Fatherhood Of Jesus ! - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 10:36pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
nep2ra: Frosbel, Yes , I have been there a few times and acquired some good knowledge , however I am adamant that Jesus did exist but not in the way that Christianity likes to portray. 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 10:56pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
frosbel: Some more scripture to ponder ; According to you, Jesus never preexisted his earthly life. If Jesus never preexisted his earthly life and did have an earthly father like we do also, why then is he called the 'SON OF GOD' in the bible ? "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16). Are we not also the sons of God ? Answer please. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 11:14pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
Also explain why it is Jesus that can only redeem human (sons of God like him) ? Psalm 49:7-9: 6. those who trust in their wealth and boast of their great riches? 7. No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them — 8. the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough — 9. so that they should live on forever and not see decay. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 11:18pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
^^ Thanks for commenting but I think it is only fair that you answer my questions in relation to he article and we can take the rest from there. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by twosquare(m): 11:27pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
frosbel: ^^what i don't understand is this, putting recent threads and this thread by you together,what are you driving at or what is the answer(question) you want.....what is it you want(in your life) |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 11:31pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
twosquare: what i don't understand is this, putting recent threads and this thread by you together,what are you driving at or what is the answer(question) you want.....what is it you want(in your life) The truth . 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by jayriginal: 11:36pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
frosbel: Then take it on faith as davidylan does. 2 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by twosquare(m): 11:43pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
frosbel:you have it in your room....as it is being revealed to me about you....what i was told right now is that you need the Spirit of wisdom&revelation....pls,relax and pray for it. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 11:49pm On Jul 26, 2014 |
frosbel:what is christianity? Is it wrong for some one to say you're christ like? Or is jesus not the christ? |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 12:00am On Jul 27, 2014 |
frosbel:DO YOU TAKE JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SALVATION TO HEAVEN? If you answer this question, am alright with you. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 12:05am On Jul 27, 2014 |
malvisguy212: DO YOU TAKE JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SALVATION TO HEAVEN? I will answer your questions , but can you kindly address the article and points raised. Thank You. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 12:09am On Jul 27, 2014 |
How can we defend our faith when we cannot answer to the basic tenets of our profession  |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 12:33am On Jul 27, 2014 |
frosbel: It has often been said that Mary conceived without a Man and gave birth to Jesus, but I am beginning to doubt certain parts of this story for the following reasons :I will answer 5 and 6. With time I will answer the rest. 5.God don't work magic He IS A miracle working God, appert from giving berth, any other way will be magic, do you want God to just make jesus apper and start his ministry? He must be born by flash.the reason He was born by flash is because it is hard for man to keep the law, so He come by flash and show man that a flashy nature bein can keep the law, the first thin He did was to seat on the law, how? When jesus said, GIVE TO CEASER WHAT IS CEASER AND TO GOD WHAT IS GOD, THIS WORD MEAN THAT HE SEAT ON THE LAW, FULFILLED IT. 6.the jew don't believe in jesus, paul say the gospel is A stumblingblok to the jew, so you can expect anytin from them. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 12:46am On Jul 27, 2014 |
frosbel: ^^ Well, the questions i had asked you was not intended for a debate with you, but rather, to aid your probing and show what will be inconsistency on a selective acceptance of the bible. frosbel: It has often been said that Mary conceived without a Man and gave birth to Jesus, but I am beginning to doubt certain parts of this story for the following reasons : if Jesus had a human father he would be carrying the gen of Adam and that will mean he also inherited the sin of Adam and that renders him incapable of providing a ransom for us, cause he was to ransom a Perfect man Adam, Adam had no human father, hence, no inherited sin. A Jesus with a human father is not qualified. Since that will mean he inherited Adamic sin from his human father. frosbel: yes he did! Marry is from the seed of David and his Adoptive father Joseph is of the seed of David. Hence, his two genealogy in the bible tranced his Ancestry from both Ends > Mary and Joseph. frosbel: why is that ^ important ? Did Apostle paul decided on what to write or rather he was inspired to write and was sent to preach to gentile ? Was tracing of Ancestry what Jesus commanded him to do on the Road of Damascus ? Rather, it shows that his Virgin birth was not in doubt among the apostles. In the mouth of two or three witnesses to his virgin birth, (the gospels), a matter is exterblished the bible says. Hence, the matter was an exterblished fact to him(Paul). I dont think Apostel paul considered christ apostles to be liars. frosbel: the most important thing that christ came for was to pay the ransom and not birth, why then do you wish the Apostles to concentrate on his birth ? frosbel: one traced his birth from the Mother's side while the other traced his genealogy from the paternal side, linking both to Solomon/David, the son of David. To present an undeniable proof to the Jews that he is of the tribe of David. Those records and the registration of all Jews was usually a public diplayed Item in the Temple in Jerusalem befor the Temple was Destroyed in 70CE by the Romans that destroyed the Temple. That it was not contested then shows that what was presented was authentic, if you so wish to contest it 2000years after the temple and records have been destroyed, please do. The gospel only gave more insight into how Jesus, the Son of God actually did managed to come to earth, so that we can see the difference between Jesus and any other man who Ever lived. frosbel: I dont have any problem with God that created the Universe putting his son in the womb of a virgin to be born as a man. Do you think that the almighty God cannot be Able to archieve that ? If you dont agree that Jesus was free from inherited Sin of Adam, you are indirectly refusing his qualification to be able to pay the ransom. Are you not interested in his redemptive act ? frosbel: the Jews dont recongnised Jesus as the Messaiah also, do you think they are also right ? frosbel: i dont get your drift. frosbel: It is you that should answer my question above. It is we that now need your help. Peace. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 12:57am On Jul 27, 2014 |
truthislight:No, she was not. Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. Cf. Numbers 1:18 ; Ezra 2:59 . Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon ( II Samuel 7:14 ; I Chronicles 17:11-14 , 22:9-10 , 28:4-6 ). The third chapter of Luke is irrelevant to this discussion because it describes lineage of David's son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31 ) Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah. If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a Messianic progenitor. You don't even know your buy-bull. Mxm.  and his Adoptive father Joseph is of the seed of David. There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption; Also, Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn't have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30) Hence, his genealogy in the bible traced his Ancestry from both Ends > Mary and Joseph. Just proved you wrong 3 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 1:13am On Jul 27, 2014 |
Apatheist: No, she was not. Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. Cf. Numbers 1:18 ; Ezra 2:59 . You can tell yourself whatever you want. I presented what is recorded in the bible. Josep took Jesus as his son. You can go back then and tell the Jews that Jesus was not Joseph's son, that he was Adopted, that the Holy spirit Impregnated the mother when Joseph was there to attest as the father of Jesus. Maybe the Jews would have Belief you instead of Joseph. Critics that wish to pour water on Jesus linaege are boxing the wind. Sorry. The purpose of that linaege served its purpose 2000yrs ago, you are late. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 1:18am On Jul 27, 2014 |
truthislight:And I didn't back up my points with buy-bull verses? I told you. It doesn't matter, since Joseph is not from the lineage of David. You can go back then and tell the Jews that Fesus was not Joseph's son, that he was Adopted, that the Holy spirit Impregnated the mother when Joseph was there to attest as the father. Critics that wish to pour water on Jesus linaege are boxing the wind.I've shown you proof from your buy-bull. You haven't said anything tangible. The purpose of that linaege served its purpose 2000yrs ago, you are late.What exactly is the purpose of the lineage? 2 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 1:24am On Jul 27, 2014 |
The important Character for both Joseph and Mary is David. The two of them are Decendant of David. Go Find out. |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 1:30am On Jul 27, 2014 |
truthislight: The important Haracter for both Joseph and Mary is David.Can't you read? According to the Buy-bull, Joseph was not Jizz-us father, so Joseph's lineage is irrelevant. And the Jewish culture is matrilineal, so Mary's lineage isn't relevant. Get it now? |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by malvisguy212: 1:34am On Jul 27, 2014 |
Apatheist: And I didn't back up my points with buy-bull verses?this is the affer of christians and a brother, you are free to contribute, but please learn some manner, is this how they spell bible? |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 1:38am On Jul 27, 2014 |
malvisguy212: this is the affer of christians and a brother, you are free to contribute, but please learn some manner, is this how they spell bible?Straw man. You didn't address any of my points, but my spelling of your "holy book" PS, pronounce "bible" and "buy-bull" and tell me the difference.  2 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 1:49am On Jul 27, 2014 |
Apatheist: hi late comer ! It is rether unfortunate. I said the bible presented the both side of the linaege of the perant of Jesus. What is wrong with that ? I told you to go sort out your facts. Stop bein a nuisance. The both perant are from David, what you dont know is bigger than you. Take note, it was a public knowledge that the Jews call Jesus son of David. I dont really have time to banta with you now. 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Goshen360(m): 2:02am On Jul 27, 2014 |
Okay, first, to everyone calling out frosbel for asking or questioning somethings in the bible. You people should understand that, questioning things in the bible is one aspect of getting yourself rooted in the knowledge of truth, provided the motives are right. 2. The answer to the questions are somehow long, for me, if I will explain in detail with bible verses but I'ma go sleep first because I don work since morning na to come see frosbel set long exam for us here.  but before I go sleep, lemme do few of the questions and I might explain the rest later. frosbel: ^ Why do you have to doubt this? Haven't you read, God doing a miracle (occurrence that transcend natural laws) e.g, great armies coming out of a dry bone with the Ezekiel 37. The birth of Christ is the same, it is a sign, not a like us that is born by natural laws. Also, it is a replicate of the first Adam - so Christ was called the second or last Adam. How? Adam is the only natural man not born of a woman and also, Eve was the only woman not born like other women - A replicate of the church, born out of Christ. Are you following?  So, the birth of Christ should not be a doubt. This is a sign birth. New International Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 What is the sign that the Lord himself will give? It is that, The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. . Now, ask yourself how can a virgin be pregnant if is not a sign but naturally, a man will do the job with the virgin. Let no man like Obadiah777 deceive you that Joseph impregnated Mary. Listen to Mary herself and conversation between her and the Spirit, New American Standard Bible Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" King James Bible Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? Holman Christian Standard Bible Mary asked the angel, "How can this be, since I have not been intimate with a man?" International Standard Version Mary asked the angel, "How can this happen, since I have not had relations with a man?" So, the person said, man neva do the thing with her and Holy Spirit said she will be pregnant. Her thought is natural way of having children but God had a sign way of making a virgin conceive. I believe you know the rest of the reply and story, let us move on. 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 2:40am On Jul 27, 2014 |
truthislight: |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Goshen360(m): 2:50am On Jul 27, 2014 |
frosbel: ^ New Living Translation Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is called the Messiah. English Standard Version and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ. New American Standard Bible Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah. King James Bible And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Matthew 1:16 Here the genealogy says that "Jacob begot Joseph" but Luke 3:23 says, "Joseph, the son of Heli" Many people say or think just like you that it is contradictory. NO!!! It is complimentary. One is giving more light to the other so we can further understand what happened. Luke's record was "according to law" (a literal translation of "so it was thought" in Luke 3:23), indicating that Joseph was not actually (biological) the son of Heli but was reckoned his son according to the law. Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli, Mary's father. This is a law case according to Num. 27:1-8 and 36:1-12, in which a regulation was made by God that if any parents had only daughters as heirs, the inheritance would go to the daughters, who would then have to marry a man of their own tribe in order to keep their inheritance within that tribe. Even such a regulation in the Old Testament is related to the genealogy of Christ, showing that all Scripture is a record of Christ. Also, the scripture above - It does not say, "Joseph begot Jesus," which is similar to what is said of all the foregoing persons; it says, "Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus." Jesus was born of Mary, and not of Joseph, since it was prophesied that Christ would be the seed of the woman and would be born of a virgin (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14). Christ could not have been born of Joseph because Joseph was a man and a descendant of Jeconiah, none of whose descendants could inherit the throne of David (Jer. 22:28-30) which if that happens renders Romans 1:3 null & void. However, Mary was a virgin (one who had not had sex.ual intercourse with a man according to Luke 1:34 and a descendant of David (Luke 1:27, 31-32); as such, she was the right person of whom Christ should be born. The marriage of Joseph and Mary brought Joseph into relationship with Christ and united into one the two lines of Christ's genealogy for the bringing in of Christ. The entire geneology in Matthew's account and Luke's taken together under proper study shows that the generation of Jesus Christ begins from God and continues until it reaches Jesus. It proceeds from God to Adam, from Adam to Abraham, from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob, and on to David. After David it divides into two lines, the first running from Nathan to Mary and the second from Solomon to Joseph. Eventually, these two lines are brought together by the marriage of Mary and Joseph, to bring in Jesus Christ. (b) if God was his father, how could this have been fulfilled. ^ Again, it could be fulfilled from the followings: 1. Example of the Ezekiel dry bone - great armies arose from dry bones. 2. The Power of the Spirit of God - as in action in creation from nothing. New International Version The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 3. It is reported the "Son of God" from a per-knowledge of His resurrection. He (Christ) actually is the Son of God by the resurrection, not by birth. New International Version and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. New Living Translation and he was shown to be the Son of God when he was raised from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 1:4 It's like if I'm giving an account of an event to you, I already have a knowledge of such event even when I use some terms and definitions. At birth, he is called I\Emmanuel and\or Jesus (Luke 1:31, Matthew 1:21, 23) but he is the Son of God, according to power of the Spirit of Holiness at resurrection, not at birth. What may confuse you is "Fatherhood". Father also mean originator and some more. . . . to be continue. Going to give my head some sleep. 2 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by ayoku777(m): 7:29am On Jul 27, 2014 |
frosbel: Mary was also of the seed of David. If you study the Matthew and Luke genealogy, one traced the seed of David through Solomon and another traced it through Nathan. Then there was another lineage split from Zerubabel as well, and other splits that I'm sure I didn't notice, -all of which came out of David. God said the "seed of the woman" will bruise the serpents head; and also that the seed of David will sit on the throne of David . It means the seed of the woman and the seed of David are the same person. Mary is from the lineage of David. And then you're making a mistake about how God was His father if he had fleshy descendants. One, God did not just become His father when He was born, Jesus was the only begotten of the Father from eternity past. John 3v16 -For God so loved the world that He sent His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Jesus pre-existed His earthly birth and God was His father since that time, -before His earthly birth. Goshen also gave a brilliant piece and unique view on this issue. We truly know in part. frosbel: Well, that Paul didn't mention it doesn't invalidate the gospel claim to it -He didn't refute it either. Truth is found in the synchrony of the sum of the entire scriptures, not just in the epistles of Paul. And also I might even say Paul talked about the virgin birth. Gal 4v4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, MADE OF A WOMAN, made under the law." "Made of a woman" means both the seed and the egg that brought forth the Messiah were produced by the woman (who herself was a seed of David), through the power of the Spirit. frosbel: I think the the first reason I gave in question two above partly answers this -Truth is found in the synchrony of the sum of the scriptures, you read the whole scripture to get the whole picture. The apostles didn't refute the claim either. They didn't all focus on the same things; Peter didn't preach the gifts of the spirit or the communion like Paul. No single servant of God can preach the entire counsel of God. Then they problably focused more on WHY He came in their epistles, than HOW He came. They focused on "Christ and Him crucified" frosbel: The lineage of David to Mary and Joseph had splits in between, it wasn't just a long single line. It split at David into Nathan and Solomon, it split at Zerubabel into Rhesa and Abiud, and other splits too. And Mark and Matthew traced it down differently. It wasn't a long straight line. frosbel: What is so abominable or far-fetched about the fact that God, through the power of His Spirit, gave Mary the supernatural ability to produce both seed and the egg that brought forth the Messiah Get your mind out of the gutter! Its abominable to you because you're thinking S.EXUAL INTERCOURSE instead of SUPERNATURAL INTERVENTION frosbel: Jewish articles? Seriously? The virgin birth is laughable because the jews think its laughable? Hope you know the jews also don't believe Jesus rose from the dead? The believe His disciples came by night and stole His body and claimed He is risen. "Should they not be the ones to know more about this?" You still think so? Or you believe that? frosbel: Nawa o. Must every epistle mention something for it to be true? Every wrote as they were moved by the Spirit of God. They wrote what they were inspired to write. There were things Paul wrote that are nowhere to be found in the epistles of Peter, like the nine gifts of the Spirit, the five-fold offices etc. There also things John wrote in his revelation that are not in other apostles' epistles. frosbel: Your cry for help touches my heart, coz I've been right where you are. Let me honestly say this, that no one can truly or fully answer the REAL questions of your heart, whether its on Nairaland or anywhere -ONLY the Holy Spirit. Its time for you to develop a radical closet intimacy with Him. Seek Him, He will reveal himself to you. Your questions are borne out a spiritual drought and famine of encounter with His glory. I believe you will come out of this experience stronger with deeepr intimacy with Christ in Jesus name. 5 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by wordcat(m): 8:07am On Jul 27, 2014 |
Apatheist: He's a doubting theist or rather a pantheist 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Busybody2(f): 9:35am On Jul 27, 2014 |
ayoku777: God bless you for touching on Frosbel's genuine raw heartfelt plea... 2 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 10:25am On Jul 27, 2014 |
@Goshen I hope you are aware that Jesus was refered to as the "son of God" even befro his death ? See: "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16). "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." (John 6:69). 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by truthislight: 10:33am On Jul 27, 2014 |
Goshen360: Jesus is called the son of God also befor his death: "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16). 1 Like |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by ayoku777(m): 11:01am On Jul 27, 2014 |
truthislight:True that. Also at His baptism at Jordan Matthew 3v17 -And lo a voice from heaven saying, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased. Then at His transfiguration as well Matthew 17v5 -.....THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him. I believe the ONLY begotten Son of God, became the Son of man; and died and rose to become the FIRST begotten Son of God. 2 Likes |
| Re: Fatherhood Of Jesus ! by Nobody: 11:22am On Jul 27, 2014 |
I will respond to all your feedback and thank you very much. But before I do, can you tell me who contributed the Y Chromosome which determines that a child is Male ? Mary brought X Who brought Y XY - Male. Thanks. 3 Likes |
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