact that you can cite instances, what about the explanation given by Paul in Galatians 4?

Even if Iran Christian adds his twist to it and Zulu land Christian contributes his own. True Bible interpretation is not to personal pleasure. It's not that one day it is red because I like red colour and another day it is blue because I favour blue for that season. Such a person is doing it to his own detriment.

The Bible is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.... 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

BraveGuy:

The Bible is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.... 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Pure crap, even you yourself interpret the bible personally. . .Every chgristian does that that is why there is no universal biblical doctrine and genuine christians disagree all the time over basic issues. . .Christians are yet to agree on the basic nature of Jesus, while some say he is god and god's son at the same time, others say he is god's son alone and is different from god himself. . How salvation can be achieved is also a major cause of disagreement. . NL religious section is filled with all these disagreements among the christian body, the funny thing is that all of them quote the bible and lay claim to the holy spirit when making their claims. . .Confused people. . .

mazaje:

Pure crap, even you yourself interpret the bible personally. . .Every chgristian does that that is why there is no universal biblical doctrine and genuine christians disagree all the time over basic issues. . .Christians are yet to agree on the basic nature of Jesus, while some say he is god and god's son at the same time, others say he is god's son alone and is different from god himself. . How salvation can be achieved is also a major cause of disagreement. . NL religious section is filled with all these disagreements among the christian body, the funny thing is that all of them quote the bible and lay claim to the holy spirit when making their claims. . .Confused people. . .

Yes, I understand your frustration with all these differences of opinions. As in any family, there are always people with different opinions. The key thing is that there are some things, which have eternal consequences and others don't. For example, the buidling where you worship with others is not eternally consequential. But someone who says because I am a Christian I can still go and fornicate will suffer eternal consequences for his actions.

See this:
2 Peter 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2 Peter 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

So, it doesn't matter you are, Pope or bench-warmer, if you try to twist it to your own pleasure, the person is setting himself up for the consequences. That is one of the reasons the Word of God has been described as a sharp two-edged sword. If you handle it well, you won't get hurt, but handle it wrongly to your own peril.

BraveGuy:

No bi beggin matta now, everythin dey for Scriptures.

I like the fact that you can cite instances, what about the explanation given by Paul in Galatians 4?

Even if Iran Christian adds his twist to it and Zulu land Christian contributes his own. True Bible interpretation is not to personal pleasure. It's not that one day it is red because I like red colour and another day it is blue because I favour blue for that season. Such a person is doing it to his own detriment.

The Bible is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.... 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Guy, sharrap.


Even you too have your own personal interpretation.

BraveGuy:
I almost missed this comment.
Undoubtedly, the authorship of the Bible, especially the current Bible that we have is one of the most hotly contested topics in Christendom, however, it comes only after it has been agreed or confirmed that, at least, there must be an Intelligent Designer behind the Universe. If there is, then there must be some sort of instruction (like a manual to a machinery) as to the Creation He has made. If that also is agreed, then we are faced with numerous religious texts that purport to be from this Almighty God, among which you have the Bible.
So what makes the Bible stand out?
How was it written?
Who actually wrote it?
Can it be trusted?
If we say it was divinely inspired what does that really mean?
How do we know that the writers were not just writing from the figment of their imaginations?
These are just a few things we can consider in tackling this topic.

BUT what are your answers?

Kay17:

BUT what are your answers?

That is a lot. Where do we begin?

Let me start from here - So what makes the Bible stand out?

There is the PROPHETIC Proof.
There are many prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled to the letter. Prophecies concerning the rise and fall of the Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire are all mentioned in the Book of Daniel, Chapter 2.

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

This is one of the things that makes the Bible to stand out.

BraveGuy:

That is a lot. Where do we begin?

Let me start from here - So what makes the Bible stand out?

There is the PROPHETIC Proof.
There are many prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled to the letter. Prophecies concerning the rise and fall of the Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire are all mentioned in the Book of Daniel, Chapter 2.

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

This is one of the things that makes the Bible to stand out.

The bold has never come to pass

TheBigUrban2:


The bold has never come to pass

LOL. Even Braveguy doesn't buy most of the shtick that he tries to sell here. Give him time, he will be overpowered by common sense.

TheBigUrban2:

The bold has never come to pass

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

Yes, it has. Check your historical records very well. Here is a Google search link
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1AVNC_enGB559GB559&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=destruction%20of%20jerusalem

IN PICTURES:
https://www.google.com/search?q=destruction+of+jerusalem&rlz=1C1AVNC_enGB559GB559&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=FRMYZREQ5xX6cM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRQBdfeFCf2NXB6wbBdwUFZt0ZjRoR8BGZ0vR36IGI76hGQeFCq%253B2024%253B1480%253Br3VlVANFGjrSXM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FTisha_B%27Av&source=iu&usg=__lxUQUI15VbJSkQUeOWmirr00n5A%3D&sa=X&ei=dXzNU4vZMKO57AaZ4YCIDQ&ved=0CJsBEP4dMAw&biw=1720&bih=824#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=FRMYZREQ5xX6cM%253A%3Br3VlVANFGjrSXM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Fb%252Fb7%252FFrancesco_Hayez_017.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FTisha_B'Av%3B2024%3B1480

Weah96:

LOL. Even Braveguy doesn't buy most of the shtick that he tries to sell here. Give him time, he will be overpowered by common sense.

Weah96, you don't know who you are dealing with. I guess you're trying to look at me with your own mirror. No, you've got it very wrong, bro. I am in involved in some brainwashed religion. I am in a strong relationship with the Creator. If you have had a few experiences as such as I have had, you won't even think along those lines.

You're not refuting what I posted except throw tantrums like a child. Why don't you just grow up and make some reasonable comments and if you agree either keep quiet or say so, be humble.

BraveGuy:

Weah96, you don't know who you are dealing with. I guess you're trying to look at me with your own mirror. No, you've got it very wrong, bro. I am in involved in some brainwashed religion. I am in a strong relationship with the Creator. If you have had a few experiences as such as I have had, you won't even think along those lines.

You're not refuting what I posted except throw tantrums like a child. Why don't you just grow up and make some reasonable comments and if you agree either keep quiet or say so, be humble.

The things you have said are not worth replying to.

You are as delusional as they (religious nutjobs) come.



You have a strong relationship with an imaginary character (God).


Well, answer some questions about this your God that you have a relationship with;

-what does he look like?
-what does he sound like? (what accent does he use)
-what does he like talking about?

TheBigUrban2:

The things you have said are not worth replying to.
You are as delusional as they (religious nutjobs) come.
You have a strong relationship with an imaginary character (God).
Well, answer some questions about this your God that you have a relationship with;

-what does he look like?
-what does he sound like? (what accent does he use)
-what does he like talking about?

You're such an angry man.
What happened to you?

Your problem is not what I write, because you are yet to refute ONE of my arguments so far, but you're always trying to desperately change topics when you feel cornered.

BraveGuy:

You're such an angry man.
What happened to you?

Your problem is not what I write, because you are yet to refute ONE of my arguments so far, but you're always trying to desperately change topics when you feel cornered.

Do I look angry?


Or are you projecting your frustrations on me?


All your arguments are bunk. You are joking if you thin I will waste my time using the bible to debate about facts....The bible contains so many errors and lien that it fails as a point oof reference for Logic

@Kay17 and any reasonable person, reply otherwise I am about to close this chapter.

Some people are simply arguing without reasoning. Due to the faceless Internet, people hide behind the Internet to exercise all kinds of insult due to their angry disposition.

BraveGuy:
@Kay17 and any reasonable person, reply otherwise I am about to close this chapter.

Some people are simply arguing without reasoning. Due to the faceless Internet, people hide behind the Internet to exercise all kinds of insult due to their angry disposition.

Close the chapter

TheBigUrban2:

Close the chapter

You're such a disruptive character and have no respect for orderliness nor reason; all you do is just post mindless gibberish. There are people who want to engage in genuine conversation, but because you have nothing intellectually meaningful to contribute coupled with a gall of bitterness within you, which you desire others to partake, you do your best to disrupt.

What a sad life!

I wonder why moderators allow such disruptful and disrespectful people like you on the forums. All you do is insult and disrupt.

None of the evidence you presented here has anything to do with proving that a conversation between mammals and an ethereal deity occurred.

BraveGuy:

You're such a disruptive character and have no respect for orderliness nor reason; all you do is just post mindless gibberish. There are people who want to engage in genuine conversation, but because you have nothing intellectually meaningful to contribute coupled with a gall of bitterness within you, which you desire others to partake, you do your best to disrupt.

What a sad life!

I wonder why moderators allow such disruptful and disrespectful people like you on the forums. All you do is insult and disrupt.

If they were to ban someone for comments, you would go.


Half of what you wrote up there is false, the other is just abuse.


Go and sleep


It is not my fault that your arguments were nonsense

BraveGuy:

Weah96, you don't know who you are dealing with. I guess you're trying to look at me with your own mirror. No, you've got it very wrong, bro. I am in involved in some brainwashed religion.

Freudian slip, eh? Keep deceiving yourself. Common sense is slapping you. LOL.

TheBigUrban2:
If they were to ban someone for comments, you would go.
Half of what you wrote up there is false, the other is just abuse.
Go and sleep
It is not my fault that your arguments were nonsense

Then put up a decent rebuttal instead these empty noises.
All I'm hearing is just the noise of an empty barrel. No substance!

cococandy: You're agnostic means you're open to conviction just like seun.
What kind of proof will convince you?

I agree too that religion is man made.

OMG! Female atheist? The first time in my life. Tell me it's a lie

BraveGuy:

That is a lot. Where do we begin?

Let me start from here - So what makes the Bible stand out?

There is the PROPHETIC Proof.
There are many prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled to the letter. Prophecies concerning the rise and fall of the Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire are all mentioned in the Book of Daniel, Chapter 2.

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

This is one of the things that makes the Bible to stand out.

The book of Daniel was written many years after the events if predicted happened. . .Many of its prophecies were lies and never happened. . .The gospel of Mathew was also written after AD 70 so its very easy to predict things after they have happened. . .You are just a joke. . .

Here are some unfulfilled prophecies Lies in the bible. . . .why should a book that contains so much lies and falsehood be considered the word of a perfect and all knowing deity?

1. According to Ex 3:8, the Israelites will live in a large land, flowing with milk and honey, and according to 2Sa 7:10, the biblegod said that he will provide a place for them and they will not be disturbed anymore, but as a matter of historical fact Israel (and vicinity) has been a relatively small and mostly barren land, and the Israelites have been continually harassed from all sides up till today.

2. Many verses prophesy that the throne of David will endure forever [/b]and that there will never be a time without a man upon that throne. But in point of historical fact, the Davidic line of kings ended with Zedekiah. 450 yrs. later, the Maccabeans had a brief reign. But for 2000 years, there has been no Davidic king.

3. According to Isa 14:23, Babylon will become a swapland, but that never happened. According to Jer 51:36, Babylon will become totally dry, but that never happened either. According to other verses, Babylon will[b] never be inhabited by people again and the biblegod said that he will completely cut of Babylon, her name and survivors, but in fact Babylon has been continually inhabited by people since that time. [Note 1Pe 5:13.] It is now part of Iraq.

4. According to Isa 17:1, Damascus will be destroyed, but in fact Damascus is one of the few ancient cities that has never been destroyed. [The fact that so many were destroyed makes prophecies of the future destruction of ancient cities rather unremarkable.] If Isaiah had predicted that Damascus would never be destroyed, then that would have been remarkable.

5. According to Isa 19:5, Eze 30:12, and Zec 10:11, the Nile River will dry up, and according to Eze 29:9-12, Egypt will become desolate for 40 years, with no man or animal passing through it and with all Egyptians dispersed, but as a matter of fact the Nile River has never dried up and in the whole history of Egypt no such calamitous events have ever occurred.

6. According to Isa 19:18, five Egyptian cities will speak the language of Canaan, but linguists and archaeologists assure us that no Egyptian cities have ever spoken the language of Canaan.

7. According to Isa 34:9-10, Edom (the land between the Dead Sea and Gulf of Aqaba) will become burning pitch forever: no one will ever pass through it again because It's fire will not be quenched night and day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation. But in truth that has never happened to Edom. People have passed through it for thousands of years up till today.

8. According to Isa 52:1, the uncircumcised and unclean will never enter Jerusalem again, but in fact such people have continually entered Jerusalem for thousands of years.

9. According to Jer 42:17, Jews who choose to live in Egypt will all die and leave no remnant. But history shows that Jews continued to live there for centuries, later establishing a cultural center at Alexandria.

10. Zep 3:13 prophesied that the remnant of Israel will not sin or lie or be afraid, but in truth they were never so moral nor so fearless.

11.According to Mt 12:40, Christ will be buried for three nights, but he died on a Friday and by Sunday the tomb was said to be empty. Between Friday and Sunday, there are just two nights, not three. The new testament writers have said that Jesus will be crucified, he will die and be resurrected after 3 days according to the scriptures, but up till today no such scripture has been provided by anybody. In fact that prophecy does not exists any where in the Hebrew bible.

11. Many verses prophesy that Christ's second coming will occur soon. Some of them specifically say that it will be within his listeners' lifetime, i.e., before that generation (there with Jesus) passes away or "before you finish going round the cities of Jerusalem I will return" . But in truth more than 19 centuries have elapsed since then and the event still has not occurred. Of all the examples of unfulfilled prophecies, this one strikes me as the one that is clearest and most powerful.

BraveGuy:

That is a lot. Where do we begin?

Let me start from here - So what makes the Bible stand out?

There is the PROPHETIC Proof.
There are many prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled to the letter. Prophecies concerning the rise and fall of the Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire are all mentioned in the Book of Daniel, Chapter 2.

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

This is one of the things that makes the Bible to stand out.

Sorry to drag you back, but stay within the issues.

1. The human authorship of the Bible and its implications.

2. The criteria for INSPIRATION by God, is laid out in the Bible and not in any external source. How valid would those criteria be?

I love this! Although my time is getting limited now, but I love this!
It's not like the useless ones that I read from you previously. However, like KAY17, can you remain within subject instead dashing into another topic before one is finished; I have noted that it is Muslims that debate this way. By the way, do you deny that you are a Muslim? (I need your answer).

Skimming through your points, I could see that you're cherry-picking verses and ignoring the context of them as well. Most of the verses you picked have a lot of spiritual connotations, if you isolate them from the verses around them, they lose their usefulness and you will struggle to understand them.

I know you will not be satisfied with some of my answers, but I wish I can give simplified solutions, sorry you will just get the direct truth.

Ok, let's go!

mazaje:
The book of Daniel was written many years after the events if predicted happened. . .Many of its prophecies were lies and never happened. . .The gospel of Mathew was also written after AD 70 so its very easy to predict things after they have happened. . .You are just a joke. . .

The Book of Daniel had had most of its prophecies fulfilled, some are being fulfilled as we speak and the last part (as in the last chapter is yet to be fulfilled, the fulfillment is in the LAST DAYS and we are in the moment of the last days now)

The different kingdoms I cited did all come into effect as at the time of the writing of that Book.

mazaje:
Here are some unfulfilled prophecies Lies in the bible. . . .why should a book that contains so much lies and falsehood be considered the word of a perfect and all knowing deity?

1. According to Ex 3:8, the Israelites will live in a large land, flowing with milk and honey, and according to 2Sa 7:10, the biblegod said that he will provide a place for them and they will not be disturbed anymore, but as a matter of historical fact Israel (and vicinity) has been a relatively small and mostly barren land, and the Israelites have been continually harassed from all sides up till today.[/quote]

Have you ever read Deuteronomy 28 before? Check the conditions stipulated there. And the current state of Israel? Are they worshipping/following God? Do you know where they call the "Gay Capital of the World?" - Tel Aviv! ..... Do you remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah? Yet, as God's judgement is there for all to see, His mercy is still preserving them because of His promises of Old.

mazaje:
2. Many verses prophesy that the throne of David will endure forever [/b]and that there will never be a time without a man upon that throne. But in point of historical fact, the Davidic line of kings ended with Zedekiah. 450 yrs. later, the Maccabeans had a brief reign. But for 2000 years, there has been no Davidic king.

Who was Jesus? Son of David, King of kings. He's alive and reigns over the Universe!

mazaje:
3. According to Isa 14:23, Babylon will become a swapland, but that never happened. According to Jer 51:36, Babylon will become totally dry, but that never happened either. According to other verses, Babylon will[b] never be inhabited by people again and the biblegod said that he will completely cut of Babylon, her name and survivors, but in fact Babylon has been continually inhabited by people since that time. [Note 1Pe 5:13.] It is now part of Iraq.

You must know that ALL prophecies relating to the LAST DAYS are spiritual. This is an END of DAYS prophecy. If you look at:
Revelation 14:8
Revelation 16:19
Revelation 17:5
Revelation 18:2
Revelation 18:10

So, you don't need to tear out your hair on this, it's going to happen! The storm is gathering already

mazaje:
4. According to Isa 17:1, Damascus will be destroyed, but in fact Damascus is one of the few ancient cities that has never been destroyed. [The fact that so many were destroyed makes prophecies of the future destruction of ancient cities rather unremarkable.] If Isaiah had predicted that Damascus would never be destroyed, then that would have been remarkable.

What is the current state of the City of Damascus right now? Tell me, if you would desire to live there as we speak?
https://www.google.com/search?q=damascus&rlz=1C1AVNC_enGB559GB559&espv=2&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=nx_OU6viBILG7AbjmoDgBg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1720&bih=824&dpr=1#q=damascus+2014&tbm=isch

Who could have thought this would happen some fifty, hundred or 1000 years ago? Open your eyes, the Bible prophecies are unfolding DAILY! No other book in history has this much power!

mazaje:
5. According to Isa 19:5, Eze 30:12, and Zec 10:11, the Nile River will dry up, and according to Eze 29:9-12, Egypt will become desolate for 40 years, with no man or animal passing through it and with all Egyptians dispersed, but as a matter of fact the Nile River has never dried up and in the whole history of Egypt no such calamitous events have ever occurred.

This is another END of Days prophecy. How do we know this?
Zechariah 14
Revelation 11:8

mazaje:
6. According to Isa 19:18, five Egyptian cities will speak the language of Canaan, but linguists and archaeologists assure us that no Egyptian cities have ever spoken the language of Canaan.

This also is a LAST DAYS' prophecies. The fulfillment began just after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

It has happened and it is STILL happening!

mazaje:
7. According to Isa 34:9-10, Edom (the land between the Dead Sea and Gulf of Aqaba) will become burning pitch forever: no one will ever pass through it again because It's fire will not be quenched night and day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation. But in truth that has never happened to Edom. People have passed through it for thousands of years up till today.

This is not just going to happen to Edom (the physical place), it will happen to all cities of the world as the world will be cleaned off of its wickedness. Edom here is allegorical to the sinful nature of Man. That portion in Zechariah 14, with specific reference to verse 19 clarifies this.

mazaje:
8. According to Isa 52:1, the uncircumcised and unclean will never enter Jerusalem again, but in fact such people have continually entered Jerusalem for thousands of years.

Again, this is one of the LAST DAYS' prophecy. In fact, almost all of Isaiah (and the prophets) are related to the last days. That is why they are called the PROPHETS, because they are prophecies related to the LAST DAYS. Most of the prophets could not even relate to what was being revealed to them at the time, because what they were seeing defied their common knowledge at the time. For example, Daniel.

Dan 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?"
Dan 12:9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

mazaje:
9. According to Jer 42:17, Jews who choose to live in Egypt will all die and leave no remnant. But history shows that Jews continued to live there for centuries, later establishing a cultural center at Alexandria.

Yes, this is a prophecy of the END TIME.
The Jews here represent believers (Romans 2:28) who choose to live in the way of the world.
Egypt is a representation of a sinful and repressive world. A life of slavery to sin.

mazaje:
10. Zep 3:13 prophesied that the remnant of Israel will not sin or lie or be afraid, but in truth they were never so moral nor so fearless.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Zep 3:8 "Therefore wait for me," declares the LORD, "for the day when I rise up to seize the prey. For my decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out upon them my indignation, all my burning anger; for in the fire of my jealousy all the earth shall be consumed.
Zep 3:9 "For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call upon the name of the LORD and serve him with one accord.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering.
Zep 3:11 "On that day you shall not be put to shame because of the deeds by which you have rebelled against me; for then I will remove from your midst your proudly exultant ones, and you shall no longer be haughty in my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 But I will leave in your midst a people humble and lowly. They shall seek refuge in the name of the LORD,
Zep 3:13 those who are left in Israel; they shall do no injustice and speak no lies, nor shall there be found in their mouth a deceitful tongue. For they shall graze and lie down, and none shall make them afraid."
Zep 3:14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Zep 3:15 The LORD has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the LORD, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil.
Zep 3:16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: "Fear not, O Zion; let not your hands grow weak.
Zep 3:17 The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.
Zep 3:18 I will gather those of you who mourn for the festival, so that you will no longer suffer reproach.
Zep 3:19 Behold, at that time I will deal with all your oppressors. And I will save the lame and gather the outcast, and I will change their shame into praise and renown in all the earth.
Zep 3:20 At that time I will bring you in, at the time when I gather you together; for I will make you renowned and praised among all the peoples of the earth, when I restore your fortunes before your eyes," says the LORD.

These last two (#11 & #12) are my favorites so far..... I am running late to prepare for an appointment, I don't want to rush them, so I will answer when I come back. This would several hours from now. But, I will answer them, they are the BEST of the lot!

mazaje:
11.According to Mt 12:40, Christ will be buried for three nights, but he died on a Friday and by Sunday the tomb was said to be empty. Between Friday and Sunday, there are just two nights, not three. The new testament writers have said that Jesus will be crucified, he will die and be resurrected after 3 days according to the scriptures, but up till today no such scripture has been provided by anybody. In fact that prophecy does not exists any where in the Hebrew bible.

mazaje:
11. Many verses prophesy that Christ's second coming will occur soon. Some of them specifically say that it will be within his listeners' lifetime, i.e., before that generation (there with Jesus) passes away or "before you finish going round the cities of Jerusalem I will return" . But in truth more than 19 centuries have elapsed since then and the event still has not occurred. Of all the examples of unfulfilled prophecies, this one strikes me as the one that is clearest and most powerful.

Kay17:

Sorry to drag you back, but stay within the issues.

1. The human authorship of the Bible and its implications.

2. The criteria for INSPIRATION by God, is laid out in the Bible and not in any external source. How valid would those criteria be?

Nothing to be sorry about, KAY17. I will come back to answer these, just that time is limited for me at the moment, unlike the last two weeks. Thanks for the patience.

This braveguy is a comedian. . .Where the bible VERY CLEARLY gets it wrong he says its spiritual or an allegory. The usual excuse they use to delude themselves and explain absurdity away . .Make things up as you go is the name of the game. . .There is no truth in any of the nonsense you wrote, you just danced around threw what ever it is you can throw, lie, delude yourself just so that you can keep holding unto mythical and fictitious belief of ancient Jews, Romans and Greeks, shebi the white man is your god?. . .Keep on keeping on. . .

mazaje: This braveguy is a comedian. . .Where the bible VERY CLEARLY gets it wrong he says its spiritual or an allegory. The usual excuse they use to delude themselves and explain absurdity away . .Make things up as you go is the name of the game. . .There is no truth in any of the nonsense you wrote, you just danced around threw what ever it is you can throw, lie, delude yourself just so that you can keep holding unto mythical and fictitious belief of ancient Jews, Romans and Greeks, shebi the white man is your god?. . .Keep on keeping on. . .

You've been asking loads and loads of questions and I have patiently answered you. I asked you a simple question and you ignored it. I will ask it again.

ARE YOU DENYING THAT YOU'RE A MUSLIM or NOT?
or should I ask it this way:
DO YOU DENY ALLAH IS YOUR GOD?

BraveGuy:

You've been asking loads and loads of questions and I have patiently answered you. I asked you a simple question and you ignored it. I will ask it again.

ARE YOU DENYING THAT YOU'RE A MUSLIM or NOT?
or should I ask it this way:
DO YOU DENY ALLAH IS YOUR GOD?

LOL!. . .Am an atheist. . .

Kay17:

Sorry to drag you back, but stay within the issues.

1. The human authorship of the Bible and its implications.

It is apparent from most Books of the Bible whose names are associated with which Book of the 66 Books of the Bible. For example, the first five Books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are called the Books of Moses. Why? Because Moses wrote them. So, it is very easy to ascribe authorship to Moses. Those were more of historical and instructional Books.

Then we have ones such as The Prophets (making prophecies). For example, Daniel. In there, he recorded of his personal spiritual encounters with angels and they shared information of things that would happen in the future with him. Some of those things he did not understand and when he tried to inquire, they told him not to bother because it had nothing to do with his generation, but that it was for the END of Days.

The same can be said of Paul the apostle in the New Testament. For example, we have the Epistle of Paul to the Romans or to the Ephesians, etc. Even in the case of a Book called Philemon, which was more or less a letter to one person, made it into the Compendium.

If we have someone like Moses, Daniel, Paul, etc., write these Books, then why do we take authorship from these people and ascribe it to God? The reasons cannot be removed from the purpose of God from the very beginning of Man's creation. God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

That is, God was after the creation that was to be in the same nature as Himself - holy and powerful to dominate a certain aspect of His work (Earth) and creative, just like Himself. But, Man fell and had to be redeemed. So, all the laws, instructions, prophecies, dreams, visions, that would culminate into Books were to make Man come to this realization. That if you fall, it's not the end, you can rise again.

The implication of human authorship as I have explained above is that what they were writing were simply inspired by God. How do we know know this? Take what Daniel wrote for example, 'I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?" He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.' (Daniel 12:8-9)

Now, if Daniel was the author, why would he write to describe things that he would not understand and yet be asking or declaring, "I heard, but I did not understand"? And when he did ask, he was asked to simply "go your way". This few verses explicitly shows that Daniel was not the author of the Book, he was simply a writer of what He was inspired to write.

That was why we read from Peter the apostle:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And we also read from Paul:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Secondly, as writers and not really authors of the Scriptures, can we say the Bible is without human errors? No, because we humans are prone to mistakes. Many times, when I am writing something, I jump words or even misapply punctuations. But that does not mean the fact of what I was trying to say is heretic, it was just that I made a writing mistake not one of essence. Transcription error is not the same as Inspirational error, neither the converse.

A glaring example of this is the FOUR GOSPEL accounts. Anyone reading through them will discover discrepancies here and there, but does that mean the essence is incorrect? Absolutely not. Here are four different people sharing a story from four different viewpoints. It is as if each were standing at the four corners of the world and relaying their stories. It is akin to CNN and BBC, you can expect them to be saying exactly the same thing or using the same camera, each will have their own variations.

Overall, most people see these things - names associated with Books or different accounts of the same story and declare if God is the author then there is no God or these are men's works and has nothing to do with the Almighty God. On the surface, that may be admissible, but with critical examination, such conclusions are without merit.

One major thing that I must add to these implications is that, for most of these Books, at the time of their writing, it wasn't as if the writers knew or foreknew that it will form part of a compendium that will become the bible. No, they had no idea that would happen. In their minds, as in the case of Paul, they thought they were writing to an individual or a small group of people. The same can be said of most great things in the world today. The founders, e.g Microsoft, Apple, Intel, etc did not start out with world dominance in mind. But, God was behind the curtain, orchestrating things all along.

Kay17:
2. The criteria for INSPIRATION by God, is laid out in the Bible and not in any external source. How valid would those criteria be?

One simple test.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

I am quite sure that you have heard the mystical experience called being "born again" before. This experience, to simplify it, Jesus described it to be similar to a woman giving birth to a baby. That is, a when a person accepts (believes and confesses) the saving grace that is in Jesus Christ, he is given the power of ability of sonship, which helps him to overcome the nature of sin that enslaves people.

Due to the fact that the Spirit of God "gives birth" to the individual, the person has a deposit of that Spirit in his heart. So, when he's reading a text or hearing a speech, if it is true, that Spirit in him will make feel at peace and in agreement that this is of God, and if it is man-made, a deep-seated feeling of rejection will overwhelm him from within as well. This is why it is often difficult to deceive a born-again believer in God. Because he has a "Witness within". Although, most times too, the believer ignore this Witness within and gets entangled in all sorts. This deep-seated feeling is also called perception.

Also, there are times when the humanity of individual (the five senses) will be too overwhelming that it he ignores the "Witness within". When this happens in a sincere manner, not out of disobedience, God usually sends other external means of communication to confirm the ignored "Witness within" as being true. A good example of this is in Acts 21:10-13.

I hope my brief answers would have thrown some light into your concerns or questions about the Bible.

BraveGuy:

1. . It is apparent from most Books of the Bible whose names are associated with which Book of the 66 Books of the Bible. For example, the first five Books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are called the Books of Moses. Why? Because Moses wrote them. So, it is very easy to ascribe authorship to Moses. Those were more of historical and instructional Books.

Then we have ones such as The Prophets (making prophecies). For example, Daniel. In there, he recorded of his personal spiritual encounters with angels and they shared information of things that would happen in the future with him. Some of those things he did not understand and when he tried to inquire, they told him not to bother because it had nothing to do with his generation, but that it was for the END of Days.

The same can be said of Paul the apostle in the New Testament. For example, we have the Epistle of Paul to the Romans or to the Ephesians, etc. Even in the case of a Book called Philemon, which was more or less a letter to one person, made it into the Compendium.

If we have someone like Moses, Daniel, Paul, etc., write these Books, then why do we take authorship from these people and ascribe it to God? The reasons cannot be removed from the purpose of God from the very beginning of Man's creation. God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

That is, God was after the creation that was to be in the same nature as Himself - holy and powerful to dominate a certain aspect of His work (Earth) and creative, just like Himself. But, Man fell and had to be redeemed. So, all the laws, instructions, prophecies, dreams, visions, that would culminate into Books were to make Man come to this realization. That if you fall, it's not the end, you can rise again.

The implication of human authorship as I have explained above is that what they were writing were simply inspired by God. How do we know know this? Take what Daniel wrote for example, 'I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?" He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.' (Daniel 12:8-9)

Now, if Daniel was the author, why would he write to describe things that he would not understand and yet be asking or declaring, "I heard, but I did not understand"? And when he did ask, he was asked to simply "go your way". This few verses explicitly shows that Daniel was not the author of the Book, he was simply a writer of what He was inspired to write.

That was why we read from Peter the apostle:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And we also read from Paul:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Secondly, as writers and not really authors of the Scriptures, can we say the Bible is without human errors? No, because we humans are prone to mistakes. Many times, when I am writing something, I jump words or even misapply punctuations. But that does not mean the fact of what I was trying to say is heretic, it was just that I made a writing mistake not one of essence. Transcription error is not the same as Inspirational error, neither the converse.

A glaring example of this is the FOUR GOSPEL accounts. Anyone reading through them will discover discrepancies here and there, but does that mean the essence is incorrect? Absolutely not. Here are four different people sharing a story from four different viewpoints. It is as if each were standing at the four corners of the world and relaying their stories. It is akin to CNN and BBC, you can expect them to be saying exactly the same thing or using the same camera, each will have their own variations.

Overall, most people see these things - names associated with Books or different accounts of the same story and declare if God is the author then there is no God or these are men's works and has nothing to do with the Almighty God. On the surface, that may be admissible, but with critical examination, such conclusions are without merit.

One major thing that I must add to these implications is that, for most of these Books, at the time of their writing, it wasn't as if the writers knew or foreknew that it will form part of a compendium that will become the bible. No, they had no idea that would happen. In their minds, as in the case of Paul, they thought they were writing to an individual or a small group of people. The same can be said of most great things in the world today. The founders, e.g Microsoft, Apple, Intel, etc did not start out with world dominance in mind. But, God was behind the curtain, orchestrating things all along.




2. . . One simple test.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

I am quite sure that you have heard the mystical experience called being "born again" before. This experience, to simplify it, Jesus described it to be similar to a woman giving birth to a baby. That is, a when a person accepts (believes and confesses) the saving grace that is in Jesus Christ, he is given the power of ability of sonship, which helps him to overcome the nature of sin that enslaves people.

Due to the fact that the Spirit of God "gives birth" to the individual, the person has a deposit of that Spirit in his heart. So, when he's reading a text or hearing a speech, if it is true, that Spirit in him will make feel at peace and in agreement that this is of God, and if it is man-made, a deep-seated feeling of rejection will overwhelm him from within as well. This is why it is often difficult to deceive a born-again believer in God. Because he has a "Witness within". Although, most times too, the believer ignore this Witness within and gets entangled in all sorts. This deep-seated feeling is also called perception.

Also, there are times when the humanity of individual (the five senses) will be too overwhelming that it he ignores the "Witness within". When this happens in a sincere manner, not out of disobedience, God usually sends other external means of communication to confirm the ignored "Witness within" as being true. A good example of this is in Acts 21:10-13.

I hope my brief answers would have thrown some light into your concerns or questions about the Bible.

1. I enjoy your childlike innocence. The way you wholehearted accept whatever is written in the Bible. For example, you without further investigation, accepted that the books of Moses must have been written by Moses despite being written in third person and recording events that occurred thousands of years before he was born.

Nonetheless each book clearly conveys the opinions of the writers not of God because God never said a word. God was quiet all through the Bible and neither did God himself confirm what the bible writers said was true.

2. . I'd assume your answer is no, because you referred to the Bible again. My view is the Bible is floating in midair with no foundation and without the trappings of divinity.